2009.07.29 19:00 - Fullness

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Avastu Maruti and SophiaSharon Larnia joined me. Unfortunately there was much thunder and lighting here so I lost the connection a few times.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello, Sl delayed my arrival
Avastu Maruti: hello again my friend
Avastu Maruti: love to you
stevenaia Michinaga: it has been some time.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Steven, Hi Avastu :)
stevenaia Michinaga: My connection is a bit erratic tonight..please stand by
Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: you are gray Steven, is it raining where you are? It was storming here
stevenaia Michinaga: no, but internet and SL were mis-behaving
stevenaia Michinaga: am I in living color to you Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope I didn't interrupt a topic?
stevenaia Michinaga: only if the topic was silence
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Avastu Maruti: ha!
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what is on my mind, I think could be the topic of the opposite, maybe
stevenaia Michinaga: explain
stevenaia Michinaga: please
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been wondering, if appreciation, in the sense of pa, could mean a fullness
stevenaia Michinaga: fullness?
SophiaSharon Larnia: to see realize things are appearances, and this illusion, that I see, is very full
SophiaSharon Larnia: we use the phrases full of joy, full of life, etc
stevenaia Michinaga: I see it more as emptyness and completeness, appriciate is all there needs to be
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: so within fullness is emptyness and completeness
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I see the point :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I have recently reflected on how opposites can complete thoughts such as that
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
stevenaia Michinaga: how one thing or one focused thought can be the world at a point
stevenaia Michinaga: or, in what I do, the space that is created by architecture is the result of solid things
stevenaia Michinaga: space
SophiaSharon Larnia: the solid things can define the spaces :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: one cannot exist without the other
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting
stevenaia Michinaga: it makes for a happy union
stevenaia Michinaga: and balance
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes balance, I was trying to empty everything, to drop it, and, too long to state here, was having trouble. So, I gave that up, and the fullness rushed in :)
Avastu Maruti smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: googled it and see there is so much written about the fullness of self, it was a 'doh' moment
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Avastu Maruti: fullness is your true nature - it is called ananda in the Vedanta - it is known when all seeking falls away
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have had the giggles all day
stevenaia Michinaga: so fullness is not accumulations, as such, more of a peaceful state
Avastu Maruti: fullness is the principle necessary for all states - good or bad
Avastu Maruti: that is acceptance
SophiaSharon Larnia: acceptance?
stevenaia Michinaga: and acceptance is the dropping of things
Avastu Maruti: we may say acceptance is the recognition that this, right here and now, is all there ever is
Avastu Maruti: and as such is already perfectly arising
SophiaSharon Larnia: and it is very very full :)
Avastu Maruti: it is you, my friend
Avastu Maruti: you are that fullness
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is everyone
Avastu Maruti: everyone is an assumption of separateness - there is nothing outside of you
Avastu Maruti: we may say everything is Being - all that appears is only Being
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: I work with an highly intuitive person who sees most things opposite of me,but it is usually an illusion as we are looking at the very same thing, like a door, only from different sides, it is always very amusing, but gives you perspective
stevenaia Michinaga: emptyness being completeness
stevenaia Michinaga: and fullness being completeness :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: does it go beyond that
stevenaia Michinaga: well when opposites are the same, what does it need to go beyond
stevenaia Michinaga: it becomes simplicity
stevenaia Michinaga: the irony is the effort it takes to find simplicity
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: i just know i feel beeter than i have in a while, maybe since i started coming here
SophiaSharon Larnia: better*
SophiaSharon Larnia: and although this doesn't matter, in a way
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you feel before?
SophiaSharon Larnia: emptiness is hard to look at, desperate, maybe
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was thinking the wrong way
Avastu Maruti: Is the ocean concerned which way the tide flows?
Avastu Maruti: Self is not mind
Avastu Maruti: because you are aware of the content and quality of thought, you must be prior to thought, witnessing it
Avastu Maruti: yes?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i thought so
Avastu Maruti: thought is an appearance which you objectify, as is the body
Avastu Maruti: the true self is not objective
Avastu Maruti: it does not appear yet is undeniably and intimately known at all times
Avastu Maruti: that is what is actually meant by the word "I"
Avastu Maruti: that is the reference
Avastu Maruti: pure subjectivity
Avastu Maruti: you are always present and aware - you are always awareness
Avastu Maruti: that is the true "I"
Avastu Maruti: or self
SophiaSharon Larnia: so the self is not an appearance
Avastu Maruti: the self is THAT to which all appearances come and go
--BELL--
Avastu Maruti: experiences are always varied - experiencing is the very principle necessary for all experience
Avastu Maruti: the experience and experiencer are objective
Avastu Maruti: the self remains untouched no matter the experience
Avastu Maruti: that is the true meaning of acceptance
Avastu Maruti: like the mirror reflects all without preference
Avastu Maruti: the self reflects or registers all experience equally and effortlessly
Avastu Maruti: you are the self
Avastu Maruti: and the self is all there is
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was working under the assumption that all relative things are appearance :)
SophiaSharon Larnia is taken over by another fit of the giggles
Avastu Maruti: all relative things ARE appearance
Avastu Maruti: name and form only
SophiaSharon Larnia: (whoops Steven crashed)
Avastu Maruti: if I hold a flower and ask - does flower exist - what will you say?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i would say, we both agree that the matter that makes up the flower appearance in your hand
SophiaSharon Larnia: appears
Avastu Maruti: so does flower exist?
