2009.07.16 13:00 - Freecycle

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    It was my last guardian session for while. I'll miss the next three Thursday 13:00 sessions as I'll be emigrating, and these slots will be kindly covered by Scathach and Wol.

    Storm Nordwind hums quietly to himself
    The first part of this session I sat alone in the pavilion.

    Storm Nordwind hums a little less quietly to himself

    ... for quite some time, until I was joined by Fefonz.

    Storm Nordwind: Greetings Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Hello Storm
    Fefonz Quan: i see you lead a silent session here :)
    Storm Nordwind: Sometimes we all get on better that way :)
    Fefonz Quan: surely cuts down teh arguments
    Storm Nordwind: That's OK. I can argue between my alts.
    Fefonz Quan: hehe. i don't see alts here
    Storm Nordwind: Have you never seen the comedy sketches where someone is dressed one way on one side and another on the other? They switch left or right facing the audience as they go through a dialogue. Perhaps I should try that?
    Fefonz Quan: maybe. some voodville in PaB will be a first
    Storm Nordwind: "I say I say I say. My dog's got no nose." "How does he smell?" "Terrible!"
    Storm Nordwind: Doesn't work does it?
    Fefonz Quan: well, yeah...
    Fefonz Quan: i thought it was funny :)
    Storm Nordwind bows to the huge wave of indifference that flows from the audience ;)
    I had passed away the time before Fefonz arrived handling a deluge of email. We talked about why that was happening.

    Storm Nordwind: So I was being bombarded by email while I was sitting here. So I was not entirely alone :)
    Storm Nordwind: I joined this thing called Freecycle in order to dispose of the last things in the house here
    Fefonz Quan: freecycle?
    Storm Nordwind: And I suddenly became very popular.
    Storm Nordwind: Yes...
    Fefonz Quan: what is it?
    Storm Nordwind: http://www.freecycle.org/
    Storm Nordwind: It's a way of getting and disposing of things
    Storm Nordwind: For free
    Storm Nordwind: Keeping things out of landfill sites
    Fefonz Quan: so you just gives stuff away freely?
    Storm Nordwind: I have a bed. I can't take it to the US. The Buddhist center had no use for it. Advertise it for free
    Storm Nordwind: Yes
    Storm Nordwind: Like the guitars! :)
    Fefonz Quan: yeah! :-(
    Storm Nordwind: They have local groups all round the world
    Fefonz Quan: (or maybe :p)
    Storm Nordwind: And you can advertise for wanted items too
    Fefonz Quan: so what do you earn from it?
    Storm Nordwind: Nothing at all
    Fefonz Quan: (many friends?)
    Storm Nordwind: perhaps if I were to stay here!
    Fefonz Quan: i see. so it's a kind of charity
    Storm Nordwind: Hmm... not really. It's a self-help group i suppose
    Fefonz Quan: infact you earn someone coming and getting stuff from you, so you don't have to take care of it anymore
    Fefonz Quan: self-help has some meanings these days :)
    Storm Nordwind: Well some people ask for delivery if they have no transport
    Storm Nordwind: But these are large items and I have no van, so they have to collect
    Fefonz Quan: nice. it's like garage sale without the selling
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: And people can ask for stuff too
    Fefonz Quan: sound like utopia
    Interesting idea. I suspect people have chatted before in Play as Being sessions about utopia.

    Storm Nordwind: What is your idea of utopia Fefonz?
    Fefonz Quan: never thought about it seriously, the idea that you can get anything you want for free sounds utopian to me.
    Storm Nordwind: Interesting...
    Storm Nordwind: How free? Just no money? Or no effort?
    Fefonz Quan: brings up the question why do other fellows bother to pay for stuff?
    Fefonz Quan: no money
    Storm Nordwind: Manufactured goods have a finite lifespan - they do not last forever. But they are often thrown away before they're useless
    Fefonz Quan: i agree, i didn't wonder about the second hand concept
    Storm Nordwind: But they do need replacing eventually. Let those who wany new stuff pay for new stuff
    Fefonz Quan: -"-
    Storm Nordwind: Actually the net economy must still be the same.
    Storm Nordwind: People sell but they must also buy
    Storm Nordwind: So they end up with a zero sum or close to it
    Storm Nordwind: So doing it for free on both sides has no different effect
    As you can tell, I am not an economist! And the leader of the QTE workshop would surely be having the horrors! Meanwhile, we were joined by someone new.

