2009.06.14 13:00 - A few friends talking

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    We had a very nice conversation with a few PaBers: Pila, Ari, Nymf, a newbie who disappeared when asked if he minded being included in the log, and me.  Topics ranged from the weather, to native healers and traditions involving the notions of breath and breathing in various cultural contexts.  Perhaps especially we thought about the Aloha spirit, as Pila described to us, and he spoke of his thoughts about native healers. And toward the end of our talk we thought about authority, authoritarianism and the hatred of the new.  The newbie came just after I left and so, and I moreless deleted the conversation involving him which had to do with introductions to PaB. 


    Maxine Walden: hi, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi Maxine
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you
    Pila Mulligan: yes, nice to see you also, how are you?
    Maxine Walden: I'm well, thanks, yourself?
    Pila Mulligan: fine thanks
    Maxine Walden: good, how's the weather where you are? Has been warm but today marine overcast here
    Pila Mulligan: it is overcast here after several really beautiful days -- summer almost is upon us
    Maxine Walden: do you like summertime in Hawaii?
    Pila Mulligan: yesterday was an excellent lawn mowing day :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, since I am 2300' up on a mountain it does not get really hot here
    Maxine Walden: ah...wonderful!
    Pila Mulligan: but some summer days in town, at sea level, are better spent at a beach than shopping
    Pila Mulligan: hot :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, can imagine, hot and humid perhaps. it is getting that way some days here in Seattle as well during summertimes
    Pila Mulligan: usually the trade winds keep things comfortable, but some days we have what are called Kona winds (from the south) and some days calm winds and those days can get humid
    Maxine Walden: I see, yes trade winds must be important for overall moderation of the climate...the Pacific currents are so important here, think it is the Japanese current that moderates our state
    Pila Mulligan: yep -- the ocean currents and the prevailing winds seem to be quite important
    Maxine Walden: right...wondering if we are talking in metaphor about winds and currents and moderating forces...not sure but sometimes underlying topics can be not far away...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: as in, could these phenomena be the collective unconscious of weather and culture :)
    Maxine Walden: something like that...:)
    Pila Mulligan: well, it is evident to me that the climate here is part of the culture -- warm and welcoming
    Maxine Walden: that is interesting, the impact of climate/weather upon culture...as if mother earth is very influencing, inviting us to do as she does for us
    Pila Mulligan: my understanding is that in pre-contact Hawaii (before Capt Cook) the population was about 1 million, as it is today, and the general population's necessary work was done by the end of the morning
    Pila Mulligan: fishing, famring, etc all done in a few hours each day
    Maxine Walden: so lots of time for leisure and development of the arts as it were?
    Maxine Walden: of just enjoying the surroundings
    Pila Mulligan: yes, so arts and dance and sports thrived
    Pila Mulligan: hula, weaving and surfing for example
    Pila Mulligan: and singing -- oh wha tsinging :)
    Maxine Walden: were people kind to one another, or was tribalizm an issue as has been nearly everywhere?
    Pila Mulligan: there was a genuine aloha spirit -- the conflicts were generally among the chiefs or ali`i, as I understand it, and theirs could get fierce
    Pila Mulligan: the best infromation I've gained says that before the Tahitian system of chiefs was established here, Hawai`i had a social organization based on extended families, or ohana, and that it was the most peaceful of the several documented layers of social systems
    Maxine Walden: very interesting...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, even today there are lingering contentions between those whose ancestors held the ohana system and those of the ali`i class
    Maxine Walden: ah...but maybe the welcoming climate invites a softening of those ancient differences? Or maybe not
    Pila Mulligan: I think so -- the overall sense of commnity seems permeated with aloha
    Maxine Walden: and aloha means...welcome?
    Pila Mulligan: aloha means love, welcome, hello, goodbye ...
    Pila Mulligan: the best etymology I've seen says it is composed of the words for share (alo) and breath (ha) :)
    Maxine Walden: the greetings that cover salutations...sharing of breath of a sort...nice
    Pila Mulligan: isn't it :)
    Pila Mulligan: hence the polynesian greeting of touching foreheads and noses and breathing gently together
    Maxine Walden: wonderful, reminds me of 'inspiring' which of course comes from 'inspirer" (sp?) to breath in
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: breath is the most important personal thiing
    Maxine Walden: and trade winds, winds as the breath we all share...
