2009.05.20 19:00 - Body and mind are dropped? Body and mind are indeed dropped.

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    The Guardian for this meeting was aurel Miles. The comments are by aurel Miles.


    buddha Nirvana: hi pema, aurel
    Pema Pera: Hi Aurel!
    aurel Miles: Hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Buddha!
    aurel Miles: Hi Buddha
    aurel Miles: so how is everyone tonight?
    aurel Miles: I am in boston
    Pema Pera: fine, getting ready for lunch soon :)
    aurel Miles: visiting
    aurel Miles: oh
    Pema Pera: here in Tokyo, that is
    aurel Miles: right
    aurel Miles: how is tokyo
    Pema Pera: Boston is a great city
    buddha Nirvana: well thnks:)
    aurel Miles: yes
    aurel Miles: i went to the Widener Library at Harvard yesterday
    aurel Miles: it was lovely
    Pema Pera: you can actually walk around in Boston and Cambridge, unlike many Amerian cities
    Pema Pera: were you looking for something in particular at the library?
    aurel Miles: no
    aurel Miles: just exploring with a friend
    Pema Pera: Hi there Eos!
    aurel Miles: one of my friends is a research librarian there
    aurel Miles: Hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: and buddha!
    buddha Nirvana: hi eos
    aurel Miles: so - does anyone have anything in particular to talk about tonight
    Pema Pera: Eos, may I ask what kind of practice you are currently involved in? You mentioned a Trungpa connection, a while ago
    Eos Amaterasu: Trungpa was my main Buddhadharma teacher.
    Eos Amaterasu: One of the frequent practices I do is to take walks through this very lovely park, in Halifax. It has trails through the woods, and comes out on a body of water that defines part of the Halifax penninsula, and looks out to open horizon at one spot.
    aurel Miles: sounds lovely
    Eos Amaterasu: It's both a walk for my health, therefore relatively swift-paced, and a time to.... drop everything and "appreciate the presence of phenomena", as you put it :-)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: have you found that short sentence useful, to work with?
    Eos Amaterasu: I feel really lucky to have such a beautiful spot to walk through
    Eos Amaterasu: I think that sentence is very well put as a kind of mnemonic or instruction
    Eos Amaterasu: Interestingly, when I first started these walks I was inspired by the Dogen koan: "Body and mind are dropped? Body and mind are indeed dropped."
    Eos Amaterasu: For some reason I've felt a relationship to that, and feel it speaks to the kind of suspension that is part of a certain kind of practice
    Eos Amaterasu: which feels very close to Playing as Being
    Eos Amaterasu: Body and mind both become phenomenal
    aurel Miles: i am not sure i understand
    Pema Pera: it is so interesting that there is absolutely nothing we can do, or strive for, or try to reach or capture -- all we can really do is drop/stop
    aurel Miles: could you explain?
    Eos Amaterasu: Well, there the ongoing inertia or rush of my stuff - thoughts always come up
    Eos Amaterasu: But if I just let it come, and let it go, it's just appearance, experience, and even though a lot of it is what I identify myself with, as I let it come and go it's easier to both let go of it and see it clearly
    aurel Miles: so -
    aurel Miles: let it come? and let it go?
    Eos Amaterasu: it comes anyway - we don't really have that much control of our thoughts, and if we try to control them they get kind of monkey-ish :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: appearances arise anyway
    aurel Miles: hmmm - i was under the impression that the appearance is there and uncontrollable
    aurel Miles: what i control is my perception of it
    aurel Miles: which of course - defines the appearance itself
    Eos Amaterasu: letting go can be harder, in a sense, because you attach, get sticky, as you fall asleep
    aurel Miles: bgut then again - i am coming from a filmic background
    Eos Amaterasu: ah
    Eos Amaterasu: film makes a great metaphor, does it not?
    aurel Miles: i see film as a kind of cultural metatext
    aurel Miles: i suppose that is a metaphor
    Pema Pera: in order to open up, by stopping and dropping, I find it helpful first to make the move to viewing everything as appearances
    Pema Pera: we are normally so caught up in dealing in a pragmatic way with all we are immersed in
    Pema Pera: things, ideas, wishes, hopes and fears
    Pema Pera: but stepping back, and just watching them, like sitting on a bench in a park and watchng who/what moves by, helps
    Pema Pera: or like watching a film, yes
    aurel Miles nods
    Eos Amaterasu: or being in SL
    Pema Pera: yes, very much so
    Eos Amaterasu: different kinds of immersivity
    Eos Amaterasu: which helps relate to being immersed in RL in a similar way
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: btw, Eos, have you heard the longer version of the APA sentence? It's APAPB :-)
    Pema Pera: appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being
    Pema Pera: it's meant as a kind of inroad to get a sense of what Being is, in Play as Being
    Eos Amaterasu: appearance discloses Being
    Pema Pera: yes!!
    Eos Amaterasu: Yesterday we were talking about the space between the notes
    Pema Pera: in and as each appearance
    Eos Amaterasu: but also the notes are also space
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: stripping all that we experience down to the bare bones fact of their appearance, their presence as appearances is the negative direction
    Pema Pera: the positive direction is to see those in turn as presentations by Being
    Pema Pera: but it is hard to let Being shine through as long as we haven't done the house cleaning first of the more negative step
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, that's an interesting aspect of the "discipline", or impeccability, of such a practice
    Pema Pera: and as you said, our body and mind are also appearance -- and as such we ourselves are both presentations by Being and Being itself in a way that needs to be unpacked or seen
    Pema Pera: so we "play as" Being in order to help see that
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, yes.
    Pema Pera: or you could say: we explore the hypothesis that we may be Being already
    Eos Amaterasu: "open space cannot be perceived by otherwise at all"
