2009.07.01 13:00 - The Challenge of Maintaining a Daily Practice

The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick!
Mickorod Renard: quiet tonite
Storm Nordwind: This is gen's slot, but there was no one here until a minute ago. So I thought I'd fill in.
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,emergency stand in
Qt Core: hi all
Storm Nordwind: That's the beauty, or otherwise, of my new HUD
Mickorod Renard: hi qt
Storm Nordwind: Hi Qt
Mickorod Renard: hi ara
Qt Core: hi ara
arabella Ella: hiya
Storm Nordwind: Hi ara
Mickorod Renard: is your new hud better than most?
arabella Ella: rezzing
Qt Core: like asking a cook if the food is good ;-)
arabella Ella: is this a smaller circle or is it me rezzing?
Mickorod Renard: are u still all black and blue Ara?
Storm Nordwind: No I don't mean a viewer. I just scripted one so I can see the attendance at all the Kira venues
Storm Nordwind: I contracted the circle ara
Mickorod Renard: a ha
arabella Ella: yes Mick still battered and bruised
Storm Nordwind: Better than contracting the flu
arabella Ella: oh i suspected as much Storm :)
arabella Ella: well i have the flu too :(
Mickorod Renard: ;(
Storm Nordwind: All guardians have the option of doing that
Storm Nordwind: Oh no ara! Sorry to hear that
Mickorod Renard: thankyou
arabella Ella: Storm I owe you an apology
Mickorod Renard: flu and she fell off motorbike
arabella Ella: for not continuing to attend your Kira sessions
arabella Ella: but I was travelling and working a bit too much to be able to cope
Storm Nordwind brushes it aside.
arabella Ella: and I actually feel I missed out on something very interesting ...
Storm Nordwind: I too am very busy. I understand.
arabella Ella: thanks :)
Mickorod Renard: how are you qt,,is it long before you travel?
arabella Ella: i have actually felt guilty about it and meant to apologise earlier
Qt Core: hi genesis
Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
arabella Ella: hiya Gen
Qt Core: quite good, 10 days, mick
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Qt, Mickorod, and Arabella and Storm!
Storm Nordwind: Now we have our guardian on call, I will go get a curry! :)
Mickorod Renard: ok,,i must remember to count down with u,,till take off
genesis Zhangsun: bye Storm!
genesis Zhangsun: thanks for covering
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Mickorod Renard: nameste
arabella Ella: bye storm
arabella Ella: where are you off to Qt?
Qt Core: far east for the 22/7 eclipse
Mickorod Renard: that sounds like a wonderful experience
arabella Ella: oh yes now i remember ... brilliant ... and your first time flying too right?
Qt Core: yes
arabella Ella: well i suggest you practice flying on SL ... joking
arabella Ella: and what i do on a plane when there is turbulence is go with the flow like being at a funfair
Mickorod Renard: yes..you want your monies worth of excitement
Qt Core: i will follow the advice of my two friend that are coming with me, those two are frequent traveller
arabella Ella: good
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Qt Core: that and a book (something like "great air disaster of the late XX century") may help ;-)
arabella Ella: Hiya Yak how are you tonite?
Mickorod Renard: hiya yaku
arabella Ella: Hey Qt you need a dose of positive thinking :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: my pc is crashing irregulary
Qt Core: hi Yak
Mickorod Renard: nice foot ware
arabella Ella: oh no now that's serious
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
Mickorod Renard: u only have one shoe on
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Yak
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
arabella Ella: who has only one shoe Mick?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i
Mickorod Renard: yaku
arabella Ella: oh
Yakuzza Lethecus: was there any topic ?
arabella Ella: is that delibarate Yak?
genesis Zhangsun: not really
genesis Zhangsun: would you like to pick one?
genesis Zhangsun: practice related
genesis Zhangsun: or anyone?
