2009.07.16 07:00 - Mixing Messages

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

    As I settled in, Adams was the first to arrive, walking straight through the fountain to have a seat. :) Then another new friend "Kat" arrived, followed soon by Fael. The theme of the day seemed to be mixed messages.


    Eliza Madrigal: And she walks on water to greet me :)
    Adams Rubble: Hey Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Good morning Adams :)
    Adams Rubble shakes off the water
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: How are you today?
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the subtle blue of your dress. It is a color I've used a lot in my house...very Jane Austen :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm far more rested today than yesterday. You?
    Adams Rubble: I have just stopped running :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to take a pause
    Adams Rubble: Lots going on
    Adams Rubble: yes, drilling overhead seems to have calmed down
    Eliza Madrigal: That helps
    Adams Rubble: whoops someone just passed through with a ladeer
    Adams Rubble: ladder :)
    Eliza Madrigal: At least you are being entertained
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: So here we are sitting calmly by the PB fountain
    Adams Rubble: PaB
    Adams Rubble: not typing too well
    Adams Rubble takes deep breath
    Eliza Madrigal joins
    Adams Rubble: Hello Kat :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kat :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) In rl I'm still rezzing a bit
    Kat Lemieux: Yep, early here, too
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Kat, have you been to Play as Being before?
    Kat Lemieux: Yes, from early days.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, great. Then you know we record the conversations here :)
    Kat Lemieux: Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you
    Kat Lemieux: Thank you! And you, too
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: It is eary, yet already many reasons to take a break
    Eliza Madrigal: *early
    Kat Lemieux: ;-) Same here. I've been up studying
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, something interesting?

    Journalistic points of view

    Kat Lemieux: Journalism
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, that can be interesting
    Kat Lemieux: Indeed. I just started a master's program this summer.
    Adams Rubble: Fun to start something new :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Exciting! So what you'd like to do is give others windows on the world ?
    Kat Lemieux: Well, that's one way of describing it.
    Eliza Madrigal: In an economic downturn, many news organizations have to make cuts, and seem to begin with international coverage...
    Kat Lemieux: True! The whole industry is changing. But I'm more interested in electronic publishing anyway.
    Kat Lemieux: I've been blogging for years.
    Kat Lemieux: I just thought it would be good to know more about what I'm doing.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Kat Lemieux: Good morning, Fael. Good to see you again.
    Adams Rubble: Hi Fael :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Beautiful red! :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: Kat, yes I suppose that's helpful :))
    Kat Lemieux: Well, one can always wing it, but I've always preferred to know where I'm going
    Eliza Madrigal: Electronic publishing seems the way to go, and organizations like Journalists Without Borders.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Kat Lemieux: Yep. Fael, we're discussing journalism
    Eliza Madrigal: Unless there is another topic today?
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyone thoughtful? :)

    Buddhist monks on the cutting edge of technology

    Kat Lemieux: Well, part of my online journalism class has been to use Twitter, and on there I met an interesting Buddhist teacher.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Kat Lemieux: Yes, his name is Wan-Qi Kim, on Twitter he's @journik
    Kat Lemieux: He has a lot of websites and YouTube videos about meditation, etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, fantastic tip.
    Kat Lemieux: http://journik.com is one to start with
    Kat Lemieux: He've very interested in building a large community
    Eliza Madrigal: There is a tibetan lama who has begun to speak at Buddha Center...has a Twitter but I haven't found out how to find him yet. #lodro
    Eliza Madrigal: Guess this is the wave :)
    Kat Lemieux: Certainly is at the moment.
    Eliza Madrigal: I made a new twitter account after the election was over and my focus turned more toward spiritual things...
    Eliza Madrigal: right now I have two friends and Kevin Spacey. hahah
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Kat Lemieux: I actually have 3 Twitter accounts
    Kat Lemieux: One for Kat Lemieux, one for my RL self, and one for the epublishing new venture I'm involved in
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, many tentacles
    Kat Lemieux: I tend not to tweet on the kat_lemieux account, though
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not quite sure how to use it right now frankly. I'm still just learning my way around SL
    Kat Lemieux: Yah, it's hard to learn too many different things at once
    Eliza Madrigal: yes and I become concerned about so many attention dividers
    Eliza Madrigal: but in your industry yes it is a must
    Kat Lemieux: I've given up worrying about it
    Eliza Madrigal smiles...sounds good!

