2009.08.14 19:00 - Avatar appearance as a display of being

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Dakini Rhode. The comments are by Dakini Rhode.

    Eos, Lingerer, Adams and Doug continue the previous nights' discussion of avatar appearance

    Eos Amaterasu: We're actually getting some real summer weather, with sunshine
    Eos Amaterasu: beautiful, blue, green, warm, bird sounds
    Eos Amaterasu: (just like here :-)
    Lingerer Xaris: are you enjoying your walks?
    Lingerer Xaris: I wish Philadelphia were like this pavalion
    Lingerer Xaris: pavilion
    Eos Amaterasu: PaBilion
    Lingerer Xaris: lol
    Lingerer Xaris: clever
    Lingerer Xaris: We had like 9 people in here last night
    Eos Amaterasu: that's a good question, how to find PaB group/shared spaces in RL
    Lingerer Xaris: LOL


    Eos Amaterasu: what was the theme, if any?
    Lingerer Xaris: We talked about the attractiveness of our avatars
    Lingerer Xaris: and how it factors into the idea of sharing being
    Lingerer Xaris: Someone said that there had never been a discussion as such as PaB
    Eos Amaterasu: without appearance there's no handles
    Lingerer Xaris: I changed Lingerer to look a bit more like me b/c I thought i might help me with my experience of authenticity here
    Lingerer Xaris: but, of course, this avatar is still way hotter than me.
    Lingerer Xaris: grins
    Eos Amaterasu: Avatar: "don't you wish your RL was hot like me?"
    Lingerer Xaris: hahahah
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Doug
    Lingerer Xaris: Doug!
    Lingerer Xaris: I was just telling Eos about our discussion yesterday
    doug Sosa: hi, i moved so i could see you both, fountain was in the way.
    doug Sosa: good.

    being as intrinsic hottiness?

    Eos Amaterasu: How hot are we intrinsically?
    Lingerer Xaris: I took your cue, and decided to make my avatar look more like me.
    Lingerer Xaris: Although, as I was just saying, this avatar is still way hotter
    Lingerer Xaris: but the general idea is there
    doug Sosa: still wow.
    Lingerer Xaris: I wonder if all that catharsis last night will lead to even greater depth today
    doug Sosa: i hope so. an exploration of mind, how thoughts come to be, where they go, is easier if one can actually talk bout them as they are.
    Lingerer Xaris: i agree!
    doug Sosa: how did you choose how you are now? At every point of choice more as you are?
    Lingerer Xaris: Clarify, please?
    doug Sosa: well, you changed appearance. as you did what was going through your mind?
    Lingerer Xaris: aha
    Lingerer Xaris: I was thinking at first how interesting it was that I chose to be a dark haired, tan skinned woman first
    Lingerer Xaris: then, i was thinking about how odd it is to make my avatar resemble me at all
    Lingerer Xaris: and wondered if my ego was so strong that i needed to appear like myself even in other realities
    Lingerer Xaris: then, i guess i decided that if I could feel like 'myself' more when sitting in this circle, maybe i would feel less self-conscious
    Eos Amaterasu: "What was your original face before your avatar was worn?" -:)


    Lingerer Xaris: and actually, it has worked
    doug Sosa: that might be a hard quesion.
    Lingerer Xaris: did i misunderstand your question?
    doug Sosa: easier might be - how did you chose the hands?
    Lingerer Xaris: well, i wanted an interesting outfit. when i realized i could wrap my body in a picture, i was thrilled
    Eos Amaterasu: A lot , or most of our experiences seem serendipitous, accidental, ongong binding together with self/world fallout
    Lingerer Xaris: it wrapped my hand and feet by default
    doug Sosa: i was going to ask about the colors on the vest..
    Lingerer Xaris: look at this goregous lady!
    Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
    Lingerer Xaris: Hi Abigail
    doug Sosa: hi!
    Adams Rubble: Hello Lingerer. Nice to meet you :)
    Lingerer Xaris: Eos, were you asking me what my choice of outfit represented?
    Fox Monacular: Hi everyone
    Lingerer Xaris: Hi Fox
    Adams Rubble: Hello Fox
    doug Sosa: oops, gone?
    Adams Rubble: Eos seems to have craSHED
    Lingerer Xaris: See, Fox has definitely appeared in a different form from RL. Or so I am assuming. LOL
    Lingerer Xaris: Hi Fox, we were discussing appearance
    Fox Monacular: it's all just an illusion anyway
    doug Sosa: and hottiness.
    Lingerer Xaris: welcome back Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: discorporated
    Adams Rubble: wb Eos
    Lingerer Xaris: Doug, did I answer your question? Or did I totally misunderstand it?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Dakini :)
    doug Sosa: For me, when i arrive in the circle, i am most aware of who si where and how they look, and as i try to take that in i realize that the image i get say of abigail triggers off things in me that abigail was not intendeding, and i am missing what abigail did intend. perhaps i am realizing that i pay more attention
    Dakini Rhode: hi Adams & all :-)
    Lingerer Xaris: hi Dakini
    doug Sosa: to apprearances than i thought.
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Lingerer Xaris: aha. i understand
    Eos Amaterasu: It's hard to connect except thru appearances
    Lingerer Xaris: Yet, I find our silences very bonding
    Eos Amaterasu: <bell>
    Fox Monacular: Sorry everyone. I gotta go.......
    doug Sosa: right but when the apperance is misleading, what kind of connection is possible? I find the conection i would make based on appearance is not quite what i would make based on the possible reality. neither is "better", just really different - and that is an assumption hard to test here.
    Eos Amaterasu: bye fox
    Lingerer Xaris: ha, fox, that jump up was awesome
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Fix :)
    Eos Amaterasu: reality is kind of peer to peer avatar to avatar here
    Adams Rubble: shows appearances is not what we think Doug
    Eos Amaterasu: and genuineness can present there also
    Eos Amaterasu: here
    Eos Amaterasu: it's interesting that in vajrayana buddhism, for example, you often visualize yourself as 16 years old
    Eos Amaterasu: male or female

