2009.05.09 07:00 - no head

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    Lia Rikugun: hello mickerod
    Mickorod Renard: hi Lia
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,its quiet today
    Lia Rikugun: great you are joining me
    Mickorod Renard: its nice to find you here
    Lia Rikugun: :)


    the book: "on having no head"

    Lia Rikugun: i read a little bit in a book today
    Mickorod Renard: you must excuse me in slow replies..i am eating my lunch
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Lia Rikugun: which is called
    Lia Rikugun: on having no head
    Mickorod Renard: ahhh,,I have herd of that
    Lia Rikugun: i am eating ice cream ;)
    Mickorod Renard: lovely,,i am an ice cream fiend
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Mickorod Renard: I have been looking out for that book,,as well as one by Stm,,WoK
    Lia Rikugun: space time knowledge?
    Lia Rikugun: which one?
    Mickorod Renard: I think so
    Mickorod Renard: not sure
    Mickorod Renard: whats the headless one like?
    Lia Rikugun: it was interesting and funny
    Lia Rikugun: the writer
    Lia Rikugun: starts explaining how where you think oyu have your head
    Lia Rikugun: there is just an empty space
    Lia Rikugun: emptiness
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Lia Rikugun: and even if you go and try reaching it with your hands
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Lia Rikugun: suddenly even your hands are gone
    Lia Rikugun: absorbed by it
    Lia Rikugun: :D
    Mickorod Renard: cool
    Lia Rikugun: i mean i need to reread i think
    Lia Rikugun: but i like the idea
    Mickorod Renard: although i have dficulty folloing that at the mom
    Lia Rikugun: even if you look in the mirror
    Lia Rikugun: you should not think that is you
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Mickorod Renard: mmmmmmmmm?
    Lia Rikugun: i know what you mean
    Mickorod Renard: very deep
    Lia Rikugun: i was reading one sentence and thinking abouti t for 5 minutes
    Lia Rikugun: hello eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lia, Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,as in many spiritual books,,they dont actually use words like other books to reveal the meaning
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I think they are like a medium for self enlightenment
    Lia Rikugun: a sign giving you the direction
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Lia Rikugun: this is what he says in the book as well
    Lia Rikugun: reading the menu in a restaurant is not like eating the dish
    Lia Rikugun: ;)
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,thats a good way of saying it
    Mickorod Renard: you say it is small,,the book,,is that very small?
    Lia Rikugun: it has 80 pages
    Mickorod Renard: like a lil pocket book?
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Lia Rikugun: but it took me so much time to read the first pages
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: until i thought i could maybe understand
    Mickorod Renard: trying to get into the vocabulary etc?
    Lia Rikugun: not forcly the vocabulary
    Eliza Madrigal: Excuse me, which book please? :)
    Lia Rikugun: also the ideas behind what is said
    Lia Rikugun: "on having no head" sorry eliza
    Lia Rikugun: did you hear of that?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thank you :) Just more and more interested
    Lia Rikugun: from d.e. harding
    Eliza Madrigal: Now I have :)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Mickorod Renard: its been mentioned here before
    Lia Rikugun: pema gave it to me
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, please don't let me interrupt :)
    Lia Rikugun: nono you are not
    Mickorod Renard: well,we were just discussing its contents cos i have not read it
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, it sounds interesting.. and dense if you are working through it slowly
    Lia Rikugun: it talks about where you think you have your head there is emptiness which fits everything
    Lia Rikugun: i read only 6 pages
    Lia Rikugun: so maybe next week we talk about it
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes please
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Great
    Mickorod Renard: maybe I cn get one before next week
    Lia Rikugun: oh no, now i have some homework
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah


    what are the scribe tasks?

