2009.06.27 19:00 - What we Learn

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

When I arrived, SophiaSharon was already there, and Ninja, whom I hadn't met yet.

Pema Pera: Hi Ninja and Sophia!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Ninja
Ninja Easterman: hello
Pema Pera: Ninja, I guess this is your first time here?
Ninja Easterman: ah second why
Pema Pera: oh, if it was the first time I should ask you whether you had any reservation about being recorded
Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ --
Ninja Easterman: its alright....
Pema Pera: but given that you've been here, you know :-)
Ninja Easterman: and you are who....?
Pema Pera: I am an astrophysicist
Ninja Easterman: ah very nice
Pema Pera: from Holland originally, living in New York now, working in Princeton, but right now visiting Tokyo
Pema Pera: how about you?
Ninja Easterman: out a work sawmill worker....lol
Pema Pera: it must be hard, with the current economy . . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: i love this group because its so diverse, it is something unique
Ninja Easterman: yeah .....
Pema Pera: yes, from all countries, backgrounds, etc etc
Ninja Easterman: i am canadain....
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pema Pera: west coast?
Ninja Easterman: yeah bc
Pema Pera: yes, lots of logging there, I noticed when I visited a few years ago -- beautiful country!
Ninja Easterman: yeah it is nice ....
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Steve!
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!

Pema Pera: do you have any questions about our group or our approach, Ninja? Or comments, suggestions?
Ninja Easterman: what do you learn from this...?
Pema Pera: that's the question -- and the way to find out is to join in the kind of explorations we do
Pema Pera: stopping for a few seconds many times a day, trying to drop what we have in order to see what we are
Pema Pera: different people learn different things
Pema Pera: and we share what we learn
stevenaia Michinaga: was lagging a bit there, hello
Ninja Easterman: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pema Pera: (great picture of your dog in front of BC land/water-scape, btw, in your profile!)
Ninja Easterman: thanxs....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Pema I enjoyed the theme session this morning
Pema Pera: me too!
SophiaSharon Larnia: (oops morning for me)
Pema Pera: yesterday evening for me, indeed :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hana question stopped me,,,what it would be like to approach others points of view from idea of oneness
Pema Pera: yes, that was a great question.
Ninja Easterman: oh man i might be lost here....lol
stevenaia Michinaga: asks, is there one Oneness?
Pema Pera: Sophia, would you like to tell Ninja what you've learned so far, roughly, from being with this group?
Pema Pera: so as to give Ninja an idea?
SophiaSharon Larnia: difficult but I can try
Pema Pera: it must be hard to fall into the middle of a oneness discussion :-)
Ninja Easterman: thats it....
Pema Pera: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive learned to step out of my ideas of how I think the world and people are, and exaime where these ideas and views came from. for starters
Ninja Easterman: ah i see....
Ninja Easterman: we are all one......hmmm
SophiaSharon Larnia: but more than that, to learn to (or begin to anyway) to take it lightly and try on different views
SophiaSharon Larnia: plus i started to meditate again, which is always a good thing.... I can say much more here i think
SophiaSharon Larnia: its hard to express
Pema Pera: you're doing a great job, Sophia!
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: like today, i was starting to feel that thinking about islam was going against what i really think, until Hana asked here question, then felt almost ashamed (but not ashamed in the way it sounds). It was a reminder
Ninja Easterman: i am of few words......
SophiaSharon Larnia: i usually am too
SophiaSharon Larnia: (well, 'out loud' anyway)

Pema Pera: yes, all religions have aspects we can appreciate, as well as aspects that we really don't agree with
Pema Pera: it is good to realize both aspects, not to believe blindly in anything but to appreciate what we can resonate with
Ninja Easterman: most are blind....i think
SophiaSharon Larnia: or centered on one world view
SophiaSharon Larnia: appreciating has been hardest for me
stevenaia Michinaga: appreciation begin with an open and quiet mind
stevenaia Michinaga: begins
stevenaia Michinaga: much of what we go here opens the us to appreciation
stevenaia Michinaga: like listening
stevenaia Michinaga: us, not "the us"
Ninja Easterman: that the hard part to clear ones mind , with todays crazy world ....goin on
stevenaia Michinaga: Ithere's where a 9 second break comes in handy
Ninja Easterman: true...
stevenaia Michinaga: a lovely tool
Ninja Easterman: i can walk in nature any time ,people in city must be hard to get peace...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've likened it the the buddhist idea of shamatha and vipashyana, is this what you had in mind when this started Pema?
Pema Pera: I had no particular tradition in mind, Sophia
Pema Pera: rather, after experimenting with many traditions, over many years
Pema Pera: I found for myself that the hardest part was no meditation or contemplation
Pema Pera: but rather integration
Pema Pera: integration in daily life
Pema Pera: so I got the crazy idea to reverse the order:
Pema Pera: starting with integration, and then letting that grow into contemplation
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pema Pera: so starting with 9 seconds every 15 minutes, without really knowing what you're doing, but at least starting to integrate that
Pema Pera: (if that makes any sense :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes it does