    Coherency filters

    Kat Lemieux: I guess Sarah Palin would call me a dead fish.... just going with the flow
    Eliza Madrigal: hahhah
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I thought about PaB when I read that quote
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: and how different a paradigm
    Kat Lemieux: Rather.
    Eliza Madrigal: One wants to think that there are just small leaps between people's ideas but..hm...she tests that. hahah
    Kat Lemieux: Well, it's pretty obvious SOME people are rather distant from others.
    Kat Lemieux: Or we wouldn't have such violent disagreements
    Adams Rubble: Some shooting guards pass the ball and walk off the court
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes of course... I suppose I like to look for overlaps.
    Kat Lemieux: Well, regardless of disagreeing with nearly everything she says, I do think she was badly treated by the MSM (Main Stream Media)
    Eliza Madrigal: In some ways yes, but "I'm a bulldog roar/Don't come near me" at the same time was difficult to take :)
    Kat Lemieux: After hearing every "newscaster" characterize her presentation as "muddled" and "disorganized", I listened to it myself, and thought she'd been pretty well organized.
    Kat Lemieux: It was a complex thought she was trying to convey, and her manner of speaking doesn't work well for that, but if people actually listened to what she said instead of how she said it, they'd have known her speech was really pretty coherent.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm. This last speech you mean
    Kat Lemieux: Made me wonder about the qualifications of those who reported on it, whether they could recognise logic when they heard it.
    Kat Lemieux: I was referring to her press conference when she announced her resignation.
    Eliza Madrigal: I think people have impressions and filters now, so that will be difficult for her to overcome
    Kat Lemieux: "Impressions and filters" meaning prejudices?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes in some cases
    Eliza Madrigal: But also that she's sent many mixed messages so people expect her messages to be mixed
    Kat Lemieux: Well, it might be that, or it might be an agenda
    Adams Rubble: I don't agree that her press conference was coherent
    Adams Rubble: She is a divider and is doing so this morning :)
    Kat Lemieux: Yes, she has not always been so together, and when she has had a strong message, I haven't usually agreed with her. But still.
    Eliza Madrigal: In many ways her contradictions magnify already present confusion
    Kat Lemieux: Possibly.
    Kat Lemieux: When she is on message i usually disagree with her message.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Kat Lemieux: And she has been self-contradicting many times in the past.
    Kat Lemieux: I just dont think she was this time.
    Eliza Madrigal: Admittedly, one of the things I was happiest about post election, ws not to have to listen to her... is that awful? hah
    Adams Rubble: You are talking about the dead fish with the flow aren't you?
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Kat Lemieux: I don't think it's awful to have that feeling. I felt the same way when Hillary wasn't nominated. Great relief.
    Kat Lemieux: Sadly, I don't think there were any good choices in this last election.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I'm very happy with the way things turned out :)

    In the meantime...

    Kat Lemieux: Obama may be leading us to destruction, but at least he's got class.
    Eliza Madrigal: but on another level, it is important to see through these issues to the reality at heart...
    Eliza Madrigal: to a place where we all are connected, in a sense, whether we can see it or not
    Eliza Madrigal: whether it seems completely counter-intuitive to our brains or not
    Eliza Madrigal: We make judgement calls on the other stuff, as we go along, based on information we have at the time
    Kat Lemieux: We are certainly all more similar than we are different from each other.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes .. takes intention to see that perhaps
    Kat Lemieux: Maybe intention, or education
    Eliza Madrigal: yes to both :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I was watching a video last night...
    Eliza Madrigal: Dalai Lama speaking on the Four Noble Truths in a huge auditorium...
    Eliza Madrigal: thinking about what a great thing it is that there has been this opportunity in the west, to hear these kinds of ideas
    Kat Lemieux: He's a great man.
    Eliza Madrigal: I know that personally I feel very grateful for so many inspired teachers
    Eliza Madrigal: and of course I hope it has reverberation in politics, economics, etc. We'll see I guess
    Kat Lemieux: Yep
    Eliza Madrigal: In the meantime... : )
    Eliza Madrigal notices Fael is so quiet this morning. All well?
    Fael Illyar: Well, not really :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (though not morning for Fael, sorry)
    Fael Illyar: in a way you could say I'm thoughtful but can't really manage a question or words at all about it so can't much of make a topic out of it.
    Eliza Madrigal nods, that happens
    Eliza Madrigal: What about just a word? hehe
    Fael Illyar: I'm afraid of something but not quite clear why.
    Fael Illyar: or what exactly.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, afraid
    Kat Lemieux: A true fear of the unknown!
    Fael Illyar: haha, kind of :)
    Kat Lemieux: Not the usual sense of that phrase, of course.
    Fael Illyar: nope, not usual
    Kat Lemieux: Acute, or just a feeling of uneasiness?
    Fael Illyar: although, I suppose that's a part of it.
    Eliza Madrigal: that it feels different?
    Fael Illyar: Well, it's kind of making me unable to do anything else. Started a couple of hours ago.
    Eliza Madrigal: a puzzle then
    Kat Lemieux: Hmm. Maybe you just tneed to do something to distract yourself?
    Fael Illyar: I know that would help but ... I feel it'd simply postpone it.
    Eliza Madrigal: then maybe you're right on the brink!
    Eliza Madrigal: darkest before the dawn?
    Fael Illyar: could be :)
    Kat Lemieux: Well, that might be true in a sense, but on the otherhand, if it's so amorphous maybe just ignoring it would let it subside spontaneously?
    Kat Lemieux: Or instead of ignoring it, embrace it.
    Fael Illyar: I would be just letting it be if I felt I could... although perhaps that's the whole problem.
    Eliza Madrigal: or a combo of both...heheh...Some days coming here is like that... "Let me put my mind off of this" but then one arrives to find the subject 'right there'
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it works that way.
    Adams Rubble: Is it fear or uneasiness?
    Fael Illyar: what's the difference?
    Adams Rubble: possibly in the intensity of what it is that is bothering us
    Eliza Madrigal: fear demands an immediate response?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Fael Illyar: well, there is a feeling I'd need to do something but no idea what really :)
    Fael Illyar: and yes, a sense of immediacy I can recognize as false but that doesn't help somehow.
    Adams Rubble: often times I circle around something for a while until I am able to zero in
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Rubble: can't quite see what it is until I get the right angle :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that's quite normal :)
    Eliza Madrigal is reminded of a card given out at zen a few nights ago
    Eliza Madrigal: "Changing It"

