2009.05.14 19:00 - Synchronicity and Connectedness

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Sylectra Darwin, but she was not able to attend the meeting and the log was claimed by the Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: looks like a slow start this evening
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmmmmmm
    Pila Mulligan: are you the designated Guardian for this session
    Pila Mulligan: ?
    Eos Amaterasu: No, it's Sylectra
    Pila Mulligan: Guardian on Call is not actually such an excellent title
    Pila Mulligan: I like Designated Onsite Guardian better
    Eos Amaterasu: Should one of us claim the log?
    Eos Amaterasu: We were just talking about that, Listener Master :-)
    Pila Mulligan: well, let's see if Sylectra comes, or what happens -- or go ahead if you wish :)
    Pila Mulligan: Designated Onsite Guardian ... DoG
    Eos Amaterasu: D.O.G.
    Eos Amaterasu: god dog, wow mom!

    Jinx and Synchronicity

    Pila Mulligan: did you used to say 'jinx' when you were a kid and two people said the same thig simultaneosly?
    Eos Amaterasu: Actually, no
    Pila Mulligan: radar
    Pila Mulligan: a joke was that confuse the enemy in WWII the invention called radar was spelled backwards
    Pila Mulligan: I guess jinx was a 50's american south kind of thing
    Eos Amaterasu: probably related to djinn, or djini
    Pila Mulligan: as in rub the bottle
    Eos Amaterasu: But the opposite view is that of "auspicious coincidence"
    Pila Mulligan: simulatanaety
    Eos Amaterasu: synchronicity
    Pila Mulligan: did you read Jung's book on sychronicity?
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, long time ago
    Pila Mulligan: he laid out his thoughts quite well
    Eos Amaterasu: I should probably revisit that
    Pila Mulligan: my recollection is that he emphasized the idea of what makes something signifcant
    Pila Mulligan: in rational, logical thought causation is what gives significance
    Pila Mulligan: while synchronicity is just another method of approaching significance
    Eos Amaterasu: Not outside of cause and effect, but significance arises with some sense of simulataneity, probably asynchronous simulataneity, and not direct causality
    Eos Amaterasu: Like the significance of ourselves as identifiable
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, maybe I'll claim this....
    Pila Mulligan: I think he or someone described synchronicty as an acausal connecting principle
    Pila Mulligan: ok, please do
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, that was the name of the book :) -- 'Synchronicity — An Acausal Connecting Principle'
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
    Pila Mulligan: he also refers to it in the preface he wrote for one of Richard Wilhelm's translations of Chinese classics
    Eos Amaterasu: Did he relate it to his notion of "self"?
    Pila Mulligan: not that I recall
    Eos Amaterasu: the archetype of the self
    Pila Mulligan: he was identifying it as an essential element of the premise of the I Ching
    Pila Mulligan: the same would apply for astrology for that matter
    Pila Mulligan: his later works were on personality archtypes
    Pila Mulligan: I believe
    Pila Mulligan: the illogical or non-scientific connectedness of things was the first point I recall for synchronicity
    Eos Amaterasu: Sometimes I feel that in playing as being we are playing with synchronicity of our and the phenomenal world arising
    Pila Mulligan: illogical only in the causal sense
    Pila Mulligan: yes, synchronicity undoubtedly plays a role in those ideas
    Pila Mulligan: just as balance is an essential result, so it natural timing, and those two elements seem to enhance the appearance of synchronicity
    Pila Mulligan: so is*
    Eos Amaterasu: timing, yes....
    Pila Mulligan: ridign the wave :)
    Pila Mulligan: riding *
    Eos Amaterasu: leadership in a senses is commanding coincidence *
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so is magic :)
    Eos Amaterasu: but also you/the leader identifies with the natural forces of the world
    Eos Amaterasu: with the wave
    Eos Amaterasu: is coming from that
    Eos Amaterasu: from greater "purpose"

