2009.06.01 01:00 - Happiness is a decision

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

    Yakuzza, sorry I had to leave on time but hope to hear/read more from you again soon. And thank you those often bear my ranting ^^

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you are in Japan?
    Gaya Ethaniel: No in UK
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or in Europe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we have a holiday today
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah lovely :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fine, I already took a walk
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but I am out of coffee :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right now I am thinking what I should plan for today
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are you reading something?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm .... what do you mean?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in general, for example i have a couple of books i just read partly right now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and I always think how to get back to read at least one completely
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example walden two, then since for example playing as being and mediation made me more curious about psychosomatic again
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is psychosomatic?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a book called psychosomatische intelligenz denken und fühlen
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how our mental states influence our body
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that is even an academic field
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds interesting :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and not just a philosophical esothericl one
    Gaya Ethaniel: Any interesting findings?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic_medicine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just reading and I hope to find more references into psychologie
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I always have a problem finding what is correct information and how can i know that wha i read is true
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in some way I even believe that happiness is a decision
    Gaya Ethaniel listens.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that doesn´t always work
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I dunno, I am still searching and try to avoid, lightworkers"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Dalai Lama said he gets up each morning and decides to be happy :) It works mostly for me too.
    Gaya Ethaniel: His exact words were "determined to have a good day" I think ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s complicated in so far that i think about how far do I need unhappiness to motivate myself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that is also blurry
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm ... ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, I wouldn´t try to talk about something like that when I am absolutely clear
    Gaya Ethaniel: You use feeling of unhappiness as a motivation to do something?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I am very unhappy about for example that I never studied and I really want to learn to communicate and to reflect the issues I believed brought me where I am right now
    Gaya Ethaniel: That sounds very positive to me :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, feeling unsatisfied can lead to wanting to change positively for sure.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s complicated there are nearly no things that make me really happy except when i am more successful and rational in what I am communicating
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example I am not very happy with what I am doing at work
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or what I reached through school
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but I knew from the past that even games could make me happy or television *rofl*
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: obviously not really
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but at least we can fall into something for a short while
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and escape from reality but there is nearly nothing in reality that makes me feel happy
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry to hear that Yakuzza.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I am not extremly depressed i believe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least not anymore
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've read somewhere that some of us are less able to feel positive emotions.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I really prefer to be more stoic but i am also scared to feel happiness about the wrong situations and the wrong goals
    Gaya Ethaniel: Due to prolonged period of unhappiness in early life for example.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I think even much about what values I should have
    Gaya Ethaniel: You know Yakuzza ...? Sometimes, it's better not to think too much. Pausing, reflecting PaBing all these are really good in that sense.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pema :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, hi Yakuzza!
    Pema Pera: Yes, Gaya, Thinking too much can be a real problem . . . (just overhearing the last part of your conversation :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s complicated for example even gossiping is fun sometimes but when you joke about philosophers you might close yourself to that what they are saying
    Gaya Ethaniel nods and smiles.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so one of my problems is that I know that everyone in my environment was joking about surreal thinking philosophers and how out of the world they are but nobody even understands the language
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello sophia :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and now I read about restricted and elaborated code
    Pema Pera: Hi Sophia!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and how our social background nearly determines our thinking
    sophia Placebo: hi Pema:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and I don´t believe in what I believed in and I even think that I was too far on the nature side on the nature nurture debate even when I didn´t even know that there is one
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi sophia
    sophia Placebo: hi yak :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you feel you doubt everything and this is causing some confusion Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I doubt much yes, and I don´t know what I should believe in.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: So it´s complicated to understand how we come to truth.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: And then we are already in a field of epistemology
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and that field is 2300 years old and not even closed with kuhn and popper
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've found taking one step at a time in exploration helps ... take it slow, you know what I mean Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, I easily get lost in that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I even wrote in my profile, curious but incompetent"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because I pick up important names without even to fully understand the depth of their meaning
    Gaya Ethaniel: We are all students Yakuzza, no one is incompetent :)
    Pema Pera: Yes, and most people struggling with epistemology overlook the simple possibility of opening their eyes in a more direct way -- they think too much, as Gaya said. But once you engage in real experience, in whatever way, you can then meaningfully think about that. Anything coming from your own experience has at least that true competence!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
    Pema Pera: our way is the simple 9-sec every quarter of an hour way
    Pema Pera: quick and simple, but many people do get a sense of real competence from it
    Pema Pera: allowing them to ask real questions, based on real experience
    sophia Placebo: nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: true but empiricism is just one way, I try still to learn the language
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s highly possible that u are absolutely right
    Gaya Ethaniel: Personal experiences are valuable and true to the person, even if others may not understand it completely.
