2009.05.21 07:00 - Exposure

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

    I arrived a few minutes late, to Susi, Fael, and Nymf sitting by the fountain. We started with "What are PaB thoughts?" and moved on quickly to issues of privacy. After a little while, Adams joined us, and we shifted gears a little into default life scripts / higher views of love and compassion. 

    This topic reminds me very much of something every writer I know struggles with sometimes. How much of one's own personal story, with others as players, is appropriate to share? What is the cost for sharing/not sharing? My favorite quote on that topic is from author Anne Lamott who writes "What has happened to you is yours, it belongs to you." That said, is she right? 

    Susi Alcott: yea; only to understand for the sentece, if there's the typo
    Susi Alcott: oh
    Susi Alcott: the recording started already
    Fael Illyar: yes, it starts 10 minutes before the official time
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Nymf Hathaway: Good day :)
    Fael Illyar: Hello Nymf :)
    Fael Illyar: Have you been here before?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\ Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: Yes I have :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Thanks for asking :)
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Then I can skip introductions.'
    Nymf Hathaway: Good day Eliza :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning everyone... apologies for my late arrival!
    Eliza Madrigal: Very unusual for me...
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: am normally early :)
    Susi Alcott: your in good time Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: Fael, gorgeous as always, and good to see you Nymf and Susi :)
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Nymf Hathaway: Same here :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal: Does anyone have PaB thoughts today?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: (or other thoughts... they'll fit in there somewhere..hah)
    Susi Alcott: may I ask what are PaB thoughts ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, good question...
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB thoughts are to me, mindful thoughts...
    Eliza Madrigal: thoughts about bringing attention to living mindfully
    Fael Illyar: thoughts of mindfulness?
    Susi Alcott: I'm not sure if I understand that word correctly....
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... Attention to living with an element of Presence?
    Susi Alcott: could ur question be understood if you asked if somebody has any certain topic in mind ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Susi Alcott: as that question I do undestand
    Eliza Madrigal: (my last sentence certainly wasn't the right phrasing... am a little scattered)
    Susi Alcott: and ...well...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Susi Alcott: as I had something in my mind
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Susi Alcott: had that several times before...but ...then there's not that question made in any form
    Susi Alcott: 'privacy'
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah.. in what sense Susi?
    Susi Alcott: well
    Susi Alcott: in any
    Susi Alcott: but today it rose cuz I noticed that I got some will to have privacy
    Susi Alcott: but we can let that 'case' to be
    Eliza Madrigal: There seems to be a balance every person finds on their own... what to share, what to keep to themselves...?
    Nymf Hathaway: Privacy where? in rl or sl?
    Susi Alcott: is it so ?
    Susi Alcott: that every person finds
    Susi Alcott: meanng that it's truly been so often in my mind, cuz it's something that ppl so much violate from other people
    Eliza Madrigal: Personally, I share things if they come up naturally... try not to force openness
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, you mean another's privacy...
    Fael Illyar: perhaps anyone's privacy?
    Susi Alcott: well; privacy itself...the right that each person has
    Nymf Hathaway: well since privacy is personal...first you need to know what the other experiences as privacy
    Eliza Madrigal: Nymf, that is what I was thinking....
    Eliza Madrigal: that it seems to come down to personal relationships...
    Nymf Hathaway: I am very open...I wouldn't mind Eliza to say she saw me with Pila for example
    Eliza Madrigal: or ones personal comfort zone with the collective
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: There was an issue when I brought something up from a workshop without thinking....
    Eliza Madrigal: and afterward apologized to the person
    Susi Alcott: well; admit that it's each ones own free will to chooce if opens
    Eliza Madrigal: It was fine with them... but I didn't see that line til I crossed it
    Susi Alcott: but when to 'open' any other persons privacy; that is so much violated too
    Nymf Hathaway: Nice note, right before the break :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Susi Alcott: I myself leaved few years in such illusion, that people would've get better
    Susi Alcott: but when I started to ponder that more, I was quickly helped back to the reality
    Eliza Madrigal: That's the thing about people... boundaries often aren't so clear....
    Susi Alcott: sry; lived; not leaved
    Susi Alcott: as there was the time that so called 'central Santra' knew all of the peoples things
    Eliza Madrigal: And especially in groups like this one... we are learning so much and sharing so much, that everything can overlap....
    Susi Alcott: cuz she listened to others phone calls
    Eliza Madrigal: I've never heard that term Susi?
    Susi Alcott: and often they made much mess to peoples life
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, big brother
    Susi Alcott: (women taking care of the phone center)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... gossip
    Fael Illyar: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Susi Alcott: so; my illusion was the such kind of person's power had got weaker
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Susi Alcott: hi Yakuzza
    Nymf Hathaway: Honestly... I wouldn't care a bit... its her time she is wasting
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, here is the thing.....
    Eliza Madrigal: in the spectrum, we are all exposed....
    Eliza Madrigal: We can't control what stories other people put us in :)
    Fael Illyar: It's highly likely this conversation we're having is going into more logs than we know of.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: I hope they are getting worth for their effort :)
    Fael Illyar: Well, they probably don't have time to read even nearly everything :
    Susi Alcott: can you Fael tell your ment in finnish ?
    Fael Illyar: ok, I'll IM
    Susi Alcott: ty
    Eliza Madrigal: One phenomenon I've seen here at PaB, is that I often am hesitant to share something... it feels too personal... but once I do it seems silly : ) Was talking with someone about that just yesterday
    Susi Alcott: well; is it silly ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Most of the time in my case, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Whch does not mean that someone couldn't try to use it harmfully....
    Eliza Madrigal: have a lot of experience with that in life..sigh
    Susi Alcott: that I mean
    Eliza Madrigal: But I trust that ultimately... it is FINE...
    Susi Alcott: _/!}_
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: one door closes, another opens
    Eliza Madrigal: or all doors open at once....
    Eliza Madrigal: and we're all standing there together....
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Susi Alcott: are we ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Susi Alcott: how can you know that ?
    Eliza Madrigal: well.... maybe I'll find out different... from here it seems all very clear
    Eliza Madrigal: that we are all connected...
    Fael Illyar: it's often possible to turn even someone's malicious attempt into something good or make it significantly less bad.
    Eliza Madrigal: that another's victories are our victories
    Eliza Madrigal: Very true Fael
    Susi Alcott: well; I asked because I've got very opposite experiencies
    Eliza Madrigal: It sounds as though you have been hurt recently Susi?
    Eliza Madrigal: If so I'm sorry to hear that { }
    Susi Alcott: oh yes
    Susi Alcott: but we can let that also to be