    Playing as Being Social

    Eos Amaterasu: which raises a question as to what is the social dimension of Playing as Being :-)
    Pila Mulligan: do you mean within SL?
    Eos Amaterasu: Not just
    Pila Mulligan: so far there seems to be not much social dimension beyond SL
    Eos Amaterasu: It actually does have a social dimension here, among we players
    Pila Mulligan: for this group at least
    Pila Mulligan: yes, here in SL it does
    Eos Amaterasu: altho there is some RL overlap, isn't there, for example in upcoming retreat
    Pila Mulligan: yes, there it iwll take on a social dmension for sure
    Eos Amaterasu: Playing as Being is a kind of personal practice, but it can, or could, have societal dimensions
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it could
    Eos Amaterasu: Playing as Being me, Playing as Being us :-)
    Pila Mulligan: for example, it could be theraputic, such as in the case of your neighborhood's recovery from the fire
    Pila Mulligan: if you organized sessions once a week for the neighbors to Play as being
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, shared movement from seeming having, solidity, to not having, losing it, but maybe never having had it
    Eos Amaterasu: Some of the meditative traditions are clearly related
    Pila Mulligan: in any event it would be a nice inlet for socializing and maybe an outlet for some people's grief
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, to touch it, not run away from it, and then in sensing that touch to feel its openness
    Eos Amaterasu: Start with neighborhoods
    Pila Mulligan: it would be an interesting expereiment at least
    Pila Mulligan: can't see how it would do harm, and it may help
    Pila Mulligan: help people restore their sense of a home, a secure personal nest
    Eos Amaterasu: being held in community
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and to better appreciate the inevitability of impermanence if they want to go that far


    Is Playing as Being religious?

    Pila Mulligan: not to burden the idea with religion
    Eos Amaterasu: ah, that's the challenge of our times, I think!
    Pila Mulligan: isn't it
    Pila Mulligan: religion has pretty well muddied just about al the waters of philosophy
    Pila Mulligan: meaning primarily that by associating a philosophical idea with a group you invite conflict
    Pila Mulligan: the ownership aspect
    Eos Amaterasu: It's hard to avoid, our very language being so subject-having-object oriented, or subject having identity
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Eos Amaterasu: but it's the essence of genuine practice, I think, to work with that "ego" emergence
    Pila Mulligan: but can't you just see a hard-headed Christian rejecting Compassion because it is assoicated with Buddhism :)
    Pila Mulligan: or vice versa, a funadmentalist Buddhist rejecting Love as too Christian
    Eos Amaterasu: Caritas is very Xtian
    Eos Amaterasu: I think, or hope, that people who actually have depth, or real, practice of whatever their tradition is can meet each other
    Eos Amaterasu: in "no man's land" :-)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, they do already, and it i sinteresting to read their transcripts
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    Pila Mulligan: Buddhist have formally met with Christians at the Abby of Gesthemene
    Pila Mulligan: Tibetan Buddhists were meeting with Naitve Americans for a while in the 70's and publishing reports
    Pila Mulligan: sharing notes so to speak
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, yes. My wife actually put together and edited a book called "Speaking of Silence", about Buddhist- Christian dialogs at Naropa University
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: it is interesting stuff to read
    Eos Amaterasu: There's a letting go quality to playing as being
    Eos Amaterasu: And then there's sharing that :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes that can feel like synchronicity :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: During the height of the Beatles late sixties era there was such a feeling
    Eos Amaterasu: Perhaps often illusory
    Eos Amaterasu: but also as real as it gets
    Pila Mulligan: or as it got, before the antithesis set in :)
    Pila Mulligan: maybe more later :)
    Eos Amaterasu: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: I think new edges attract that kind of synchronicity, which is not due to the solidity of what you can find there
    Eos Amaterasu: (it's not really at Haight and Ashbury)
    Pila Mulligan: well, it may have been at Haight and Ashbury once upon a time, but I appreciate your comment on new edges :)
    Eos Amaterasu: If you come looking for it there, it's not there
    Eos Amaterasu: Wu wei
    Pila Mulligan: an example:) -- Geo Netizen mentioned or posted some links once about sessions involving Buddhist and Chritsina monks -- I read it but and found it interesting, but now cannot find it
    Eos Amaterasu: Thomas Merton and Chogyam Trungpa grokked each other
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: he was from the same place, as you probably know -- Gesthemani, where they had the sessions\
    Eos Amaterasu: Do you consider Playing as Being to be a religious practice, or one involving the sacred?
    Pila Mulligan: it could be, depending on the person
    Pila Mulligan: a religious person doing these things could have a relgiious or sacred insight
    Pila Mulligan: a more secular person may have an epiphany
    Pila Mulligan: same result, different words
    Eos Amaterasu: epi-phainesthai
    Pila Mulligan: here's something about what I was hoping to find: http://monasticdialog.com/conference.php?id=96
    Eos Amaterasu: appearance appearing as the beyond
    Eos Amaterasu: not beyond elsewhere
    Eos Amaterasu: "cathedrals of empty luminosity"
    Pila Mulligan: personally, with due apology to Pema, I think of PaB as more of a yoga practice than a meditation
    Pila Mulligan: but the result is available just the same
    Pila Mulligan: and lots of religions are embracing secular yoga these days
    Pila Mulligan: so the 9 second pause as an assana gives rise to experiences that can lead people further both by discussion and continuing practice
    Pila Mulligan: asana*
    Pila Mulligan: 'a position intended primarily to restore and maintain a practitioner's well-being'
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asanas
    Eos Amaterasu: My own journey was through phenomenology (& the epoché) to being
    Pila Mulligan: yes, very similar from what I've read (and I've not read much about phenomenology)
    Eos Amaterasu: to meditation, as in buddhist mindfulness/awareness & recognition practice
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
    Eos Amaterasu: PIla, I must take my leave - it was a pleasure talking with you
    Pila Mulligan: yes, a nice hour Eos, as always
    Paradise Tennant: hello pila .. good by eos :))
    Pila Mulligan: see youo next time
    Eos Amaterasu: Good night!