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Maxine Walden: you have more thoughts about breath/breathing as the most important thing?
    Pila Mulligan: Hawaiian traditions are full of what we amy call magic, also -- including the art of setting borken bones so that they heal completely in a few days
    Pila Mulligan: most of these invovle some aspect of ha or breath
    Maxine Walden: oh, really, ahh...
    Pila Mulligan: part of it is that the healer breaths through the skin and flesh tot he bone
    Pila Mulligan: to cleanse it so it will heal
    Maxine Walden: very interesting
    Pila Mulligan: I saw this in a dreamone night actually
    Pila Mulligan: a Hawaiian healer did it to me in a dream :)
    Maxine Walden: what did the healer do in the dream?
    Pila Mulligan: I was laying down and she was sitting beside me ... she would reach into my thigh for example and pull out the thigh bone ... whole, just as a bone
    Pila Mulligan: then she would hold it up and I could see it had a few dark smudges on it
    Pila Mulligan: she would wipe the bone with a cloth and then breath on it so it was clean, then put it back in my thigh
    Pila Mulligan: she did this for several bones
    Pila Mulligan: and when I awoke I felt remarkbely refreshed :)
    Maxine Walden: powerful imagery
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it was
    Maxine Walden: did you feel refreshed from the inside, as it were?
    Pila Mulligan: indeed :)
    Maxine Walden: had you been feeling ill or poorly before this dream?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Ari :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ari, nice to see you
    Arisia Vita: Hi Maxine and Pila
    Arisia Vita: nice to see you both
    Pila Mulligan: no, Maxine, I think I may have been tired from overwok, but not particularly ill -- the healer was a Hawaiian woman I had been working with on some leghal issues
    Pila Mulligan: legal*
    Maxine Walden: we are talking about the healing breath of Hawaiian healers
    Maxine Walden: ah...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: or ha as they say (breath) :)
    Arisia Vita: breath?
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Arisia Vita: they blow on you?
    Pila Mulligan: gently
    Pila Mulligan: more like a sigh
    Pila Mulligan: it is like what the Japanese call ki and the Indians call prana and Chinese call chi :)
    Pila Mulligan: a common denominator in old traditions
    Arisia Vita: what are words but controlled breath? and words have the power to heal
    Pila Mulligan: yep, thus also :)
    Pila Mulligan: now, Ari, here is my theory: breath contains photons
    Pila Mulligan: this relates back to the physics topic we touched last week
    Maxine Walden: I was just thinking that...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: all of these old traditions associate breath andlight
    Arisia Vita: breath contains light?
    Pila Mulligan: so they say
    Pila Mulligan: our breath energy of course has vital oxygen, but to the ancients it also had light
    Arisia Vita: it is true, for a breath is warm, and warmth can be sensed as infrared radiation
    Pila Mulligan: and that was the nature of the circulating energy in the body
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Arisia Vita: I work with infrared sensors
    Maxine Walden: yes, Ari?
    Pila Mulligan: aloha Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: Good day everyone, thank you Pila :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Nymf, how nice of you to drop in
    Arisia Vita: Nym....what a delight to see you
    Pila Mulligan: please join our discussion of breath energy
    Pila Mulligan: etc. :)
    Pila Mulligan: I love the idea of ocrrrelating ancient ideas with scinece
    Pila Mulligan: oxygen in breath with the idea of light, etc
    Maxine Walden: hmm, it is intriguing, mixing some intuitions in with more scientific ideas
    Maxine Walden: or ancient science with more current science
    Pila Mulligan: for example, just recently it dawned on me that trying to find answers to old philosphy in the brain is looking in the wrong place, as the yoga based theories related more to the spine
    Pila Mulligan: but if we compare the autonomic nervous sytem with chakras, there are soe coreelations
    Nymf Hathaway: well ancient and current met at Cambridge where a professor concluded Socrates was rightfully accused to the hemlock.... odd conclusion :(
    Pila Mulligan: subversive old Socrates?
    Pila Mulligan: some people will say anyhting :)
    Nymf Hathaway: 2009
    Nymf Hathaway: unbelieveble
    Maxine Walden: important toget a sense of the perspectives being used...but what is this about Socrates?
