2009.07.06 01:00 - Isn't it always about mind?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Nymf :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Good morning Gaya :) I crashed my graphics card an hour ago so everything is realllllllllly slow :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hope otherwise well?
    Nymf Hathaway: Yes and you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes thank you :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Good day Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Girls
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
    Tarmel Udimo: Good just got home:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: and you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good thanks. It's finally cooler now :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: [weather]
    Nymf Hathaway: ah yes
    Nymf Hathaway: same here
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: humm getting colder:(
    Nymf Hathaway: well for us that's wonderful...it has been too hot for too long :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: BRB
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Gaya Ethaniel: I experienced a sort of temporary 'acclimatisation' on Saturday.
    Nymf Hathaway: oh and how was that, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Was sitting in a very small theatre, extremely hot with lights ... after a few minutes, I kind of got used to the temperature inside.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Partly I stopped thinking it is hot :)
    Nymf Hathaway: That must have given some relief :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Though I'm sure I'd have got hot and bothered if I had to walk about energetically like the actors :)
    Tarmel Udimo: back again, needed a cup of tea:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Nymf Hathaway: welcome back (and notes again... the graphics card crashed so she is on a really slow client)
    Tarmel Udimo: that's too bad, I haven't upgraded my SL software yet, I am afraid to as the last time I lost all my files.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :(
    Nymf Hathaway: yes can imagine :(
    Tarmel Udimo: found them eventually but the upgrade had done weird things to the file management
    Tarmel Udimo: how's Stim's workshops been?
    Nymf Hathaway: I haven't been able to make them, sadly enough
    Tarmel Udimo: me neither, but I hope to be able to tomorrow
    Gaya Ethaniel: This week's homework was about mind :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Workshops are great :)
    Tarmel Udimo: isn't it always about mind:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Thank you Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yw :)
    Tarmel Udimo: ty Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: We had a very intense conversation on this yesterday.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Tarmel Udimo: are you keeping transcripts?
    Gaya Ethaniel: We don't log those :)
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: Basically it is a difficult question and so there was lots of thinking going on.
    Tarmel Udimo: so are you meant to observe the mind before its a mind so to speak
    Tarmel Udimo: ie functioning with thoughts
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm ... I understood the question as this - "Is the mind more fundamental than thoughts?"
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or "the existence of the mind co-depends on thoughts?"
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think? :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I think the small minds is co-dependent on thoughts
    Tarmel Udimo: mind
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet when it is at peace it still feels like it is there
    Gaya Ethaniel: Tarmel, we can discuss changing the time if you are keen to come along for those informal gatherings.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: ty, but let me see if I can make it to Stim's session first, which is tomorrow?
    Tarmel Udimo: what do you think btw?
    Gaya Ethaniel: So far Sun 2 pm SLT is working well. Mon is tough for some.
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: I agree with you Tarmel. The mind has ability/capacity that doesn't seem to depend on arising of thoughts.
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm
    Gaya Ethaniel: I find the mind something similar to body in a way.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Body and sensations vs. the mind and thoughts.
    Gaya Ethaniel: The existence of body doesn't depend on sensations.
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yet there is a close interaction between body and sensations.
    Gaya Ethaniel: To a degree body can change, in return affect how it feels etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: The processing functions of body also doesn't depend on sensations imo.
    Tarmel Udimo: nods,
    Tarmel Udimo: I guess the question is if there was no mind would we still suffer
    Gaya Ethaniel: The ability is there before encountering sensations ... something like that.
    Gaya Ethaniel: No mind or no thoughts?
    Nymf Hathaway: Shall log off...feels as if she entered a stone-age sl version :( wishing the two of you a nice talk :)
    Tarmel Udimo: well no mind, we know thoughts create emotions and suffering but if there is a fundamental mind what does it do, what effect does it have if any?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok :( have a good day Nymf and see you soon.
    Tarmel Udimo: bye Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: bye bye
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think thoughts create emotions and suffering always?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe related emotions but not sure about suffering.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I think so
    Tarmel Udimo: we only suffer because we cling to what we think reality is and the way we think it should be
    Gaya Ethaniel: Remembering something pleasant for example is a thought ... no suffering there.
    Tarmel Udimo: perceptions of yourself and others, these are all thoughts
    Tarmel Udimo: the suffering can follow after if we cling to the emotion or try to extend it past its natural time, or feel the sense of not pleasant a sense of loss
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes so it's not necessary ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't think thoughts themselves are the culprits.
    Tarmel Udimo: no?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I think how we interact with thoughts is something that need our attention maybe.
    Tarmel Udimo: it's what we do with them, how we respond to them
    Tarmel Udimo: we agree
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thoughts are ... just series of information in a way.
    Tarmel Udimo: but often thoughts are programmed
    Gaya Ethaniel: Some nice, some not so nice ...
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: and we don't even know why we think a certain way
    Gaya Ethaniel: But the frame of the mind, starting with nice, not nice ... these kind of thinking affects how we respond to them perhaps.
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: agree
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is that also a thought?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Drawing a line to categorise this is nice and this isn't.
    Gaya Ethaniel: That feels like an action to me rather than static thought ...
    Tarmel Udimo: I think the action/reaction happens after
    Gaya Ethaniel: The mind is doing the action ... hm ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... I need to think about this a bit more.
    Tarmel Udimo: me too:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: but it's fun - the mind trying to figure itself out:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can't shake off the feeling that the mind lies dormant even without thoughts.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Someone said the issue is we are trying to see the mind by using the mind heheheh
    Tarmel Udimo: yes and yet there must be a way to see clearly and it must be a 'higher' faculty of the mind
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or something that lies dormant isn't the samsaric mind ... hm ...
    Tarmel Udimo: unless there is another mind
    Tarmel Udimo: I mean what is seeing clearly?
    Tarmel Udimo: some aspect of ourselves must be doing the seeing
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Who is seeing?
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: yes the big question
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure :)
    Tarmel Udimo: me neither:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: well I must go
    Tarmel Udimo: it's been great talking with you Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for joining me :) Enjoy your evening Tarmel.
    Tarmel Udimo: hopefully I'll make it tomorrow
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hope so :)
    Tarmel Udimo: if not see you next time:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's on Thursday btw
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not tomorrow
    Tarmel Udimo: oh not tomorrow?
    Tarmel Udimo: ty ahh its Stim's PaB session
    Gaya Ethaniel: Today yes :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: 1 pm SLT
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hope I can make it too.
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    Tarmel Udimo: might see you there
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: bye for now:)
    Gaya Ethaniel waves.

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