Mickorod Renard: erm
arabella Ella: i dont feel competent enough to pick a practice related topic Gen, perhaps you have a suggestion?
genesis Zhangsun: well it doesn't have to be practice related in a strict sense
Mickorod Renard: co dependant arising?
genesis Zhangsun: it can also just be about your life
Mickorod Renard: i see
Yakuzza Lethecus: I´ve been listening too a cd about progressive muscle relaxation training to relax better last evening.
genesis Zhangsun: what do you think about co dependant arising Mick?
genesis Zhangsun: what made you bring that up?
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I understand much
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just wanted to start a topic :P
Mickorod Renard: are you reading my mind?
Mickorod Renard: I need one of those cd's in my toilet
Qt Core: ist that relaxation the same thing as in yoga when wich each breath you can strech a little more/improve a little the position ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: It´s just going through the muscles in the body bringing as much tension on them and then stopping
Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing special but i wasn´t even thinking about some of the muscles before so it was at least interesting for a time
Yakuzza Lethecus: ups silenttime
Mickorod Renard: is it then the sensation of the relaxed state thats important to enjoy?
Yakuzza Lethecus: enjoying ?
arabella Ella: i like the way you say 'interesting for a time' Yak
Mickorod Renard: well,,discover the diference
Mickorod Renard: between stressed and relaxed
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s nothing special just one of many techniques maybe
arabella Ella: its funny how in life we often find things boring after some time and always strive towards new challenges, new things, new heights to conquer
Mickorod Renard: I know there are exersize routines ,,like pilates that do something similar,,but for muscle tone
Yakuzza Lethecus: only to relax muscles..., not to clear the mind like breathing, relaxing the tongue to think less
arabella Ella: and as a result life is full of ups and downs
arabella Ella: highs and lows
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not that competent in this kind of topics :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i became more interested in mediation techniques through the sessions here :P
arabella Ella: yes like most of us here i reckon Yak
Mickorod Renard: I noticed,,when I was younger,,that when my friends started visiting the gym etc,,is was usually when they had a woman that they wanted to impress
Mickorod Renard: motivation
arabella Ella: yes motivation is key for so many things we do in life
genesis Zhangsun: motivation for practice is especially key
genesis Zhangsun: how many of us have a regular meditation practice? I don't I keep falling off mine and each time I do I learn something
Qt Core: when i had the time for the gym the motivation was only one and well before my eyes... food, going to the gym or heavy diet
genesis Zhangsun: its tough to stay in a regular routine but it is so important
arabella Ella: could you tell us more Gen please?
Mickorod Renard: I am almost zero at meditation
genesis Zhangsun: why is that Mick, I ask that as a someone with the same problem.
Qt Core: i do not meditate yet, would like to start simetime
Mickorod Renard: well,,I may have alternatives that i do not call meditation,,but is a form of
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fef
arabella Ella: hiya fef
Qt Core: hi Fef
genesis Zhangsun: that you do at the same time everyday?
Fefonz Quan: Hey All :)
Mickorod Renard: too busy is my favorite excuse
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Fef
genesis Zhangsun: HI Fef
genesis Zhangsun: we are talking about daily practice
genesis Zhangsun: the challenge of getting into one
Mickorod Renard: I have always gotten lots from riding motorcycles
arabella Ella: and motivation
Qt Core: or lack of ;-)
Fefonz Quan: thanks, indeed a challenging issue
Mickorod Renard: a need to detach from normal thought
genesis Zhangsun: yes Mick that is true many things for me like yoga and swimming
genesis Zhangsun: have the same effect
genesis Zhangsun: as for you in riding a motorcycle
genesis Zhangsun: but are those things the same as meditation?
arabella Ella: what do you find motivates you most gen?
genesis Zhangsun: it is an open question one I would be interested in exploring here
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i do think of lots whilst riding,,but not of everyday type worries
Fefonz Quan: those things can be meditation and non-meditation, depending on how you do them
genesis Zhangsun: just to play devil's advocate Mick...
genesis Zhangsun: television could have the same effect
Mickorod Renard: thats true
genesis Zhangsun: in the sense that I am not thinking about anything
genesis Zhangsun: but I can't say tv and meditation have much in common
Fefonz Quan: but yoga might
Mickorod Renard: riding the m bike could also be an intoxification too
genesis Zhangsun: yes yoga might as in, it is about me connecting with my body
Qt Core: they have something in common... bad tv and bad meditation make you sleep ;-)
genesis Zhangsun: I think the intent to connect is a key point in meditation
genesis Zhangsun: but to what?