    Pema Pera: and see how that feels, how it changes our world/life
    Pema Pera: interesting quote, can you say more about that, Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: It's one of my favorite quotes by Chogyam Trungpa - he loved playing with language
    Eos Amaterasu: you have to BE open space in orer to perceive open space, you have to be, be open
    Pema Pera: yes, that makes sense
    aurel Miles: Hello Paradise
    Pema Pera: Hi Paradise!
    Eos Amaterasu: Hello Paradise!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya pema aurel :)) eos
    Pema Pera: How was it, Eos, to talk with Trungpa in person. Did you get a chance to have some informal chats with him?
    aurel Miles: Hello Threedee
    Pema Pera: Hi Three!
    Threedee Shepherd: hi folks
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes. As you know he was a controversial figure, but I was lucky to connect with him and work with him.
    Paradise Tennant: hiya three :))
    Eos Amaterasu: Like a very slowly exploding atomic bomb...
    aurel Miles: interesting
    Pema Pera: I've never met him, but there is so much that shows through in this writing and the talk transcripts -- he must have been an extraordinary figure
    Eos Amaterasu: the presence of being was very powerful, had no restraints, but also no compulsion
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Eos Amaterasu: also not playing the normal confirmation games
    Eos Amaterasu: which meant you tended to be hanging in space when with him
    Eos Amaterasu: but I think the key thing was really what we're talking about here - appreciating each moment
    Paradise Tennant: fully deeply aware :)))
    Eos Amaterasu: every expereience and perception has within it at least the seeds of openness
    Eos Amaterasu: the "way of the warrior" is to approach it that way
    Pema Pera: did he change his emphasis over time?
    Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
    Eos Amaterasu: Not shy away from anything, not get taken in
    aurel Miles: Hello Eliza
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliz!
    Pema Pera: (we're talking about Trungpa, Eos' main teacher)
    Eos Amaterasu: & ThreeDee
    Paradise Tennant: hiya eliza :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal scrolls.... listening interestedly
    Eos Amaterasu: I don't think he fundamentally changed his emphasis, but he moved from just presenting buddhist teachings to
    Eos Amaterasu: trying to express them in a way that was not religious, but secular while also being sacred
    aurel Miles: i like that
    Eos Amaterasu: that's where the myth of Shambhala as a society of people who practiced this way came in
    Pema Pera: that is indeed close to what we are trying to do here, in Play as Being
    Eos Amaterasu: ie, how do you be that way throughout your daily life
    Paradise Tennant: :)) he was certainly larger that life :)
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, extra-ordinary (with emphasis on the latter :-)
    Pema Pera: Have you met him too, Paradise?
    Pema Pera: :)
    Paradise Tennant: no but I know others who have :))
    Pema Pera: same for me
    Paradise Tennant: did he not crash his car into a joke shop once ? or am I confused :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, back in England in the late sixties
    Paradise Tennant: karmic .. humor ?
    Eos Amaterasu: the joke was on him
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, too sleepy... Nice to see everyone :)
    aurel Miles: goodnight Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite! :
    Paradise Tennant: good nite eliza :))
    Eos Amaterasu: the other radical thing was that not only was it possible for anyone to practice and be this way
    Eos Amaterasu: but, what if there were a whole society of people like that? What would that be like?
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: have you read "What makes you not a buddhist" eos .. thought it connected well with western thinking too :))
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah yes, by that somewhat of a rascal guy, Dzongsar Khyentse
    Paradise Tennant: my personal favourite .. been listening to his teachings lately .. he can be alittle shocking but he is a bit more linear in communicating I find on some levels I get it more easily listening to him
    Eos Amaterasu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2bk-ddtf8 is a preview of an upcoming movie on "Tulkus"
    Paradise Tennant: cool !
    aurel Miles: thank you
    Eos Amaterasu: includes a funny segment with DK.
    Eos Amaterasu: It's made by Gesar Mukpo, who himself was recognized as a "tulku", rebirth of a great teacher, but is trying to figure that out
    Paradise Tennant: he is pretty funny .. not too many of them are truly funny :))
    Eos Amaterasu: along with a bunch of other kids and grownups in a similiar spot
    Eos Amaterasu: Think what that could do to your self-image, or who you think you are!
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: took me a long time to get my mind around reincarnation but now I am a convert .. think we have all been around quite a few times ..
    aurel Miles: could be
    Paradise Tennant: found it really interesting to see .. how closely some of the precepts of buddhist thought are being borne out in the findings of quantum physics more recently .. there is a lot to the world we are and the world that surrounds us .. that we cannot really grasp with our senses :))
    Pema Pera: sorry, time to return to RL for lunch
    aurel Miles: np
    Eos Amaterasu: Hope it's delicious!
    Pema Pera: great talking with y
    Pema Pera: all
    aurel Miles: bye Pema
    aurel Miles: thanks
    Paradise Tennant: good by pema :))
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Pema
    Eos Amaterasu: I have to catch the midnight sleep express here....
    Eos Amaterasu: thanks everyone!
    aurel Miles: yes -
    aurel Miles: thank you for coming
    Paradise Tennant: lol :)) thank you .. have a good nite all :)))
    aurel Miles: i too, need to go to bed
    Solobill Laville: night all, thanks for letting me listen in
    Paradise Tennant: good nite solobill :)))
    Paradise Tennant: hope to see you again :)))
    aurel Miles: thank you for coming solobill!
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite aurel :))
    aurel Miles: good night PAradise

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