    Nymf Hathaway: well read it online a Cambridge prof did a research and according to Athens law he was rightfully accused
    Nymf Hathaway: pfff
    Maxine Walden: he was a threat to the state? or something like that? Realize you are not agreeing, Nymph, just trying to see what the Cambridge prof is trying to say
    Nymf Hathaway: yes
    Nymf Hathaway: because he didn't acknowledge the athens gods
    Maxine Walden: reminds me of the authoritarian fear of the new idea...
    Maxine Walden: ah,, yes, undermining the 'authority' of the gods
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: we should kill a lot of people nowadays
    Pila Mulligan: so i guess that closes any hope of appeal the old fellow amy I have had -- until the next professor, at least
    Nymf Hathaway: Smiles at Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: "we should kill a lot of people nowadays" sound sun-Nymfian, could there be an mistype?
    Pila Mulligan: un-Nymfian
    Nymf Hathaway: a joke Pila, you know me :) but it just doesn't sound as a good enough reason to me to shut up a great thinker... as far as we know the first who did discussions in public
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Maxine Walden: and that may be the issue, Nymf, that authoritarianism hates public discussion, hates openness to new ideas and questioning
    Nymf Hathaway: sure
    Nymf Hathaway: look at china...or iran
    Maxine Walden: precisely!
    Maxine Walden: wondering how those regimes will fare with so much openness (internet, cell phones, eager young people)
    Pila Mulligan: the first truly radical thing Bush did was to exclude protestors from his presence in public places
    Nymf Hathaway: it only shows weakness in a person
    Maxine Walden: ah...his fear/hatred of protest perhaps; agree with Nymf
    Pila Mulligan: this was when they first made what they called 1st amendment zones -- little cages half a mile from the place where Bush was
    Arisia Vita: the regimes may try to fight change, to hold on to their old ways, but it will be like trying to a wave upon the sand...
    Arisia Vita: to keep
    Maxine Walden: agree, Ari.
    Maxine Walden: It seems that the mind which cannot really think, but is tied to traditions of 'how it must be' may be what those with authoritarian bents are lumbered with
    Nymf Hathaway: sounds plausible Maxine
    Pila Mulligan: that and plain old self-absorbed greed :)
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Maxine Walden: exactly, Pila, greed is big there
    Maxine Walden: greed and narcissism, perhaps, ie the world must agree with my view
    Maxine Walden: I have to go in a minutes, another meeting. Nice conversation. I will post the chatlog...
    Nymf Hathaway: hmm maybe thats also due to the fact that for over the last 100 years the usa was powerful...they forgot there is a world outside the usa
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy Maxine...
    Maxine Walden: might be Nymf...
    Nymf Hathaway: wishing you a friendly evening Maxine
    Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you as always
    Maxine Walden: thanks Ari, and best wishes as well all around.
    Maxine Walden: see you all soon I hope
    Pila Mulligan: nice outfit Ari :)
    Pila Mulligan: are you going also now?
    Nymf Hathaway: still 4 minutes left :)
    Arisia Vita: ok, I'll stay...
    Nymf Hathaway: Only if you like
    Arisia Vita: I like... :)
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Arisia Vita: with two such friends as you
    Nymf Hathaway: yes feeling the same
    Pila Mulligan: the outfit reminds me of Charles Dickens :) what is it exactly?
    Arisia Vita: I have no idea, Dickens works for me... :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Smiles, it should :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Itsme found a dvd for me...from http://search.barnesandnoble.com/A-G.../9780716731443 this is a book but it originally is a series on tv
    Nymf Hathaway: was a series
    Pila Mulligan: what is it about?
    Nymf Hathaway: hmmmm everything about life
    Nymf Hathaway: Oliver Sacks is in it and Rupert Sheldrake, Freeman Dyson, Stephen Toulmin...in conversation with each other about life :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: smiles
    Nymf Hathaway: This is why I didn't like newbis anymore...on the sims I got really tired of spending time with them :)
    Pila Mulligan: his yes was ambiguous to me
    Pila Mulligan: afew have arrived here and just picked tight up with it
    Pila Mulligan: most don't thoough
    Pila Mulligan: there is one of the newbie ports not far from here
    Pila Mulligan: so as they wander they tend to pass by PaB
    Nymf Hathaway: This is because newbies do not know what sl has to offer yet.... when they find things of their interest they are gone
    Pila Mulligan: picked right up*
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: ah thats why
    Pila Mulligan: and usually those interests are not here :)
    Nymf Hathaway: indeed, dancing :)
    Nymf Hathaway: we danced once Pila, remember?
