2009.06.12 13:00 - The motivation workshop

    Table of contents
    No headers

    Wol Euler was guardian for this session. Comments coming soon, I hope.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Trav :)

    Travieso Sella: hello

    Travieso Sella: Do you have a topic you want to discuss?

    Fael Illyar: No, haven't had one for ages :)

    Wol Euler: hello Fael, Travi

    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)

    Travieso Sella: hey wol

    Fael Illyar: Hi Wester :)

    Fael Illyar: Ah, you're the guardian for today Wol?

    Wol Euler: I believe so :)

    Wester Kiranov: hi wol, fael, travieso

    Travieso Sella: hello

    Wol Euler: Solo asked for cover for two weeks, I htink this is the second of them

    Wol Euler: hello wester

    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, I think I recall something of the sort :)

    Wol Euler: hello star

    Fael Illyar: Hi Star :)

    Wester Kiranov: hi star

    Stargate Tone: Hello Wol , Fael, Wester and Travieso :)*

    Wol Euler: does anyone have a topic for us today?

    Fael Illyar: meep :)

    Stargate Tone: _/!\_

    Wol Euler: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P

    Fael Illyar: Hi Mick :)

    Wol Euler: hello mick

    Stargate Tone: how about joy or joy or joy ..or...:)***

    Wester Kiranov: hey mickey

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone

    Stargate Tone: Hi Mickorod

    Travieso Sella: Well, mine is human motivation, that is what gets people motivated and willing to do things rather than be lazy or something else.

    Mickorod Renard: ;)

    Wol Euler: hello gayabunny

    Wester Kiranov: yeah, i could use some ;)

    Mickorod Renard: hi Gaya

    Travieso Sella: What's gets people motivated and or energied to work?

    Wester Kiranov: hi gaya

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)

    Wol Euler: Joy is a motivator, I think; people are glad to do things that they think will give them that.

    Mickorod Renard: I am motivated cos I like avin something to do

    Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)

    Mickorod Renard: yea,,there is like a paradox,,like i like doin nice things for people,,bu that in itself is selfish cos I enjoy it

    Wol Euler frowns. Who said that good works had to feel bad?

    Mickorod Renard: grin,,well spose it doesnt..but I do feel like I do nice things cos I want to

    Fael Illyar: Hi Fef :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fefonz :)

    Mickorod Renard: In the past that always seemed a pain,,cos I only wanted to do for myself

    Wester Kiranov: hi fef

    Wol Euler: hello Fefonz

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya fef

    Fefonz Quan: hello hello :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: what do you mean, Mick?

    Mickorod Renard: well,,thats the paradox

    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you mean you want to be able to do things for others when it doesn't necessarily make you feel good Mick?

    Mickorod Renard: cos I am now trapped in this love for wanting to spread good,,but sometimes i wonder whether i do it just to make myself feel good about myself

    Wol Euler: that depends on how the feeling good arises, I would say.

    Mickorod Renard: dont worry, I dont loose sleep over it

    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry brb

    Gaya Ethaniel: /afk

    Wol Euler: if it comes from within you, as a result of what you see yourself doing, then IMHO it's not a bad motivation

    Wol Euler: if it comes from the gratitude and humble thanks you expect to receive, that might be different.

    Fael Illyar: as a motivation, it's great but ... do you do it because you feel you need it?

    Wol Euler: because that puts you in a different relation to the others

    Mickorod Renard: I feel mbarrased if I recieve thanks

    Travieso Sella: I don't know. Even when I'm doing things just for myself, I have trouble get motivated, as one does sometimes. I've just been wondering how to find motivatin to get things done, not necceasrily my philosophy behind kind acts.

    Fael Illyar: Motivation is a tough subject.

    Fefonz Quan: lack of it is harder

    Mickorod Renard: maybe it was the loss of motivation in doin for myself that I found motivation in doing for others

    Fael Illyar: At least for me, if I feel I'd like to get something done but can't get motivated, there's some reason for that.

    Fael Illyar: something I believe that makes the prospect of doing it seem uninviting, even with the expected good that comes out of getting it done.

    Wester Kiranov: I think so too, but how are you going to find that reason?

    Fefonz Quan: sometimes it is just basic laziness from my side

    Wester Kiranov: And it might be intrinsic, something in what you think you want to do, or extrinsic, like fear.

    Mickorod Renard: some things..like tidying the kitchen , for me is not motivating,,as it looks a mess an hour later

    Fefonz Quan: i agree with that mick.

