2009.07.01 13:00 - The Challenge of Maintaining a Daily Practice

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

    Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick!
    Mickorod Renard: quiet tonite
    Storm Nordwind: This is gen's slot, but there was no one here until a minute ago. So I thought I'd fill in.
    Mickorod Renard: he he ,,emergency stand in
    Qt Core: hi all
    Storm Nordwind: That's the beauty, or otherwise, of my new HUD
    Mickorod Renard: hi qt
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Qt
    Mickorod Renard: hi ara
    Qt Core: hi ara
    arabella Ella: hiya
    Storm Nordwind: Hi ara
    Mickorod Renard: is your new hud better than most?
    arabella Ella: rezzing
    Qt Core: like asking a cook if the food is good ;-)
    arabella Ella: is this a smaller circle or is it me rezzing?
    Mickorod Renard: are u still all black and blue Ara?
    Storm Nordwind: No I don't mean a viewer. I just scripted one so I can see the attendance at all the Kira venues
    Storm Nordwind: I contracted the circle ara
    Mickorod Renard: a ha
    arabella Ella: yes Mick still battered and bruised
    Storm Nordwind: Better than contracting the flu
    arabella Ella: oh i suspected as much Storm :)
    arabella Ella: well i have the flu too :(
    Mickorod Renard: ;(
    Storm Nordwind: All guardians have the option of doing that
    Storm Nordwind: Oh no ara! Sorry to hear that
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou
    arabella Ella: Storm I owe you an apology
    Mickorod Renard: flu and she fell off motorbike
    arabella Ella: for not continuing to attend your Kira sessions
    arabella Ella: but I was travelling and working a bit too much to be able to cope
    Storm Nordwind brushes it aside.
    arabella Ella: and I actually feel I missed out on something very interesting ...
    Storm Nordwind: I too am very busy. I understand.
    arabella Ella: thanks :)
    Mickorod Renard: how are you qt,,is it long before you travel?
    arabella Ella: i have actually felt guilty about it and meant to apologise earlier
    Qt Core: hi genesis
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Gen
    arabella Ella: hiya Gen
    Qt Core: quite good, 10 days, mick
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Qt, Mickorod, and Arabella and Storm!
    Storm Nordwind: Now we have our guardian on call, I will go get a curry! :)
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,i must remember to count down with u,,till take off
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Storm!
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks for covering
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    Mickorod Renard: nameste
    arabella Ella: bye storm
    arabella Ella: where are you off to Qt?
    Qt Core: far east for the 22/7 eclipse
    Mickorod Renard: that sounds like a wonderful experience
    arabella Ella: oh yes now i remember ... brilliant ... and your first time flying too right?
    Qt Core: yes
    arabella Ella: well i suggest you practice flying on SL ... joking
    arabella Ella: and what i do on a plane when there is turbulence is go with the flow like being at a funfair
    Mickorod Renard: yes..you want your monies worth of excitement
    Qt Core: i will follow the advice of my two friend that are coming with me, those two are frequent traveller
    arabella Ella: good
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Qt Core: that and a book (something like "great air disaster of the late XX century") may help ;-)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Yak how are you tonite?
    Mickorod Renard: hiya yaku
    arabella Ella: Hey Qt you need a dose of positive thinking :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my pc is crashing irregulary
    Qt Core: hi Yak
    Mickorod Renard: nice foot ware
    arabella Ella: oh no now that's serious
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
    Mickorod Renard: u only have one shoe on
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
    arabella Ella: who has only one shoe Mick?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i
    Mickorod Renard: yaku
    arabella Ella: oh
    Yakuzza Lethecus: was there any topic ?
    arabella Ella: is that delibarate Yak?
    genesis Zhangsun: not really
    genesis Zhangsun: would you like to pick one?
    genesis Zhangsun: practice related
    genesis Zhangsun: or anyone?
