2009.05.26 13:00 - Meditation Blues

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.


    We get onto the subject of meditation. Funny how it can come in diferent disguises

    Mickorod Renard: nice to see u back QT
    Qt Core: ty, i'm most distracted these day, by RL or just laziness ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: well, I am busy in rl too,,but here keeps me sane
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: some light relief
    Qt Core: i know, i hate when i don't like the only things that would help
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I understood that QT,,but no worries
    Qt Core: the most nervous/troubled you are the best meditation would be for you, but being nervous you cant't oe even won't do it
    Mickorod Renard: ahhhh,,I see, yes a bit of a paradox
    Gaya Ethaniel rummages her wardrobe ...
    Qt Core: just an example, i don't meditate
    Gaya Ethaniel: SL keeps you sane Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I dont meditate either..i am a bit to preoccupied
    Mickorod Renard: well, its more sane on sl thn in my rl
    Fortune Crystal: Why don't you both meditate? My question being what exactly does it mean to meditate?
    Fortune Crystal: Is it supoosed to be hard or something?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: well, i suppose i do think about things very deeply,,which is meditating,,but i do not do formal meditation
    Qt Core: don't thnk it would be so hard, i don't meditate in the same way i do not (anymore) go to the park walking or to the gym
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
    Fortune Crystal: I see. got it
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i do not find the time or the setting to meditate
    Qt Core: i never really tried it, the most similar thing i ever did was some yoga
    Qt Core: (if my english may sound a little strange, Fortune it is as i'm italian)
    Fortune Crystal: You sound fine Qt
    Mickorod Renard: Qt, your english is superb
    Fortune Crystal: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... need to re-log, chat lines are missing brb
    Qt Core: sometime some italian wordings slips in and may be misunderstood
    Mickorod Renard: c u soon
    Mickorod Renard: I read quite a bit,,and find I have dropped into some sort of meditation during sentences
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Fortune Crystal: why can't being on SL be considered a form of meditation. I don't believe in formal meditation
    Fortune Crystal: meditation makes you relax, so does SL
    Mickorod Renard: yes, that is a good point..and I agree
    sophia Placebo: greetings all
    Fortune Crystal: Hi sophia
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Sophie
    Qt Core: here and when chatting with a couple friends i notice long, nice silences there i find a calmness i like, may we call it meditation ?
    Qt Core: hi sophia
    Fortune Crystal: certainly, Qt

    Gaya Ethaniel: Something wrong with SL for me today ...
    Fortune Crystal: Qt, on SL there are also so called "meditaion groups" that gather together in serene looking lands and walk around or sit on a cushion and that is considered meditation on SL. So talking with friends and the silences there certainly count
    Mickorod Renard: oww,,poor gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm on a green plain alone atm ... will stay put and read what comes up in the chat window.
    Qt Core: and that is strange as often i find i've got some form of ADD and can't stay put (mentally speaking) for more than 30 sec
    Mickorod Renard: ok Gaya
    sophia Placebo: ADD?
    Qt Core: attendion deficit disease
    Fortune Crystal: I don't think that meditation has to be staying put. Meditation could be savoring a yummy piece of pie but concentrating on that pie and not five thousand other things as you are chewing :-)
    sophia Placebo: ok
    Mickorod Renard: defecit..not decease
    Qt Core: ok, sorry
    Mickorod Renard: sorry,,what is it Ara?
    Mickorod Renard: disorder
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: your spelling is better than mine QT
    Fortune Crystal: Does Attention Deficit Disorder really exist? Who said we are supposed to be still and quiet in life. There is lots of fun active things to do while we are still alive, why name a disease/disorder for something we do?
    Fortune Crystal: just a thought
    Qt Core: that is the problem, Fortune, i'm a multitasker at heart
    arabella Ella nods to Fortune
    arabella Ella: and today's culture makes us more adrenaline junkies somehow it seems to me
    arabella Ella: the media being one culprit
    Fortune Crystal: nodding
    Qt Core: the cellphone is another ;-)
    Fortune Crystal: :-)
    arabella Ella: yes Qt my cellphone just went kaputt ... and i am lost without it
    Qt Core: and email another
    Mickorod Renard: that was a point I was making once,the stimulating overload of today
    Fortune Crystal: elaborate please Mickrod, I like the topic
    Mickorod Renard: i think our gadgets and sciences have ran ahead of our natural ability to take it in
    Mickorod Renard: an inbalence in conciousness
    sophia Placebo: intersting idea mick
    arabella Ella: yes and as a result we have lost our natural contact with all that is natural


    I suspect QT hopes AI will soon be able to take over the role of meditating for him