    Mickorod Renard: are either of you scribes?
    Lia Rikugun: no
    Eliza Madrigal: I just started... offered to fill in for Solo
    Lia Rikugun: just guardian
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,its just that Pema had asked me to try it
    Eliza Madrigal: ack..can't be here next weekend.. but I look forward to reading the log
    Mickorod Renard: I have put it off because I feel both rushed and not confident
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick, it seems difficult to stay on time for, so it might be helpful for more to do it... not sure. Maybe you and I might switch off... me this month in Solo's slot and you next?
    Mickorod Renard: well,that is an oportunity for me to get into it slowly
    Eliza Madrigal: it would be, and for me too! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: Some are so artistic in their weaving... is lovely
    Mickorod Renard: what exactly do u do as scribe?
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm trying not to put pressure on myself to be
    Eliza Madrigal: You take a few days' logs and pull out highlights...
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: There are many ways to do it ...everyone is different :)
    Mickorod Renard: I havnt really looked at many,i checked out Feonzes and it didnt look too bad for me to do similar
    Mickorod Renard: Fefs
    Eliza Madrigal: yes.. if you read five in a row you get a real sense of variety
    Eliza Madrigal: and approach
    Mickorod Renard: I must take time to do so
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: and what about the risk of putting your own personal slant on things?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that's part of it. We see things differently...
    Eliza Madrigal: Plus, the logs are so different session to session...
    Eliza Madrigal: that it isn't easy to do be overly slanted :)
    Mickorod Renard: have you submitted one yet?
    Eliza Madrigal: No...worked on one and had the dates wrong!! :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Lia Rikugun: hehe i read the email
    Eliza Madrigal: I know!! Ack
    Eliza Madrigal: BUT I asked myeslf "Well, did you enjoy it?"
    Eliza Madrigal: And answered, "yes!" So... was time well invested :)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,thats the most important
    Eliza Madrigal: It IS really nice to read a whole block like that...
    Eliza Madrigal: I often read one here or there...or parts.. but when scribing you are reading every line
    Mickorod Renard: and is Solo's session on a particular topic?
    Eliza Madrigal: not at all.. specific dates. The wiki, I learned, is accurate
    Mickorod Renard: so it sounds like my session,,just open ech week
    Mickorod Renard: excuse my spelling,,my keyboard is playing up
    Mickorod Renard: missing i and a
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes just an wider net than one session
    Mickorod Renard: unless I press hard
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh no


    the idea of emptiness, detach from myself, headless; too easy to get detached, dig back in

    Eliza Madrigal: Lia, are you interested in the idea of 'emptiness' in particular?
    Eliza Madrigal: (remembering why I turned the typing animation off... too much editing at my end) heh
    Lia Rikugun: hm not in particular
    Lia Rikugun: but i tried to detach from myself a little
    Lia Rikugun: and thats why now i started reading the book
    Mickorod Renard: I can actually conjure up the headless feeling , mostly when I want
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I come from the other direction most of the time... hae to remind myself to stay attached
    Lia Rikugun: so how does that feel eliza?
    Lia Rikugun: and mick is this only imagination?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Mick, please say more about that
    Mickorod Renard: well that is a line of thought I often entertain
    Mickorod Renard: how much is down to imagination
    Lia Rikugun: :) thats true
    Eliza Madrigal: For me, emtiness is tangible.... more so than imagination... there is no sort of... 'umph' to imagination... hahah
    Mickorod Renard: its hard to dismiss the benefits of feeling,,without head though
    Eliza Madrigal: I always hesitate to try to describe... but yes I agree Mick
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I am too open with my descriptions,,but I would guess many people have diferent takes on it
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: for me , when i believe I alow myself the oportunity to feel that way,,i feel less suffocated,,by mind noise,,and more open to the environment
    Eliza Madrigal: connected?
    Lia Rikugun: this sounds great
    Mickorod Renard: a bit of both,,connected to the universe,,but less so to the junk that dominates everyday life
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I understand that... the reason I often go to the word tangible...
    Eliza Madrigal: is that emptiness seems 'alive' and one is hooked in to what is essential...
    Eliza Madrigal: rather than distant and empty as in 'blank'...
    Lia Rikugun: ah maybe now i can better understand
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I can emphasize with you there
    Eliza Madrigal: It is easy for me to detach in a not great way...so my constant reminder is to "dig in"... really experience everything but from that...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm...
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe empty place, am not sure if that is the word to use. :)
    Mickorod Renard: well I too have mused over fears of becoing an escapee from normal life
    Mickorod Renard: and whether that is delusional
    Mickorod Renard: but on the other hand
    Mickorod Renard: I look at the options
    Mickorod Renard: and I clearly do not want to pass my life by.or bye,,in a way that I have just been mechanical each day in thought and action
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick, Yes!
    Lia Rikugun: (soorry i will have to go)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd rather err on the other side too :) Besides.... it does seem to come full circle....
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks Lia, nice to see you :)
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,bye Lia,,thanks for having me
    Lia Rikugun: nice to see you too
    Lia Rikugun: take care and see you soon!


