2009.07.16 13:00 - Freecycle

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

It was my last guardian session for while. I'll miss the next three Thursday 13:00 sessions as I'll be emigrating, and these slots will be kindly covered by Scathach and Wol.

Storm Nordwind hums quietly to himself

The first part of this session I sat alone in the pavilion.

Storm Nordwind hums a little less quietly to himself

... for quite some time, until I was joined by Fefonz.

Storm Nordwind: Greetings Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Hello Storm
Fefonz Quan: i see you lead a silent session here :)
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes we all get on better that way :)
Fefonz Quan: surely cuts down teh arguments
Storm Nordwind: That's OK. I can argue between my alts.
Fefonz Quan: hehe. i don't see alts here
Storm Nordwind: Have you never seen the comedy sketches where someone is dressed one way on one side and another on the other? They switch left or right facing the audience as they go through a dialogue. Perhaps I should try that?
Fefonz Quan: maybe. some voodville in PaB will be a first
Storm Nordwind: "I say I say I say. My dog's got no nose." "How does he smell?" "Terrible!"
Storm Nordwind: Doesn't work does it?
Fefonz Quan: well, yeah...
Fefonz Quan: i thought it was funny :)
Storm Nordwind bows to the huge wave of indifference that flows from the audience ;)

I had passed away the time before Fefonz arrived handling a deluge of email. We talked about why that was happening.

Storm Nordwind: So I was being bombarded by email while I was sitting here. So I was not entirely alone :)
Storm Nordwind: I joined this thing called Freecycle in order to dispose of the last things in the house here
Fefonz Quan: freecycle?
Storm Nordwind: And I suddenly became very popular.
Storm Nordwind: Yes...
Fefonz Quan: what is it?
Storm Nordwind: http://www.freecycle.org/
Storm Nordwind: It's a way of getting and disposing of things
Storm Nordwind: For free
Storm Nordwind: Keeping things out of landfill sites
Fefonz Quan: so you just gives stuff away freely?
Storm Nordwind: I have a bed. I can't take it to the US. The Buddhist center had no use for it. Advertise it for free
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Storm Nordwind: Like the guitars! :)
Fefonz Quan: yeah! :-(
Storm Nordwind: They have local groups all round the world
Fefonz Quan: (or maybe :p)
Storm Nordwind: And you can advertise for wanted items too
Fefonz Quan: so what do you earn from it?
Storm Nordwind: Nothing at all
Fefonz Quan: (many friends?)
Storm Nordwind: perhaps if I were to stay here!
Fefonz Quan: i see. so it's a kind of charity
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... not really. It's a self-help group i suppose
Fefonz Quan: infact you earn someone coming and getting stuff from you, so you don't have to take care of it anymore
Fefonz Quan: self-help has some meanings these days :)
Storm Nordwind: Well some people ask for delivery if they have no transport
Storm Nordwind: But these are large items and I have no van, so they have to collect
Fefonz Quan: nice. it's like garage sale without the selling
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: And people can ask for stuff too
Fefonz Quan: sound like utopia

Interesting idea. I suspect people have chatted before in Play as Being sessions about utopia.

Storm Nordwind: What is your idea of utopia Fefonz?
Fefonz Quan: never thought about it seriously, the idea that you can get anything you want for free sounds utopian to me.
Storm Nordwind: Interesting...
Storm Nordwind: How free? Just no money? Or no effort?
Fefonz Quan: brings up the question why do other fellows bother to pay for stuff?
Fefonz Quan: no money
Storm Nordwind: Manufactured goods have a finite lifespan - they do not last forever. But they are often thrown away before they're useless
Fefonz Quan: i agree, i didn't wonder about the second hand concept
Storm Nordwind: But they do need replacing eventually. Let those who wany new stuff pay for new stuff
Fefonz Quan: -"-
Storm Nordwind: Actually the net economy must still be the same.
Storm Nordwind: People sell but they must also buy
Storm Nordwind: So they end up with a zero sum or close to it
Storm Nordwind: So doing it for free on both sides has no different effect

As you can tell, I am not an economist! And the leader of the QTE workshop would surely be having the horrors! Meanwhile, we were joined by someone new.