    Qt Core: i agree...even if i'd like a wifi connection to wikipedia and google right in my brain ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: and more
    sophia Placebo: hehe qt
    arabella Ella: we will have that soon Qt rest assured :)
    Fortune Crystal: lol
    Qt Core: (do you know the start of Hyperion by Simmons, i liked that)
    Mickorod Renard: no?
    arabella Ella: no
    Fortune Crystal: no
    Mickorod Renard: tell us more qt
    Qt Core: it is a sf book and people has something like that, a connection to the internet in their head
    arabella Ella: cool
    Qt Core: the best use was direct democracy, you just have to connect to the "parliament website"
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Qt Core: to partecipate to the discussion and voting
    arabella Ella: do u have the full title and name of author Qt pls?
    Mickorod Renard: whats that illness,,turetts?
    sophia Placebo: funny thing is re ara: when i first came to sl i joined a for fun only group and were testing all kinds of sl silliness and gestures in a -meditaiting sim - lol and poeple there were angery cause they went to that sim to -meditiate , at that time i wasnt sure about the sl meditaion concept , seems odd at that moment
    sophia Placebo: sorry for inturrupt
    Mickorod Renard: np
    Fortune Crystal: no, I like your point Sophia. Is there etiquette on SL? You interrupted on SL but people interrupt all the time in RL when meditating or something else so why should they have cared so much. SL is RL after all
    Mickorod Renard: its not like u block out others coms
    Qt Core: first book : Hyperion by Dan Simmons (a series of four, there is time travel, some AI stuff and a lot of religion stuff (mostly in the less good sequels
    sophia Placebo: sl is rl plus the mute button
    Fortune Crystal: lol
    Mickorod Renard: sounds good Qt
    arabella Ella: thanks QT
    arabella Ella: do u know the name of the AI one pls?
    Qt Core: ?
    Mickorod Renard: hyperion I think Ara
    arabella Ella: i thought you said one of the dan simmons books is on artificial intelligence or did i misunderstand Qt?
    Qt Core: in this book there are some AI involved
    arabella Ella: ok ty
    Mickorod Renard: not sure if Ai will ever get on a level playing ground with human

    arabella Ella: but micko AI surpasses humans where memory is concerned ... recall
    Qt Core: seeing movies and reading books more than a playing ground it will be a battle ground ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,but on a thinking level
    arabella Ella: and AI could easily complement our human capacities
    arabella Ella: well ... that leads to the question ... what is thinking?
    sophia Placebo: someone once said that if the robots and computers rule the world it would be much better place , cant really trust machiens to that level
    Mickorod Renard: no arguement there
    arabella Ella: and surely memory is part of thinking
    Fortune Crystal: good question Ara

    Mickorod Renard: I think the human mind works on a quantum level

    Qt Core: AI as "agents" doing the boring part of intellectual works sound noce to me
    Fortune Crystal: explain further please Microd
    Qt Core: nice*
    Mickorod Renard: multi universe
    arabella Ella: yes Qt, cleaning, routine tasks, boring stuff ... would be brilliant
    arabella Ella: but we already use our phones and laptops for memory storage
    arabella Ella: and the web too
    Mickorod Renard: well,,it creates future scenarios so as to make decisions and then runs back in time and chooses the likely best option

    Qt Core: i was thinking more researching information, doint the low level math and such, Ara
    sophia Placebo: agree qt and the dangerouse physical works too
    Fortune Crystal: but once we store the things in memory, most of the time we forget we have it/forget to use it later
    Mickorod Renard: the human mind creates multi universe scenarios every second,,picks one and then dumps the memory
    sophia Placebo: arabella i guess we just replace the papers in case of storage memory card of laptop
    Qt Core: another sf books very interesting about this AI/agent topic "Accelerando" by Charles Stross
    arabella Ella: if you take memory ... just imagine how much help robots could be for people with dementia
    Mickorod Renard: not sure it would Ara
    arabella Ella: especially due to the age crises with more old people than young ones
    Mickorod Renard: folks with dementia find it hard to relate to other people
    arabella Ella: surely most of you remember the age of virtual pets when people even committed suicide when their vitual pet died
    Fortune Crystal: so do normal memory people (finding hard to relate to other people)
    arabella Ella nods