    Travieso Sella: yeah, fear, laziness, both things I can relate to, as well as the kicthen

    Wol Euler: :)

    Mickorod Renard: but I do find motivation if I see a lasting legacy

    Fael Illyar feels laziness is too broad of a term to mean anything useful.

    Fefonz Quan: what do you mean by lasting legacy?

    Mickorod Renard: I mean something you may be able to observe later and be able to feel good about my input

    Fael Illyar: something you can look at and think "ah, I'm so happy I did that"?

    Wester Kiranov: for me, calling something lazy is just an excuse to beat myself up about it

    Wester Kiranov: not helpful at all

    Mickorod Renard: true

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Fefonz Quan: mostly i find this 'laziness' arises when the tasks are boring/unpleasant etc.

    Travieso Sella: Well perhaps it's simply lack of motivation.

    Mickorod Renard: there is a danger in this group,,that we are learning to see diferent values,,this in turn may make regular chores seem rather meaningless

    Fefonz Quan: yes there is Mick

    Travieso Sella: And someone once told me there are no lazy people. I'm a bit sketpical about that though.

    Wol Euler: "differently energetic" perhaps.

    Fefonz Quan: he was too lazy to clasify them better :)

    Fael Illyar: there is no 'laziness'. Just different fears.

    Fael Illyar: and expectations

    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure Fael. if something is very boring (dishes), what do i fear?

    Fael Illyar: the unpleasant time you will have washing them.

    Wol Euler: might that be resentment rather than boredom?

    Fefonz Quan: yes, that's true. but that makes fear a very general term

    Wol Euler: the feeling "I should not have to do this"

    Fael Illyar: do you have a better term to propose as the general term?

    Fefonz Quan: not i should not (who else will?), but just 'i need to do it, yet it is so boring, i don't enjoy it a bit'

    Fefonz Quan: )

    Fefonz Quan: no, i wanted more specific terms Fael :)

    Mickorod Renard: I have a friend,,its called a dishwasher,,it has done more for me than anyone (in manual work) with exception of my parents.(now dead)

    Wol Euler: :)

    Fefonz Quan: i got him too lately Mick, great great joy!

    Fael Illyar: it is very specific too. Fear is just a very common feature of our minds.

    Wol Euler washes the dishes by hand, by choice, and enjoys doing it.

    Mickorod Renard: I love my dishwasher

    Wol Euler: hello Ninja

    Fael Illyar: for example, my own dislike of washing dishes...

    Ninja Easterman: hellooo what happennen

    Fael Illyar: I recently had an experience of joyously washing the mountain of dishes I had piling up.

    Wol Euler: you've been here before, haven't you?

    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ninja

    Wol Euler: I think I remember your av

    Travieso Sella: Sometimes I like doing the dishes, and sometimes it's the lat thing I want to think about. And I'll go through phases where I'm very productive and phases where I'm just wasting time.

    Wol Euler: yes, fael.

    Fefonz Quan: yes Fael, i agree it has much more to do with my state of mind than with the dishes.

    Fael Illyar: I found I was punishing myself for not having done them faster the entire time washing them usually.

    Gaya Ethaniel quitely slips back on her cushion.

    Wol Euler: wb gaya

    Fefonz Quan: in a way, sitting in meditation with closed eyes is more boring, but i enjoy it

    Mickorod Renard: I am so lazy I wud hate having to load and empty the dishwasher,,but its a chance for me to bond with it

    Wol Euler: Ninja, I'll give you an intro in IM so that we don't disturb the others

    Fefonz Quan: yet the dishes need some Effort to do them, which is an important parameter here

    Fael Illyar: yes, but it's not the physical effort that's the key. It's the mental effort

    Mickorod Renard: washing dishes in my house is like digging a hole in a very dry sandy desert

    Fefonz Quan: both i would say. there is no more mental effort in doing dishes than in watching TV, but if i could do them sitting on the couch, not moving, it will be easier

    Wol Euler: actually, at least for me being lazy is not about conserving energy.

    Wol Euler: I've noticed that when I am lazy about doing X, I spend just as much time and energy on Y instead

    Fefonz Quan: (in fact i do that while meditating when the dishwasher is working. much more fun Fael :))

    Fael Illyar: doing the dishes itself does not take much mental effort, agreed. But everything else you're used to doing while washing them does...

    Fael Illyar: perhaps after too

    Ninja Easterman: cool..

    Fael Illyar: before I learned to leave the extra mental effort out, it was quite taxing work.

    Fefonz Quan: well, in a way it is similar to teh cooking before the meal, yet i have no troubles with the cooking.

    Mickorod Renard: I have observed that many people..(me included at times) spend more effort trying to get out of a task,,than the effort needed to just do it

    Wol Euler: yes mick!