    Mickorod Renard: erm
    arabella Ella: i dont feel competent enough to pick a practice related topic Gen, perhaps you have a suggestion?
    genesis Zhangsun: well it doesn't have to be practice related in a strict sense
    Mickorod Renard: co dependant arising?
    genesis Zhangsun: it can also just be about your life
    Mickorod Renard: i see
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I´ve been listening too a cd about progressive muscle relaxation training to relax better last evening.
    genesis Zhangsun: what do you think about co dependant arising Mick?
    genesis Zhangsun: what made you bring that up?
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I understand much
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just wanted to start a topic :P
    Mickorod Renard: are you reading my mind?
    Mickorod Renard: I need one of those cd's in my toilet
    Qt Core: ist that relaxation the same thing as in yoga when wich each breath you can strech a little more/improve a little the position ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: It´s just going through the muscles in the body bringing as much tension on them and then stopping
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing special but i wasn´t even thinking about some of the muscles before so it was at least interesting for a time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ups silenttime
    Mickorod Renard: is it then the sensation of the relaxed state thats important to enjoy?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: enjoying ?
    arabella Ella: i like the way you say 'interesting for a time' Yak
    Mickorod Renard: well,,discover the diference
    Mickorod Renard: between stressed and relaxed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s nothing special just one of many techniques maybe
    arabella Ella: its funny how in life we often find things boring after some time and always strive towards new challenges, new things, new heights to conquer
    Mickorod Renard: I know there are exersize routines ,,like pilates that do something similar,,but for muscle tone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only to relax muscles..., not to clear the mind like breathing, relaxing the tongue to think less
    arabella Ella: and as a result life is full of ups and downs
    arabella Ella: highs and lows
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not that competent in this kind of topics :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i became more interested in mediation techniques through the sessions here :P
    arabella Ella: yes like most of us here i reckon Yak
    Mickorod Renard: I noticed,,when I was younger,,that when my friends started visiting the gym etc,,is was usually when they had a woman that they wanted to impress
    Mickorod Renard: motivation
    arabella Ella: yes motivation is key for so many things we do in life
    genesis Zhangsun: motivation for practice is especially key
    genesis Zhangsun: how many of us have a regular meditation practice? I don't I keep falling off mine and each time I do I learn something
    Qt Core: when i had the time for the gym the motivation was only one and well before my eyes... food, going to the gym or heavy diet
    genesis Zhangsun: its tough to stay in a regular routine but it is so important
    arabella Ella: could you tell us more Gen please?
    Mickorod Renard: I am almost zero at meditation
    genesis Zhangsun: why is that Mick, I ask that as a someone with the same problem.
    Qt Core: i do not meditate yet, would like to start simetime
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I may have alternatives that i do not call meditation,,but is a form of
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fef
    arabella Ella: hiya fef
    Qt Core: hi Fef
    genesis Zhangsun: that you do at the same time everyday?
    Fefonz Quan: Hey All :)
    Mickorod Renard: too busy is my favorite excuse
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Fef
    genesis Zhangsun: HI Fef
    genesis Zhangsun: we are talking about daily practice
    genesis Zhangsun: the challenge of getting into one
    Mickorod Renard: I have always gotten lots from riding motorcycles
    arabella Ella: and motivation
    Qt Core: or lack of ;-)
    Fefonz Quan: thanks, indeed a challenging issue
    Mickorod Renard: a need to detach from normal thought
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Mick that is true many things for me like yoga and swimming
    genesis Zhangsun: have the same effect
    genesis Zhangsun: as for you in riding a motorcycle
    genesis Zhangsun: but are those things the same as meditation?
    arabella Ella: what do you find motivates you most gen?
    genesis Zhangsun: it is an open question one I would be interested in exploring here
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i do think of lots whilst riding,,but not of everyday type worries
    Fefonz Quan: those things can be meditation and non-meditation, depending on how you do them
    genesis Zhangsun: just to play devil's advocate Mick...
    genesis Zhangsun: television could have the same effect
    Mickorod Renard: thats true
    genesis Zhangsun: in the sense that I am not thinking about anything
    genesis Zhangsun: but I can't say tv and meditation have much in common
    Fefonz Quan: but yoga might
    Mickorod Renard: riding the m bike could also be an intoxification too
    genesis Zhangsun: yes yoga might as in, it is about me connecting with my body
    Qt Core: they have something in common... bad tv and bad meditation make you sleep ;-)
    genesis Zhangsun: I think the intent to connect is a key point in meditation
    genesis Zhangsun: but to what?
