2009.07.29 19:00 - Fullness

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    Avastu Maruti and SophiaSharon Larnia joined me. Unfortunately there was much thunder and lighting here so I lost the connection a few times.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, Sl delayed my arrival
    Avastu Maruti: hello again my friend
    Avastu Maruti: love to you
    stevenaia Michinaga: it has been some time.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Steven, Hi Avastu :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: My connection is a bit erratic tonight..please stand by
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you are gray Steven, is it raining where you are? It was storming here
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, but internet and SL were mis-behaving
    stevenaia Michinaga: am I in living color to you Avastu?
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope I didn't interrupt a topic?
    stevenaia Michinaga: only if the topic was silence
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Avastu Maruti: ha!
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what is on my mind, I think could be the topic of the opposite, maybe
    stevenaia Michinaga: explain
    stevenaia Michinaga: please
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been wondering, if appreciation, in the sense of pa, could mean a fullness
    stevenaia Michinaga: fullness?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to see realize things are appearances, and this illusion, that I see, is very full
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we use the phrases full of joy, full of life, etc
    stevenaia Michinaga: I see it more as emptyness and completeness, appriciate is all there needs to be
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: so within fullness is emptyness and completeness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I see the point :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have recently reflected on how opposites can complete thoughts such as that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
    stevenaia Michinaga: how one thing or one focused thought can be the world at a point
    stevenaia Michinaga: or, in what I do, the space that is created by architecture is the result of solid things
    stevenaia Michinaga: space
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the solid things can define the spaces :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: one cannot exist without the other
    SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting
    stevenaia Michinaga: it makes for a happy union
    stevenaia Michinaga: and balance
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes balance, I was trying to empty everything, to drop it, and, too long to state here, was having trouble. So, I gave that up, and the fullness rushed in :)
    Avastu Maruti smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: googled it and see there is so much written about the fullness of self, it was a 'doh' moment
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Avastu Maruti: fullness is your true nature - it is called ananda in the Vedanta - it is known when all seeking falls away
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i have had the giggles all day
    stevenaia Michinaga: so fullness is not accumulations, as such, more of a peaceful state
    Avastu Maruti: fullness is the principle necessary for all states - good or bad
    Avastu Maruti: that is acceptance
    SophiaSharon Larnia: acceptance?
    stevenaia Michinaga: and acceptance is the dropping of things
    Avastu Maruti: we may say acceptance is the recognition that this, right here and now, is all there ever is
    Avastu Maruti: and as such is already perfectly arising
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and it is very very full :)
    Avastu Maruti: it is you, my friend
    Avastu Maruti: you are that fullness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is everyone
    Avastu Maruti: everyone is an assumption of separateness - there is nothing outside of you
    Avastu Maruti: we may say everything is Being - all that appears is only Being
    stevenaia Michinaga: I work with an highly intuitive person who sees most things opposite of me,but it is usually an illusion as we are looking at the very same thing, like a door, only from different sides, it is always very amusing, but gives you perspective
    stevenaia Michinaga: emptyness being completeness
    stevenaia Michinaga: and fullness being completeness :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does it go beyond that
    stevenaia Michinaga: well when opposites are the same, what does it need to go beyond
    stevenaia Michinaga: it becomes simplicity
    stevenaia Michinaga: the irony is the effort it takes to find simplicity
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i just know i feel beeter than i have in a while, maybe since i started coming here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: better*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and although this doesn't matter, in a way
    stevenaia Michinaga: how did you feel before?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: emptiness is hard to look at, desperate, maybe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was thinking the wrong way
    Avastu Maruti: Is the ocean concerned which way the tide flows?
    Avastu Maruti: Self is not mind
    Avastu Maruti: because you are aware of the content and quality of thought, you must be prior to thought, witnessing it
    Avastu Maruti: yes?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i thought so
    Avastu Maruti: thought is an appearance which you objectify, as is the body
    Avastu Maruti: the true self is not objective
    Avastu Maruti: it does not appear yet is undeniably and intimately known at all times
    Avastu Maruti: that is what is actually meant by the word "I"
    Avastu Maruti: that is the reference
    Avastu Maruti: pure subjectivity
    Avastu Maruti: you are always present and aware - you are always awareness
    Avastu Maruti: that is the true "I"
    Avastu Maruti: or self
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so the self is not an appearance
    Avastu Maruti: the self is THAT to which all appearances come and go
    Avastu Maruti: experiences are always varied - experiencing is the very principle necessary for all experience
    Avastu Maruti: the experience and experiencer are objective
    Avastu Maruti: the self remains untouched no matter the experience
    Avastu Maruti: that is the true meaning of acceptance
    Avastu Maruti: like the mirror reflects all without preference
    Avastu Maruti: the self reflects or registers all experience equally and effortlessly
    Avastu Maruti: you are the self
    Avastu Maruti: and the self is all there is
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was working under the assumption that all relative things are appearance :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia is taken over by another fit of the giggles
    Avastu Maruti: all relative things ARE appearance
    Avastu Maruti: name and form only
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (whoops Steven crashed)
    Avastu Maruti: if I hold a flower and ask - does flower exist - what will you say?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i would say, we both agree that the matter that makes up the flower appearance in your hand
    SophiaSharon Larnia: appears
    Avastu Maruti: so does flower exist?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) to us it does
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Steven :)
    Avastu Maruti: so if I take off the petals, the leaves and the top, I now hold stem. Does stem exist?
