2009.08.14 19:00 - Avatar appearance as a display of being

The Guardian for this meeting was Dakini Rhode. The comments are by Dakini Rhode.

Eos, Lingerer, Adams and Doug continue the previous nights' discussion of avatar appearance

Eos Amaterasu: We're actually getting some real summer weather, with sunshine
Eos Amaterasu: beautiful, blue, green, warm, bird sounds
Eos Amaterasu: (just like here :-)
Lingerer Xaris: are you enjoying your walks?
Lingerer Xaris: I wish Philadelphia were like this pavalion
Lingerer Xaris: pavilion
Eos Amaterasu: PaBilion
Lingerer Xaris: lol
Lingerer Xaris: clever
Lingerer Xaris: We had like 9 people in here last night
Eos Amaterasu: that's a good question, how to find PaB group/shared spaces in RL
Lingerer Xaris: LOL

:-)

Eos Amaterasu: what was the theme, if any?
Lingerer Xaris: We talked about the attractiveness of our avatars
Lingerer Xaris: and how it factors into the idea of sharing being
Lingerer Xaris: Someone said that there had never been a discussion as such as PaB
Eos Amaterasu: without appearance there's no handles
Lingerer Xaris: I changed Lingerer to look a bit more like me b/c I thought i might help me with my experience of authenticity here
Lingerer Xaris: but, of course, this avatar is still way hotter than me.
Lingerer Xaris: grins
Eos Amaterasu: Avatar: "don't you wish your RL was hot like me?"
Lingerer Xaris: hahahah
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Doug
Lingerer Xaris: Doug!
Lingerer Xaris: I was just telling Eos about our discussion yesterday
doug Sosa: hi, i moved so i could see you both, fountain was in the way.
doug Sosa: good.

being as intrinsic hottiness?

Eos Amaterasu: How hot are we intrinsically?
Lingerer Xaris: I took your cue, and decided to make my avatar look more like me.
Lingerer Xaris: Although, as I was just saying, this avatar is still way hotter
Lingerer Xaris: but the general idea is there
doug Sosa: still wow.
--BELL--
Lingerer Xaris: I wonder if all that catharsis last night will lead to even greater depth today
doug Sosa: i hope so. an exploration of mind, how thoughts come to be, where they go, is easier if one can actually talk bout them as they are.
Lingerer Xaris: i agree!
doug Sosa: how did you choose how you are now? At every point of choice more as you are?
Lingerer Xaris: Clarify, please?
doug Sosa: well, you changed appearance. as you did what was going through your mind?
Lingerer Xaris: aha
Lingerer Xaris: I was thinking at first how interesting it was that I chose to be a dark haired, tan skinned woman first
Lingerer Xaris: then, i was thinking about how odd it is to make my avatar resemble me at all
Lingerer Xaris: and wondered if my ego was so strong that i needed to appear like myself even in other realities
Lingerer Xaris: then, i guess i decided that if I could feel like 'myself' more when sitting in this circle, maybe i would feel less self-conscious
Eos Amaterasu: "What was your original face before your avatar was worn?" -:)

;-D

Lingerer Xaris: and actually, it has worked
doug Sosa: that might be a hard quesion.
Lingerer Xaris: did i misunderstand your question?
doug Sosa: easier might be - how did you chose the hands?
Lingerer Xaris: well, i wanted an interesting outfit. when i realized i could wrap my body in a picture, i was thrilled
Eos Amaterasu: A lot , or most of our experiences seem serendipitous, accidental, ongong binding together with self/world fallout
Lingerer Xaris: it wrapped my hand and feet by default
doug Sosa: i was going to ask about the colors on the vest..
Lingerer Xaris: look at this goregous lady!
Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
Lingerer Xaris: Hi Abigail
doug Sosa: hi!
Adams Rubble: Hello Lingerer. Nice to meet you :)
Lingerer Xaris: Eos, were you asking me what my choice of outfit represented?
Fox Monacular: Hi everyone
Lingerer Xaris: Hi Fox
Adams Rubble: Hello Fox
doug Sosa: oops, gone?
Adams Rubble: Eos seems to have craSHED
Lingerer Xaris: See, Fox has definitely appeared in a different form from RL. Or so I am assuming. LOL
Lingerer Xaris: Hi Fox, we were discussing appearance
Fox Monacular: it's all just an illusion anyway
doug Sosa: and hottiness.
Lingerer Xaris: welcome back Eos
Eos Amaterasu: discorporated
Adams Rubble: wb Eos
Lingerer Xaris: Doug, did I answer your question? Or did I totally misunderstand it?
Adams Rubble: Hello Dakini :)
doug Sosa: For me, when i arrive in the circle, i am most aware of who si where and how they look, and as i try to take that in i realize that the image i get say of abigail triggers off things in me that abigail was not intendeding, and i am missing what abigail did intend. perhaps i am realizing that i pay more attention
Dakini Rhode: hi Adams & all :-)
Lingerer Xaris: hi Dakini
doug Sosa: to apprearances than i thought.
doug Sosa: hi.
Lingerer Xaris: aha. i understand
Eos Amaterasu: It's hard to connect except thru appearances
--BELL--
Lingerer Xaris: Yet, I find our silences very bonding
Eos Amaterasu: <bell>
Fox Monacular: Sorry everyone. I gotta go.......
doug Sosa: right but when the apperance is misleading, what kind of connection is possible? I find the conection i would make based on appearance is not quite what i would make based on the possible reality. neither is "better", just really different - and that is an assumption hard to test here.
Eos Amaterasu: bye fox
Lingerer Xaris: ha, fox, that jump up was awesome
Fox Monacular: :)
Adams Rubble: bye Fix :)
Eos Amaterasu: reality is kind of peer to peer avatar to avatar here
Adams Rubble: shows appearances is not what we think Doug
Eos Amaterasu: and genuineness can present there also
Eos Amaterasu: here
Eos Amaterasu: it's interesting that in vajrayana buddhism, for example, you often visualize yourself as 16 years old
Eos Amaterasu: male or female