    Fefonz Quan: and also, just be in the posture, nothing else, drop all other things
    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure that connect is the main instruction i would use
    genesis Zhangsun: what about intention
    genesis Zhangsun: which goes back to motivation
    genesis Zhangsun: without intention there is no practice or?
    arabella Ella: what instruction would you use Fef rather than 'connect'?
    Mickorod Renard: we almost got going on co dependant stuff a few fins ago Fef,,I think its linked
    Fefonz Quan: once there is practice, the intention is not needed in a way, though in ordder to get into the pillow...
    Fefonz Quan: Ara- rest, calm, drop, observe, dwell,be
    arabella Ella: sounds good to me
    genesis Zhangsun: but all that you have to effort to get yourself to do just that
    genesis Zhangsun: *for all that
    genesis Zhangsun: New question: Would anyone here like to do a regular practice but can't seem to?
    Fefonz Quan: i agree, yet for me most of teh effort is in getting to the pillow, to the beginning of teh practice. then, within it, it is more dropping things than adding kinds of effort
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Fef I agree
    Fefonz Quan: i would like in a way
    arabella Ella: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I think so,,but also dont like making commitments I know I wont stick to
    arabella Ella: but my question is
    arabella Ella: what is the motivation one can draw upon to sustain such a practice over time?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes good question arabella
    genesis Zhangsun: the thing that is driving me to try a regular practice no matter how many times I fall off
    arabella Ella: perhaps we need to spell out the benefits more coherently?
    genesis Zhangsun: is that I know I am getting lost without one
    genesis Zhangsun: when I fall off of practice I feel like a different person
    arabella Ella nods
    genesis Zhangsun: as though I went back to sleep
    genesis Zhangsun: really and the awake part of me is going-"hey why are we back here again"
    genesis Zhangsun: once you start you can't go back
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i see also in other areas that some scheduled hours for practicing are very helpful
    arabella Ella: so Gen inside yourself you see the benefits?
    Qt Core: i just know i was different (better) when i did some youga , even only once a week
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I think yoga has a similar effect to meditation
    genesis Zhangsun: *as
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Ara I saw the benefits but nevertheless I continue to fall off
    Fefonz Quan: in my experience, meditation works deeper on the mind level
    genesis Zhangsun: I have yet to stablize a practice
    genesis Zhangsun: what about you Ara?
    arabella Ella: what is it that motivates you Fef to sustain your practice?
    genesis Zhangsun: hehe cross questioning :)
    arabella Ella: he he
    Fefonz Quan: well, i don't have a regular meditation practice :)
    arabella Ella: at the moment ... speaking of myself ... difficult to tell as i am ill with flu and an injury and have no energy at all at the moment
    Fefonz Quan: i do go (most times) to a weekly buddhist group
    Fefonz Quan: and also in PaB there are more chances to practice shortly
    arabella Ella: what is it that motivates you to go to the buddhist group Fef then?
    arabella Ella: (maybe I am looking for the right motivation?)
    Fefonz Quan: In a way i see teh meditation, exploring time and the mind, as a part of my life
    arabella Ella nods
    Fefonz Quan: in interests me both on the intelectual and practical levels
    genesis Zhangsun: I agree with you Ara, my mind wants reasons to do it
    arabella Ella: don't get me wrong though I am also curious to understand more
    Fefonz Quan: and then, here and there, one bumps into situations that can be looked upon afterwards and say:' that was a good implementation of the practice'
    arabella Ella: why did you say 'intellectual' level Fef? could you expand on that?
    Fefonz Quan: get a little smile of contentment (not too large to risk the pride path ;-)) and go on
    arabella Ella: he he
    Fefonz Quan: intellectual level - in teh sense that many things we talk about here, and also in buddhism and other traditions, are fascinating conceptually.
    arabella Ella: true
    Fefonz Quan: So both the mind and the heart are getting their small dose of content :)
    genesis Zhangsun: must be going!