    Fefonz Quan nods

    Wol Euler: how silly, but I do it too.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Scath :)

    Mickorod Renard: Hi Scath

    Wol Euler: hello scath

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fael, all:)

    Fefonz Quan: Hi Scath

    Ninja Easterman: tasks i do i do not finish ...

    Fael Illyar: That's always rooted in the extra mental effort we're used to doing but don't know we're doing.

    Mickorod Renard: I have built upon this observation,,and now do find I am less lazy,,in this way

    Wester Kiranov: in some way I tend to feel that washing up is not really part of the meal, while cooking is

    Mickorod Renard: I am guilty of that NInja

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath (finally caught up

    Wol Euler nods. Good point

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Mickorod Renard: I often start something,,then loose interest

    Wester Kiranov: same here mick

    Ninja Easterman: thats why im on here now....gave up to many half finished projects

    Mickorod Renard: I do like to feel a buzz

    Wol Euler smiles

    Mickorod Renard: grin

    Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ... those things I just accept I have to do it ... like other necessary activities ie sleep.

    Fefonz Quan: agree with Wester, but for me there is another difference: i find the cooking creative, hence 'interesting', while the washing is just cleaning up, routine and boring

    Mickorod Renard: I am not much of a cooker..but i can relate to that thought

    Mickorod Renard: and to Gaya

    Ninja Easterman: barbecue no mess in house just cook and eat...lol

    Wester Kiranov: I did have a time when cooking was getting boring too, but I got out of that. Maybe it is possible to do something similar with the rest of the meal?

    Fefonz Quan: i suspect i was too lucky till now so i have very little tasks i need to do and don't want to.

    Gaya Ethaniel: I mean ... I don't think cats put a lot of thoughts about grooming themselves much.

    Fefonz Quan: maybe children will solve that ;-)

    Fael Illyar: I took washing dishes routine, non creative ... until I let go of the idea that it has to be that.

    Mickorod Renard: I think cats get an instinktive stimulus

    Gaya Ethaniel: Why attach values to those basic activities?

    Mickorod Renard: excuse the play on words

    Wol Euler: yes, gaya, value is the key, I think.

    Wol Euler: I've found that once I actually make myself do something, that the doing itself is not nearly as bad (dull, effortful, annoying) as I had told myself it would be

    Fefonz Quan: yes, very true Wol

    Wester Kiranov: Actually, I think we don't value those basic activities enough

    Fefonz Quan: seems it is a nice place for APA practice

    Wester Kiranov: We don't really see their importance

    Mickorod Renard: I remember when I was younger,,I had this idea that domestication was a conspiracy to make people conform and loose the real objective in life

    Wol Euler: yes, fef :)

    Ninja Easterman: have to keep on top off it.....then not much work at all.......

    Fael Illyar: (in my case, I was giving washing dishes negative value)

    Wester Kiranov: ok, next time we do the dishes we do APA with it

    Gaya Ethaniel ponders ... value ... appreciation ... interesting.

    Ninja Easterman: smoke doobie dishes be realy clean...

    Mickorod Renard: get paper dishes

    Wol Euler: shocking!

    Wol Euler: the enviornment!!

    Gaya Ethaniel: So starting with giving values can be positive yet can be problematic in Fael's example.

    Ninja Easterman: just thinken that tooo

    Ninja Easterman: bad bad

    Wol Euler: :)

    Fefonz Quan: i also see that my general state of mind makes a lot of difference when comeing to these 'boring' task. when in a good mood, i will do anything and enjoy it.

    Mickorod Renard: hey,,there is proberbly less polution in discarded paper dishes than detergent and water waste

    Wol Euler: not if you factor in _making_ the paper plate, surely?

    Mickorod Renard: mmmm..not sure

    Fefonz Quan: recycled paper Wol ?

    Ninja Easterman: true true i just use a water at times...why not

    Wol Euler admits to using paper plates at barbecues and picnics.

    Gaya Ethaniel: With a right choice of the machine and usage, using dishwasher can be greener than doing them by hand (I don't have dishwasher btw).

    Mickorod Renard: I suppose this is all about,,'what is the meaning of life'' in the end

    Ninja Easterman: paperplates can not recycle ....

    Fael Illyar: well, you can burn them for energy :)

    Ninja Easterman: true

    Fefonz Quan: 'those who burn paperplates will one day burn books' ;-)

    Wol Euler: most of our discussions are about that, Mick :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Mickorod Renard: make them outa rice paper,,then eat them afterwards

    Fael Illyar: aah, rice paper plates... sounds a nice idea :)

    Fefonz Quan: now we understand why in certain monestaries the monks endure years of washing dishes and floor sweeping before starting the 'real' practice

    Ninja Easterman: ah there yeah go

    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... you can't eat rice paper Mick.