    Avastu Maruti: wp steven
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to us, the same as the flower
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    Avastu Maruti: so if I take the petals, leaves, top of flower and stem, and crush them to powder, now powder exists, yes?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Avastu Maruti: so what happened to the flower?
    Avastu Maruti: where did it go?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok that is the matter of matter it changes, the idea of flower is in our minds
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the nature of *
    Avastu Maruti: flower never actually existed as an absolute separate "thing"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Steven :) I hope you can stay
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no it didn't
    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s the storm outside
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes its your way now Steven
    stevenaia Michinaga: your gift :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: going north east, i think
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no it didnt Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: all things are exactly like this
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i understand this
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a thought thing
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (ok i speak too fast) lol
    Avastu Maruti: the world is made of concepts
    Avastu Maruti: nothing can be known absolutely except your own existence
    Avastu Maruti: and that is known intimately
    Avastu Maruti: that is Being
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how can i know my own existence, absolutely??
    Avastu Maruti: are you here?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think i am here
    Avastu Maruti: in fact all you really know is that you are here
    Avastu Maruti: present and aware
    Avastu Maruti: that is how you know that you ARE
    Avastu Maruti: that presence is the self
    Avastu Maruti: pure subjectivity which objectifies even the body, thoughts, feelings, even space and time are objective to the self
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so is to appreciate the presence of being is to appreciate the presence of self?
    Avastu Maruti: they are one and the same
    Avastu Maruti: but the spiritual search is to try to objectify the self. It cannot be done
    Avastu Maruti: you cannot find being because you ARE THAT
    Avastu Maruti: that is what is doing the looking, so to speak
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so appreciating all appearances is really appreciating aspects of my self, even things i find uncomfortable
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    Avastu Maruti: all "things" are only aspects of your very self
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is still laughing :)
    Avastu Maruti: the idea of a separate self is the concept - if we walk outside and look up at the trees, the birds, the sky
    Avastu Maruti: life is looking at itself
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Steven :)) again
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this was brought on by a dream I had, of many eyes looking :)
    Avastu Maruti: the world cannot appear without relativity
    Avastu Maruti: that is what steven was referring to - emptiness IS completeness
    Avastu Maruti: manyness is oneness
    Avastu Maruti: that play of opposites is necessary - duality is inherently necessary yet it is only relative to a perspective
    Avastu Maruti: the absolute is only the self
    Avastu Maruti: and you are already that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this is the first I am hearing that the absolute lies in the self
    Avastu Maruti: Vedanta calls it Brahman - another word for Oneness or Life or God or whatever
    Avastu Maruti: brahman is defined as satchitananda
    Avastu Maruti: sat is Being
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i didnt think it could found in anything that can appear
    Avastu Maruti: chit is knowing
    Avastu Maruti: ananda is fullness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh my
    Avastu Maruti: being IS knowing
    Avastu Maruti: you are present and aware
    Avastu Maruti: same thing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    Avastu Maruti: seeking obscures this ananda or fullness
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking how what you were searching for at the beginning of this conversation you found when you stopped searching
    Avastu Maruti: when seeking dissolves, ananda is revealed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i gave up a while ago i just haven't said here
    stevenaia Michinaga: gave up searching?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but started doing the 9 sec stops again, and instead of 'dropping' the bell reminded me to pay more attention to the now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not exactly, just gave up thinking i could understand
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for saying this :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the self as absolute? what an idea
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    Avastu Maruti: it's not a new idea
    Avastu Maruti: self is Atman
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no
    Avastu Maruti: atman is brahman
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i know :))
    Avastu Maruti: pure self (subjectivity) is translated by the mind with the words "I AM"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just hearing things ive read or heard, but like for the first time, again...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must depart, thank you for joining me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Steven :)
    Avastu Maruti: but the mind can only think in terms of "things" or objects
    stevenaia Michinaga: good seeing both of you again
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend - love to you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I must go as well, its been a long day for me :)
    Avastu Maruti: love to you, my friend
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you are so kind to say these things, love to you also :))
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