2009.05.30 13:00 - Addiction or interaction

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.


    Wester Kiranov: hi 3d, ade, and of course squee

    Adelene Dawner: hi ^.^

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks

    Fael Illyar: Hi Wester, Three, Ade :)

    Arisia Vita: Hi all

    Adelene Dawner: So how is everybody today?

    Fael Illyar: I'm well, how are you Ade? :)

    Adelene Dawner: Good. ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Mickorod.

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Fael, Ade

    Mickorod Renard: Three and Ariiiiiii

    Fael Illyar: Hi Mick :)

    Wester Kiranov: hi mick

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Webster,,didnt see u there

    Wester Kiranov: I'm very good at hiding in plain sight ;)

    Mickorod Renard: he he he

    Fael Illyar smiles.

    Mickorod Renard: hiya tarmel

    Mickorod Renard: all comes down to observation

    Tarmel Udimo: Hi everyone

    Mickorod Renard: thats a very pretty outfit again Fael

    Tarmel Udimo: How are you Mick?

    Mickorod Renard: fine thankyou, and you?..the sun has finaly arived here

    Tarmel Udimo: yes its spring for you all

    Mickorod Renard: its suprising how the light brightens the spirit up

    Tarmel Udimo: yes

    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you Mick.'

    Mickorod Renard: there is something obvious that I have noticed recently,,that may have something to do with the well being feeling re BEIng etc

    Tarmel Udimo: yes?

    Mickorod Renard: it seems to inolve light

    Tarmel Udimo: nods

    Mickorod Renard: like for example,,there are references to,,no head

    Mickorod Renard: and the relaxing

    Tarmel Udimo: nods

    Mickorod Renard: when I feel I have obtained a state off well being,,in these sorts of matters

    Tarmel Udimo: nods

    Mickorod Renard: what is also obvious is that i have allowed more light into my visionary range

    Tarmel Udimo: so things seem lighter or filled with light?

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,both..more so that its not so dark

    Tarmel Udimo: nice place to be

    Mickorod Renard: even relaxing ones eyebrows has the same effect

    Tarmel Udimo: hummmm yes its amazing what we carry around with us

    Tarmel Udimo: ahh Squee is back!

    Adelene Dawner: hehehehehe

    Adelene Dawner: (for the log: Squee: Giving a person a high IQ is kind of like giving a person a million dollars. A few individuals will do something interesting with it, but most will piss it away on trinkets and pointless exercises. )

    Tarmel Udimo: nods

    Tarmel Udimo: so it sounds like things are shifting for you Mick, from the last time I saw you which was ageeeees ago:)

    Mickorod Renard: well,,I cope well,,considering I am in the middle of much upheaval

    Tarmel Udimo: upheaval? or have you already explained?

    Mickorod Renard: well,,not much to say,,just the usual life changes

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Ara

    Mickorod Renard: and growing teen boy moving homes and all

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara

    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone

    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Ara

    arabella Ella is rezzing

    Tarmel Udimo: everyone is very quiet today?

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,maybe we need a topic

    Mickorod Renard: any idea's Ara?

    arabella Ella: ok

    arabella Ella: shall we discuss

    arabella Ella: addiction to SL

    arabella Ella: with its good and bad points?

    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe

    Mickorod Renard: could do

    arabella Ella: just a suggestion

    arabella Ella: do any of you here feel you are 'addicted' to SL

    arabella Ella: and if u do is it positive or negative and why?

    arabella Ella: (just suggestions)

    Mickorod Renard: I think I am,,in a positive way

    Adelene Dawner: No moreso than I'm addicted to breathing or eating. In other words yes, but there's a reason for it. :)

    Mickorod Renard: my reason,,in part,,is that television is so boring

    arabella Ella: are you ok with giving us your reason Adelene?

    Tarmel Udimo: nods to Mick

    Tarmel Udimo: but there's a reason for it. :)> Ade?

    Adelene Dawner: Well, my job is here, my friends are here, most of the things I'm interested in doing are here or on the 'net in general...

    arabella Ella: do you mean your job is on SL Adelene? or on the web or PC in general?