    Fael Illyar: oh?

    Mickorod Renard: I thought you cud?

    Wol Euler: actually, there are some kinds of paper that are edible, used in baking.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe you are thinking about rice crackers I don't know >.<

    Wol Euler: maybe not rice ...

    Wol Euler: yeah, really big crackers.

    Mickorod Renard: well,,something edible then

    Mickorod Renard: ;)

    Gaya Ethaniel: We are concerned about *how* we live our lives I guess.

    Fefonz Quan: Mick, instead of the rice paper you can just eat with the hands from the central pot, if we go there...

    Mickorod Renard: wont it need washing?

    Fefonz Quan: just one element though, instead of a table full of silverware

    Ninja Easterman: water wash it

    Wol Euler: I suppose you could let teh dogs lick it clean ...

    Wester Kiranov: or the ants...

    Fefonz Quan: we are getting off topic totally, sorry

    Mickorod Renard: I suppose the crux is,,what would we do with the extra time?

    Wol Euler: more SL!

    Fefonz Quan: yeah!

    Mickorod Renard: he he he

    Wester Kiranov: :D

    Ninja Easterman: what was topic any way

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Fael Illyar: propably something you like :)

    Mickorod Renard: its not lazy if we do something with our spare time

    Wester Kiranov: topic was motivation

    Ninja Easterman: ah i need some a that..lol

    Fael Illyar: the best way to be motivated is to like doing whatever it is.

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Fefonz Quan: i again come back to our general approach and mood.

    Ninja Easterman: martial art is good for that very good...

    Fefonz Quan: one week ago i was on a vacation in my homeland, and i can tell you going to the IRA and feeling forms was very delightful

    Wester Kiranov: appreciate the presence of appearance of dishes as a presentation by Being?

    Fael Illyar smiles.

    Wol Euler: because it meant "home", Fef?

    Mickorod Renard: grin

    Fefonz Quan: yes, because i was happy where i was, so simple

    Wol Euler has an idea.

    Wol Euler: I would like to suggest a workshop.

    Mickorod Renard: I left england because of the rain,,now I am back I love the rain,,water is the esence of life..water is beautiful

    Fael Illyar smiles.

    Wol Euler: For a week, take something that comes up more than once (ideally every day) that you dislike doing

    Ninja Easterman: water is for sale...

    Gaya Ethaniel agrees yet wishes for a drish summer.

    Wol Euler: and try to do it with Appreciation

    Wol Euler: seeing it as it really is, doing it with care and thought and consideration

    Wol Euler: without judging it at all.

    Fefonz Quan: yes great idea Wol

    Wol Euler: (or maybe a month of things that you do only once or twice a week)

    Fefonz Quan: just needs some motivation to initialize :)

    Mickorod Renard: mmmm..I think I have got rid of all tose things

    Wol Euler: the motivation is that I will kick your sorry arse if you don't :-PPPPPPP

    Ninja Easterman: see yeah

    Wester Kiranov: it actually fits in very well with looking more closely at food as I was already doing for Stims "class"

    Wol Euler: it's a workshop.

    Travieso Sella: I like that idea Wol

    Fael Illyar: rid as in not doing them anymore or rid as in not having things you dislike anymore?

    Fefonz Quan: yes, fear will get us a long way wol :)

    Wol Euler: :)

    Mickorod Renard: rid of ,,not doing them anymore

    Wol Euler: a better motivation is that trying this might free you of a source of unhappiness in your life.

    Mickorod Renard: although sleeping is frustrating

    Fefonz Quan: oh, sleeping is great Mick!

    Fael Illyar: sleeping with appreciation :)

    Wester Kiranov: not sleeping is frustrating

    Mickorod Renard: I suppose its the tiredness that is frustrating

    Wester Kiranov: I very much appreciate the sleep i get

    Fefonz Quan: mick, it is like saying chocolate is frustrating because of the hunger

    Mickorod Renard: well,,i love chocolate

    Mickorod Renard: but sleep takes up time

    Fefonz Quan: ok, that is very individual

    Wol Euler: ah!

    Wol Euler: mick, this can be your subject for the workshop

    Mickorod Renard: ok

    Wol Euler: try to just "do" sleeping, without assigning it a value

    Wol Euler: don't feel that it takes away X or gives you Y, just be calm and neutral and do it

    Mickorod Renard: usually i am so nackered i dont think about it,,but wud have liked to have not slept if posible

    Fefonz Quan: aha, smart Mick got the easy tasks :) can i get the chocolate?