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and your sharing it matters
    Nymf Hathaway: Its art to go through life and keep walking straight up... but these situations can train us as well
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Susi Alcott: they can also destroy much for the rest of the incarnation
    Nymf Hathaway: Depends very much on your flexibility and reality I think
    Nymf Hathaway: When someone hurts you.... its al about them
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Susi Alcott: not when there's not possibility for me to tell the truth of something and other people base there activity on lie and that effects to my life
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Adams!
    Susi Alcott: Hi Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... sometimes deep injury can make way for deep expansion... if you allow it to...similar to what Fael has said... can turn it around.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Fael, Eliza, Nymf, Yajuzza and Susi :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Sorry I need to run into rl :) see you all later, have a nice discussion
    Eliza Madrigal: It is difficult to see that when you feel hurt though
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Nymf, good to see you :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey adams
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye Eliza and others :)
    Susi Alcott: it's to be seen to the liar
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Nymf
    Fael Illyar: See you later Nymf :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and obviously bye nymf :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza.. new look!
    Susi Alcott: as I think that most of the people who comes to PaB are aware of how to deal with this kind of matters for oneself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it was even a bug in the first place so my skin was never entirely black, i logged in with ajaxlife and since then my head got skin color
    Eliza Madrigal: You decided you'd like to have a seeable face :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Adams, we were talking about privacy this morning...
    Adams Rubble is listening. Thanks Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: It does get me thinking about boundaries, and then about Love which we've been talking about a lot thankfully. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: to love someone often means not pushinf their boundaries when they aren't ready for that....
    Eliza Madrigal: or accepting that theirs may be fuzzier or wider than your own...
    Eliza Madrigal: and we have to be honest with each other... say "That's too far!"
    Adams Rubble: Love is just accepting
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal: I find that the toughest part... saying "I was hurt by this..." or " 'You' were wrong but it is okay"
    Fael Illyar: yes, if someone is ready to have their boundaries pushed, then Love is accepting that they want them pushed :)
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh Fael, I love your angles... this can be very true
    Fael Illyar: Eliza, in the guilt-society we have, that's difficult because it generally has the other feeling guilty.
    Susi Alcott: thank you Fael
    Fael Illyar: and knowing that will have ourself feeling guilty as well if we do so we avoid it.
    Susi Alcott: as that is also something that somebody does not easily tell that he/she is hurted
    Adams Rubble: WHO is feeling guilty?
    Eliza Madrigal nods. Most of the time it isn't necessary to say so... but once in a while it seems important
    Eliza Madrigal smiles at Adams
    Susi Alcott: sepcially if the one who hurted, has said something that tells about accusing
    Susi Alcott: it can create the phase that the hurted one can never tell that he/she is hurted
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm... and there are indeed many situations where we want to go back and clarity something misunderstood....
    Eliza Madrigal: and cannot
    Eliza Madrigal: Hard to accept, but necessary
    Fael Illyar: myself, I've done what I can do choose based on what would cause the least hurt in the long run.
    Eliza Madrigal: say more Fael?
    Fael Illyar: but, I do not do the choice by reasoning so can't explain much more :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: understand!
    Fael Illyar: mostly, I want to choose that way so the not reasoning parts of me do the choice accordingly.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes we have to accept that others aren't coming from the same intention as we are... and might be making their choices more strategically.. for short term... can't see the long run yet.
    Adams Rubble: Can we have cpmassion for that?
    Adams Rubble: compassion
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I definitely think so
    Fael Illyar: it takes time to learn, why not?
    Eliza Madrigal: we've all made those sorts of choices, too... from the view we had at the time
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eliza Madrigal: This may sound funny... but sometimes I want to turn off the expanded view
    Susi Alcott: what kind of choices do you speak about Eliza ?
    Fael Illyar: fear often prevents us from seeing anything but the short term.
    Adams Rubble hates to bring up Pema's movie analogy but....
    Eliza Madrigal: I want to pretend I dont see what I see... and cut through something in the 'old way'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: we can step out and look from outside
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... the movie analogy is helpful to seeing through the fear
    Eliza Madrigal: seeing the changing contrasts...
    Eliza Madrigal: letting them move by
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Susi Alcott: what kind of choices do you speak about Eliza ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess Susi....
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm thinking about times in my life when it was difficult to see another way to approach someone who was difficult...
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe I mirrored them, rather than trusting myself...
    Eliza Madrigal: or I fell in line with a group rather than seeing more
    Eliza Madrigal: all kinds of scenarios we grow up with
    Eliza Madrigal: Most of the time, I have to say, I've fallen on the sword
    Adams Rubble: the movie script
    Susi Alcott: but you spoke about some choices; which kind
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... give me moment Susi....
    Susi Alcott: I'm asking because you said that 'we all have made'
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, because I think we all have stepped on other's hearts
    Eliza Madrigal: without necessarily intending to
    Eliza Madrigal: we didn't see them laying out there...
    Eliza Madrigal: or weren't watching where we were going :)
    Eliza Madrigal: those are still choices
    Eliza Madrigal: thoughtlessness
    Susi Alcott: that still does not tell about what kind of choices you spoke about
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm sorry Susi, doing my best :)
    Susi Alcott: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: I think Eliza is talking about the choices that are made by following the script
    Susi Alcott: we can let my question also just to be
    Adams Rubble: what we think is our script
    Adams Rubble: maybe we were handed the wrong one (giggles)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Adams!
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: We fall into defaults... someone else's.... until we expand our views
    Eliza Madrigal: and begin to really choose
    Eliza Madrigal: not just react
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Choose to walk in love, for instance :)
    Eliza Madrigal: however imperfectly
    Susi Alcott: well; that is the choice I know that I have done; to try to do that always
    Eliza Madrigal: Beautiful Susi ... maybe it can be difficult to understand those who aren't there quite yet?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: got to go, bye!
    Adams Rubble: We can understand that someone else may be gfollowing their script too
    Susi Alcott: even I take that it's impossible for a human being to do that all the time
    Adams Rubble: bye Yakuzza, nice meeting you :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_->Yakuzza