SophiaSharon Larnia: but to get back to your question Steve, what do you mean by more that one oneness, can you say more?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i know it was a ?
stevenaia Michinaga: not know where to even begin with "oneness" except withing one;s self, then everyone can experience oneness in a unique way, in contract to the way we think of "Being" as something more universal
stevenaia Michinaga: in contrast... rather
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Sophia, Steven, and Nice to meet you Ninja :)
Ninja Easterman: helloo
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Steve I understand
stevenaia Michinaga: so I jsut glanced at oneness and that was my thioght
stevenaia Michinaga: would be happy to listen to more
stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Adams
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Adams!
Pema Pera: Adams, we're talking about this morning's theme session, including the notion of oneness
Eliza Madrigal waves to Adams
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Everyone :)
Pema Pera: you look very distinguished, Adams!
Adams Dubrovna: thank you Pema :)
Ninja Easterman: oneness with what though .....?
Pema Pera: there are many ways to interpret "oneness" . . . .
Pema Pera: 12 hours ago we had a discussion about that
Pema Pera: about ways in which that notion could be misleading, and ways in which it could be helpful
Ninja Easterman: yeah...
Pema Pera: Here in our group, Play as Being, we sometimes talk about Being
Pema Pera: but Being is not simply "One" or "Oneness"
Pema Pera: rather the word points to what you find when you drop what you have
Pema Pera: so it is very direct, concrete, not abstract at all
Pema Pera: but *if* you like to talk about Being in an abstract way, you can say:
Pema Pera: it is what is beyond all dualities, all polarities, all dichotomies
Pema Pera: Being is beyond long and short, good and bad, one and many . . . . and so on
Ninja Easterman: in english man ....lolsorry
Pema Pera: since all those notions are late-comers
Pema Pera: okay :-)
Pema Pera: we talk about "large" in contrast to "small"
Pema Pera: and really every word we use points to other words
Pema Pera: so everything gets meaning by leaning on other words
Pema Pera: (we tend to stop typing for 90 seconds when the fountain goes misty)
Pema Pera: (another break, a bit longer than the 9-sec one)
Pema Pera: but if you walk in nature, you can sometimes go beyond words
Pema Pera: no need to lean on any words anymore
Pema Pera: and no need to judge, to value
Ninja Easterman: meaning bye leaning i like that....lol
Pema Pera: every use of words automatically implies some judgement, gives some value
Pema Pera: this is a mountain, that is an island, etc
Pema Pera: does that make sense?
Pema Pera: this is a nice island, that one isn't
Ninja Easterman: island is a mountain...?
Pema Pera: this person I like, that one I don't
Pema Pera: well, an underwater mountain -- hehe -- but that's not what I meant
Pema Pera: by naming we judge
Ninja Easterman: i get it ...
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Pema Pera: but we can be with a good friend, without judging, just sharing presence, no words needed
Ninja Easterman: everything on bottom must come to the top...
Pema Pera: :-)

Pema Pera: words point to what we have, but going beyond words makes it possible to taste what we are, what is . . . presence . . .
Pema Pera: so Being is the ultimate presence
Pema Pera: but hard to talk about :-)
Pema Pera: Being expresses itself in everything . . . . .
Ninja Easterman: ah....
Pema Pera: everything that is
Pema Pera: things, thoughts, feelings, dreams, fantasies, you name it
Pema Pera: all phenomenon
Pema Pera: everything that appears
Pema Pera: *phenomena
Ninja Easterman: yeah i hear yeah...
Eliza Madrigal: That reminds me very much of the first session with Sophia...everything as symbols/pointers
Pema Pera: and all that appears seems like many, like the waves of the ocean, and also like one, in that all waves share the same water
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, indeed!
Pema Pera: Among the monotheistic traditions, Islam may be the closest to that notion, at least the Sufis
Pema Pera: Sophia Placebo talking about Allah and Pila talking about the Tao, often it sounds rather similar