      SL appearance as a signal of genuine feelings or desires...

    doug Sosa: yet i think the "apperance" here is a signal of genuine feelings or desires. Not always but often. </bell>
    Adams Rubble: do you?
    doug Sosa: question is to who?
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, I have done such practices
    doug Sosa: ah.
    Lingerer Xaris: Why Eos? (regarding the visualization)
    Adams Rubble: rhetorical question to you Doug :)
    Eos Amaterasu: well, I think there are idealized forms
    doug Sosa: ok, do I what?
    Eos Amaterasu: and it's an interesting question to ask how "old" one is anyway

         Which appearance is more "real"?

    Dakini Rhode: it could be said that we are attached to a false appearance of ourselves (in first life)
    Adams Rubble: It can be helpful to approach spiritual matters with a new mind
    Eos Amaterasu: fresh
    Lingerer Xaris: Ha, I like what you just said, Dakini
    Adams Rubble: yes Dakini
    Dakini Rhode: and that visualizing ourselves otherwise (or playing at it in SL) can be helpful in loosening that attachment
    Eos Amaterasu: a "dakini" is such a visualization
    Adams Rubble: helps us see ourselvs from a different angle
    Eos Amaterasu: and that we're always visualizing ourselves anyway
    doug Sosa: yes but. why do we fairly usually chose to look thinner and more attractive here rather than fatter and more delapidated than we are?
    Lingerer Xaris: good point. i tried the love-handle version of this avatar and was not having it
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's like music - you want to make good music
    Adams Rubble: The more I think about it I don;t think that matters Doug
    Eos Amaterasu: playful forms
    doug Sosa: Thanks. so it is not just a question of increased detachment.
    Lingerer Xaris: well, i think it is interesting to note that we want to present ourselves in the best light
    Adams Rubble: We behgin to look past the appearance
    doug Sosa: adams, what doesn't matter?
    Eos Amaterasu: or appearance is a way of shining
    Dakini Rhode: Adams I think that is is something SL has reinforced for me
    Adams Rubble: That we are so often in an idealized form
    Dakini Rhode: looking beyond appearances
    Lingerer Xaris: i like that, Eos, a way of shining
    Adams Rubble: I am the same person in my many manifestations
    Adams Rubble: yet I can be typed in any
    doug Sosa: Well, it matters to me and that we talk about it so little gets in the way for me. i find the apperances intrguing and attracting and lead me to always question, who is really there and why are they making these choices?
    Dakini Rhode: Do we get closer to what it is that doesn't change despite the various appearances?
    Adams Rubble: Have fun Doug :)
    Eos Amaterasu: that's an interesting part : i and many manifestations
    Adams Rubble: or because Dakini?
    doug Sosa: Given that almst all chose to be really attractive, to the point of , well, if such folks were in RL I'd make a major effort to get closer to them..
    Dakini Rhode: interesting, because instead of despite?
    Dakini Rhode: haha doug i look the same in R
    doug Sosa: so if it is just about detachment and objectivity and learning to discount apperance, why is it so impoant that people chose in the direction they do?
    Dakini Rhode: L
    Eos Amaterasu: is it about detachment and discounting appearance?
    Adams Rubble: who said it is important?
    doug Sosa: I wonder what you mean by "just the same" Here you are only about three inches tall :)
    Adams Rubble guffaws
    Eos Amaterasu: inch and a half :-)
    Lingerer Xaris: lol, doug
    Dakini Rhode: haha much taller on my console :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: We're six inches apart, and thousands of miles away
    doug Sosa: Adams, i devine that it is important. if it were not, then appreances chosen would be more - what's a good word? alcking aesthetic.
    Adams Rubble: It might change but right now it allows us to look past appearances at the real person
    doug Sosa: That to me is really an illusion. I am sure i could see the real you more if we were sitting like this in RL.
    Adams Rubble: We can then carry that into RL if we allow it to shatter our assumptions of beauty
    doug Sosa: I think here we reinforce our assumptions of beauty. lets all try coming ugle, would it not be a different experience?
    Adams Rubble: Many do
    doug Sosa: and I do have to go and cook dinner for some screaming people.
    Lingerer Xaris: Well, I've only seen one ugly avatar at Play and Being so far
    doug Sosa: so bye.. for now... and untill..
    Lingerer Xaris: I'll grow a horn on my head
    Lingerer Xaris: good conversation Doug
    Lingerer Xaris: later
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, Doug!
    Dakini Rhode: night Doug
    Dakini Rhode: how's this?
    Adams Rubble: Dakini?
