2009.08.13 13:00 - Welcome and prayer

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    I have been away for three weeks, shedding most of my worldly goods and shipping the rest, vacating my home in Scotland, scattering my parents' ashes in an England lake, making a life-changing spiritual transition through the kindness of my teacher, emigrating to the United States, and getting married to the Love of my Life.

    I am most grateful to those guardians who have very kindly stepped in to cover for my absence, both planned and last minute: Scathach and Pila, Eliza ("Ah, wait. It is Storm today. He's in life transition. Ill grab it."), and sophia. Thank you so much!

    sophia Placebo: Hello
    Storm Nordwind: Hello sophia
    sophia Placebo: how are you ?
    Storm Nordwind: I'm fine thank you sophia. Recovering from a cold and acclimatizing to high altitude, but otherwise very good.
    I am living in what is known as "Mile High City". And I'm also getting used to this being a 2pm slot for me, local time, instead of 9pm.

    sophia Placebo: and congrats for the recent wedding ^^
    Storm Nordwind: You are very kind. Thank you so much!
    A crowd suddenly materializes!

    sophia Placebo: hi bert
    sophia Placebo: hi wol
    sophia Placebo: hi corv
    sophia Placebo: hi fox
    Wol Euler: hello storm!
    Storm Nordwind: Whoa...! Hi everyone - what a lot of people! :)
    sophia Placebo: yeah all of a sudden
    Wol Euler: hello sophia, bertram, corvi, fox
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Sophia, Storm, Bertram, Fox.
    Wol Euler: well, we saw you loggin in :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Congratulations, Storm.
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you! :))
    Bertram Jacobus: hi. hy and hey again :o)
    Storm Nordwind: I apologise for congested typing - I'm recovering from a cold... at high altitude!
    Wol Euler: eeep
    Wol Euler: how are you finding the altitude? is it as stressful as they say?
    Storm Nordwind: Oh it's fine. It's not new. Just everything all at once is new!
    Storm Nordwind: It's only 1600m+ so it's not too bad, but yes you get tired for a few weeks
    Bertram Jacobus: where is that if i may ask storm ?
    Storm Nordwind: I've just moved to Denver, Colorado
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Gaya
    sophia Placebo: hello gaya
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: cute, Gaya!
    Bertram Jacobus: i see. and that is 1600 m high ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Wol Euler: hello gaya
    Bertram Jacobus: hi gaya ... :-)
    Fox Monacular: hi Gaya
    Storm Nordwind: Yes Bert, or 5200ft if you prefer
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nice to see you Storm :)
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you Gaya
    sophia Placebo: cute sheep
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
    Storm Nordwind hides the apple sauce
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i prefere 1600 - but ty. it´s a help for convert ... :-)
    Wol Euler: and the mint ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Apple sauce is for pork no? heheheh
    Storm Nordwind: oh yes - wrong meat
    What a glorious welcome back! Thank you all! :) But it hasn't finished yet. The ritual must sortly continue... after I've started to find out what's been happening here of late.

    Storm Nordwind: So what news in PaB-land? What have I missed in the last few weeks?
    Wol Euler: we had two sessions back-to-back last weekend on watching thoughts arising
    Wol Euler: seeing the process of arrival, as it were
    Storm Nordwind: Wow!
    Wol Euler: yeah, it was really interesting to do.
    Storm Nordwind: That's a good discipline, especially if you can welcome them and let them go without following
    But first there are more games... :)