    Sharing Private Practices

    Eliza Madrigal: As an aside... I'm being interviewed about meditation today, in SL, wonder what they'll ask
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: "What do you DO?"
    Eliza Madrigal: "How do you DO it?"
    Adams Rubble: does it hurt?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehhe
    Eliza Madrigal: Hahha
    Fael Illyar: Clint?
    Adams Rubble: how do you stay awake?
    Eliza Madrigal: Fael?
    Eliza Madrigal: No... not the person... a girl
    Eliza Madrigal: Adams, yes... maybe!
    Susi Alcott: is the one who's to interview you clint
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, no... a psychologist who has been asking around...
    Eliza Madrigal: I jumped in... why not...may get me thinking.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Susi Alcott: k
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been meditating less online than I did in the beginning
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: there was an initial thrill at sitting with others...
    Eliza Madrigal: and I still enjoy it...
    Eliza Madrigal: but..donno, is changing
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: We go through stages :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been reading a lot about stages of awareness lately...
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure what I think
    Adams Rubble: initial enthusiasm
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Adams Rubble: whoile nuther subject :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: and yet the same...
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh... as is everything
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eliza Madrigal seems to be missing her compartments
    Adams Rubble: periods of struggle and then some insights
    Adams Rubble: we can appreciate the struggle knowing we are going to get out of it
    Eliza Madrigal: very good point, Adams...
    Adams Rubble: so we might just as well enjoy it :)
    Eliza Madrigal: enjoying each step
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: we come out of each struggle a little stronger
    Eliza Madrigal: /nods enthusiastically
    Eliza Madrigal: May I turn off the log...?
    Adams Rubble: fine with me :)
    Fael Illyar: sure :)
    Eliza Madrigal: have a story to share Susi... may be more of what you are looking for?

    Here I shared a story which was still not what Susi hoped for, as I suppose our stories can be deeply individual. I turned the log off only because other personalities are seen in shadows at the periphery. I have not the same comfort level as Anne, who has also written:

    "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

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