    Adelene Dawner: You could say that most people are 'addicted' to living where they currently live for much the same reason. And my job is primarily on SL, though we're expanding to Opensim as well.

    arabella Ella: oh that sounds intruiging Ade

    arabella Ella: some of us who have to seriously limit our time here

    arabella Ella: sometimes wish we could justify longer periods on SL

    Fael Illyar: People who stay in SL, do so because they get something they need out of SL.

    Mickorod Renard: very true

    Fael Illyar: people who don't, don't stick around

    arabella Ella: yes Fael but ...

    arabella Ella: when u are addicted to something

    Fael Illyar: the flaws of SL's system make sure of that.

    arabella Ella: like internet addiction

    Mickorod Renard: one could say the same about drink and drugs though

    Wester Kiranov: the thing I need on SL is this group of people

    arabella Ella: are you still getting something out of it or is it then getting something out of you?

    arabella Ella nods to Wester, agree

    Mickorod Renard: interaction with likeminded people is my drug

    Fael Illyar: I'd be interested to know if there's anyone whose reason to stay in SL doesn't involve other people in SL :)

    arabella Ella: yes i too feel quite certain interaction with other people is key to our involvement in SL

    arabella Ella: but if you read some blogs or discussion boards

    arabella Ella: it seems that some people even end up acting sick just to spend more time on SL

    Fael Illyar: and ... overall, I feel it's a misnomer to say SL addiction. You're not addicted to the system. You're addicted to the people in here.

    Mickorod Renard: thats a good one squee

    Adelene Dawner: (Squee: Shrinking away from death is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.)

    arabella Ella: so Fael ... if people are addicted to chat groups ... they are addicted to the people?

    arabella Ella: not to the medium and what it gives them?

    Wester Kiranov: but this group is not defined by its people, it's defined by its vision. and that is what attracts me

    Fael Illyar: yes, what else?

    Fael Illyar: it's very much defined by the people :)

    Fael Illyar: the shared vision

    arabella Ella: well most of us know that different people experience different emotions on SL and on other media too

    Fael Illyar: vision is something people have.

    Wester Kiranov: the vision is filled out by the people

    Fael Illyar: different people ,different vision :)

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i am sure,,as having been addicted to games consoles in the past,,that dialog with real SL people is infinately better

    Wester Kiranov: if there was just a vision nothing would happen

    Wester Kiranov: if the was just the people nothing unified would happen

    arabella Ella: yes Mick that is what i meant ... why do ppl get addicted to games consoles ... same way they get addicted to SL ... for whatever emotions it gives them

    Mickorod Renard: when i came to SL I knew nothing of its content

    arabella Ella: i must admit SL is a huge learning curve at the start

    Mickorod Renard: well,,this initially makes me think of escape Ara

    arabella Ella: yes ... was just thinking of that ... a form of escapism from RL for some maybe?

    Mickorod Renard: curiosity was my purpose

    Threedee Shepherd: There is a fundamental difference between the socially "adictive" nature of SL and same online gaming or television, or ever reading books. Social interaction with friends requires a certain amount of maintenance activity--"avatar-to-avatar" time--in order to be sustained. this sets some kind of minimums on how much time one needs to share with either groups or friends, as well as how many such interactions you can realistically have.

    arabella Ella: to an ideal world

    Wester Kiranov: escape is definitely my reason for doing video games

    Mickorod Renard: which then opened up a platform for my escape

    Fael Illyar pretty much completely abandoned video games after finding SL.

    Mickorod Renard: but the real attraction for staying is the people

    Mickorod Renard: and the dialog

    Mickorod Renard: IMO

    Fael Illyar: also books...

    Mickorod Renard: I still read tons

    Fael Illyar: Well, I didn't read that often :)

    Wester Kiranov: I read more, but that's because I found bookmooch at about the same time as SL

    Mickorod Renard: sl has improved my keyboard skills

    arabella Ella: ok then if i may attempt to give this discussion a bit of focus

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,;)

    arabella Ella: could we each give one or two reasons as to why we find SL most beneficial?