  SL appearance as a signal of genuine feelings or desires...

doug Sosa: yet i think the "apperance" here is a signal of genuine feelings or desires. Not always but often. </bell>
Adams Rubble: do you?
doug Sosa: question is to who?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, I have done such practices
doug Sosa: ah.
Lingerer Xaris: Why Eos? (regarding the visualization)
Adams Rubble: rhetorical question to you Doug :)
Eos Amaterasu: well, I think there are idealized forms
doug Sosa: ok, do I what?
Eos Amaterasu: and it's an interesting question to ask how "old" one is anyway

     Which appearance is more "real"?

Dakini Rhode: it could be said that we are attached to a false appearance of ourselves (in first life)
Adams Rubble: It can be helpful to approach spiritual matters with a new mind
Eos Amaterasu: fresh
Lingerer Xaris: Ha, I like what you just said, Dakini
Adams Rubble: yes Dakini
Dakini Rhode: and that visualizing ourselves otherwise (or playing at it in SL) can be helpful in loosening that attachment
Eos Amaterasu: a "dakini" is such a visualization
Adams Rubble: helps us see ourselvs from a different angle
Eos Amaterasu: and that we're always visualizing ourselves anyway
doug Sosa: yes but. why do we fairly usually chose to look thinner and more attractive here rather than fatter and more delapidated than we are?
Lingerer Xaris: good point. i tried the love-handle version of this avatar and was not having it
Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's like music - you want to make good music
Adams Rubble: The more I think about it I don;t think that matters Doug
Eos Amaterasu: playful forms
doug Sosa: Thanks. so it is not just a question of increased detachment.
Lingerer Xaris: well, i think it is interesting to note that we want to present ourselves in the best light
Adams Rubble: We behgin to look past the appearance
doug Sosa: adams, what doesn't matter?
Eos Amaterasu: or appearance is a way of shining
Dakini Rhode: Adams I think that is is something SL has reinforced for me
Adams Rubble: That we are so often in an idealized form
Dakini Rhode: looking beyond appearances
Lingerer Xaris: i like that, Eos, a way of shining
Adams Rubble: I am the same person in my many manifestations
Adams Rubble: yet I can be typed in any
doug Sosa: Well, it matters to me and that we talk about it so little gets in the way for me. i find the apperances intrguing and attracting and lead me to always question, who is really there and why are they making these choices?
Dakini Rhode: Do we get closer to what it is that doesn't change despite the various appearances?
Adams Rubble: Have fun Doug :)
Eos Amaterasu: that's an interesting part : i and many manifestations
Adams Rubble: or because Dakini?
doug Sosa: Given that almst all chose to be really attractive, to the point of , well, if such folks were in RL I'd make a major effort to get closer to them..
Dakini Rhode: interesting, because instead of despite?
Dakini Rhode: haha doug i look the same in R
doug Sosa: so if it is just about detachment and objectivity and learning to discount apperance, why is it so impoant that people chose in the direction they do?
Dakini Rhode: L
Eos Amaterasu: is it about detachment and discounting appearance?
Adams Rubble: who said it is important?
doug Sosa: I wonder what you mean by "just the same" Here you are only about three inches tall :)
Adams Rubble guffaws
Eos Amaterasu: inch and a half :-)
Lingerer Xaris: lol, doug
Dakini Rhode: haha much taller on my console :-)
Eos Amaterasu: We're six inches apart, and thousands of miles away
doug Sosa: Adams, i devine that it is important. if it were not, then appreances chosen would be more - what's a good word? alcking aesthetic.
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: It might change but right now it allows us to look past appearances at the real person
doug Sosa: That to me is really an illusion. I am sure i could see the real you more if we were sitting like this in RL.
Adams Rubble: We can then carry that into RL if we allow it to shatter our assumptions of beauty
doug Sosa: I think here we reinforce our assumptions of beauty. lets all try coming ugle, would it not be a different experience?
Adams Rubble: Many do
doug Sosa: and I do have to go and cook dinner for some screaming people.
Lingerer Xaris: Well, I've only seen one ugly avatar at Play and Being so far
doug Sosa: so bye.. for now... and untill..
Lingerer Xaris: I'll grow a horn on my head
Lingerer Xaris: good conversation Doug
Lingerer Xaris: later
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, Doug!