    Someone go next door and tell that AI dog to be quiet, and watch you dont tread in any piles of nuts and bolts

    sophia Placebo: vertual pets?
    arabella Ella: yes
    kenji Pookes: PEt rock
    Mickorod Renard: true,,but its often a critical problem,,with carers and sufferers
    arabella Ella: cant remember the name ... there was a brand name ... anyone remember it? my memory is ... going
    arabella Ella: they were like small key chains with virtual pets
    Mickorod Renard: erm
    arabella Ella: tamagocci
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I had one
    arabella Ella: got it
    arabella Ella: japanese
    Mickorod Renard: we had a diferent name
    Mickorod Renard: like digimon
    arabella Ella: of course micko u r brits ....
    arabella Ella smiles
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Qt Core: tamagoci even here in Italy
    arabella Ella: yes
    Qt Core: as a virtual pet i prefer a linux distro ;-)
    arabella Ella: cool
    Mickorod Renard: are u on linux qt,,now?
    Qt Core: no, not now, have some graphic card [rrpblem with SL
    Qt Core: on linux
    Mickorod Renard: I see
    Qt Core: cat't even write about it ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: you wouldnt recomend it for sl then?
    Qt Core: to someone with my exact setup no
    Mickorod Renard: ;)


    Ooops ,back onto meditation


    Mickorod Renard: I am envious that so many here can focus during the day to do the meditation

    sophia Placebo: in meditaion dont focus on focus
    Mickorod Renard: like the bit that we are supposed to do..
    Fortune Crystal: I agree with sophia, focus on being.
    Mickorod Renard: so many seconds every 15 mins
    Fortune Crystal: in the now
    sophia Placebo: choose a nice spot , by nice i mean a place you feel like would sit in and warp on yourself
    Mickorod Renard: hours go bye and I havnt even thought of anything except what i am doing
    sophia Placebo: choose a time when the demands are to minimum
    sophia Placebo: day or night
    arabella Ella: mmmm i wish i could ...
    Fortune Crystal: well, that is a form of meditation Mickrod. Now just switch to thing about what you are doing and also just happen to be doing something pleasurable
    Qt Core: i'd like to be able to think only about what i'm doing at the moment, mick
    sophia Placebo: nothing obligatory , not time nor place nor thoughts nor yourself
    Mickorod Renard: mmmmmm,,i dream of that sometimes
    sophia Placebo: hehe mick for real?
    Mickorod Renard: especially the pleasurable bit
    Fortune Crystal: dreaming is a nice reality break
    Mickorod Renard: I used to long for the ability to not know what i was doing
    Mickorod Renard: I think I must have made it a habit
    arabella Ella: brings to mind Pink Floyd and comfortably numb?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fortune Crystal: Perhaps, instead of knowing, one could focus on the feeling. Let the mind take a break and just be
    Mickorod Renard: I seem to have formed an ability to run several lines of thought at the same time
    Mickorod Renard: so i do a sort of dream, meditation whilst still doing other things
    arabella Ella: do you think it is something we learn as a result of SL mick?
    Fortune Crystal: good question
    Mickorod Renard: no,,just out of a hectic life
    arabella Ella: ok
    Mickorod Renard: like when u drive long distance
    arabella Ella: cos i think SL does help us to build the skill of multitasking even more somehow
    Mickorod Renard: I have to aggree there
    sophia Placebo: i find being out doors helpfull in bringing mind calmity
    Mickorod Renard: agree
    Fortune Crystal: I agree with Ara. In addition to multitasking, SL can really help you decide whether or not you want to interact with someone in RL, you really begin to wish there was a mute button.
    arabella Ella nod
    Mickorod Renard: yes, my main ability to take in calm and being,,is when i drive to work
    Qt Core: the daily fight with traffic ?
    Mickorod Renard: through lovely countryside
    Mickorod Renard: and,,,i no longer worry about rush,,or time
    Fortune Crystal: SL is very good about messing with one's concept of time. Unless one happens to live in california west coast time zone
    Fortune Crystal: kind of freeing
    Mickorod Renard: the tunnel vision of projection vanishes,,and the light floods in
    Qt Core: timezones plus DST... quite a mess in stay in touch with peop;e and events
    arabella Ella: why california Fortune?
    arabella Ella: dont they have to work too :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,,and its light on sl and then u get up and its dark in rl
    Fortune Crystal: isn't that the time that SL time is based on
    Fortune Crystal: pacific standard time
    arabella Ella: yes it is but it seems lots of ppl from other continents on line at different times too
    sophia Placebo: i keep it midday all time in sl
    Fortune Crystal: going off of Mickrod's comment of light and dark. I went outside once and was shocked to see moisture dropping from the sky. rain.
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    arabella Ella: in RL u mean ... there is rain on SL too u know
    Fortune Crystal: Rl yes
    Fortune Crystal: never knew that
    Fortune Crystal: were/ how is there rain
    sophia Placebo: :)
    arabella Ella: just like there is snow or mist or whatever
    arabella Ella: a simulation
    Qt Core: sometime in rl i feel i'm still in SL
    Mickorod Renard: I have stood in it on sl,,but never found where i can buy it
    Fortune Crystal: I agree with Qt
    Fortune Crystal: but SL is RL afterall :-)
    Qt Core: especially as since some months we have a new trolley service here in rl
    arabella Ella: well if i may ask ... do you think SL is like a mirror to our real selves?
    arabella Ella: or a curtain which hides our real selves?
    Fortune Crystal: I think it is our real selves Ara
    Qt Core: and i saw so many simulation of it in meetings fpr the public and it took so much time to build it that i think it still is virtual
    Mickorod Renard: maybe more our real selves
    Fortune Crystal: nod to Mickrod
    arabella Ella nods
    Qt Core: more a channel than a mirror
    Fortune Crystal: nod to Qt
    arabella Ella: a channel?
    sophia Placebo: for me sl is like a magical door where you open to another world , close the door ,back to diffrent time dimension