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) to us it does
Avastu Maruti: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Steven :)
Avastu Maruti: so if I take off the petals, the leaves and the top, I now hold stem. Does stem exist?
Avastu Maruti: wp steven
SophiaSharon Larnia: to us, the same as the flower
Avastu Maruti: yes
Avastu Maruti: so if I take the petals, leaves, top of flower and stem, and crush them to powder, now powder exists, yes?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Avastu Maruti: so what happened to the flower?
Avastu Maruti: where did it go?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok that is the matter of matter it changes, the idea of flower is in our minds
Avastu Maruti: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: the nature of *
Avastu Maruti: flower never actually existed as an absolute separate "thing"
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Steven :) I hope you can stay
SophiaSharon Larnia: no it didn't
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s the storm outside
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes its your way now Steven
stevenaia Michinaga: your gift :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: going north east, i think
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: no it didnt Avastu
Avastu Maruti: all things are exactly like this
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i understand this
SophiaSharon Larnia: a thought thing
Avastu Maruti: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: (ok i speak too fast) lol
Avastu Maruti: the world is made of concepts
Avastu Maruti: nothing can be known absolutely except your own existence
Avastu Maruti: and that is known intimately
Avastu Maruti: that is Being
SophiaSharon Larnia: how can i know my own existence, absolutely??
Avastu Maruti: are you here?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think i am here
Avastu Maruti: in fact all you really know is that you are here
Avastu Maruti: present and aware
Avastu Maruti: that is how you know that you ARE
Avastu Maruti: that presence is the self
Avastu Maruti: pure subjectivity which objectifies even the body, thoughts, feelings, even space and time are objective to the self
SophiaSharon Larnia: so is to appreciate the presence of being is to appreciate the presence of self?
Avastu Maruti: they are one and the same
Avastu Maruti: but the spiritual search is to try to objectify the self. It cannot be done
Avastu Maruti: you cannot find being because you ARE THAT
Avastu Maruti: that is what is doing the looking, so to speak
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: so appreciating all appearances is really appreciating aspects of my self, even things i find uncomfortable
Avastu Maruti: yes
Avastu Maruti: all "things" are only aspects of your very self
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: is still laughing :)
Avastu Maruti: the idea of a separate self is the concept - if we walk outside and look up at the trees, the birds, the sky
Avastu Maruti: life is looking at itself
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Steven :)) again
SophiaSharon Larnia: this was brought on by a dream I had, of many eyes looking :)
Avastu Maruti: the world cannot appear without relativity
Avastu Maruti: that is what steven was referring to - emptiness IS completeness
Avastu Maruti: manyness is oneness
Avastu Maruti: that play of opposites is necessary - duality is inherently necessary yet it is only relative to a perspective
Avastu Maruti: the absolute is only the self
Avastu Maruti: and you are already that
SophiaSharon Larnia: this is the first I am hearing that the absolute lies in the self
Avastu Maruti: Vedanta calls it Brahman - another word for Oneness or Life or God or whatever
Avastu Maruti: brahman is defined as satchitananda
Avastu Maruti: sat is Being
SophiaSharon Larnia: i didnt think it could found in anything that can appear
Avastu Maruti: chit is knowing
Avastu Maruti: ananda is fullness
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh my
Avastu Maruti: being IS knowing
Avastu Maruti: you are present and aware
Avastu Maruti: same thing
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Avastu Maruti: seeking obscures this ananda or fullness
stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking how what you were searching for at the beginning of this conversation you found when you stopped searching
Avastu Maruti: when seeking dissolves, ananda is revealed
SophiaSharon Larnia: i gave up a while ago i just haven't said here
stevenaia Michinaga: gave up searching?
SophiaSharon Larnia: but started doing the 9 sec stops again, and instead of 'dropping' the bell reminded me to pay more attention to the now
SophiaSharon Larnia: not exactly, just gave up thinking i could understand
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for saying this :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: the self as absolute? what an idea
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Avastu Maruti: it's not a new idea
Avastu Maruti: self is Atman
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no
Avastu Maruti: atman is brahman
SophiaSharon Larnia: i know :))
--BELL--
Avastu Maruti: pure self (subjectivity) is translated by the mind with the words "I AM"
SophiaSharon Larnia: just hearing things ive read or heard, but like for the first time, again...
stevenaia Michinaga: I must depart, thank you for joining me
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Steven :)
Avastu Maruti: but the mind can only think in terms of "things" or objects
stevenaia Michinaga: good seeing both of you again
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend - love to you
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: I must go as well, its been a long day for me :)
Avastu Maruti: love to you, my friend
SophiaSharon Larnia: you are so kind to say these things, love to you also :))