    Eos leaves, Pila and Paradise remain, and discuss connectedness

    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: this is the tale end again :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Oh, sorry to miss you!
    Pila Mulligan: yes, this session starts at 7:00 SLT
    Paradise Tennant: nods I know .. long day here ..
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I haven't clicked the session closed yet, so you two could keep going
    Paradise Tennant: ah well
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Paradise Tennant: kk what was the topic
    Pila Mulligan: well, we began with synchronicity
    Pila Mulligan: then touched on possible social aspects of Play as Being
    Paradise Tennant: good choice
    Pila Mulligan: then dialogues between religions
    Pila Mulligan: and finally eiphany
    Paradise Tennant: did you ever read there are not accidents one sec i have it on my book shelf
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Pila Mulligan: as a topic, as opposed to an experience :)
    Paradise Tennant: wide ranging topics
    Pila Mulligan: any ideas on your mind this evening, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: how about connectedness ..
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: ok, connectedness
    Paradise Tennant: well if we go to the minute .. on the atomic level we are kind of one thing
    Paradise Tennant: many traditions believe the self is a delusion ..
    Pila Mulligan: yes, a neighbor was emphasizing how fundamental and common nano-energy is
    Paradise Tennant: reading .. carlos castaneda . book a separate reality right now .. sees us as a connected kind of web
    Pila Mulligan: I made up that term
    Paradise Tennant: good term!
    Pila Mulligan: nanon as in owest level
    Pila Mulligan: lowest
    Pila Mulligan: some Buddhists say we are inter-connected with all things, Taoists have nature as the common ground, but not many Western traditions seem to share these ideas
    Pila Mulligan: beyond the sceintific theory
    Paradise Tennant: yes but they have been around longer than most western concepts :)
    Pila Mulligan: and observing more
    Pila Mulligan: maybe
    Paradise Tennant: our loss
    Pila Mulligan: well, now, however, let's give credit where it is due -- Jung wrote of a collective unconscious
    Pila Mulligan: this is close
    Paradise Tennant: yes kind of a primal memroy
    Paradise Tennant: memory
    Pila Mulligan: and even a continuing connectedness
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: Threedee -- a neurologist here frome time to time -- uses the term pre-conscious
    Pila Mulligan: I like that idea
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: we have a deeper sense that feeds us awareness
    Paradise Tennant: a good concept
    Paradise Tennant: well just have to believe we .. are limited by our sensory perceptions in a very big way ..
    Pila Mulligan: apologies to Threedee if I have mistated his professsion or misused his term :)
    Paradise Tennant: so much information is floating around us that we cannot process
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: we select what we sense
    Pila Mulligan: hence extrasensory is what was not selected :)
    Paradise Tennant: i often wonder how much more my dog knows than say i do !
    Pila Mulligan: quite a bit I suspect -- dogs have excellent senses
    Pila Mulligan: that's for all dogs and all people
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: earlier, chatting with Eos, I got a wiki defintion of asana (as in yoga) as 'a position intended primarily to restore and maintain a practitioner's well-being'
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: that idea is applicable to anything that has the same result of restoring and maintaining well-being


