2009.06.04 19:00 - Appreciation and gratitude

The Guardian for this meeting was Sylectra Darwin. The comments are by Sylectra Darwin.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Sylectra
Sylectra Darwin: Hi Eos.
Sylectra Darwin: How are you?
Sylectra Darwin: Hi Nos!
Eos Amaterasu: I'm okay... seeing special effects :-)

Nostrum Forder was wearing a particle generator which was spraying beautiful colored balls of light.

Nostrum Forder: Hi
Sylectra Darwin: That would be Nos' eternal art project. :)
Eos Amaterasu: HI Nostrum
Sylectra Darwin: quite lovely
Nostrum Forder: All effects are special.
Nostrum Forder: Hmm
Sylectra Darwin: We're special too.
Sylectra Darwin: hehe
Nostrum Forder: Place still hasn't burned down.
Sylectra Darwin: nope, solid as a rock.
Sylectra Darwin: er, maybe a virtual rock
Sylectra Darwin: Eos, do you run a meeting here?
Eos Amaterasu: Tuesday nights
Sylectra Darwin: Same time?
Eos Amaterasu: (nights my time, 19:00)
Sylectra Darwin: smiles
Sylectra Darwin: I used to run Tuesday nights.
Sylectra Darwin: I forget how I ended up doing Thursday instead.
Sylectra Darwin: I think I traded with Steven.
Eos Amaterasu: This is pushing my bedtime, but I try to catch these as I can
Eos Amaterasu: Pursuing the elusive 9-second Mynah bird
Sylectra Darwin: lately I have been tired for these...lots going on at my new job

Nostrum flew down from the center of the Pavilion, which is open to the sky, after checking out the build.

Eos Amaterasu: Bravo, Nostrum!
Sylectra Darwin: So I see you are a member of the lucid dreaming society.
Nostrum Forder: My God, it's full of prims!
Sylectra Darwin: I've always wondered what that is?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Sylectra Darwin: hehe, yes, Nos
Sylectra Darwin: I wonder how many prims.
Eos Amaterasu: Waking while dreaming, waking while waking
Sylectra Darwin: Being dreamed by the dreamer. Isn't that a bushman saying?
Sylectra Darwin: Do you practice lucid dreaming?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes... Eliza was saying something close to that the other night
Sylectra Darwin: also in response to your group memberships?
Eos Amaterasu: Being dreamed by the dreamer
Sylectra Darwin: right.
Eos Amaterasu: liza Madrigal: Ah...when you see they arise from the gap then that element of the gap is there in perception of what has arisen....illuminated seems the word I keep coming back to.
Sylectra Darwin: what is "they" in that reference?
Eos Amaterasu: You fall into a dream, but also you come from a dream
Eos Amaterasu: Oh, appearances
Eos Amaterasu: We were talking about appearances being allowed to be more themselves in the 9 secs
Eos Amaterasu: or so
Sylectra Darwin: oh, of course.
Sylectra Darwin: was that on Tuesday?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes
Eos Amaterasu: Not having to be appreciated by me
Eos Amaterasu: but coming from appreciation
Eos Amaterasu: appreaciation as letting rest, letting let rest
Eos Amaterasu: and things come from that, without having left that
Eos Amaterasu: ... sometimes. ...
Sylectra Darwin: This is the theme of the next few weeks...appreciation.
Sylectra Darwin: I like that.
Sylectra Darwin: It brings me around to gratitide.
Sylectra Darwin: gratitude.

Kenji had arrived.