    Gaya Ethaniel notices wrong gaps ... and move next to Corvi ...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Wol Euler: well done, gaya! thank you :)
    Wol Euler: there were a lot of symmetry games too, storm :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Which I tend to mess up :)
    Bertram Jacobus: now only men and women are not yet in symmetrie lol ... ;o)
    Storm Nordwind sighs and smiles :)
    Wol Euler cams up and takes a snapsot
    Bertram Jacobus: what does you sigh mean storm ? :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Haha Bert! It just means that sometimes people want to play games, I don't always have the energy to follow :) (Though sometimes I start them!)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i seee . ty ...
    Wol Euler: for instance, that wonderful and now traditional PaB game called ...
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Wol Euler: oh boo.
    Wol Euler: stop
    Bertram Jacobus: lol :o)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: aww
    sophia Placebo: :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: onigokko
    Wol Euler: c'mon, put them on. We must welcome Storm back in proper style.
    Gaya Ethaniel: stop
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ready!
    Wol Euler: fox, do you have an Onigokko?
    Bertram Jacobus: fabulous ! :-)
    Wol Euler: Bertram, I think I gave you once...
    Storm Nordwind: ready
    Fox Monacular: do, what is this?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fox Monacular: I want one too!
    Wol Euler: ok, I'll give you that, just a mo
    Wol Euler: stop
    Fox Monacular: thanks, what do I do with it?
    Wol Euler: if you wear it (invisible)
    Bertram Jacobus: onigokko
    Wol Euler: it attaches to your eyeball, and is inert and harmless until somebody says the magic word
    sophia Placebo: onigokko
    Wol Euler: got it on?
    Fox Monacular: hahahahaahah
    Wol Euler laughs
    sophia Placebo: haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: lool . ty :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: stop
    Wol Euler: stop
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Wow - I feel back at home now!!!
    Bertram Jacobus: stooop
    Wol Euler smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: stop stop stop ! lol
    Fox Monacular: wow, i'll do it all the time now
    Wol Euler: you two may need to use the "stop all animations" command in the World menu to fix yourself
    Wol Euler: then sttand and sit again
    Wol Euler: 'cause it does stop ALL anims :)
    Bertram Jacobus: wonderful item ! ... ty wol :-)
    Wol Euler flicks Gaya's tail and giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :P
    Storm Nordwind: That was a lovely welcome. Just like old times! :)
    Wol Euler: yw, bertram, it provies hours of harmless fun :)
    Bertram Jacobus: astonishing, that such things exist : harmless funs - how nice ! :-)
    Wol Euler: yeah, RL needs more better anims :)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    I'm at home with old friends. The welcome ritual is complete and everyone is happy. We settle down to talk of recent highlights.

    Storm Nordwind: So we've had symmetry games and watching thoughts arise... any other new themed sessions, or interesting existing ones?
    Wol Euler nudges Sophia and smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: The one on prayer?
    Bertram Jacobus: hi mick ! ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hello Mick
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick
    Fox Monacular: hi Mick
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
    sophia Placebo: hi mick
    Mickorod Renard: yea..hiya
    Storm Nordwind: Tell me about the one on prayer please Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: yea..its storm
    sophia Placebo: i was translating nudge
    Gaya Ethaniel nudges sophia :P
    Wol Euler: oh, sorry :)
    sophia Placebo: lol
    Storm Nordwind: nudge = something you do to a slot machine ;)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Arabella!
    Bertram Jacobus: hi arabella ... :-)
    Wol Euler: or a way of saying "your turn" :)
    sophia Placebo: hi ara
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Mick!
    Fox Monacular: hi Arabella
    Mickorod Renard: hi Ara
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    Storm Nordwind: Hi arabella!
    arabella Ella: great to be back!
    sophia Placebo: ok ty
    sophia Placebo: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
    arabella Ella: how lovely thetune ... thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel likes the tune very much.
    Storm Nordwind likes the sentiment very much!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: (sorry : just have to use my virtual legs for some moments - please don´t feel disturbed)
    sophia begins to tell me of the recent themed session on prayer.

    sophia Placebo: there was this themed session about prayer with Geo me and Pema
    Storm Nordwind: Sounds interesting. Did you have a common understanding of the meaning of the word 'prayer'?
    sophia Placebo: i guess ,hmm talking freely about yourself , your weakness and douts , your faults
    sophia Placebo: your hopes and such
    sophia Placebo: kind of intimate whisper if i may use the word intimate
    Mickorod Renard: maybe prayer opens up something inside,,an honesty just for a fleeting few mins
    Wol Euler: it seems appropriate
    There's a short interlude for comings and goings.

    sophia Placebo: hello yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: hi yaku ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Fox Monacular: hi yakuzza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: congratulations storm
    arabella Ella: Hiya Yak
    Mickorod Renard: hi Yaku
    Storm Nordwind: Greeting Yakuzza
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you Yak!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yakuzza :)
    arabella Ella: oh yes Storm I hear congratulations are in order ... excuse me for not congratulating you before but i was on vacation this past week :)
    Storm Nordwind smiles and blushes
    Storm Nordwind: That's quite all right ara :)
    sophia Placebo: yes mick defintly an honesty
    arabella Ella: but its surprising how news travels even when one does not have internet access :)
    Storm Nordwind raises an eyebrow!
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: mick owns up to telling Ara
    Storm Nordwind: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Goodbye my freinds...
    arabella Ella: Mick I was gonna say it was on the front pages of all Spanish newspapers
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: time for me to go.
    Wol Euler: bye corvi, take care.
    Wol Euler: enjoy the day.
    sophia Placebo: bye corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel: See you Corvi :) Enjoy your day.
    Mickorod Renard: bye Corvi
    arabella Ella: bye corvi
    Fox Monacular: bye Corvi
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Corvi - thanks for dropping by
    The conversation returns to prayer and possibly similar practices, and arabella starts a discussion.

