2009.07.06 01:00 - Isn't it always about mind?

The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Nymf :)
Nymf Hathaway: Good morning Gaya :) I crashed my graphics card an hour ago so everything is realllllllllly slow :(
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :(
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope otherwise well?
Nymf Hathaway: Yes and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes thank you :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
Nymf Hathaway: Good day Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Girls
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
Tarmel Udimo: Good just got home:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Good thanks. It's finally cooler now :)
Gaya Ethaniel: [weather]
Nymf Hathaway: ah yes
Nymf Hathaway: same here
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: humm getting colder:(
Nymf Hathaway: well for us that's wonderful...it has been too hot for too long :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Tarmel Udimo: BRB
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Gaya Ethaniel: I experienced a sort of temporary 'acclimatisation' on Saturday.
Nymf Hathaway: oh and how was that, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: Was sitting in a very small theatre, extremely hot with lights ... after a few minutes, I kind of got used to the temperature inside.
Gaya Ethaniel: Partly I stopped thinking it is hot :)
Nymf Hathaway: That must have given some relief :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Though I'm sure I'd have got hot and bothered if I had to walk about energetically like the actors :)
Tarmel Udimo: back again, needed a cup of tea:)
Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Nymf Hathaway: welcome back (and notes again... the graphics card crashed so she is on a really slow client)
Tarmel Udimo: that's too bad, I haven't upgraded my SL software yet, I am afraid to as the last time I lost all my files.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :(
Nymf Hathaway: yes can imagine :(
Tarmel Udimo: found them eventually but the upgrade had done weird things to the file management
Tarmel Udimo: how's Stim's workshops been?
Nymf Hathaway: I haven't been able to make them, sadly enough
Tarmel Udimo: me neither, but I hope to be able to tomorrow
Gaya Ethaniel: This week's homework was about mind :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Workshops are great :)
Tarmel Udimo: isn't it always about mind:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Nymf Hathaway: Thank you Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: yw :)
Tarmel Udimo: ty Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: We had a very intense conversation on this yesterday.
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Tarmel Udimo: are you keeping transcripts?
Gaya Ethaniel: We don't log those :)
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Basically it is a difficult question and so there was lots of thinking going on.
Tarmel Udimo: so are you meant to observe the mind before its a mind so to speak
Tarmel Udimo: ie functioning with thoughts
Gaya Ethaniel: mm ... I understood the question as this - "Is the mind more fundamental than thoughts?"
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Or "the existence of the mind co-depends on thoughts?"
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think? :)
Tarmel Udimo: I think the small minds is co-dependent on thoughts
Tarmel Udimo: mind
Tarmel Udimo: and yet when it is at peace it still feels like it is there
Gaya Ethaniel: Tarmel, we can discuss changing the time if you are keen to come along for those informal gatherings.
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Tarmel Udimo: ty, but let me see if I can make it to Stim's session first, which is tomorrow?
Tarmel Udimo: what do you think btw?
Gaya Ethaniel: So far Sun 2 pm SLT is working well. Mon is tough for some.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Gaya Ethaniel: I agree with you Tarmel. The mind has ability/capacity that doesn't seem to depend on arising of thoughts.
Tarmel Udimo: hummm
Gaya Ethaniel: I find the mind something similar to body in a way.
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Gaya Ethaniel: Body and sensations vs. the mind and thoughts.
Gaya Ethaniel: The existence of body doesn't depend on sensations.
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Yet there is a close interaction between body and sensations.
Gaya Ethaniel: To a degree body can change, in return affect how it feels etc.
Gaya Ethaniel: The processing functions of body also doesn't depend on sensations imo.
Tarmel Udimo: nods,
Tarmel Udimo: I guess the question is if there was no mind would we still suffer
Gaya Ethaniel: The ability is there before encountering sensations ... something like that.
Gaya Ethaniel: No mind or no thoughts?
Nymf Hathaway: Shall log off...feels as if she entered a stone-age sl version :( wishing the two of you a nice talk :)
Tarmel Udimo: well no mind, we know thoughts create emotions and suffering but if there is a fundamental mind what does it do, what effect does it have if any?
Gaya Ethaniel: ok :( have a good day Nymf and see you soon.
Tarmel Udimo: bye Nymf
Nymf Hathaway: bye bye
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think thoughts create emotions and suffering always?
Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe related emotions but not sure about suffering.
Tarmel Udimo: yes I think so
Tarmel Udimo: we only suffer because we cling to what we think reality is and the way we think it should be
Gaya Ethaniel: Remembering something pleasant for example is a thought ... no suffering there.
Tarmel Udimo: perceptions of yourself and others, these are all thoughts
Tarmel Udimo: the suffering can follow after if we cling to the emotion or try to extend it past its natural time, or feel the sense of not pleasant a sense of loss
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes so it's not necessary ...
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't think thoughts themselves are the culprits.
Tarmel Udimo: no?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I think how we interact with thoughts is something that need our attention maybe.
Tarmel Udimo: it's what we do with them, how we respond to them
Tarmel Udimo: we agree
Gaya Ethaniel: Thoughts are ... just series of information in a way.
Tarmel Udimo: but often thoughts are programmed
Gaya Ethaniel: Some nice, some not so nice ...
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: and we don't even know why we think a certain way
Gaya Ethaniel: But the frame of the mind, starting with nice, not nice ... these kind of thinking affects how we respond to them perhaps.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: agree
Gaya Ethaniel: Is that also a thought?
Gaya Ethaniel: Drawing a line to categorise this is nice and this isn't.
Gaya Ethaniel: That feels like an action to me rather than static thought ...
Tarmel Udimo: I think the action/reaction happens after
Gaya Ethaniel: The mind is doing the action ... hm ...
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... I need to think about this a bit more.
Tarmel Udimo: me too:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: but it's fun - the mind trying to figure itself out:)
Gaya Ethaniel: I can't shake off the feeling that the mind lies dormant even without thoughts.
Gaya Ethaniel: Someone said the issue is we are trying to see the mind by using the mind heheheh
Tarmel Udimo: yes and yet there must be a way to see clearly and it must be a 'higher' faculty of the mind
Gaya Ethaniel: Or something that lies dormant isn't the samsaric mind ... hm ...
Tarmel Udimo: unless there is another mind
Tarmel Udimo: I mean what is seeing clearly?
Tarmel Udimo: some aspect of ourselves must be doing the seeing
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: Who is seeing?
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: yes the big question
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure :)
Tarmel Udimo: me neither:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: well I must go
Tarmel Udimo: it's been great talking with you Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for joining me :) Enjoy your evening Tarmel.
Tarmel Udimo: hopefully I'll make it tomorrow
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope so :)
Tarmel Udimo: if not see you next time:)
Gaya Ethaniel: It's on Thursday btw
Gaya Ethaniel: Not tomorrow
Tarmel Udimo: oh not tomorrow?
Tarmel Udimo: ty ahh its Stim's PaB session
Gaya Ethaniel: Today yes :)
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Gaya Ethaniel: 1 pm SLT
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope I can make it too.
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Tarmel Udimo: might see you there
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: bye for now:)
Gaya Ethaniel waves.