Fefonz Quan: and also, just be in the posture, nothing else, drop all other things
Fefonz Quan: i am not sure that connect is the main instruction i would use
genesis Zhangsun: what about intention
genesis Zhangsun: which goes back to motivation
genesis Zhangsun: without intention there is no practice or?
arabella Ella: what instruction would you use Fef rather than 'connect'?
Mickorod Renard: we almost got going on co dependant stuff a few fins ago Fef,,I think its linked
Fefonz Quan: once there is practice, the intention is not needed in a way, though in ordder to get into the pillow...
Fefonz Quan: Ara- rest, calm, drop, observe, dwell,be
arabella Ella: sounds good to me
genesis Zhangsun: but all that you have to effort to get yourself to do just that
genesis Zhangsun: *for all that
genesis Zhangsun: New question: Would anyone here like to do a regular practice but can't seem to?
Fefonz Quan: i agree, yet for me most of teh effort is in getting to the pillow, to the beginning of teh practice. then, within it, it is more dropping things than adding kinds of effort
genesis Zhangsun: yes Fef I agree
Fefonz Quan: i would like in a way
arabella Ella: yes
Mickorod Renard: I think so,,but also dont like making commitments I know I wont stick to
arabella Ella: but my question is
arabella Ella: what is the motivation one can draw upon to sustain such a practice over time?
genesis Zhangsun: yes good question arabella
genesis Zhangsun: the thing that is driving me to try a regular practice no matter how many times I fall off
arabella Ella: perhaps we need to spell out the benefits more coherently?
genesis Zhangsun: is that I know I am getting lost without one
genesis Zhangsun: when I fall off of practice I feel like a different person
arabella Ella nods
genesis Zhangsun: as though I went back to sleep
genesis Zhangsun: really and the awake part of me is going-"hey why are we back here again"
genesis Zhangsun: once you start you can't go back
Fefonz Quan: yes, i see also in other areas that some scheduled hours for practicing are very helpful
arabella Ella: so Gen inside yourself you see the benefits?
Qt Core: i just know i was different (better) when i did some youga , even only once a week
genesis Zhangsun: yes I think yoga has a similar effect to meditation
genesis Zhangsun: *as
genesis Zhangsun: yes Ara I saw the benefits but nevertheless I continue to fall off
Fefonz Quan: in my experience, meditation works deeper on the mind level
genesis Zhangsun: I have yet to stablize a practice
genesis Zhangsun: what about you Ara?
arabella Ella: what is it that motivates you Fef to sustain your practice?
genesis Zhangsun: hehe cross questioning :)
arabella Ella: he he
Fefonz Quan: well, i don't have a regular meditation practice :)
arabella Ella: at the moment ... speaking of myself ... difficult to tell as i am ill with flu and an injury and have no energy at all at the moment
Fefonz Quan: i do go (most times) to a weekly buddhist group
Fefonz Quan: and also in PaB there are more chances to practice shortly
arabella Ella: what is it that motivates you to go to the buddhist group Fef then?
arabella Ella: (maybe I am looking for the right motivation?)
Fefonz Quan: In a way i see teh meditation, exploring time and the mind, as a part of my life
arabella Ella nods
Fefonz Quan: in interests me both on the intelectual and practical levels
genesis Zhangsun: I agree with you Ara, my mind wants reasons to do it
arabella Ella: don't get me wrong though I am also curious to understand more
Fefonz Quan: and then, here and there, one bumps into situations that can be looked upon afterwards and say:' that was a good implementation of the practice'
arabella Ella: why did you say 'intellectual' level Fef? could you expand on that?