    Mickorod Renard: ok

    arabella Ella: me ... mixing with people from all over the world on an equal basis with no baggage

    arabella Ella: intelligent people too :)

    Fael Illyar: Allows me to have a group of friends I can spend time with, no matter where I am in RL :)

    Mickorod Renard: doesnt cost money (much),,and saves going out in the cold

    Fael Illyar: oh and is much cheaper than spending time with friends in RL :)

    Mickorod Renard: ;)

    arabella Ella: allows you to discuss any topic under the sun

    Mickorod Renard: and,,,i look handsome

    arabella Ella: with ppl who have no agendas to hide

    arabella Ella: oh yes we are all barbies and kens here

    Mickorod Renard: he he he

    arabella Ella: and others are a mirror to me too

    Threedee Shepherd: All of the above re friends and dialog plus convenience--availabel 24/7, no need to dress in RL, etc.

    arabella Ella: no feeling cold, no bad weather, no flu, no cleaning or cooking ... etc

    Mickorod Renard: and,,I can have a huge ..... if I wanted to

    Mickorod Renard: like cup of tea

    Mickorod Renard: and car

    Wester Kiranov: It's abit like the Gods realm in Buddhism, isn't it?

    Mickorod Renard: and house

    arabella Ella: i enjoy flying and exploring new innovative sims too

    Fael Illyar: Hi Scath :)

    Mickorod Renard: hi scath

    arabella Ella: and of course discussing issues and experience at PaB and Kira too

    arabella Ella: Hiya Scath

    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Scath:)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello all:)

    Wester Kiranov: hi scath

    Wester Kiranov: Has anybody here seen Wings of Desire / Der Himmel über Berlin? This conversation reminds me of that film a bit

    Mickorod Renard: learning is the clue

    Mickorod Renard: no,,whats it about?

    Wester Kiranov: esp the part where one of the angels says he wants to be a human being so he can have black hands from reading the newspaper

    Scathach Rhiadra: I have seen it, Wim Wender?

    arabella Ella: i havent seen it

    Tarmel Udimo: yes Wim Wender

    Fael Illyar smiles.

    Wester Kiranov: It's about two angels and one of them wants to be a human being. in Berlin with wall. very arty.

    Mickorod Renard: I saw a play recently,,where some people get a wish ,,given to them for anything...

    Mickorod Renard: sounds similar

    Mickorod Renard: opens up all sorts of moral dilemna's

    Fael Illyar wonders how many peope would wish for money if they got a wish for anything...

    Wester Kiranov: I should see it again - it's sooo long ago

    Wester Kiranov: the film

    Fael Illyar: (and how many would realize that in practise, they would be taking from everyone else by doing so)

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    arabella Ella: shall we ask Fael ... part of the beauty of SL ... ask what you wish

    Threedee Shepherd: I would wish for health and basic security of food, clothing, shelter and work.

    arabella Ella: so what would you wish for if you had a last wish?

    Mickorod Renard: and maybe happiness is a much more valid ask

    arabella Ella: one wish please ... Threedee that is four of five :)

    Fael Illyar: It's been a long time when I felt I could answer the question of what I'd wish for.

    Adelene Dawner: I'd wish for some kind of skill or ability, but I don't know which one exactly.

    Mickorod Renard: you may already have one

    Fael Illyar: It's so easy to shoot yourself in the foot when you get a wish.

    Adelene Dawner: More than one, but more are always better :)

    Tarmel Udimo: why would getting what you wish for be taking it away from others?

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Mickorod Renard: he he

    Fael Illyar: Tarmel, if it's money, it would because of the way money works.

    Tarmel Udimo: isn't the universe one of abundance?

    Fael Illyar: the more there is, the less valuable each bill is.

    Threedee Shepherd: I say to the genie, basic security. The thoughtful genie asks me for a definition, I reply physical safety and health and secure work, it really is all one thing, a basic concept

    Mickorod Renard: to make me happy would involve making lots of people around the world better off and well and safe

    arabella Ella: the thing is many of us seem to ask for huge conceptual leaps ... like i would wish for a simple and peaceful life

    Threedee Shepherd: Of course, the wish I have extends to everyone or it is not really possible.

    arabella Ella: but in reality ... what do i mean ... and it is so difficult to answer

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,it is

    arabella Ella: vague non material concepts are so difficult to define

    Mickorod Renard: you could ask to be loved,,but that may result in being suffocted

    Fael Illyar: perhaps better to ask to be able to love?