Storm Nordwind: Hello Shyama
Shyama Sheryffe: hi
Fefonz Quan: Yes, reminds me of my old idea of bringing a coupon instead of a check for your friends wedding, and if he brings it back to your you are even, and no need for money/gifts bothersome exchange
Fefonz Quan: Hey Shyama
Shyama Sheryffe: hi fefong
Shyama Sheryffe: fefonz
Fefonz Quan: that sounds quite chinese :)
Storm Nordwind: If you took a Buddhist point of view, you are potentially accumulating merit of course by doing this I guess
Fefonz Quan: does buying with money reduce your karma? i wouldn't expect it
Storm Nordwind: No I don't think it does
Storm Nordwind: But giving stuff away may do
Fefonz Quan: so in an economy where everyone gives and takes things for free, it can hardly be regarded as grace
Storm Nordwind: indeed. And an investment economy probably wouldn't work this way
Storm Nordwind: I don't see this as a substitute, but it is certainly a pleasant add-on
Fefonz Quan: infact i agree, in our society, not leveraging anything to money is a good practice

I have a strong aversion to the word "leverage" used as a modern verb! So I sidestepped it and decided to explain to our visitor what we were talking about. :)

Storm Nordwind: In case you're wondering Shyama, our conversation was started by talking about "freecycle" (http://www.freecycle.org/)
Shyama Sheryffe: ok
Shyama Sheryffe: what is it ?
Storm Nordwind: But why does anyone do anything voluntarily Fefonz?
Storm Nordwind: After all, we all volunteer our time as guardians here in Play as Being
Fefonz Quan: sure, but we earn a lot too
Shyama Sheryffe: ah giving things for free
Storm Nordwind: Freecycle is a set of groups around the world Shyama. A way of recycling stuff by giving away
Shyama Sheryffe: i like that..oops
Storm Nordwind smiles as the bell has rung for 90 seconds silence

Storm Nordwind: Basically it is a set of mailing lists, each one local to a town
Storm Nordwind: And people advertise stuff or request stuff on it
Shyama Sheryffe: nods
Storm Nordwind: And it all has to be for free
Storm Nordwind: I'm vacating this house. And while I've given most of the stuff away already, some things remain, so I've put them on the Glasgow freecycle.
Fefonz Quan: infact i might use that too, i am vacating here in 6 weeks
Storm Nordwind: Where is that at the moment Fefonz?
Fefonz Quan: Princeton NJ
Storm Nordwind: Their group has 6836 active members
Fefonz Quan: good to know :) link, if you are already there?
Storm Nordwind: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freecycle_Princeton/
Fefonz Quan: thanks, wrote it down
Storm Nordwind: This is necessary because I found that the cost of shipping to Denver from Scotland is around $20 per cubic foot! :)
Fefonz Quan: amazing, from here to israel my deal is about 7$ door to door
Storm Nordwind: Right. But you are next to the coast. Denver is 1000 miles direct line, more by road
Fefonz Quan: and i am shipping my amp, if you wanted to know :)
Fefonz Quan: ah, right, it's by sea.
Storm Nordwind: So I wonder whether our work in Play as Being has any similarities. We do get stuff back don't we, for the time we spend here?
Storm Nordwind: But I don't think of that when I do it
Shyama Sheryffe: lots of new ideas

Good point.

Storm Nordwind: And somehow, freecycling seems to reinforce the idea of Being for me...
Storm Nordwind: and the experience of Being...
Storm Nordwind: and the feeling of change of appearance but still no separation
Fefonz Quan: yes, it is surely an anti-ego activity, and pro-community too
Storm Nordwind nods as he is more coherent that way! :)
Fefonz Quan: brb, RL call

I could see that Stim was online and already in waiting for people to arrive for his workshop.

Storm Nordwind: We'll be drawing this session to a close anyway now Shyama...
Storm Nordwind: There is a workshop in the Kira Cafe in a moment
Storm Nordwind: Many people often attend it, Fefonz included
Shyama Sheryffe: ah..on what subject ?
Storm Nordwind: It is called Ways of Knowing
Shyama Sheryffe: hm..sounds interesting
Storm Nordwind: You;ll find more here: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...108&Itemid=138
Storm Nordwind: Last before a 2 week break
Storm Nordwind: Why not go along
Storm Nordwind passes Shyama a landmark
Shyama Sheryffe: is this the one with the homework ?
Storm Nordwind: haha yes!
Storm Nordwind: But first timers are always welcome!
Shyama Sheryffe: lol..ok
Shyama Sheryffe: i will try it
Storm Nordwind: Best go now though if you're interested
Storm Nordwind: And do join the Kira Cafe group while you're there
Shyama Sheryffe: k, r u coming too
Storm Nordwind: I have to run sadly
Storm Nordwind: I'll be there in August though
Storm Nordwind: After i move
Storm Nordwind: bye for now
Storm Nordwind waves
Shyama Sheryffe: bye then Storm, nice talking to u