Pema Pera: A difference is that it may seem that you pray to Allah, but not to the Tao
Eliza Madrigal: The difference may be in the tone of devotion...
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Pema Pera: yes, exactly
Pema Pera: but when you pray by opening your heart, nothing more, then the difference is perhaps not really there . . . .
Pema Pera: when you pray for personal gain, that's something different :-)
Pema Pera: I love the way Sophia answered Hana:
Pema Pera: Hana Furlough: oh i'm wondering how we access allah
Pema Pera: sophia Placebo: hana just ask him any where any time
Pema Pera: sophia Placebo: he knows what is in your heart and your thoughts and intentions
Eliza Madrigal nods..seems 'stopping'
Pema Pera: anywhere anytime: just 9 seconds of stopping, yes, nothing more is needed!
Pema Pera: We say "nothing more is needed, because Being already IS"
Pema Pera: Sophia says "nothing more is needed because Allah already knows what is in your heart and mind"
Pema Pera: the effect can be the same
Pema Pera: though the words and theory sounds different
Pema Pera: in both cases: DROP
Pema Pera: don't try to reach, find out, gain -- just dropping is enough
stevenaia Michinaga: leaves quietly
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go too bye all :))
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia :)
Adams Dubrovna: bye Sophia :)
Eliza Madrigal: Dropping what you trust in can seem difficult when waters seem unknown... layers of questions... doubts
Adams Dubrovna nods to Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: And then arises that word faith I suppose :)
Adams Dubrovna: we all have experiences where it became painfully obvious later that all we had to do was dropt the idea
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Pema Pera: If you believe in a God, then the best way to open yourself for God is to drop your picture of what God is -- your picture sure is far too limited, and will not leave much room for Him to enter your heart
Pema Pera: stopping, dropping, all needed for opening
Adams Dubrovna is still very confused by God and/or Being
Pema Pera: what happens is you look for either one?
Pema Pera: does either one help you?
Adams Dubrovna: when I was young I could use God as a resource
Pema Pera: and now?
Adams Dubrovna: I hear you say that about Being
Adams Dubrovna: I haven't found that yet
Adams Dubrovna: I can use Love as a resource
Pema Pera: that's perfectly fine too!
Pema Pera: words are just labels
Pema Pera: and our picture of what any word points too is far too limited anyway
Pema Pera: once we open up to any of those, the rest will come -- like pulling at a corner of a tablecloth, any corner, and when you keep pulling all with come with it -- it will all come crashing down :-)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Pema Pera: your whole deck of cards of reservations and protective defensive layers
Pema Pera: Great talking with you again today!
Pema Pera: Off to lunch now :)
Adams Dubrovna: bye Pema :)

Eliza Madrigal: Adams, Sometimes If I think about god, i am not there and if I think about me god is not there...
Eliza Madrigal: Enjoy lunch Pema :) Bye
Adams Dubrovna: :) Eliza
Adams Dubrovna: there is wisdom in what you say :)
Eliza Madrigal: Not sure... but I think that's why transcendence resonates so strongly... seems in that place then borders dissolve...but staying there... ah! :)
Eliza Madrigal: and yet it isn't a place...so can't use words... hehehe
Adams Dubrovna: yes, but I think I understand what you are saying
Adams Dubrovna: if so, not only staying there but returning
Adams Dubrovna: it is not something we can do
Adams Dubrovna: we have to let it happen
Eliza Madrigal nods enthusiastically...yes, this is really IT
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :)
Adams Dubrovna: In a way it is a bit like when we used to worship
Adams Dubrovna: we went to a church
Adams Dubrovna: and then we had to get ourselves in the right frame of mind
Adams Dubrovna: and then we were ready for the service and the service would take us there
Eliza Madrigal nods...which is also what icons at home do, yes
Eliza Madrigal: what was required was to be in a place where that might happen
Adams Dubrovna: yes, eitther a physical or other place
Adams Dubrovna: on holy ground :)
Adams Dubrovna: any ground can be holy
Eliza Madrigal: a space of allowing which shows heart's desire
Adams Dubrovna nods
Adams Dubrovna: I must go get some sleep :)
Adams Dubrovna: Have a good night Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: That is a powerful thought, Adams...just beautiful. And hearkens back to the quote from Sophia that Pema gave of asking
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes I'm quite sleepy too :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night Adams :)
Adams Dubrovna: It has been a long day :)
Adams Dubrovna: good night
Eliza Madrigal: has it? hhehe
Adams Dubrovna: and bye to you Ninja when you come back :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, bye Ninja :)