2009.05.19 13:00 - Tattoosirisreve..?

I am just wondering where Fef's eyes are directed

Fefonz Quan: nice tatoo there ara
arabella Ella: yea wish i had it in RL
arabella Ella: hehe
Fefonz Quan: what stops you?
Mickorod Renard: are tattoo's ok in your culture fef?
arabella Ella: many things Fef
arabella Ella: permanence
arabella Ella: social taboos
arabella Ella: etc
Fefonz Quan: social tatoos? ;-)
arabella Ella: living in a small community where reputation is key
arabella Ella: taboo - certain things being perceived as negative
Mickorod Renard: I have some rl tats
arabella Ella: yes Mick but u r a brit male which is very different
Mickorod Renard: mostly from when i was a crazy kid
Fefonz Quan: where i live there are also women getting them. not common, but not very rare too
arabella Ella: yes here too
Mickorod Renard: yes,,tats have been acceptable here for many years
Fefonz Quan: (and not all places are public, even in a small place Ara
Fefonz Quan: )

whose tat is it anyway?

arabella Ella: but did u know ... there are religious aspects ... which have become like jungian archetypes ... concerning tatooes
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Fefonz Quan: yes? which?
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Mickorod Renard: Hi sophia
arabella Ella: ok here goes
Mickorod Renard: he he
Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia
arabella Ella: old catholic tradition sees the body as precious and not to be 'deformed' as it will 'rise again'
arabella Ella: Hiya sophia
arabella Ella: altho that is the 'old' way of looking at things
Mickorod Renard: we are talking about tattoo's
Fefonz Quan: as if the body is not getting naturally deformed when old
arabella Ella: u probably know the old religon questions we used to learn
arabella Ella: who made you
arabella Ella: why
arabella Ella: how
arabella Ella: in His image and likeness
sophia Placebo: love temporary ones , not sure about perminant ones
Fefonz Quan: yes, what does those questions have to do with tatoos?
arabella Ella: yes sophia i agree
arabella Ella: hey got horrible lag
arabella Ella: my replies not coming up
arabella Ella: or coming up in wrong order
Fefonz Quan: i thought christians have no problems with images and icons
arabella Ella: that's another thing ... AND there are christians and christians
Mickorod Renard: well,,i am more protestant..or lutherarian
arabella Ella: altho as i have argued here many times
arabella Ella: i prefer to look at similarities rather than differences
arabella Ella: and at one huge world religion
Mickorod Renard: and image worship is frowned upon
arabella Ella: frowned upon by lutherans and CoE Mick
Mickorod Renard: yes
Fefonz Quan: but a tatoo doesn't say you worship it, does it?
Mickorod Renard: thats right
arabella Ella: absolutely
arabella Ella: but ... Religion says
arabella Ella: God made us
arabella Ella: in His own image and likeness
arabella Ella: and we will rise again
arabella Ella: etc etc
Fefonz Quan: ok, so?
arabella Ella: so those are the 'old' vestiges about not deforming the human body
sophia Placebo: plastic surgeries?
Fefonz Quan: yes. are you religious?
arabella Ella: sorry my chat is not appearing in sequence tonite
Mickorod Renard: but if so,,God made us individual too
arabella Ella: i am only repeating arguments i heard as a child
Fefonz Quan: (for ara the questin was)
Fefonz Quan: question*
arabella Ella: i am religious yes but in my own way
arabella Ella: and a bit reluctant to go into that topic in too much detail while we are on air
arabella Ella: mainly because when u live in a small community like i do
Mickorod Renard: yea,,maybe we shud chang the subject
arabella Ella: reputation is very very important
Fefonz Quan: ok, so we can stop.
arabella Ella: and Ara has a reputation too ... like I have a reputation too in RL
arabella Ella: in a small community
arabella Ella: once you lose your reputation ... that's it ... it may ruin your whole life and future
Mickorod Renard: its funny,,I just started reading a second book,,paralel to another
arabella Ella: that is why small communities tend to be more conservative than large ones
Mickorod Renard: and its beginning with infinite and finite existance
sophia Placebo: sunnis say tattos are bad , shias say tattos are ok though one should use his brain befor printing one to his skin but generally it is bad to

perminantly damage your body and cause some perminant disfunction in it intentionally for no medical purposes
Fefonz Quan is wondered and surprise over and over again to see how religions that announce themselves as 'spreading love and kindness' are spreading

