2009.05.19 13:00 - Tattoosirisreve..?

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.

    I am just wondering where Fef's eyes are directed

    Fefonz Quan: nice tatoo there ara
    arabella Ella: yea wish i had it in RL
    arabella Ella: hehe
    Fefonz Quan: what stops you?
    Mickorod Renard: are tattoo's ok in your culture fef?
    arabella Ella: many things Fef
    arabella Ella: permanence
    arabella Ella: social taboos
    arabella Ella: etc
    Fefonz Quan: social tatoos? ;-)
    arabella Ella: living in a small community where reputation is key
    arabella Ella: taboo - certain things being perceived as negative
    Mickorod Renard: I have some rl tats
    arabella Ella: yes Mick but u r a brit male which is very different
    Mickorod Renard: mostly from when i was a crazy kid
    Fefonz Quan: where i live there are also women getting them. not common, but not very rare too
    arabella Ella: yes here too
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,tats have been acceptable here for many years
    Fefonz Quan: (and not all places are public, even in a small place Ara
    Fefonz Quan: )

    whose tat is it anyway?

    arabella Ella: but did u know ... there are religious aspects ... which have become like jungian archetypes ... concerning tatooes
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    Fefonz Quan: yes? which?
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Mickorod Renard: Hi sophia
    arabella Ella: ok here goes
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia
    arabella Ella: old catholic tradition sees the body as precious and not to be 'deformed' as it will 'rise again'
    arabella Ella: Hiya sophia
    arabella Ella: altho that is the 'old' way of looking at things
    Mickorod Renard: we are talking about tattoo's
    Fefonz Quan: as if the body is not getting naturally deformed when old
    arabella Ella: u probably know the old religon questions we used to learn
    arabella Ella: who made you
    arabella Ella: why
    arabella Ella: how
    arabella Ella: in His image and likeness
    sophia Placebo: love temporary ones , not sure about perminant ones
    Fefonz Quan: yes, what does those questions have to do with tatoos?
    arabella Ella: yes sophia i agree
    arabella Ella: hey got horrible lag
    arabella Ella: my replies not coming up
    arabella Ella: or coming up in wrong order
    Fefonz Quan: i thought christians have no problems with images and icons
    arabella Ella: that's another thing ... AND there are christians and christians
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i am more protestant..or lutherarian
    arabella Ella: altho as i have argued here many times
    arabella Ella: i prefer to look at similarities rather than differences
    arabella Ella: and at one huge world religion
    Mickorod Renard: and image worship is frowned upon
    arabella Ella: frowned upon by lutherans and CoE Mick
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fefonz Quan: but a tatoo doesn't say you worship it, does it?
    Mickorod Renard: thats right
    arabella Ella: absolutely
    arabella Ella: but ... Religion says
    arabella Ella: God made us
    arabella Ella: in His own image and likeness
    arabella Ella: and we will rise again
    arabella Ella: etc etc
    Fefonz Quan: ok, so?
    arabella Ella: so those are the 'old' vestiges about not deforming the human body
    sophia Placebo: plastic surgeries?
    Fefonz Quan: yes. are you religious?
    arabella Ella: sorry my chat is not appearing in sequence tonite
    Mickorod Renard: but if so,,God made us individual too
    arabella Ella: i am only repeating arguments i heard as a child
    Fefonz Quan: (for ara the questin was)
    Fefonz Quan: question*
    arabella Ella: i am religious yes but in my own way
    arabella Ella: and a bit reluctant to go into that topic in too much detail while we are on air
    arabella Ella: mainly because when u live in a small community like i do
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,maybe we shud chang the subject
    arabella Ella: reputation is very very important
    Fefonz Quan: ok, so we can stop.
    arabella Ella: and Ara has a reputation too ... like I have a reputation too in RL
    arabella Ella: in a small community
    arabella Ella: once you lose your reputation ... that's it ... it may ruin your whole life and future
    Mickorod Renard: its funny,,I just started reading a second book,,paralel to another
    arabella Ella: that is why small communities tend to be more conservative than large ones
    Mickorod Renard: and its beginning with infinite and finite existance
    sophia Placebo: sunnis say tattos are bad , shias say tattos are ok though one should use his brain befor printing one to his skin but generally it is bad to

    perminantly damage your body and cause some perminant disfunction in it intentionally for no medical purposes
    Fefonz Quan is wondered and surprise over and over again to see how religions that announce themselves as 'spreading love and kindness' are spreading