Sylectra Darwin: Hello, Kenji.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi, Kenji
kenji Pookes: Hi all.
Sylectra Darwin: Do you normally have a pretty good sized crowd on Tuesdays?
kenji Pookes: What's the topic?
Eos Amaterasu: Not really... it's varied, but has been small, 2 or 3 or 4 people, the last few times
Eos Amaterasu: Altho last time 6 griefers showed up
Sylectra Darwin: oh no!
kenji Pookes: What exactly is a "griefer"?
Sylectra Darwin: Kenji, we are rather loosely discussing appreciation.
Sylectra Darwin: A griefer is someone who shows up with the intention of being disruptive.
kenji Pookes: Appreciation of what?
kenji Pookes: I see.
Sylectra Darwin: They usually do something to violate the terms of service, like push or use weapons.
kenji Pookes: This seems to be common in SL.
Eos Amaterasu: It was my first real SL encounter with such
Sylectra Darwin: too common
Sylectra Darwin signs
Sylectra Darwin: sighs
kenji Pookes: Do you think it is a result of anonymity?
Sylectra Darwin: possibly - good observation.
kenji Pookes: I have found in SL that people seem to feel free to say and do whatever they want.
Sylectra Darwin: Eos, you've been discussing appreciation - would you like to answer Kenji's question?
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, appreciation of what?
kenji Pookes: yes
Eos Amaterasu: We're practicing "appreciate the presence of appearance"
Eos Amaterasu: and, "appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation of being"
kenji Pookes: Um. ok. I'm a bit dense, so I don't have any idea what that means.
kenji Pookes: Sounds Heideggerian, though.
Eos Amaterasu: But Sylectra, you were starting to say something about gratitude, which I think has some relation to appreciation
Eos Amaterasu: I must confess that I did youthful experimentation with Heidegger :-)
Sylectra Darwin: Yes, from my limited perspective, I think appreciation is more observant than gratitude.
kenji Pookes: That sounds like doing drugs.
Sylectra Darwin: hehe
Sylectra Darwin: But to have gratitude, you must first know what you are grateful for. Thus, appreciation.
kenji Pookes: How can appreciation or gratituted be "observant"?
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, gratitude is also a state....
Sylectra Darwin: I was appreciating a young mockingbird which was sitting on a railing as I walked out of my place of work today.
Eos Amaterasu: Sylectra, do you mean that appreciation has an observant quality?
kenji Pookes: How is appreciation different from looking at?
Sylectra Darwin: yes, that is what I am saying, but I think I am not the most knowledgeable about how this group has been using the word appreciation.
Eos Amaterasu: WE're been exploring it
Sylectra Darwin: What has been your experience, Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: Aldous Huxley used a William Blake phrase as a kind of evaluation of appreciation experience
Eos Amaterasu: "gratitude is heaven itself"
Eos Amaterasu: in a sense that sort of gratitute is not even gratitude for anything in particular
Sylectra Darwin: Hello Avastu :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friends - love to you
Eos Amaterasu: but a state of mind. state of being
kenji Pookes: Hi Avastu
Sylectra Darwin: love to you
Sylectra Darwin: I am curious...what book did Aldous Huxley write that in?
Eos Amaterasu: I don't remember the book exactly, maybe "the doors of perception"
Sylectra Darwin: I thought he only wrote science fiction?
Sylectra Darwin: I loved Brave NEw World.
Sylectra Darwin: It's one of those books that reverberated in my head long after reading it.
Sylectra Darwin: I will have to look that up.
Eos Amaterasu: This was related to his experimenting with LSD
Sylectra Darwin: rolls eyes
Eos Amaterasu: he used that phrase as a kind of koan, a key to the quality that could be had with that experience
Sylectra Darwin: Why don't any of our philosophers get cranked up on raisins, or maybe orange seltzer?
Eos Amaterasu: I think that kind of gratitude has a lot to do with appreciation which is 360 degrees
kenji Pookes: How do you know they don't?
Eos Amaterasu: Every little detail can light things up
Sylectra Darwin: please do tell me if you ever hear of someone chomping down a bunch of raisins and then writing a philosophy treatise.
Eos Amaterasu: almonds
kenji Pookes: Will do
Sylectra Darwin: Well there is the mindful eating exercise of the raisin.

Typical Puddlegum had joined us in the guise of a toaster, with an electric cord tail lashing about behind it.

Typical Puddlegum made a whimsical entrance to the night's Play as Being dressed as toaster.

Sylectra Darwin: Hello, Typical :)
kenji Pookes: Hi Typ. Nice toaster.
Typical Puddlegum: Oh, yes, let's patronize the toaster AV, because we're all sooooo special.
Sylectra Darwin: That's got to be the most creative avatar I have ever seen.
Typical Puddlegum grimaces.
Eos Amaterasu: I'm glad you popped up, Typ!

This avatar had the unique talent of being able to make and pop up toast. 