    Pema Pera: may I ask, Yakuzza, have you tried to stop for 9 seconds occasionally?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I try to stop my thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even to relax my tongue :O)
    Pema Pera: how about trying to just watch your thoughts, stopping trying to stop? Neither being carried along by them, nor trying to suppress them, just stopping your attachment to them, watching them play like children?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I don´t have a clear perspective and clear opinion but at least right now I have the feeling of making progress
    Pema Pera: that's very important!
    Pema Pera: to continue
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: That feeling can provide a good feedback to continue in my opinion.
    sophia Placebo: chaos of thoughts yak or chaos of feelings?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: watching my thoughts still seems very alienated for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: both
    sophia Placebo: that’s frustrating
    Pema Pera: you may find that either chasing thoughts, as we normally do, or trying to stop thoughts, as we may do to counter the chase, are both alienating. Watching may in fact be *far* more intimate! But this is something to try out and test for yourself, of course.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, when I don´t know how to change that and when I have the feeling that I don´t find a way out
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes I really have those fallbacks that I get really frustrated but that is when I don´t have any believe in what I am doing at all
    sophia Placebo: nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: As Pema said, watching helps. Just observing with curiosity, a neutral stand.
    Pema Pera: a mother watching a child may seem neutral, just letting the child play . . . but is actually most intimate -- as I'm sure Gaya also implied
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can imagine how you may feel Yakuzza. It can feel quite uncomfortable ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) Pema's description is better.
    sophia Placebo: in a case of being trapped in circle of thoughts inside a circle of feeling inside a circle of another thoughts , watching sometimes give you dizziness me feels
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I don´t even feel very sick right now, it´s just complicated to handle natural emotions I believe and to express them
    Pema Pera: yes, Sophia, that is true too . . .
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i even believe that many others are in a similar state and the expression is just impossible because nobody knows how to listen and to reflect emotions
    Gaya Ethaniel: [Me being curious means I care ... yet not to close to interfere something like that]
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah sophia
    Pema Pera: in such cases, it is good to first let go, stop, drop, before gaining more stability to watch
    Pema Pera: yes, Yak, many if not all of us are in the state you describe
    Pema Pera: and it is wonderful to acknowledge that
    Pema Pera: as the most important first step
    sophia Placebo: agree
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think Pema you once said a state of confusion can lead to realisations.
    Pema Pera: we all fall back all the time into confusion (otherwise we wouldn't be here) and we then all have to make that first step all over again
    Pema Pera: "beginner's mind"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: most of the time I don´t talk here for example or in Stim´s session on Thursdays
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I just try to read and to relate
    Pema Pera: I'm so glad to hear you talk, Yak!!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Pema Pera: sharing your experience helps all of us, both to recognize and to share our ideas in turn
    Pema Pera: we all help each other, all the time
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes making time to listen to each other like this :)
    sophia Placebo: talking loudly help to get rid of some buzz from the background of mind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but most sessions don´t have this depth
    Gaya Ethaniel: You do that in RL sophia?
    sophia Placebo: hmm kinda , but not with everyone , only the ones I’m sure they would tolerate my rant and just nods :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sophia, actually I even started to reading loud texts I don´t like but it´s important to read more often
    Pema Pera: yes, Yak, and we can all help to give the sessions more depth, as you are now clearly doing today -- thank you!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and reading loud really seem to block my thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not entirely but it helps
    Pema Pera: chanting mantras is an old technique . . . .
    sophia Placebo: chanting mantras?
    Gaya Ethaniel chants 'appreciation, appreciation ... ' :P
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: mantras, or any kind of spiritual songs or phrases
    Pema Pera: (mantras as they are called in Buddhism)
    Pema Pera: btw, Sophia, thank you again for sending me those note cards with those beautiful quotes about attributes of Allah, ways of knowing Allah, and Existence according to Islam. I very much enjoyed reading them. I wonder, would you be interested to talk about those in a special theme session here in PaB some day?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds interesting :)
    sophia Placebo: aah :) kindda not sure of her self , I would love to though :)
    Pema Pera: great, let's pick a day and time, Sophia!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yakuzza, as Pema said do try watching rather than blocking thoughts.
    sophia Placebo: I can be on sl in 1 am 7 am 1 pm - going to change soon after few weeks
    Pema Pera: and if they are too wild, Yak, as Sophia said, you can just step back a bit more and watch the whole spectacle rather than trying to follow all the swirls :-)
    Pema Pera: how about 7 am this coming Saturday, Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: perfect
    Pema Pera: Great, I will announce it on the PaB list! Very much looking forward to it.