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks everyone
    arabella Ella: bye gen
    arabella Ella: good to c u here tonite
    Fefonz Quan: bye Gen, c u soon
    Qt Core: bye gen
    Mickorod Renard: bye gen
    Fefonz Quan: and there is also another ingredient i believe -
    arabella Ella: i like the way you mention both heart and mind Fef ... both so important
    Fefonz Quan: there are those small sparks of insight getting your way, that makes one say 'that is true, that is pointing to the right direction'
    Fefonz Quan: and they also give more motivation to get along
    arabella Ella: do you mean ... as in ... finding the right balance in life?
    Fefonz Quan: i meant much more sharp and momentary blinks
    arabella Ella: ok
    Fefonz Quan: not to say the overall balance is important too
    Fefonz Quan: (not)
    Fefonz Quan: (is not*)
    arabella Ella: you mean really sharp insights about life?
    Fefonz Quan: about the way things are
    arabella Ella: ok
    Mickorod Renard: staying with those insites are dificult Fef,,is this where u think regular meditation can keep u reminded of the insites?
    Mickorod Renard: insights
    Fefonz Quan: i believe so, and also i think there is some non-linearity property hanging in those realms
    arabella Ella: and ... if i am not being too forward ... may i ask if it is possible to listen to one example of such an insight about the way things are please?
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps u can describe co dependant to Ara Fef?
    Fefonz Quan: not sure that's what Ara asked Mick
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    arabella Ella: i would not mind both questions answered if poss?
    arabella Ella smiles at everyone's patience ...
    Fefonz Quan: one insight can be, for example, when you see that the words someone is saying to you are not the reason you get angry
    Fefonz Quan: or when you manage to let go of one thing 'view, view of a person, etc.' that made you suffer, and then it is comletely gone
    arabella Ella: it sounds so simple ... but is it really so simple Fef?
    Fefonz Quan: or when you see that you are not your thoughts
    Fefonz Quan: didn't promise no one a rose garden :) who said simple?
    Fefonz Quan: and btw - when it is done - it is surprisingly simple.
    arabella Ella smiles
    arabella Ella: but ok if it is not the words that make me angry ... what is it?
    arabella Ella: or what could it be?
    arabella Ella: (experienced such a situation today)
    Mickorod Renard: frustation you didnt get your way?
    arabella Ella: no
    arabella Ella: not in my case
    arabella Ella: what made me angry was the distortion of facts
    Mickorod Renard: annoyed you couldnt get your own back
    arabella Ella: twisting the truth to suit someone's agenda
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,annoyed u didnt get chance to clarify
    arabella Ella: i dont need to get my own back Mick ... ever
    Fefonz Quan: Yes, one of the things that makes us most angry is when other people don't behave like we think they should
    arabella Ella: no ... annoyed others may not listen or choose not to listen or choose to distort
    Mickorod Renard: I am just thinking options
    arabella Ella: so should we allow for irrational behaviour that causes chaos or problems?
    Mickorod Renard: identifying this is happening allows you an insight to that of knowing othrers have other adgenda's not compliant with ours
    arabella Ella: conflict for me is a waste of energy ... yet it seems like some people thrive on creating unnecessary conflicts ... when life could be so much more pleasant if those conflicts were to be avoided
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but can we see those conflicts as a part of life?
    Fefonz Quan: can we accept what is, before acting upon it?
    Mickorod Renard: but there must be questions as to why they are folowing another path?
    Mickorod Renard: understanding this could be an insight
    arabella Ella: how Fef? please explain more ...
    Qt Core: are they following the power way and not the knowledge one ?
    arabella Ella: yes Qt
    Fefonz Quan: one insight that helped me a lot mick, was - i deal with my issues, they deal with theirs. Why should i deal with others before overxcoming mine?