kenji Pookes: I actually meant that it is a nice toaster. No need to get burned about it.
Sylectra Darwin: I try to imagine a face to go with the personality.
Sylectra Darwin snorts
Sylectra Darwin: lol
Typical Puddlegum: Great, navel-gazing toaster punsters.
kenji Pookes: I think we should all toast Typical.
Typical Puddlegum: Just what SL needs.
Sylectra Darwin: indeed :)
Eos Amaterasu: RAise a glass to the hard working toaster!
Sylectra Darwin: can I have some toast?
kenji Pookes: Do you do bagels?
Typical Puddlegum: Here's something to think about:
Typical Puddlegum: at the moment, thre are 64,231 people logged into SL.
kenji Pookes: How many of them are toasters?
Sylectra Darwin: I am appreciating the seemingly random and somwhat sudden appearance of a toaster.
Eos Amaterasu: 1?
Typical Puddlegum: It doesn't matter.
Sylectra Darwin: 23?
kenji Pookes: 42
Eos Amaterasu: How many are toast?
Sylectra Darwin: 42! The answer is always 42.
kenji Pookes: I think the number of toasters in SL is very important.
Typical Puddlegum: What matters is, all but 5 of them are probably cybering right now.
Sylectra Darwin: Oh my now that would be interesting.
Sylectra Darwin: To be toast, that is.
kenji Pookes: your toast is burning
kenji Pookes: This is making me hungry.
Sylectra Darwin: yes, for some reason I am craving carbs.
kenji Pookes: with butter
kenji Pookes: Eos, may I ask you a non-toast related question?
Eos Amaterasu: deeply intertwingled with appearance
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, please
kenji Pookes: How did you arrive at the name Amaterasu?
Eos Amaterasu: When I had to choose as last name, when signing up, in the "A"s there was Amaterasu
Eos Amaterasu: and that was it, I just said "I gott take that"
kenji Pookes: So no particular reason. Did you know what it means at the time?
Eos Amaterasu: I was somewhat familiar with Amaterasu Kami
kenji Pookes: I see.
Eos Amaterasu: and in a way had a connection with her, and with the dawn quality
kenji Pookes: Since I do research on Japanese religion, I was curious.
Eos Amaterasu: which is why I then thought I should have a first name of "Eos"
Eos Amaterasu: who is the ancient Greek goddess of dawn
Eos Amaterasu: It was all pretty spontaneous and choiceless :-)
kenji Pookes: Makes sense. It is interesting how we arrive at names for our avatars.
Eos Amaterasu: Amaterasu has a shrine here in SL
kenji Pookes: Yes, I've checked that out.
Sylectra Darwin: Really?
Eos Amaterasu: I found it thru Kira Café
Eos Amaterasu: Amaterasu had been walled up in a cave
Eos Amaterasu: which was eventually opened up
Eos Amaterasu: and she was shown a mirror
Eos Amaterasu: and when she looked in it she saw herself, and that she was beautiful
Eos Amaterasu: and the sourece of light
Sylectra Darwin: lovely
kenji Pookes: Actually, she went into the cave because she was pissed off and they used a lewd dance to draw her out and bring back the light. Standard eclipse mythology.
Sylectra Darwin: ah well. We are physical beings, and vain
kenji Pookes: She was pissed off because her brother pooped all over her palace.
Sylectra Darwin: wow, that's understandable
Eos Amaterasu: the gods are so mortal :-)
kenji Pookes: Well, the Japanese ones are.
Eos Amaterasu: so are the Greek ones
Eos Amaterasu: and the Norse ones
kenji Pookes: yes
Sylectra Darwin: Hindu too, from what I have read.
kenji Pookes: Amaterasu is interesting because her son, Jimmu, became the first emperor (I think I have that right) and, thus, the emperors of Japan were believed to be descended from the gods.
kenji Pookes: A powerful basis upon which to build an ideology of racial superiority.
Sylectra Darwin: nods
Eos Amaterasu: the dawn quality is related to appearance just emerging from space, the gap, the source
kenji Pookes: ?
Eos Amaterasu: freshness, just emerged, and still touched with the dewy liquid quality of light, of opening
Sylectra Darwin: That's really nice.
kenji Pookes: I'm not much on poetry, so I didn't really understand that Eos.
Sylectra Darwin: Well I have an early day tomorrow so I;ll say goodnight to you all.
Eos Amaterasu: when you let go, of things, of expectations, of overlapping karmic
Eos Amaterasu: 'night Sylectra!
kenji Pookes: Sweet dreams.
Avastu Maruti: good night my friend
Sylectra Darwin: thanks, and you as well.
Sylectra Darwin: I'll see you soon :)
Eos Amaterasu: when things emerge, they emerge non-sticky
kenji Pookes: ?
Eos Amaterasu: fresh
Eos Amaterasu: Sorry, I am highly metaphorical :-)
kenji Pookes: Yes. Sounds good, but I don't really understand much of it. i'm highly concrete.
kenji Pookes: I've never really liked poetry because it is vague.
Eos Amaterasu: wandering
kenji Pookes: ?