    stevenaia joins in 

    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: and being aware of connectedness is an important part of it, I'd say
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: good, haveing a lovely week
    stevenaia Michinaga: how was your evening?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise raised the idea of conectedness
    Pila Mulligan: as a topic
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: connectedness in what sence
    Paradise Tennant: a view of reality
    Pila Mulligan: "reading .. carlos castaneda . book a separate reality right now .. sees us as a connected kind of web"
    Pila Mulligan: I actually missed that comment earlier Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: so this is a good time to pick it up
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, it's been a while sice I read that
    Pila Mulligan: those are an interesting series of books
    Paradise Tennant: good book .. sort of half way through it
    Pila Mulligan: very educational
    Pila Mulligan: even if they may be fictional
    Pila Mulligan: not that they may not also be real
    Paradise Tennant: yes ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, pass the cactus pls
    Paradise Tennant: -hard sometimes to bridge .. very different cultures ..now inhale deeply
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Pila Mulligan: having expereimented with some psychotrpoic stuff in my youth ....
    Pila Mulligan: that was also when I read his books ...
    Pila Mulligan: it was nice contextually
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: ti would be ..
    Pila Mulligan: my favorite part of Don Juan's comments was how he said a baby is taught what to focus their attention on
    Paradise Tennant: i remember one lovely afternoon ..just watching rain form a puddle in my jacket ..while lying on a rock.. being awestruck by the sheer wonder of it.. :)
    Paradise Tennant: :) my one and only experience with .. doctored bake goods lol
    Pila Mulligan: Eos earlier referred to the idea of epoché
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: "a Greek term which describes the theoretical moment where all belief in the existence of the real world, and consequently all action in the real world, is suspended. One's own consciousness is subject to immanent critique so that when such belief is recovered, it will have a firmer grounding in consciousness."
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoche
    Pila Mulligan: yep, the smallest thing can signal our perception to shift a bit
    Pila Mulligan: if we are open to it
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the idea of connectedness is undeniable, which was why I was asking about context
    Paradise Tennant: that shift can have manificent consequences see it in art science music
    Pila Mulligan: [20:07] Paradise Tennant: well if we go to the minute .. on the atomic level we are kind of one thing [20:08] Paradise Tennant: many traditions believe the self is a delusion
    Paradise Tennant: hmm well I think it bridges every context
    Pila Mulligan: and I mentioned a neighbor's recent comment on how at the lowest level, everythinig is a common form of energy
    Pila Mulligan: that's does not do his comment justice, excpet as a summary
    Paradise Tennant: yes would very much agree
    stevenaia Michinaga: but to perceive the connectedness is another thing entirely
    Paradise Tennant: sigh very much .. a leap
    Pila Mulligan: and for some, the mere approach to it is frightening
    stevenaia Michinaga: as seen in the "Matrix"
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: as you arrvied Steve, I referred to a wiki defintion of asana (as in yoga) as 'a position intended primarily to restore and maintain a practitioner's well-being'
    Pila Mulligan: we can take our approach to such things in small steps
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: and maintain our sense of well-being on the way
    Pila Mulligan: ...or we can just leap and hope for good luck :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: that is the first step to understanding much... "well being"
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Paradise Tennant: understanding the fabric to which we woven i think can really add to our well being
    Paradise Tennant: *are
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: our lives are full of contesting potentials for affliction and well being, and we seem to learn by trial and error sometimes
    Paradise Tennant: funny example.. a chap in india writes a tax circular without drinking his morning tea, miswords the description of a new levy .. to sound as though there is an enormous penalty on capital gains if you sell after a certain date .. starts a run on the indian market which last three days it drops some 33 percent.. one of my stocks on the amex is linked to a jv with the indian version of shell .. and it gets trounced .. so I wake up one morring .. drinking my tea .. and see the results of him not having his :))
    Paradise Tennant: we never meet ... but our lives connect
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: and you telling us also connects us
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: did they recover when he explained his mistake?
    Pila Mulligan: the stocks?
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. and rebounced more but after several months..
    Paradise Tennant: lol caused suicide in india .. massive losses.. I am quite sure .. he went into hiding ;))
    Paradise Tennant: *suicides
    Pila Mulligan: I wonder what the historical ratio is of similar mistakes to intentional acts
    Paradise Tennant: not really so funny afterall
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: maybe informed intent is a better comparison
    Paradise Tennant: alway torn .. between believing that everything we do at some level in intentional ..maybe just not our litle intention
    Paradise Tennant: hmm have not expressed that well
    Paradise Tennant: all our actions are the result of intention on some level
    Paradise Tennant: i believe
    Pila Mulligan: well, I think many folks in modern times have an inflated perception of logical causation
    Pila Mulligan: I was thinking more in terms of historical events
    Pila Mulligan: how they occur
    Pila Mulligan: I agree, people act with intent
    Paradise Tennant: blinks
    Pila Mulligan: usually
    Paradise Tennant: well maybe not always .. conscious intent
    Pila Mulligan: how many missed teas lurk in history to explain things we attribute to reasonable acts?
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Paradise Tennant: we look for reasonable ..
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
    Paradise Tennant: :)) good night steve ..nice to see you again ..
    Pila Mulligan: bye steve
    Paradise Tennant: getting late on the east coast .. I should scoot too .. thank you pila .. for the conversation :))
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you Paradise -- bye until next time
    Paradise Tennant: big wave from toronto :))
    Pila Mulligan: :) aloha
    Paradise Tennant: :) aloha
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