2009.08.08 13:00 - Examining

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.


    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hello sophiasharon ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you??
    Bertram Jacobus: ty fine, but i have a problem : i have impressions, that i disturb the PaB group -
    Bertram Jacobus: and how are you ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no, I haven't had seen that at all! I personally am very interested in what you say
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. very kind of you. tyvm - strange ... if this is only my illusion ? perhaps i ask some more members ... i´ll see ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Doug
    Bertram Jacobus: hello doug ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: when I first came here I talked on and on
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the longer I've been here the more I am quiet, and it has little to do with running out of topics
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh my brb sorry!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: back sorry
    Bertram Jacobus: i see. that is one of my doubts - you met it very good. "am i talking too much? is it ok for the others what i say?" and similar thoughts ...
    Bertram Jacobus: no problem at all - rl sometimes calls us suddenly ! ... ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes someone at the door
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am no sage obviously, but sometimes there is real need to bounce ideas off another, in whatever way it occurs
    Bertram Jacobus: and also "am i too oppositional" ?
    Bertram Jacobus: to much i meant
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you are able to voice what a lot of us have thought, I don't see that as oppositional
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and brave enough to say it
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. i´m happy that the people here are so very much constructive ... that´s my impression until now ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no one is here to judge you, I do forget this and censor myself all of the time
    Bertram Jacobus: and i ask myself, wheather it was okay to be destructive also in relation to ideas from which i may think, that they are "not right" (??) ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have an opinion that others may not share, that sometimes, to clean the house, you have to make more of a mess, in the sense of pulling everything out and examining it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but the word 'mess' doesn't mean a 'mess', just more things to look at
    doug Sosa: "Not right" implies that there are ideas that are right. I rather think that sme are better than others but never reach the stage of "right".
    SophiaSharon Larnia: true doug
    Bertram Jacobus: but, for example - sorry : i try to choose a definite one to make myself understood - to kill a child - in most cases couldn´t one say, that was wrong ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: 'not right' and 'right' are relative, as is the idea that anything needs to be cleaned in the first place
    doug Sosa: No reason to think of killing a child. it is too remote from most onversations so it acts as a kind of awkward marker.
    Bertram Jacobus: sorry again please - what can i say - does it show my bad state and habits ? having many bad aspects of life also in my mind ? but then - the other way round. had better choosed that at once (!) : to help others, under regarding all aspects which one can regard - couldn´t one say, that was "right" ?
    doug Sosa: To say it is "right" implies that it s "right" regardeless of contexts. I beleive that context can change anything.
    Bertram Jacobus: how would you call that then please what i tried to describe ? (to help others, normally)
    doug Sosa: Helping others also always has a context, and in that context is oneself. One way to look at it is, how do my actions or inactions affect the context, including myself?
    doug Sosa: Nobody can help another with out some degree of self reference and motivation. If the helping is aggressive, then it may not help so much.
    Bertram Jacobus: acting in a agressive way may not be called "helpful" ... (?) ... hm
    doug Sosa: not just aggressive, helful aggression, like "can I help you to someone who is not asking and does not need it.
    Bertram Jacobus: and that the circumstances would brake all principals - or the principals of right and wrong - that is not my impression. i know, i´m in contrary with this to the most spiritual people ... hm :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes, i meant that what you described doug. i agree so far
    doug Sosa: good, thanks.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: most of us live with a moral compass Bertram
    SophiaSharon Larnia: if this is relative to the situation Bertram, then so be it
    doug Sosa: but the copass feels to me like itpoints more or less, but not with cgreat clarity.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: moral seem to be a word which is under strong accusations in our days. and that may be right. but could also be sad ...
    Bertram Jacobus: seems*
    doug Sosa: "strong accusations" is itself very strong. what about a milder tone. In deed, who would bothe to strongly accuse morality?
    doug Sosa: =other
    doug Sosa: oops, =bother
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is under much debate, I see where you're coming from
    doug Sosa: Whe debates it?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, who
    doug Sosa: Some don't give it any weight, but that is adiffeent things from attacking. Forthose whom it is not relevant, seeing it is not easy, so they can't attack something they feel is inconsequential.
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll try to express my ideas in a milder tone in future. sorry again please. and one additional problem for me is, that english i find not so easy to use especially with such delicate topics ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go :))
    Bertram Jacobus: hikari ? :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am off to Hikari, it is the one year celebration today, not to be missed :))
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - may be we all will visit that event (?) ... ;-)
    doug Sosa: But you seem to be listening wel, and the english is, except for the tendency to harshness, pretty good. No problem. and these are hard questions. I too must go.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I will think more of what you said doug, you are very right
    Bertram Jacobus: ty and have a good time both please
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
    Bertram Jacobus: bye sophiasharon
    Bertram Jacobus: and bye doug
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