    arabella Ella: may i ask two things about prayer ... generally to all here
    Gaya Ethaniel listens.
    Storm Nordwind: Please do ara
    Wol Euler: sure
    arabella Ella: first of all ... is there something common to prayer (or similar) which both people of faith and people of no faith pursue? and why?
    arabella Ella: and secondly
    arabella Ella: it is said that there is power in prayer which involves masses of people thinking in the same direction
    arabella Ella: and that such mass thinking can have effects ... what do you think?
    Storm Nordwind: What great questions! :)
    arabella Ella would love to hear Storm's comments too ...
    Storm Nordwind: Who would like to have a go first? :)
    Mickorod Renard: well volunteered storm
    arabella Ella: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Hum!
    Gaya Ethaniel: One of a well-known Korean Buddhist monk often asked people to perform prostrations as a prayer especially for others. People who came to see him in person understood the request so guess it can be a common practice perhaps in certain cases.
    Storm Nordwind: OK well firstly, I suspect it depends on a definition of prayer. If you mean focus thought - like a laser beam - that's one thing. If you mean an intimate conversation with some being then I think that's another
    arabella Ella: could we perhaps focus on the first definition to incorporate everyone, both those of faith and those of no faith?
    Gaya Ethaniel: True ... depends on definition. I meant 'wishing well'.
    arabella Ella: as i feel the second is incorporated in the first definition IMHO
    sophia Placebo: a conversation about laser beam thought
    Storm Nordwind: I'm not sure that would work ara, because personal intimate prayer can often lack focus
    Mickorod Renard: would one think that prayer involves humbling oneself to open an innermost feeling
    arabella Ella: altho personal intimate prayer is also a means of self reflection and reflection on others
    arabella Ella: besides of course incorporating repetive chant like phrases
    Mickorod Renard: I think its pointless during prayer to lie to ones self
    Storm Nordwind: Self-honesty is very hard for many people Mick. It's so much easier to be honest with other people!
    arabella Ella: i personally dont think self honesty could ever be objective ... however much effort one makes
    arabella Ella: it is one perspective amongst others
    Storm Nordwind: Good point ara. You would have to be able to see things as they really are.
    Bertram Jacobus: i think the common aspects in prayers for faithful people as well for not faithful ones are thankssayings and wishes ...
    arabella Ella: which is impossible Storm ... to see things as they really are ... again IMHO
    Storm Nordwind smiles

    Now THAT is a whole other discussion!! I'm not going to comment further here; it would be unfair in a commentary. Though I will mention that my occasional blog, "Words of a Seer", has the subtitle "Seer: someone who sees reality as it really is".

    Mickorod Renard: good point Bert
    arabella Ella: but Bert ... those who have been raised as I have been ...
    arabella Ella: have also experienced prayer as rote repetition
    arabella Ella: not always necessarily with thanks or wishes
    Mickorod Renard: afk for a min..scuse me
    Storm Nordwind: ara - why do people pray in those cases?
    arabella Ella: habit? conditioning? culture?
    Bertram Jacobus: that was not what i meant ara - it was thought as thought regarding to your question what is common for the two groups of people ...
    arabella Ella: an ingrained way of being part of a 'religion'
    arabella Ella: oh i see Bert
    arabella Ella: ty for clarification
    arabella Ella: that too is part of what prayer involves ... or mass thinking
    Bertram Jacobus: ty too for your wonderful questions
    arabella Ella: :)
    I take arabella's point about "mass thinking" and develop it in a slightly different direction.