    intolerance and discrimination
    arabella Ella: yes sophia i think here we have a lot of influence from your culture too
    arabella Ella: and from your culture too Fef
    arabella Ella: oh apologies ... shhhhhhhhh
    Mickorod Renard: I think guidance is ok
    arabella Ella: sophia ... for example ... here a lot of people believe in ... il-maghmul
    arabella Ella: you know what that is?
    Mickorod Renard: but when intollerance arises over something that should be optional,,well thats where things go wrong
    Fefonz Quan: yes i was surprised to hear that too Ara
    sophia Placebo: no what is it?
    arabella Ella: when someone puts a bad spell on someone else
    Fefonz Quan: sounds like a turkish candy :)
    Mickorod Renard: lol
    arabella Ella: hiya gen
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Gen
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
    sophia Placebo: hi gen
    arabella Ella: about tatooes
    arabella Ella: i think we also need to remember
    sophia Placebo: il ma'mool is similar to some egyptian word that has same meaning
    arabella Ella: malta was an important port ... harbour ... in the past
    Mickorod Renard: still is
    arabella Ella: and we used to have lots of visiting sailors
    arabella Ella: sailors often used to get tatoos when drunk
    arabella Ella: and they often had what used to be considered 'loose morals'
    genesis Zhangsun: hi everyone!
    Fefonz Quan: i see, so it is like a social sign for misbehaved strangers
    arabella Ella: to some extent yes
    arabella Ella: ouch this lag is so bad tonite ... my chat takes ages to appear
    Fefonz Quan: well, i think this is one major factor in making tatoos appealing, the sense of 'rebelion' they give to the owner
    Mickorod Renard: body painting etc was traditional in Britain pre roman
    Mickorod Renard: body
    arabella Ella: my language sophia is more similar to that in lebanon and syria
    arabella Ella: yes Mick but remember
    arabella Ella: the brits were often considered to be barbarians by many
    arabella Ella: including the romans
    arabella Ella: altho being a barbarian really meant
    Mickorod Renard: still are I think
    arabella Ella: they could not speak greek or roman
    arabella Ella: my countrypeople were also considered barbarians during roman times
    Mickorod Renard: we made up good hand and finger gestures
    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure the brits today share the same ethnicity with the old guys you are talking about
    arabella Ella: yes ... especially when it comes to soccer mick
    sophia Placebo: i see , would give the same results though but maybe cuz the egyptians has this il ma'mool more clear than leventine areas
    arabella Ella: yes sophia?
    arabella Ella: interesting
    sophia Placebo: do you have the blue eye too ?
    arabella Ella: my eyes are brown but i have nephews with blue eyes and others with green eyes
    arabella Ella: altho ... do you mean ... the evil eye?
    arabella Ella: something different?
    arabella Ella: l-ghajn?
    sophia Placebo: :)) no imeant a necklace with a blue eye
    arabella Ella: ghajn hazina?
    sophia Placebo: protect from envy
    arabella Ella: no we dont i have seen that in turkey though
    sophia Placebo: yes eain hazina
    arabella Ella: see ... similar words
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,similar words
    Mickorod Renard: snap
    sophia Placebo: yes thats why i asked , sew alot of it in turkey
    arabella Ella: yes
    sophia Placebo: saw*
    arabella Ella: here we have the eye of osiris on our fishing boats to protect them against evil
    arabella Ella: osiris was the phoenician goddess
    Fefonz Quan: (i thought egyptian)
    sophia Placebo: me too
    arabella Ella: maybe i am wrong ... but i know osiris as being of phoenician origin
    Mickorod Renard: do they still think noah's ark is in turkey?
    arabella Ella: i have no idea mick
    Fefonz Quan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris
    Fefonz Quan: oops, did something happen to Sophia?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe she opened the link
    Mickorod Renard: my pc nearly crashes when i open another window
    arabella Ella: ok thanks Fef but i am still not 100 percent convinced altho i admit i may be wrong ...
    arabella Ella: but i would not take wikipedia to be an authoritive source
    genesis Zhangsun: seems like a bit of cross pollination between egyptians and phonecians
    Fefonz Quan: surely the gods could travel :) look what happened to jesus
    Fefonz Quan: (yes that was my point Gen)
    arabella Ella: plus ... we all know that history is often edited selectively over the ages
    Mickorod Renard: Nevertheless, Biblical literalists continue to explore the region of the mountains of Ararat, in northeastern Turkey, where the Bible says

    Noah's Ark came to rest.
    Mickorod Renard: just a lil reference
    genesis Zhangsun: arkeologists ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: (sorry bad joke)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i always wondered about people looking for history in myth
    genesis Zhangsun: beat you to it Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, good one gen :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i heard that they had found the ark some years ago,,then it all went quiet
    Fefonz Quan: do you hint that i am in charge of the bad jokes here Gen ? ;-)
    arabella Ella: hehe
    genesis Zhangsun: :) no me never!
    arabella Ella: :)

    Dream on

    Mickorod Renard: which class is it after here,,at Kira?
    Mickorod Renard: is it dreams?
    arabella Ella: maxine on dreams tonite i think
    Mickorod Renard: ahh
    arabella Ella: normally she is here too today
    Fefonz Quan: Dreams dreams dreams
    arabella Ella: dreeeeee eeeeammm eaaaam
    Fefonz Quan: yes, trhat one!
    arabella Ella: hehe
    arabella Ella: humming it in my head now :)
    Mickorod Renard: I was reading something that was posted in pab the other day,,it seems that dreams are still quite a mystery
    genesis Zhangsun: seems so Mick :)
    genesis Zhangsun: care to say something about that?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,what i read refered to the knowledge that rem dreams are not the only dreams
    Fefonz Quan: (i suspected it a long time ago)
    Mickorod Renard: and they are not even the most vivid
    Fefonz Quan: since rem should take place after sometime of sleep, when it is supposed to be very deep one
    Mickorod Renard: I could proberbly find the article
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fefonz Quan: and i can slide easily into a dream even in a 15 min afternoon nap
    arabella Ella: i find it really strange to think about how i really cannot remember most of my dreams however vivid they may bee
    Mickorod Renard: its strange how we may have attached our individual knowledge about dreams on what may be old wives tales
    Fefonz Quan: i remember them almost every morning ara
    Mickorod Renard: or at least out of date notions
    arabella Ella: what do you mean mick?
    arabella Ella: i forget most if not all of mind Fef and it disappoints me to do so
    Mickorod Renard: well,,when I read the article it was in cronological order of idea's
    Mickorod Renard: and I seemed to read through thinking that the first idea's were the correct ones until I read on
    Mickorod Renard: until at the end I realized that i knew nothing

    Mickorod Renard: thanks for coming

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