    Dakini Rhode: i guess the ugliness of my av's features won't translate to the chat log too well
    Adams Rubble: we can take a picture :)
    Dakini Rhode: there ya go :-)
    Adams Rubble giggles
    Adams Rubble: done
    Dakini Rhode: somehow i anticipate this will be on the front page and for some reason that bothers me :-)
    Lingerer Xaris: did i miss something?
    Lingerer Xaris: you look exactly the same
    Dakini Rhode: :-)
    Adams Rubble: I emailed ot to you Dakini :)
    Dakini Rhode: ty Adams :-)
    Dakini Rhode: .
    Dakini Rhode: excuse a moment (phone)
    Adams Rubble: Eos, why the age 16. Why not older or younger?
    Eos Amaterasu: I think there are pretty universal patterns about that, it's a kind of peak age
    Eos Amaterasu: peak of beauty just beginning to really flower, and to mature
    Eos Amaterasu: dakinis can also have fangs :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: and sharp instruments
    Eos Amaterasu: (for cutting ego)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: and liquor/amirita/potions for intoxicating appearance/being
    Adams Rubble: I need some Dakinis then :)
    Eos Amaterasu: you _are_ one :-)
    Adams Rubble: hehe, even more so
    Eos Amaterasu: playing with appearance, playing with/as being
    Eos Amaterasu: "though he thinks he's in a play, he is anyway" (Penny Lane)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: many plays
    Lingerer Xaris: nice reference
    Lingerer Xaris: I am going to take off. It was nice to meet you both. Nice to see you again, Eos.
    Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you too Lingerer bye
    Adams Rubble: whoops
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye, Lingere, good to see you again
    Eos Amaterasu: Nice hat, Adams :-)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: thank you
    Adams Rubble: trying to catch some summer :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Indeed, and your hat sends out some summer
    Adams Rubble wanders if there is a danger we could get attached to playing
    Eos Amaterasu: what would that danger be?
    Adams Rubble: that we are having so much fun we forget to listen
    Adams Rubble: or look
    Eos Amaterasu: ah, yes
    Eos Amaterasu: to care for others...
    Adams Rubble: ah...yes
    Eos Amaterasu: both serious and real, solid, and playful and illusory....
    Eos Amaterasu: that's also said to be a dakini quality
    Adams Rubble: The playing is good for opening to others for me
    Eos Amaterasu: can play tricks, to break up solidity of clinging/form
    Eos Amaterasu: but you can also try to run away, into form
    Adams Rubble: I guess we need to remember to watch ourselves play
    Eos Amaterasu: there's a fear that if we play, let go, it might get out of hand, crazy
    Dakini Rhode: we can play at many things, even at some of the things you mentioned Adams, like caring for others and seeing truly
    Eos Amaterasu: even with that, with caring, we likely can be playful
    Eos Amaterasu: the caring can become a trip
    Adams Rubble: Caring has certainly come out of play for me
    Dakini Rhode: we can be serious and caring and playful in the same situation
    Adams Rubble: You do that well Dakini :)
    Dakini Rhode: oh my
    Adams Rubble: so I believe you :)
    Eos Amaterasu: we can share the in-between spaces
    Dakini Rhode: an astrologer once told me i was an old child but I would grow younger as i aged - so when I find myself silly i remember that and enjoy it
    Eos Amaterasu: where its not this or that
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: so how old are you, "really"?
    Adams Rubble: I have been thinking about your point Eos that we fear play getting out of hand
    Adams Rubble: I have certainly done that
    Adams Rubble: and I am wondering why?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Steve :)
    Eos Amaterasu: what were you experiencing then?
    Dakini Rhode: hi Steve
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, thought I;d drop in :)
    Adams Rubble: always good to9 see you Steve
    Adams Rubble: can you believe I am still up :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: you are up late Adams
    Dakini Rhode: good to see your av
    Dakini Rhode: i can hardly believe we're both still up Adams :-)
    Adams Rubble: Eos, interesting question. I will have to think about it. Maybe it is a clue for me
    Adams Rubble: hehe Dakini
    Adams Rubble: It's the water :)
    Dakini Rhode: I don't know if it's related, but I've found myself getting very involved in my play
    stevenaia Michinaga: must have been very good conversation
    Dakini Rhode: since not being on Sl much lately, it seems to have loosened its hold on me
    Dakini Rhode: or i on the play
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Isadora
    Adams Rubble: How does that feel? Do you miss it or is it good to give it a break?