    Storm Nordwind: Hello Shyama
    Shyama Sheryffe: hi
    Fefonz Quan: Yes, reminds me of my old idea of bringing a coupon instead of a check for your friends wedding, and if he brings it back to your you are even, and no need for money/gifts bothersome exchange
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Shyama
    Shyama Sheryffe: hi fefong
    Shyama Sheryffe: fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: that sounds quite chinese :)
    Storm Nordwind: If you took a Buddhist point of view, you are potentially accumulating merit of course by doing this I guess
    Fefonz Quan: does buying with money reduce your karma? i wouldn't expect it
    Storm Nordwind: No I don't think it does
    Storm Nordwind: But giving stuff away may do
    Fefonz Quan: so in an economy where everyone gives and takes things for free, it can hardly be regarded as grace
    Storm Nordwind: indeed. And an investment economy probably wouldn't work this way
    Storm Nordwind: I don't see this as a substitute, but it is certainly a pleasant add-on
    Fefonz Quan: infact i agree, in our society, not leveraging anything to money is a good practice

    I have a strong aversion to the word "leverage" used as a modern verb! So I sidestepped it and decided to explain to our visitor what we were talking about. :)

    Storm Nordwind: In case you're wondering Shyama, our conversation was started by talking about "freecycle" (http://www.freecycle.org/)
    Shyama Sheryffe: ok
    Shyama Sheryffe: what is it ?
    Storm Nordwind: But why does anyone do anything voluntarily Fefonz?
    Storm Nordwind: After all, we all volunteer our time as guardians here in Play as Being
    Fefonz Quan: sure, but we earn a lot too
    Shyama Sheryffe: ah giving things for free
    Storm Nordwind: Freecycle is a set of groups around the world Shyama. A way of recycling stuff by giving away
    Shyama Sheryffe: i like that..oops
    Storm Nordwind smiles as the bell has rung for 90 seconds silence

    Storm Nordwind: Basically it is a set of mailing lists, each one local to a town
    Storm Nordwind: And people advertise stuff or request stuff on it
    Shyama Sheryffe: nods
    Storm Nordwind: And it all has to be for free
    Storm Nordwind: I'm vacating this house. And while I've given most of the stuff away already, some things remain, so I've put them on the Glasgow freecycle.
    Fefonz Quan: infact i might use that too, i am vacating here in 6 weeks
    Storm Nordwind: Where is that at the moment Fefonz?
    Fefonz Quan: Princeton NJ
    Storm Nordwind: Their group has 6836 active members
    Fefonz Quan: good to know :) link, if you are already there?
    Storm Nordwind: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freecycle_Princeton/
    Fefonz Quan: thanks, wrote it down
    Storm Nordwind: This is necessary because I found that the cost of shipping to Denver from Scotland is around $20 per cubic foot! :)
    Fefonz Quan: amazing, from here to israel my deal is about 7$ door to door
    Storm Nordwind: Right. But you are next to the coast. Denver is 1000 miles direct line, more by road
    Fefonz Quan: and i am shipping my amp, if you wanted to know :)
    Fefonz Quan: ah, right, it's by sea.
    Storm Nordwind: So I wonder whether our work in Play as Being has any similarities. We do get stuff back don't we, for the time we spend here?
    Storm Nordwind: But I don't think of that when I do it
    Shyama Sheryffe: lots of new ideas
    Good point.
    Storm Nordwind: And somehow, freecycling seems to reinforce the idea of Being for me...
    Storm Nordwind: and the experience of Being...
    Storm Nordwind: and the feeling of change of appearance but still no separation
    Fefonz Quan: yes, it is surely an anti-ego activity, and pro-community too
    Storm Nordwind nods as he is more coherent that way! :)
    Fefonz Quan: brb, RL call
    I could see that Stim was online and already in waiting for people to arrive for his workshop.

    Storm Nordwind: We'll be drawing this session to a close anyway now Shyama...
    Storm Nordwind: There is a workshop in the Kira Cafe in a moment
    Storm Nordwind: Many people often attend it, Fefonz included
    Shyama Sheryffe: ah..on what subject ?
    Storm Nordwind: It is called Ways of Knowing
    Shyama Sheryffe: hm..sounds interesting
    Storm Nordwind: You;ll find more here: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...108&Itemid=138
    Storm Nordwind: Last before a 2 week break
    Storm Nordwind: Why not go along
    Storm Nordwind passes Shyama a landmark
    Shyama Sheryffe: is this the one with the homework ?
    Storm Nordwind: haha yes!
    Storm Nordwind: But first timers are always welcome!
    Shyama Sheryffe: lol..ok
    Shyama Sheryffe: i will try it
    Storm Nordwind: Best go now though if you're interested
    Storm Nordwind: And do join the Kira Cafe group while you're there
    Shyama Sheryffe: k, r u coming too
    Storm Nordwind: I have to run sadly
    Storm Nordwind: I'll be there in August though
    Storm Nordwind: After i move
    Storm Nordwind: bye for now
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Shyama Sheryffe: bye then Storm, nice talking to u
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