    Storm Nordwind: Mass thinking and mass feeling seems to me to have great effect, but often on masses of people rather than on inanimate objects or other life-forms. It is certainly something I have felt on several occasions.
    arabella Ella: concerning that which is common ... some people of no faith ... some perhaps present here today too ... practice meditation ... which could be considered as part of what i am referring to
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't quite understand that sentence ... Storm could you explain or give us an example please?
    Fox Monacular: RL calls, have a good day everyone!
    Wol Euler: bye fox, take care
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Fox :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye fox you too
    Mickorod Renard: bac
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    arabella Ella: Storm ... do you think mass thinking and mass feeling could have a tangible visible positive effect ... say like healing for example?
    Mickorod Renard: bye fox
    sophia Placebo: some pray just to show others that they pray whatever is their reason behind that, some do pray or still attaching themselves to tradition cause they are still not sure to leave or to stay, some uncomfortable feelings arise and they want to ascertain them, some do pray cause the enviroment of prayer had been co existing with some good feelings in the past and they like to keep remmbering
    Storm Nordwind: Gaya - an example would be August 31 1997, when there was a tangible wave of emotion that gripped the whole of the UK
    Storm Nordwind: That was the death of Pricess Diana
    Wol Euler nods.
    arabella Ella: not only the UK I guess Storm
    Gaya Ethaniel wasn't gripped ... I was surprised to see so many people grieving for her most of whom bought papers that employed the photographers and criticised her continously before ...
    Wol Euler: true :)
    Storm Nordwind: Indeed Gaya, but the air was thick with the emotion, and it substantially affected people's behaviour
    Mickorod Renard: I have to admit to being touched by everyones grief over her death
    Storm Nordwind: And that's the point Mick... you were perhaps touched by people's grief, rather than by your own grief
    Wol Euler: ooh, good point.
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: English people don't show emotions publicly like that ... true.
    Wol Euler: contagious emotions
    Mickorod Renard: but I am sensitive to others grief
    Storm Nordwind: Me too. I fully understand
    arabella Ella: and Storm do you see that as linked to mass feeling?
    Gaya Ethaniel: People realise almost always afterwards ... too late.
    Storm Nordwind: Not so much that arabella as more like Wol described as contagious feeling
    Mickorod Renard: hi Nymf
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Nymf :)
    sophia Placebo: hi nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: Good day everyone :)
    arabella Ella: hiyaNymf
    Wol Euler: hello nymf
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Nymf
    arabella Ella: so in this case ... the feeling has to be known to be effective ... what if it were not known ... could it then be effective somehow too?
    Bertram picks up on another point of arabella's, one which she illustrates with a reference to a stone circle. Having just visited one of the oldest stone circles in the real, just prior to my emigrating, I make a comment.

    Bertram Jacobus: ara ? may i ask ? what did you mean before with that meditators, non faithful people (you know the statement i mean?) -
    arabella Ella: i will give you an example Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hi nymf ... :-)
    arabella Ella: here on SL there is a group
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi nymf
    arabella Ella: who meet at a stone circle on SL every last Tuesday of the month
    arabella Ella: and meditate
    arabella Ella: and as far as i am aware
    arabella Ella: they are non believers
    arabella Ella: or most of them are
    Bertram Jacobus: ah !
    arabella Ella: i am not judinging so dont get me wrong
    Bertram Jacobus: no no
    Mickorod Renard: do they not believe in something else?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    arabella Ella: but what they do is similar to a religious ceremony
    arabella Ella: they actually believe strongly in the rights of 'native' people
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps thier religion is to the earth and the sun?
    Bertram Jacobus: oh i see - and then ? any questions refering to that or conclusions ? or even results ? :-)
    arabella Ella: could be ... i am not sure
    arabella Ella: i dont know enough about what they do to say much more Bert
    arabella Ella: all i know is that most if not all claim to be atheists
    Storm Nordwind remembers visiting a 5000 year old stone circle in RL just before traveling to the US
    arabella Ella: (again no judgements)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night everyone :)
    arabella Ella: we have some stone circles here in Malta too Storm
    Mickorod Renard: I love visiting stone circles
    sophia Placebo: night gaya
    arabella Ella: may I ask which you visited?
    Nymf Hathaway: Good night Gaya :)
    Storm Nordwind waves to Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Congratulations again Storm :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but ... in relation to the topic now - where is the link ? i´m a bit slow in understanding at the moment may be sry
    Wol Euler wonders whether atheism isn't itself an orthodoxy
    arabella Ella: nite Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: nite Gaya
    Wol Euler: goodnight gaya
    Storm Nordwind: Castlerigg ara
    arabella Ella: in Scotland?
    Storm Nordwind: Cumbria
    At 5200 years old, Castlerigg is one of the earliest stone circles in Britain, and possibly Europe too. No one knows for sure which is the oldest. Meanwhile the discussion continues apace and we are all deeply lost in it!