    Wol Euler: hahahahah

    Gaya Ethaniel: What would you do instead of sleeping Mick?

    Fael Illyar: feeling that sleep is taking time from you is assuming you have that time in the first place :)

    Fefonz Quan: [13:59] Gaya Ethaniel: What would you do instead of sleeping Mick? 0---> washing dishes!

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler laughs and thwaps Fef with a cushion

    Fefonz Quan: fong!

    Fefonz Quan: agree with Fael here

    Mickorod Renard: I hve so much i want to read and hobbies too that I like doing

    Travieso Sella: okay have a good day folks. I'm glad I got to discuss this.

    Fael Illyar: See you later Trav :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Travieso :)

    Wol Euler smiles. Goodnight Travi, take care.

    Fefonz Quan: Bye Travie

    Mickorod Renard: bye trav

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Travieso

    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Mick, there are so much I want to do too :)

    Travieso Sella: _/!\_

    Wester Kiranov: and you have to appreciate your cigars too mick - just don't smoke in bed ;-)

    Wol Euler: !

    Scathach Rhiadra: and good night from me too, Namaste:)

    Fefonz Quan: bye Scath

    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Scath :)

    Wol Euler: goodnight scath, take care.

    Wester Kiranov: bye scath

    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... that itself is a wonderful thing.

    Mickorod Renard: bye scath

    Gaya Ethaniel: There are so much one would like to do. :)

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Fael Illyar: just... Mick, even if you could avoid sleeping, you wouldn't feel like you'd be getting things done any faster ... at least after a few days.

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to go home,,see you and thanks

    Fefonz Quan: yes, we are approaching some real limitations here

    Wol Euler: bye mick, enjoy the weekend

    Fael Illyar: See you later Mick :)

    Fefonz Quan: Night Mick

    Fael Illyar: happy sleeping :)

    Wol Euler: and do the workshop!

    Mickorod Renard: nite everyone..xx

    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night MIck :)

    Wester Kiranov: think i'll go wash the dishes then :-)

    Wester Kiranov: bye all

    Wol Euler smiles and nods.

    Gaya Ethaniel: :) Bye Wester.

    Fefonz Quan: bye Wester

    Fael Illyar: see you later Wester :)

    Wol Euler: I meant that quite seriously :)

    Ninja Easterman: bye bye was cool

    Wol Euler: goodnight wester, take care

    Fefonz Quan: Ninja surely left a mark

    Wol Euler: indeed.

    Fael Illyar: well, they're fading already :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: What did I miss? O.o

    Wol Euler: bloody footprints and hand marks

    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... that.

    Fael Illyar: bloody footstep particles.

    Fefonz Quan: maybe just red, why bloody?

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler shrugs.

    Wol Euler: I found blood somehow more likely than having stepped in a puddle of red paint.

    Wol Euler: perhaps an association with his name

    Fael Illyar: yes, me too.

    Fefonz Quan: muddy is quite more common...

    Gaya Ethaniel: oh! ty Fefonz.

    Wol Euler: but mud usually isn't the colour known as "blood red"

    Fael Illyar: mud color tends to be quite different...

    Fefonz Quan: that wasn't either

    Fael Illyar: but it's good to remember it cold be muddy too.

    Wol Euler nods

    Gaya Ethaniel: I thought of it as blood only after I heard from Fael and Wol ... looks like I tend to lean on what people say first.

    Fefonz Quan: yes, i didn't think of it as blood too

    Gaya Ethaniel: This actually relates to my preference in checking with others more than myself.

    Gaya Ethaniel: So thanks :)

    Fael Illyar smiles.

    Wol Euler smiles.

    Fefonz Quan too

    Wol Euler: well, the conversation seems to have reached a natural end. Shall we adjourn?

    Gaya Ethaniel: Who's the GoC?

    Wol Euler: me

    Fefonz Quan: i guess we shell, whatever adjourn means

    Fefonz Quan: :)

    Fael Illyar: end the meeting it means :)

    Wol Euler: "be finished"

    Gaya Ethaniel: Solo can't make it anymore?

    Wol Euler: no, just for these two weeks

    Wol Euler: I hope

    Fefonz Quan: ah, good

    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Gaya Ethaniel: Fefonz, if you have time maybe you can tell me of the examples you mentioned in the previous log?

    Gaya Ethaniel: [my email]

    Fefonz Quan: yes, i can, but it will be less private...

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core