    Eliza Madrigal: I can tell a difference now, much of the time, between when I am detaching in an escapist sense
    Mickorod Renard: thats cool
    Eliza Madrigal: What Stim was saying on Thursday, to you I think, was greatly comforting...
    Eliza Madrigal: that there isn't one student who hasn't asked questions about disconnection from others
    Mickorod Renard: yes it was,,i am glad he said that
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: although I have been in those thoughts before
    Mickorod Renard: and have found comfort within the discomfort
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm.. you mean when going through daily life with others, you are able to feel 'fine' about the gap?
    Eliza Madrigal: or what can seem a gap sometimes?
    Mickorod Renard: well, yes..but also I had to face that question of being feeling seperate to those who I once belonged to
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
    Mickorod Renard: and seeing the diference in myself from them,,and coming to terms with it
    Eliza Madrigal nods. This is a very important issue for me also
    Mickorod Renard: I had also experienced euphoria in believing I was special,,and trying to get a balance
    Eliza Madrigal: Balance... does seem to be the key
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I sat with a friend at lunch, as she agonized over her 'busy mind' ... but she didn't want to hear me talk about meditation at all. I just ended up pounding my head on the table... which she thought was hilarious.
    Eliza Madrigal: We had a ball
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Eliza Madrigal: She has to accept that I like this stuff... I have to accept she thinks I'm a loony bird
    Mickorod Renard: it is as if we find another language,,that only those in the know can understand
    Eliza Madrigal: It certainly is that way
    Eliza Madrigal: An ever changing language...
    Eliza Madrigal: and never changing
    Mickorod Renard: I think this is the same in any spiritual ,,,'club' in that you cannot just walk in and learn it,,you have to be ready,,and the mind just then is receptive
    Eliza Madrigal: yes.. a capacity.
    Eliza Madrigal: For years I posted in my house "Not by age but by capacity is wisdom acquired"
    Mickorod Renard: that is so lovely,,capacity
    Eliza Madrigal: I wanted my children to see it every day
    Mickorod Renard: coooool
    Eliza Madrigal: And I wanted to remind myself
    Eliza Madrigal: that this is a particular sort of learning
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,so lovely
    Eliza Madrigal: Not something you 'grasp and keep'
    Mickorod Renard: I even came across a young lady in a Christian bookshop once,,in London,,and was took aback by how she was aware,she was only about 18
    Eliza Madrigal: You had a conversation with her?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,only a brief minute or two
    Mickorod Renard: but I have not seen that in people old enough to be her grandparent
    Eliza Madrigal: You 'recognized' her, in a way
    Mickorod Renard: sort of
    Eliza Madrigal: Your capacity met hers :)
    Mickorod Renard: guess so
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice talking with you Mick. It is time for me to wake the kids... past 11 here! :)
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,i must go now too
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou its been fun
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Bye for now. :) yes

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