Eos Amaterasu: language is intrinsically metaphorical, is it not?
Eos Amaterasu: "vague" comes from Middle French, from latin vaugs, wandering
kenji Pookes: Of course, but meaning can be more or less clearly constructed. I prefer clarity.
kenji Pookes: Don't know much about middle french.
kenji Pookes: Don't know much about either end of french either.
Eos Amaterasu: or French toast...
kenji Pookes: I LOVE French toast.
kenji Pookes: With lots of maple syrup.
Eos Amaterasu: So here's a question
Eos Amaterasu: (luv maple syrup)
kenji Pookes: shoot
Eos Amaterasu: is there clarity in the 9 secs?
kenji Pookes: I'm not clear on the question.
Eos Amaterasu: What is your experience in the 1% tax, 9 seconds of every 15 minutes
Eos Amaterasu: or in the 90 secs here?
kenji Pookes: Oh. I don't experience anything different from the other 99%.
Avastu Maruti: good night my friends
kenji Pookes: I should state that I am not a spiritual being in any way.
kenji Pookes: Good night.
Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Avastu!
Eos Amaterasu: spiritual being, material being, this or that kind of being - are these not just opinions?
kenji Pookes: No. What I meant is that I am not inclined toward spiritual activitiy.
Eos Amaterasu: My experience is that part of the quality of being in the 9secs appreciating the presence of appearance
Eos Amaterasu: is that my own thoughts and emotions and perceptions are all part of that experience
kenji Pookes: But they are all part of every experience.
Eos Amaterasu: theya re all appearances
kenji Pookes: Everything is an appearance, so the term doesn't seem to do much work for me.
Eos Amaterasu: There's a softness to appearance, in that it's a mutual dance with the experiencer
Eos Amaterasu: I don't hear the high frequencies as well as my son
kenji Pookes: Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense to me.
Eos Amaterasu: my eyes don't focus well enough for me to drive a car withought my glasses
kenji Pookes: You are describing normal deterioration of the human body.
Eos Amaterasu: I am describing the normal codepence of experienced and experiencer
Eos Amaterasu: If I had gamma ray eyes I could see right through you
Eos Amaterasu: You are only solid because I don't have such eyes
Eos Amaterasu: seemingly
kenji Pookes: If you are stating that the "objective" world and my subjective interpretaton of the world generate realtiy, then I would agree with you.
Eos Amaterasu: where is the solid ground there? That's partly what I feel is explored in the suspension, the epoché, of just observing with, as much as possible, no assumptions/pre-conceptions
kenji Pookes: Sorry, but I didn't understand what you meant there.
kenji Pookes: Ever seen an eipsode of Star Trek: The Next Generation called Darmok?
Eos Amaterasu: Possibly, but don't recall - what was it about?
kenji Pookes: The Enterprise encounters a race of people who speak entirely in metaphors related to their history and mythology. They can understand all of each other's words, but none of the meaning. I feel like i'm in that episode right now.
Eos Amaterasu: CAn you turn the channel?
kenji Pookes: Huh?
Eos Amaterasu: I dont' think "42" says it all :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Although I do love integers!
kenji Pookes: Only if you don't like Hitchiker's Guide.
Eos Amaterasu: I am curious, Kenji, as to how you would describe your experience of this 90 secs silence?
kenji Pookes: The same as every other 90 secs I experience.
kenji Pookes: Just part of the flow of time.
Eos Amaterasu: do you experience the flow?
kenji Pookes: How do you experience it?
kenji Pookes: How can one not experience the flow of time?
Eos Amaterasu: I'm woindering about the word "flow"
kenji Pookes: Yes, I know that's what you are wondering. I didn't mean it in a buddhist or taoist sense. Just the passage of time.
Eos Amaterasu: How I experience it, is that there is a reminder that puts a little gap in my normal absorption in my flow
Eos Amaterasu: the things I worry or obsess or converse or think or ruminate about
kenji Pookes: for me it's all the same flow. No interupptions.
kenji Pookes: why do you obsess about things?
Eos Amaterasu: I find that there are thoughts going on al the time, as well as perceptions, emotions, the sense of "me"
Eos Amaterasu: I can experience all of those
kenji Pookes: Well, I'm getting tired and there seems to be a big lag here.
kenji Pookes: I think I see our difference. I don't worry about those things. I just am. I really couldn't give a shit about who I am or what I experience, I just experience what is, ust as I am.
kenji Pookes: Well, I've got to run. nice chatting, Eso. Very interesting. Good night.
Eos Amaterasu: Good night, kenji