    OK,whos using a filter?

    Mickorod Renard: it depends whether u choose to operate filters in sl,,like in rl
    Mickorod Renard: if u drop the filter,,then u r more real
    arabella Ella: filters ... like masks?
    Fortune Crystal: good point Mickrod. I also agree with Sophia
    Qt Core: a mirror it is something out of me, my avatar is part of me
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    arabella Ella: so do you feel your avatar is like a puppet on a string ... and you pull the strings?
    Qt Core: more than a puppet
    arabella Ella: say more pls if u could?
    Mickorod Renard: I no longer think of my avi,,its a projection
    Qt Core: same here mick
    Fortune Crystal: I also think that my avatar is part of me
    sophia Placebo: a never ending custom party :)
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: projection as in of me
    arabella Ella: however i find SL like a mirror as i find i get to know myself ... my real self ... more as a result of my interactions with others here
    Qt Core: it is not a full projection as for different "occasion" i may project different part of myself
    Mickorod Renard: mmm?
    arabella Ella: other people reveal aspects of myself to me
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    arabella Ella: so it is like looking into a mirror
    Mickorod Renard: say more Ara?
    arabella Ella: i learn more about myself from my interactions with others here
    Fortune Crystal: nice point ara. I get to learn about myself in terms of what rules do I follow in RL that are actually really not very beneficial to me etc
    Mickorod Renard: I see Ara
    arabella Ella: perhaps because it is easier to be honest when we are here ... i dunno
    Fortune Crystal: yes, much easier to be honest. Ignore people not because you hate them or whatever but because you are having to much fun doing what you are doing to accomodate other people
    Qt Core: yes, and sadlky i've more often discovered defects than good things about myself
    arabella Ella: and about rules, Fortune ... it is interesting to see if our avi follows the same rules in SL as we do in RL ... or not ... and that says a lot about our real inner selves i feel
    Fortune Crystal: me too Qt
    Mickorod Renard: the chat log still puts pressure on people to filter their comments
    arabella Ella: yes i dont like being on air myself
    Qt Core: i usually think about that after, much after the session end
    arabella Ella: but Qt u dont need to be so judgemental about yourself
    sophia Placebo: arabella , dont you think so , jedgemntal about slef?
    Qt Core: than i promise to filter myself more the next time... but luckily i forgot it before the next session starts ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: if you do become judgemental,,you should see it as a good thing to be able to identify things and possibly address them
    arabella Ella: i dont think we should be too judgemental about ourselves, i feel we need to be more flexible in our taking and often need to take things in our stride
    sophia Placebo: exactly mick
    Mickorod Renard: sl, in my opinion,,helps me to feel more relaxed about my weaknesses
    sophia Placebo: too judgmental as in too obsssesive i agree arabella
    Mickorod Renard: I am much better now with confidence than pre sl
    Fortune Crystal: Often times I'll realize that I do something unusual on SL (go counter to a rule/habit that I have in RL) and then Ill try the unusual thing in RL and find nobody really even notices that I changed my action. so SL helps me find a "weakness" or whatever you call it, try it out on SL,try it out on RL and then learn from that.
    Fortune Crystal: Me too, better with confidence in after starting SL
    Mickorod Renard: thats a good point fortune
    Mickorod Renard: about using sl as a platform for learning about urself
    Mickorod Renard: in more ways than one

    arabella Ella: so Fortune if i may ask are you in the USA or in Europe?

    Fortune Crystal: USA
    arabella Ella: ok
    arabella Ella: i think i may speak for the rest of us ... all in europe

    Qt Core: why ara, it is so nice to see everyone playing bongoes ;-)

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    Originally written on 00:08, 28 May 2009

    The above is a funny link I was reading before reading this log. Had to laugh. -Eliza
    Posted 08:52, 9 Apr 2010
    Originally written on 18:19, 29 May 2009
    thanks Eliza, that was terrific - and quite familiar somehow ???
    Posted 08:52, 9 Apr 2010
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