    Pema Pera: Shall we dream up a title?
    Pema Pera: Do you have any preference?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'd say 9 sec to ground oneself first in those occasions could be helpful.
    sophia Placebo: what it would be about exactly ?
    Pema Pera: (out of order, the last two sentences)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: often it´s about losing my own tension, even 5 minutes ago I was thinking, how can I keep the quality of what I say up", how am I percepted" , and then I really have more pressure through a thanks then due to nothing
    Pema Pera: I would say about the great ideas you have injected in the group about your background in Islam
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I know so little about Islam :)
    sophia Placebo: :) I talked a lot
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Yak, that is the most difficult thing to drop -- and the friendliness of this group helps to drop that internal kind of censorship
    Pema Pera: we want you to talk more, Sophia :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: But would be nice to have a whole session with one theme like that though :)
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Pema Pera: which aspect of Islam would you like to start with Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: whatever you like
    Pema Pera: You've talked about existence, about attributes of Allah, about right behavior and attitudes
    Gaya Ethaniel: If I have to measure myself against a standard as such Yakuzza, I'd have to delete all PaB sessions I've participated in :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Actually I think right now that I am for example roman catholic and I would really be pressurised when I have to talk about my own religion since I don´t know the theorie at all
    Pema Pera: hehe, Gaya -- me too!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^.- no way Pema
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but you don´t have such issues sophia?
    sophia Placebo: about talking about my religion ? maybe
    Pema Pera: everything I've said has been imperfect too, Gaya :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Very helpful though Pema :) Perfection isn't a relevant quality at PaB in my opinion.
    sophia Placebo: but keeping in mind that i cant please everyone , nor I have to makes things easier for me yak
    Gaya Ethaniel: Identities are tricky Yakuzza ... I try to wear it 'lightly' as Pema says often.
    Pema Pera: or you could say: PaB acknowledge a deep perfection in imperfection
    Pema Pera: yes, Sophia
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can't chant the whole Korean history though I'm Korean ... it's just not possible.
    Pema Pera: How about a title for Saturday, 7 am as "Ways of Knowing"? We can compare your view of Ways of Knowing Allah with ways of knowing in other traditions and in PaB -- so this would be starting with the first note card you gave me, Sophia
    sophia Placebo: well pema let it be about allah and existence , have to read about it myself , the attitude topic is so branched in my brain - lots of shelves
    Gaya Ethaniel: Your identification with Roman Catholicism is a personal thing in my opinion ... despite what others may judge/think.
    sophia Placebo: perfect pema
    Pema Pera: sure, that's fine, Sophia. Shall we call the theme then "Allah and Existence"?
    Pema Pera: or "Ways of Knowing" or . . . ?
    sophia Placebo: no ways of knowing
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... Saturday 7 am I can't do ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I will read the log instead :)
    Pema Pera: okay, "Ways of Knowing"
    Pema Pera: sorry to hear that, Gaya
    Pema Pera: but I am rather limited in my choices, in France right now, travelling
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Pema Pera waves across the Channel to Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles and waves back.
    Gaya Ethaniel: How time flies! Need to get back to RL. Have wonderful time in France Pema. Enjoy your day all :)
    sophia Placebo: bye gaya :) have fun
    Pema Pera: bye Gaya!
    Pema Pera: This has been a most inspiring session, Yak, thanks to your being so forthcoming, inspiring us all. Thank you so much! And I'm also delighted that we've picked a new theme session. Thank you too, Gaya and Sophia! And Yak, never hesitate to bring up similar thoughts, any time, here.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes thanks so much Yakuzza :)
    sophia Placebo: thanx too pema :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I am really more scared of thanks then of something else somehow :)
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: thank you thank you thank you !!!!
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Pema Pera: (just teasing)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i would like to keep the quality of discusions up but i might end up saying nothing at all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Pema Pera: not to worry, Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it was a good session
    Pema Pera: anything you say from your own experience and concerns is valuable and valid
    Pema Pera: very much so
    Pema Pera: See y'all soon
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    sophia Placebo: bye
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bfn ?
    sophia Placebo: i dont know that appreviation too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so, take care sophia
    sophia Placebo: bye yak

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