    As we speak of appearances, Isadora arrives in nimbus form

    Dakini Rhode: hi Isadora
    Adams Rubble: Hello Isadora
    Eos Amaterasu: i Isadora (still rezzing)
    Dakini Rhode: it just feels like that's what's happening now, and RL is capturing more of my attention
    Eos Amaterasu: *hi
    Dakini Rhode: and a bit of wondering about the change
    Adams Rubble: /m is late for bed (giggles)
    Adams Rubble: .me nods to Dakini
    Dakini Rhode smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: you seem to be a bit cloudy, Isadora
    Eos Amaterasu: burning bush
    Adams Rubble: sometimes editing appearances helps unless it is a weak connection
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you accessing SL from a remote device (phone)?
    Adams Rubble: then you might crash
    Eos Amaterasu: it's rocky tonight, several crashes
    Adams Rubble: I think I better go. Thank you all :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Adams
    Isadora Davidov: Good night
    Eos Amaterasu: Thank you lovely Adams!
    Dakini Rhode: nite Adams, be well :-)
    Adams Rubble: good night :)
    Adams Rubble: all an illusio0n Eos (hehe)
    Dakini Rhode winks
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it would be better if we were all clouds
    Eos Amaterasu: Casper the friendly ghost
    Dakini Rhode: aw we would have missed Adams' lovely outfit
    Isadora Davidov: Very peaceful
    stevenaia Michinaga: so true
    Eos Amaterasu: you must be part of that famous internet cloud
    Isadora Davidov: Cloud computing...what is it?
    stevenaia Michinaga: that is whee your information is always accessible to your computer over the airways
    stevenaia Michinaga: on multiple computers
    stevenaia Michinaga: or pones
    stevenaia Michinaga: phones
    Isadora Davidov: Oh thank you...there was something like it in London at the British Library
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you a librarian?
    Eos Amaterasu: and you don't need to think about computers as "boxes" or being somewhere
    Eos Amaterasu: computing is like manna from heaven :-)
    Isadora Davidov: I know I came so late...have I turned the discussion to a useful topic?
    Eos Amaterasu: I think there's been a general thread about appearances and avatars and looking "hot" and how real is that and playing with that
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, last night
    Isadora Davidov: Oh...thank goodness right now I'm just the Cloud of Unknowing
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Doug mentioned it
    stevenaia Michinaga: if we were all clouds, I wonder it that would ever come up
    Eos Amaterasu: it probably would... being seems to be self-expressive
    Isadora Davidov: Clouds do take entrancing forms you can get lost in...
    Isadora Davidov: But can someone tell me why my av didn't show up...but a cloud of light did instead?
    stevenaia Michinaga: have you tried to edit your appearance, sometimes even putting on socks will make you appear
    Isadora Davidov: OK!!!
    stevenaia Michinaga: SL is not a perfect place
    Isadora Davidov: No...cloud is good...I just wondered..I can't manage to do many things yet
    Eos Amaterasu: A cloud wearing sneakers would be fun :-)
    Dakini Rhode: Isadora it just means that for some reason your avatar body has not rezzed.
    stevenaia Michinaga: remember we discussed rezzing last night
    Eos Amaterasu: it's stuck in the bardo
    Isadora Davidov: right...oh my now I've done something weird and many searchlights are playing...yes...a bardo...excellent
    Eos Amaterasu: Time for me to "crash" in the sleep sense...
    stevenaia Michinaga: night eos
    Isadora Davidov: Be well and rest well.
    Dakini Rhode: nite Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night all, enjoy the summer evening!
    Dakini Rhode: Alas, time for me to sleep also
    stevenaia Michinaga: pleasent dreams Dakini
    Dakini Rhode: past actually
    Dakini Rhode: enjoy the evening :-)

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