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i need to do that

    arabella Ella: what would you ask for Fael?

    arabella Ella: and Tarmen?

    arabella Ella: Tarmel?

    Fael Illyar: as usual, I'm finding it difficult to come up with a wish :)

    Tarmel Udimo: I wish that we all get what we wish for:)

    arabella Ella: cool Tarmel

    arabella Ella: :)

    Tarmel Udimo: :)

    Wester Kiranov: I would probably ask for a fulfilling job, as that's the thing most missing from my life right now

    Threedee Shepherd: When I hear stories of people in real life that are in "difficult situations' what is usually at the core is lack of physical or mental health, or lack of basic sustenance.

    arabella Ella: ehrm ... i got a vacancy right now Wester ...

    Tarmel Udimo: Wakeley?

    Wester Kiranov: cool - hope it doesn't involve too many tyoing skills ;)

    Wester Kiranov: * typing - I din't do that on purpose!

    arabella Ella: :)

    Wester Kiranov: In the neverending story, the main character gets all his wishes, but then forgets it has ever been different

    Wester Kiranov: lovely book, awful movie

    Mickorod Renard: he he he

    arabella Ella: i reckon that is how we as humans are ... we become accustomed over time to novelty so it may risk becoming boring?

    Tarmel Udimo: haven't seen that movie

    Threedee Shepherd: The real world that we seem to have abstracted from the possibilities of being is an insane, illogical, chaotic unsafe place that does not care at all about any person (or thing). That is aharsh starting point for wishes.

    Mickorod Renard: but u know,,most peoples stories are much the same

    Wester Kiranov: don't - read the book instead (tarmel)

    Tarmel Udimo: OK Wester - ty for the tip:)

    arabella Ella: why are most humans never satisfied with what they have and they always want more or different?

    Adelene Dawner: Actually, you're thinking of the second (or was it third) movie - the first one was much nbetter, and it's the only one that was based on hte book at all. The book is definitely awesome though.

    Wester Kiranov: I actually only saw the first one

    Threedee Shepherd: I think it may be because the ability to think is inherently tied to curiosity, which is inherently tied to newness.

    Adelene Dawner: That wasn't a plot point in the first one. I assume you're thinking of the one where the memories were in those balls in the machine?

    arabella Ella: but then Threedee, people also seem to be resistance to change that comes about as a result of innovation?

    Wester Kiranov: no, but it was in the book, in the second half

    arabella Ella: (like many couch potatoes)

    Adelene Dawner: ah, I only got to read the book once, and don't remember much of the second half other than that it was awesome.

    Threedee Shepherd: true, arabella, there is a balance that is driven in part by safety and the apparent sanity of the known.

    arabella Ella nods

    Adelene Dawner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nev...e_Next_Chapter

    Adelene Dawner: (Squee: Believe in things because they are likely true. There is really no other honest reason to believe.)

    Tarmel Udimo: the reality is that if we wanted to we could make some of our wishes that involve ourself anyway come true

    Tarmel Udimo: wishes are just that wishes:)

    arabella Ella: i think what is important is to have a positive outlook on life and to be happy with little pleasures

    Mickorod Renard: I have to leave,,wish you all well

    arabella Ella: bye Mick

    Fael Illyar: See you later Mick :)

    Tarmel Udimo: bye Mick

    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeeeeeee

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Mick

    Wester Kiranov: there is a really lovely sequence of wishes in the book, but i don't want to spoil it for youo by telling what they are

    Wester Kiranov: bye mickey

    Tarmel Udimo: OK

    arabella Ella: i must go too nite all

    Fael Illyar: See you later ara :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ara

    arabella Ella: thanks for the chat!

    Tarmel Udimo: Bye Ara

    Wester Kiranov: cu later

    Adelene Dawner: We have been here a while :)

    Wester Kiranov: Yeah, I will leave too. bye all.

    Fael Illyar: See you later Wester :)

    Tarmel Udimo: bye wester

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Wester

    Scathach Rhiadra: and me too, bye all:)

    Tarmel Udimo: bye Scath

    Adelene Dawner: Time to get back to work, Three-Luv?

    Fael Illyar: See you later Tarmel :)

    Fael Illyar: See you later Ade, Three :)

    Adelene Dawner: cya, Fa.

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