Fefonz Quan: get a little smile of contentment (not too large to risk the pride path ;-)) and go on
arabella Ella: he he
Fefonz Quan: intellectual level - in teh sense that many things we talk about here, and also in buddhism and other traditions, are fascinating conceptually.
arabella Ella: true
Fefonz Quan: So both the mind and the heart are getting their small dose of content :)
genesis Zhangsun: must be going!
genesis Zhangsun: thanks everyone
arabella Ella: bye gen
arabella Ella: good to c u here tonite
Fefonz Quan: bye Gen, c u soon
Qt Core: bye gen
Mickorod Renard: bye gen
Fefonz Quan: and there is also another ingredient i believe -
arabella Ella: i like the way you mention both heart and mind Fef ... both so important
Fefonz Quan: there are those small sparks of insight getting your way, that makes one say 'that is true, that is pointing to the right direction'
Fefonz Quan: and they also give more motivation to get along
arabella Ella: do you mean ... as in ... finding the right balance in life?
Fefonz Quan: i meant much more sharp and momentary blinks
arabella Ella: ok
Fefonz Quan: not to say the overall balance is important too
Fefonz Quan: (not)
Fefonz Quan: (is not*)
arabella Ella: you mean really sharp insights about life?
Fefonz Quan: about the way things are
arabella Ella: ok
Mickorod Renard: staying with those insites are dificult Fef,,is this where u think regular meditation can keep u reminded of the insites?
Mickorod Renard: insights
Fefonz Quan: i believe so, and also i think there is some non-linearity property hanging in those realms
arabella Ella: and ... if i am not being too forward ... may i ask if it is possible to listen to one example of such an insight about the way things are please?
Mickorod Renard: perhaps u can describe co dependant to Ara Fef?
Fefonz Quan: not sure that's what Ara asked Mick
Fefonz Quan: :)
arabella Ella: i would not mind both questions answered if poss?
arabella Ella smiles at everyone's patience ...
Fefonz Quan: one insight can be, for example, when you see that the words someone is saying to you are not the reason you get angry
Fefonz Quan: or when you manage to let go of one thing 'view, view of a person, etc.' that made you suffer, and then it is comletely gone
arabella Ella: it sounds so simple ... but is it really so simple Fef?
Fefonz Quan: or when you see that you are not your thoughts
Fefonz Quan: didn't promise no one a rose garden :) who said simple?
Fefonz Quan: and btw - when it is done - it is surprisingly simple.
arabella Ella smiles
arabella Ella: but ok if it is not the words that make me angry ... what is it?
arabella Ella: or what could it be?
arabella Ella: (experienced such a situation today)
Mickorod Renard: frustation you didnt get your way?
arabella Ella: no
arabella Ella: not in my case
arabella Ella: what made me angry was the distortion of facts
Mickorod Renard: annoyed you couldnt get your own back
arabella Ella: twisting the truth to suit someone's agenda
Mickorod Renard: ok,,annoyed u didnt get chance to clarify
arabella Ella: i dont need to get my own back Mick ... ever
Fefonz Quan: Yes, one of the things that makes us most angry is when other people don't behave like we think they should
arabella Ella: no ... annoyed others may not listen or choose not to listen or choose to distort
Mickorod Renard: I am just thinking options
arabella Ella: so should we allow for irrational behaviour that causes chaos or problems?
Mickorod Renard: identifying this is happening allows you an insight to that of knowing othrers have other adgenda's not compliant with ours
arabella Ella: conflict for me is a waste of energy ... yet it seems like some people thrive on creating unnecessary conflicts ... when life could be so much more pleasant if those conflicts were to be avoided
Fefonz Quan: yes, but can we see those conflicts as a part of life?
Fefonz Quan: can we accept what is, before acting upon it?
Mickorod Renard: but there must be questions as to why they are folowing another path?
Mickorod Renard: understanding this could be an insight
arabella Ella: how Fef? please explain more ...
Qt Core: are they following the power way and not the knowledge one ?
arabella Ella: yes Qt
Fefonz Quan: one insight that helped me a lot mick, was - i deal with my issues, they deal with theirs. Why should i deal with others before overxcoming mine?