intolerance and discrimination
arabella Ella: yes sophia i think here we have a lot of influence from your culture too
arabella Ella: and from your culture too Fef
arabella Ella: oh apologies ... shhhhhhhhh
Mickorod Renard: I think guidance is ok
arabella Ella: sophia ... for example ... here a lot of people believe in ... il-maghmul
arabella Ella: you know what that is?
Mickorod Renard: but when intollerance arises over something that should be optional,,well thats where things go wrong
Fefonz Quan: yes i was surprised to hear that too Ara
sophia Placebo: no what is it?
arabella Ella: when someone puts a bad spell on someone else
Fefonz Quan: sounds like a turkish candy :)
Mickorod Renard: lol
arabella Ella: hiya gen
Fefonz Quan: Hey Gen
Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
sophia Placebo: hi gen
arabella Ella: about tatooes
arabella Ella: i think we also need to remember
sophia Placebo: il ma'mool is similar to some egyptian word that has same meaning
arabella Ella: malta was an important port ... harbour ... in the past
Mickorod Renard: still is
arabella Ella: and we used to have lots of visiting sailors
arabella Ella: sailors often used to get tatoos when drunk
arabella Ella: and they often had what used to be considered 'loose morals'
genesis Zhangsun: hi everyone!
Fefonz Quan: i see, so it is like a social sign for misbehaved strangers
arabella Ella: to some extent yes
arabella Ella: ouch this lag is so bad tonite ... my chat takes ages to appear
Fefonz Quan: well, i think this is one major factor in making tatoos appealing, the sense of 'rebelion' they give to the owner
Mickorod Renard: body painting etc was traditional in Britain pre roman
Mickorod Renard: body
arabella Ella: my language sophia is more similar to that in lebanon and syria
arabella Ella: yes Mick but remember
arabella Ella: the brits were often considered to be barbarians by many
arabella Ella: including the romans
arabella Ella: altho being a barbarian really meant
Mickorod Renard: still are I think
arabella Ella: they could not speak greek or roman
arabella Ella: my countrypeople were also considered barbarians during roman times
Mickorod Renard: we made up good hand and finger gestures
Fefonz Quan: i am not sure the brits today share the same ethnicity with the old guys you are talking about
arabella Ella: yes ... especially when it comes to soccer mick
sophia Placebo: i see , would give the same results though but maybe cuz the egyptians has this il ma'mool more clear than leventine areas
arabella Ella: yes sophia?
arabella Ella: interesting
sophia Placebo: do you have the blue eye too ?
arabella Ella: my eyes are brown but i have nephews with blue eyes and others with green eyes
arabella Ella: altho ... do you mean ... the evil eye?
arabella Ella: something different?
arabella Ella: l-ghajn?
sophia Placebo: :)) no imeant a necklace with a blue eye
arabella Ella: ghajn hazina?
sophia Placebo: protect from envy
arabella Ella: no we dont i have seen that in turkey though
sophia Placebo: yes eain hazina
arabella Ella: see ... similar words
Mickorod Renard: wow,,similar words
Mickorod Renard: snap
sophia Placebo: yes thats why i asked , sew alot of it in turkey
arabella Ella: yes
sophia Placebo: saw*
arabella Ella: here we have the eye of osiris on our fishing boats to protect them against evil
arabella Ella: osiris was the phoenician goddess
Fefonz Quan: (i thought egyptian)
sophia Placebo: me too
arabella Ella: maybe i am wrong ... but i know osiris as being of phoenician origin
Mickorod Renard: do they still think noah's ark is in turkey?
arabella Ella: i have no idea mick
Fefonz Quan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris
Fefonz Quan: oops, did something happen to Sophia?
Mickorod Renard: maybe she opened the link
Mickorod Renard: my pc nearly crashes when i open another window
arabella Ella: ok thanks Fef but i am still not 100 percent convinced altho i admit i may be wrong ...
arabella Ella: but i would not take wikipedia to be an authoritive source
genesis Zhangsun: seems like a bit of cross pollination between egyptians and phonecians
Fefonz Quan: surely the gods could travel :) look what happened to jesus
Fefonz Quan: (yes that was my point Gen)
arabella Ella: plus ... we all know that history is often edited selectively over the ages
Mickorod Renard: Nevertheless, Biblical literalists continue to explore the region of the mountains of Ararat, in northeastern Turkey, where the Bible says

Noah's Ark came to rest.
Mickorod Renard: just a lil reference
genesis Zhangsun: arkeologists ;)
genesis Zhangsun: (sorry bad joke)
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Fefonz Quan: yes, i always wondered about people looking for history in myth
genesis Zhangsun: beat you to it Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: yeah, good one gen :)
Mickorod Renard: well,,i heard that they had found the ark some years ago,,then it all went quiet
Fefonz Quan: do you hint that i am in charge of the bad jokes here Gen ? ;-)
arabella Ella: hehe
genesis Zhangsun: :) no me never!
arabella Ella: :)

Dream on

Mickorod Renard: which class is it after here,,at Kira?
Mickorod Renard: is it dreams?
arabella Ella: maxine on dreams tonite i think
Mickorod Renard: ahh
arabella Ella: normally she is here too today
Fefonz Quan: Dreams dreams dreams
arabella Ella: dreeeeee eeeeammm eaaaam
Fefonz Quan: yes, trhat one!
arabella Ella: hehe
arabella Ella: humming it in my head now :)
Mickorod Renard: I was reading something that was posted in pab the other day,,it seems that dreams are still quite a mystery
genesis Zhangsun: seems so Mick :)
genesis Zhangsun: care to say something about that?
Mickorod Renard: well,,what i read refered to the knowledge that rem dreams are not the only dreams
Fefonz Quan: (i suspected it a long time ago)
Mickorod Renard: and they are not even the most vivid
Fefonz Quan: since rem should take place after sometime of sleep, when it is supposed to be very deep one
Mickorod Renard: I could proberbly find the article
Mickorod Renard: yes
Fefonz Quan: and i can slide easily into a dream even in a 15 min afternoon nap
arabella Ella: i find it really strange to think about how i really cannot remember most of my dreams however vivid they may bee
Mickorod Renard: its strange how we may have attached our individual knowledge about dreams on what may be old wives tales
Fefonz Quan: i remember them almost every morning ara
Mickorod Renard: or at least out of date notions
arabella Ella: what do you mean mick?
arabella Ella: i forget most if not all of mind Fef and it disappoints me to do so
Mickorod Renard: well,,when I read the article it was in cronological order of idea's
Mickorod Renard: and I seemed to read through thinking that the first idea's were the correct ones until I read on
Mickorod Renard: until at the end I realized that i knew nothing

Mickorod Renard: thanks for coming