    In daily life we experience suffering more often than pleasure. If we are patient, in the sense of taking suffering voluntarily upon ourselves, even if we are not capable of doing this physically, then we will not lose our capacity for judgment. We should remember that if a situation cannot be changed, there is no point in worrying about it. If it can be changed, then there is no need to worry about it either, we should simply go about changing it.

    –His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, from The Dalai Lama’s Little Book of Inner Peace

    Fael Illyar: Yes, wise words :)
    Fael Illyar: I've said something to the same effect myself sometimes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes you have :)
    Fael Illyar: Just talking to others about it, even vaguely seems to help a lot :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Adams Rubble: You all have been so good listening to me...yes it helps :)
    Kat Lemieux: Good!
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Kat Lemieux: Well, I need to go. It's been very good to sit with all of you -- a good start for the day.
    Adams Rubble: bye Kat
    Fael Illyar: see you later Kat :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Kat, very nice to meet you! :)
    Kat Lemieux: Bye!
    Eliza Madrigal: Just sitting in presence does help
    Fael Illyar: Yes, just not as much as speaking it appears :)
    Fael Illyar: perhaps I'll learn to be more optimistic about talking to people when I'm feeling like this but have no words.
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, when you begin to see what it is, then maybe the speaking gets closer
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Rubble: Or be like me and just chatter away (giggles)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe... is a good method too at times
    Eliza Madrigal: not that I think that's what you do
    Fael Illyar: I've somehow been unable to just chatter away :)
    Eliza Madrigal: There are things I don't talk about here, and I wonder "Would laying them on the table bring clarity?" Maybe I keep myself from it staying in vagueville.
    Adams Rubble: It involves trying to approach it like a child
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!!
    Adams Rubble: just chatter away past ones defenses
    Adams Rubble: not worry about looking the village idiot :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and stumble upon treasures that way
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Fael Illyar: yes... I used to not wory... I wonder when I picked that up.
    Adams Rubble: It happens to each of us
    Adams Rubble: we never notice it happening
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, we pick things back up and carry them a while before we think "Why am I exhausted?"
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: Heh, yes, exactly :)
    Adams Rubble looks at her inventory and sighs
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Fael Illyar: some of this is related to my tendency to doubt things but exactly how... am I doubting that too? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe a new tool is required
    Fael Illyar: I've managed to stop doubting a few times before.
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you know what you are doubting?
    Fael Illyar: umm... no :)
    Fael Illyar: and when I examine what I'm doubting, I end up doubting what I'm doubting so that stays unclear.
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you doubt that everything will be 'fine' or IS indeed 'fine' already
    Fael Illyar: I can see the doubt of the answer to that question clouding it but somehow not sure how not to doubt it and just let it come :)
    Fael Illyar: doubt circle I guess.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fael Illyar: no guessing there.
    Fael Illyar: another doubt
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice that you have your wings back on... is that a signal? :))
    Fael Illyar: the wings are kind of a "shield" of sorts...
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: Ever do tonglen?
    Fael Illyar: what's that?
    Eliza Madrigal: Breathing in, in this case it might be confusion/doubt... breathing out clarity
    Eliza Madrigal: At the very least it often feels very good :)
    Adams Rubble: I am afraid I am going to have to run. You two are doing quite well without me :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Eliza and Fael :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've not felt without you ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fael Illyar: see you later Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: I hope you find what it is fael :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Adams :) Glad you stopped by.
    Fael Illyar: I've always found it before :)
    Adams Rubble: If not we'll all be here :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble waves and poofs
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking that I'd not seen you in a few weeks... was going to IM
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fael Illyar: When someone you know has a need, you do feel like contacting them :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods, yes that often happens... they just keeping coming to mind
    Eliza Madrigal: a few weeks ago I was in quite a fog..up all night, crying a lot with no sense of why....
    Eliza Madrigal: and the clarity that came after has been so strong
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: I hope that's what you find :)
    Fael Illyar: Thank you :)

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