    Mickorod Renard: I'm an Arbor Low man myself
    Bertram Jacobus: good night gaya
    arabella Ella: interesting
    Storm Nordwind: Very nice Mick. Wonderful site
    arabella Ella feels the energy each time i visit a stone circle
    Bertram Jacobus: ah - it´s the question, wheather non faithful people when they meditate, do the same like people with faith ara ?
    arabella Ella: yes Bert ... are they similar acts?
    arabella Ella: or could they be perceived as similar?
    Mickorod Renard: what is fundemental to me is that I feel the energy of life itself,,and I feel so grateful for it,,especially when at that site
    arabella Ella: and are there tangible effects?
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... and i woud spontaneous say : can be. ;-)
    Storm Nordwind nods to Mick
    arabella Ella: even when the acts are not known to those who are effected
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    arabella Ella: nite Yak
    sophia Placebo: night yak
    Wol Euler: 'night yakuzza, take care
    Mickorod Renard: nite Yak
    Nymf Hathaway: Good night Yakuzza
    Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Yakuzza
    Mickorod Renard: Fef was elusive
    Nymf Hathaway: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Like a transient thought
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: an Appearance!
    Wol Euler: or perhaps just an Arising.
    Bertram Jacobus: first : i liked the comment storm gave : that such effects are quite obviously on masses - when they are known . second : i think and feel sometimes for example when a bad or a good athmosphere seems to be somewhere. but that still should be researched i guess to get sure results ara.
    arabella Ella: well one thing comes to mind
    arabella Ella: there are ancient sites in various parts of the world
    arabella Ella: with similarities even tho people had no means to communicate
    arabella Ella: and it is a mystery how this came about
    Mickorod Renard: it sure is Ara, I wonder this too,,,but I believe that people in general do find the need to want to belong,,belong to a bigger thing
    Mickorod Renard: something unifying,,and maybe its all part of that
    arabella Ella: but Mick we must not forget that many people in the western world today reject that thought
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps as a spieces we are linked but have lost identifying what it is
    Wol Euler: or perhaps we displace that onto politics or environmental activism ...
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure they reject the notion,,just want to show they are independant
    Mickorod Renard: that must be onother medium for belonging too Wol
    arabella Ella: i think we must remember as Wol said that there are other dominating forces today that control the lives and thoughts of many people
    arabella Ella: materialism for one
    arabella Ella: media another
    arabella Ella: science too
    Mickorod Renard: but ur missing the spiritual need
    sophia Placebo: they are covering the thought like a farmer covering the seed , nevertheless , the seed grows
    Bertram Jacobus: but spirituality is not seldom nowadays too
    arabella Ella: but Mick I think people can be spiritual even without religious faith
    I have been caught up in this wonderful discussion and not noticed that the start time for an important workshop passed several minutes ago. Bad guardian - no biscuit for you!

    Storm Nordwind: Oh... by the way... does anyone want to be in the Cafe for WoK? :-O
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,yes
    Mickorod Renard: is stim doing it?
    Storm Nordwind: I am completely thrown by the change of timezone
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Storm Nordwind: Yes he's there with 6 others
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Hades Nostram: Hi all
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,on my way to wok
    arabella Ella: Hiya Hade
    arabella Ella: Hades
    sophia Placebo: hi hades
    Mickorod Renard: hi Hades
    Nymf Hathaway: No needs to get into her bed :( sorry I wasn't much of a talker :( have fun everyone, till later
    Bertram Jacobus: hi hades ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hello hades, nice av :)
    arabella Ella: bye Nymf
    Wol Euler: I too must get to bed, goodnight all.
    sophia Placebo: bye nymf
    arabella Ella: nite Wol
    Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Wol
    Bertram Jacobus: bye nymf and wol
    Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye everyone :)
    Hades Nostram: Thanks... note* Harmles 4us!
    sophia Placebo: night wol
    arabella Ella: i am off to Kira hope to c some of you there :)
    Hades Nostram: Bye!
    Storm Nordwind: Bye ara
    arabella Ella: and congrats again Storm :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye ara
    Storm Nordwind: You seem to have joined us right at the close of the session Hades
    sophia Placebo: see you later , bye
    Storm Nordwind: Bye sophia
    Hades Nostram: I noticed :) to late..
    Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia ...
    Hades Nostram: Next time i will attend on time :)
    Storm Nordwind: Still there will be another session in 5 hours
    Hades Nostram: Bye Sophia
    Hades Nostram: Ok,..then i am in dreamland
    Storm Nordwind: Where in the world are you?
    Bertram Jacobus: aren´t we already ? ;-)
    Storm Nordwind smiles at Bert
    Hades Nostram: Netherlands,EU
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes
    Hades Nostram: :) it is a sort of dreamland...i agree
    Storm Nordwind: You need 10/4/10/4 am/pm Hades
    Hades Nostram: Ok..thanks for noticing
    Storm Nordwind smiles "You're welcome"
    Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me too
    Hades Nostram: Thank you!
    Hades Nostram: Have fun ..and see you later
    Bertram Jacobus: sure. have a good time storm and ty
    Hades Nostram: Bye :)
    Storm Nordwind: Goodbye for now
    Hades Nostram: :)
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