    Qt Core: as they have plans for you
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i am comming to terms with this too,,and I have been frustrated
    arabella Ella: yes QT, plans to 'trip' me
    Mickorod Renard: I am now becomming more dealing with my issues only
    arabella Ella: to look good at my expense
    Qt Core: or using you as a ladder
    Fefonz Quan: another can be - see that those following the power path are afraid of something, suffering from something, and that is their frightened way to deal with it
    arabella Ella: maybe
    Qt Core: it could be
    Fefonz Quan: sure we all agree this is very frustrating ara, i
    Fefonz Quan: and we all suffer from such behaviour, and find hard times get over it.
    arabella Ella: yes i see that Fef, that they suffer from somthing ... but how to deal with it ... how to react or not
    arabella Ella: yes
    Fefonz Quan: it is so hard to know, Ara, i am not sure we can answer it here.
    Mickorod Renard: I think,,what would be important is removing your suffering Ara
    Fefonz Quan: maybe one more thing to see, is that getting angry is not helping, it is you paying for their deeds
    arabella Ella: maybe
    arabella Ella: but believe me Ara very rarely gets angry
    Fefonz Quan: and there is even a way to act decisively and effectively, without getting the anger involved
    arabella Ella nods
    Fefonz Quan: or - let the anger be, and don't follow it forward, don't fuel teh fire with more thoughts, 'inside talks' etc. let it burn and fade away
    arabella Ella nods
    Fefonz Quan: other wise (and that i know from experience :)) - one can get angry of being angry, and get annoyed by not dealing with that anger, and it goes on forever
    arabella Ella: yes very true
    arabella Ella: for me though it is all a waste of energy on conflicts, energy that could be spent more positively elsewhere
    arabella Ella: so perhaps that is part of the frustration too
    Fefonz Quan: could be is teh little devil ;-)
    arabella Ella: and as you said ... not having things work out the way they should ... which hardly every happens
    arabella Ella smiles
    Fefonz Quan: and this is another reason to get back to teh meditation practice
    arabella Ella: true
    Fefonz Quan: to practice dwelling with how things are, not how they could be.
    arabella Ella: very much so
    arabella Ella: yes
    Qt Core: sleeptime!
    Fefonz Quan: Good night Qt!
    Qt Core: 'night everyone
    arabella Ella: nite QT
    Mickorod Renard: nite qt
    arabella Ella: brb
    Fefonz Quan: we brought up some pointers for the practice motivation, and i believe the last one is the most valid of them
    Mickorod Renard: can u remind me which one Fef?
    Fefonz Quan: we practice to be with what is, not with what should be.
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,ok thought so
    Fefonz Quan: (could)
    Mickorod Renard: this is similar to what we were doin with Stim
    Fefonz Quan: the 3 views?
    Mickorod Renard: I think so
    Fefonz Quan: yes i thought so too.
    Fefonz Quan: maybe we should remark, that we talk here about quite certain ways of meditation, where surely there are others with differents dorections and goals.
    Fefonz Quan: directions*
    Mickorod Renard: yes, we should remember that any example is an example,,and there can be ways to apply to broader individual cases
    Mickorod Renard: like for eg,,my situation over selling my home
    arabella Ella: back
    Fefonz Quan: wb
    Fefonz Quan: could you say more?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I am blaming the fact that i am not enjoying myself to its full extent because I am waiting for something positive to happen in the future,,my house sale
    Fefonz Quan: yes, right
    Mickorod Renard: but the house sale is at present not reality,,so therefore i should focus on the present and enjoy what i have
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Mickorod Renard: this can be applied on a wide variety of problems we have
    Mickorod Renard: an issue at work or a family issue
    Fefonz Quan: yes it is.
    Mickorod Renard: we could say that the world will end in 10 years,,so whats the point in say,,getting married or whatever
    arabella Ella: i must go bye everyone
    arabella Ella: nite
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night
    Mickorod Renard: bye aRA
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
    Fefonz Quan: bye ara
    Mickorod Renard: oops,,didnt mean to shout
    Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,I must go too,,early start in the morning
    Fefonz Quan: night Mick
    Mickorod Renard: nite
    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core