    Pila Mulligan: ah, yes, Nymf -- the good old daze :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Really dancing I mean :)))
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, in a dream?
    Pila Mulligan: I was thinking SL :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Trying to make our avi's look ugli and see the reactions of others :)
    Arisia Vita: I will leave you two to your memories... :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Arisia Vita: thanks for the chat
    Pila Mulligan: bye Ari, it is not as intimate as it may sound :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good time Arisia :)
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy...
    Nymf Hathaway: Indeed :)
    Arisia Vita: ok if it was
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    Arisia Vita: I don't judge... :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Arisia Vita: cya...
    Nymf Hathaway: was a fun project
    Pila Mulligan: well, I do remmeber now that you mention it Nymf
    Pila Mulligan: the ugly project
    Nymf Hathaway: yes :)
    Nymf Hathaway: and how true it was
    Pila Mulligan: have oyu seent he dance script for here?
    Nymf Hathaway: shocking really
    Nymf Hathaway: no
    Pila Mulligan: it is fun, as a group just a sec
    Pila Mulligan: wear it :0
    Pila Mulligan: onigokko
    Nymf Hathaway: hahahhahahha
    Pila Mulligan: stop
    Nymf Hathaway: great :)
    Pila Mulligan: you ought to see it with 10 people :)
    Pila Mulligan: did oyu hear the music?
    Nymf Hathaway: Yes funny :)
    Pila Mulligan: it gives you avi a little tail, so I take it off between dances
    Nymf Hathaway: Q is watching footage from Iran :( doesn't look good
    Nymf Hathaway: yes I saw
    Pila Mulligan: will they have more riots?
    Nymf Hathaway: seems so...its harsh
    Pila Mulligan: if they get very repressive it will get worse, probably
    Nymf Hathaway: Iran is shutting down youtube but the footage is spredding of course
    Nymf Hathaway: yes, poor people
    Pila Mulligan: and it would not be beyond the CIA to stir things up there, also
    Nymf Hathaway: I hope they do not...better let things work themzelfs out
    Pila Mulligan: the question is what was the real vote, and I hope some day we can find out, but it may never be known
    Nymf Hathaway: z=s
    Pila Mulligan: z=s?
    Pila Mulligan: oh, selfs :)
    Nymf Hathaway: themzelfs must be themselfs
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes :)
    Pila Mulligan: I thought it may be sicence :)
    Nymf Hathaway: hahhahah
    Pila Mulligan: zong = sebelzedts or popular uprising are a ntural thing in repressive regiemes
    Nymf Hathaway: well people themselfs need to be wanting the change...we have seen Irak, that went wrong
    Pila Mulligan: yes -- but as you know the CIA has a history of meddling in Iean, so even if they are not they are reasonably suspected
    Nymf Hathaway: well the guy is a fanatic, meaning amedinejad or something like that
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and I do not know much about his political opponent
    Pila Mulligan: but it would seem to e better, hopefully
    Nymf Hathaway: it is said he is more liberal, mostly students and higher educated people voted for him
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I read that also -- urban vs rural
    Nymf Hathaway: yes old politics versus new politics :)
    Pila Mulligan: rural people came to town to rally for amed***
    Nymf Hathaway: well the footage was horrifying
    Pila Mulligan: I have not seent he videos -- police repression?
    Pila Mulligan: or riots?
    Nymf Hathaway: yes
    Nymf Hathaway: heavy
    Pila Mulligan: ah, well I'll take your word and not watch then
    Nymf Hathaway: fights between police and people
    Pila Mulligan: been there, done that :)
    Nymf Hathaway: yes, everyday the same
    Nymf Hathaway: I was here earlier today and we discussed our planet in the universe...nice discussion
    Pila Mulligan: the cosmic view is a better prespective :)
    Nymf Hathaway: yes :)
    Pila Mulligan: well, Nymf, today is a domestic chore day here,laundry, clenaing and cooking (it is now11:30 am)
    Pila Mulligan: so I will need to be going
    Nymf Hathaway: Wishing you a beautiful day and see you soon, thanks for the TP :)
    Nymf Hathaway: I will log off and go to bed :)
    Pila Mulligan: thank you, and always fun to chat with you -- see you next tie
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    Nymf Hathaway: bye bye friend :)

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