Qt Core: as they have plans for you
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i am comming to terms with this too,,and I have been frustrated
arabella Ella: yes QT, plans to 'trip' me
Mickorod Renard: I am now becomming more dealing with my issues only
arabella Ella: to look good at my expense
Qt Core: or using you as a ladder
Fefonz Quan: another can be - see that those following the power path are afraid of something, suffering from something, and that is their frightened way to deal with it
arabella Ella: maybe
Qt Core: it could be
Fefonz Quan: sure we all agree this is very frustrating ara, i
Fefonz Quan: and we all suffer from such behaviour, and find hard times get over it.
arabella Ella: yes i see that Fef, that they suffer from somthing ... but how to deal with it ... how to react or not
arabella Ella: yes
Fefonz Quan: it is so hard to know, Ara, i am not sure we can answer it here.
Mickorod Renard: I think,,what would be important is removing your suffering Ara
Fefonz Quan: maybe one more thing to see, is that getting angry is not helping, it is you paying for their deeds
arabella Ella: maybe
arabella Ella: but believe me Ara very rarely gets angry
Fefonz Quan: and there is even a way to act decisively and effectively, without getting the anger involved
arabella Ella nods
Fefonz Quan: or - let the anger be, and don't follow it forward, don't fuel teh fire with more thoughts, 'inside talks' etc. let it burn and fade away
arabella Ella nods
Fefonz Quan: other wise (and that i know from experience :)) - one can get angry of being angry, and get annoyed by not dealing with that anger, and it goes on forever
arabella Ella: yes very true
arabella Ella: for me though it is all a waste of energy on conflicts, energy that could be spent more positively elsewhere
arabella Ella: so perhaps that is part of the frustration too
Fefonz Quan: could be is teh little devil ;-)
arabella Ella: and as you said ... not having things work out the way they should ... which hardly every happens
arabella Ella smiles
Fefonz Quan: and this is another reason to get back to teh meditation practice
arabella Ella: true
Fefonz Quan: to practice dwelling with how things are, not how they could be.
arabella Ella: very much so
arabella Ella: yes
Qt Core: sleeptime!
Fefonz Quan: Good night Qt!
Qt Core: 'night everyone
arabella Ella: nite QT
Mickorod Renard: nite qt
arabella Ella: brb
Fefonz Quan: we brought up some pointers for the practice motivation, and i believe the last one is the most valid of them
Mickorod Renard: can u remind me which one Fef?
Fefonz Quan: we practice to be with what is, not with what should be.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,ok thought so
Fefonz Quan: (could)
Mickorod Renard: this is similar to what we were doin with Stim
Fefonz Quan: the 3 views?
Mickorod Renard: I think so
Fefonz Quan: yes i thought so too.
Fefonz Quan: maybe we should remark, that we talk here about quite certain ways of meditation, where surely there are others with differents dorections and goals.
Fefonz Quan: directions*
Mickorod Renard: yes, we should remember that any example is an example,,and there can be ways to apply to broader individual cases
Mickorod Renard: like for eg,,my situation over selling my home
arabella Ella: back
Fefonz Quan: wb
Fefonz Quan: could you say more?
Mickorod Renard: well,,I am blaming the fact that i am not enjoying myself to its full extent because I am waiting for something positive to happen in the future,,my house sale
Fefonz Quan: yes, right
Mickorod Renard: but the house sale is at present not reality,,so therefore i should focus on the present and enjoy what i have
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Mickorod Renard: this can be applied on a wide variety of problems we have
Mickorod Renard: an issue at work or a family issue
Fefonz Quan: yes it is.
Mickorod Renard: we could say that the world will end in 10 years,,so whats the point in say,,getting married or whatever
arabella Ella: i must go bye everyone
arabella Ella: nite
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night
Mickorod Renard: bye aRA
Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
Fefonz Quan: bye ara
Mickorod Renard: BUT LIVE FOR WHAT IS,,NOT WHAT MAY BE
Mickorod Renard: oops,,didnt mean to shout
Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,I must go too,,early start in the morning
Fefonz Quan: night Mick
Mickorod Renard: nite