Dakini Rhode: night Doug
Dakini Rhode: how's this?
Adams Rubble: Dakini?
Dakini Rhode: i guess the ugliness of my av's features won't translate to the chat log too well
Adams Rubble: we can take a picture :)
Dakini Rhode: there ya go :-)
Adams Rubble giggles
Adams Rubble: done
Dakini Rhode: somehow i anticipate this will be on the front page and for some reason that bothers me :-)
Lingerer Xaris: did i miss something?
Lingerer Xaris: you look exactly the same
Dakini Rhode: :-)
Adams Rubble: I emailed ot to you Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: ty Adams :-)
Dakini Rhode: .
Dakini Rhode: excuse a moment (phone)
Adams Rubble: Eos, why the age 16. Why not older or younger?
Eos Amaterasu: I think there are pretty universal patterns about that, it's a kind of peak age
Eos Amaterasu: peak of beauty just beginning to really flower, and to mature
Eos Amaterasu: dakinis can also have fangs :-)
Eos Amaterasu: and sharp instruments
Eos Amaterasu: (for cutting ego)
Adams Rubble: :)
Eos Amaterasu: and liquor/amirita/potions for intoxicating appearance/being
Adams Rubble: I need some Dakinis then :)
Eos Amaterasu: you _are_ one :-)
Adams Rubble: hehe, even more so
Eos Amaterasu: playing with appearance, playing with/as being
Eos Amaterasu: "though he thinks he's in a play, he is anyway" (Penny Lane)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: many plays
Lingerer Xaris: nice reference
--BELL--
Lingerer Xaris: I am going to take off. It was nice to meet you both. Nice to see you again, Eos.
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you too Lingerer bye
Adams Rubble: whoops
Eos Amaterasu: Bye, Lingere, good to see you again
Eos Amaterasu: Nice hat, Adams :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: thank you
Adams Rubble: trying to catch some summer :)
Eos Amaterasu: Indeed, and your hat sends out some summer
Adams Rubble wanders if there is a danger we could get attached to playing
Eos Amaterasu: what would that danger be?
Adams Rubble: that we are having so much fun we forget to listen
Adams Rubble: or look
Eos Amaterasu: ah, yes
Eos Amaterasu: to care for others...
Adams Rubble: ah...yes
Eos Amaterasu: both serious and real, solid, and playful and illusory....
Eos Amaterasu: that's also said to be a dakini quality
Adams Rubble: The playing is good for opening to others for me
Eos Amaterasu: can play tricks, to break up solidity of clinging/form
Eos Amaterasu: but you can also try to run away, into form
Adams Rubble: I guess we need to remember to watch ourselves play
Eos Amaterasu: there's a fear that if we play, let go, it might get out of hand, crazy
Dakini Rhode: we can play at many things, even at some of the things you mentioned Adams, like caring for others and seeing truly
Eos Amaterasu: even with that, with caring, we likely can be playful
Eos Amaterasu: the caring can become a trip
Adams Rubble: Caring has certainly come out of play for me
Dakini Rhode: we can be serious and caring and playful in the same situation
Adams Rubble: You do that well Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: oh my
Adams Rubble: so I believe you :)
Eos Amaterasu: we can share the in-between spaces
Dakini Rhode: an astrologer once told me i was an old child but I would grow younger as i aged - so when I find myself silly i remember that and enjoy it
Eos Amaterasu: where its not this or that
Adams Rubble: :)
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: so how old are you, "really"?
Adams Rubble: I have been thinking about your point Eos that we fear play getting out of hand
Adams Rubble: I have certainly done that
Adams Rubble: and I am wondering why?
Adams Rubble: Hello Steve :)
Eos Amaterasu: what were you experiencing then?
Dakini Rhode: hi Steve
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, thought I;d drop in :)
Adams Rubble: always good to9 see you Steve
Adams Rubble: can you believe I am still up :)
stevenaia Michinaga: you are up late Adams
Dakini Rhode: good to see your av
Dakini Rhode: i can hardly believe we're both still up Adams :-)
Adams Rubble: Eos, interesting question. I will have to think about it. Maybe it is a clue for me
Adams Rubble: hehe Dakini
Adams Rubble: It's the water :)
Dakini Rhode: I don't know if it's related, but I've found myself getting very involved in my play
stevenaia Michinaga: must have been very good conversation
Dakini Rhode: since not being on Sl much lately, it seems to have loosened its hold on me
Dakini Rhode: or i on the play
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Isadora
Adams Rubble: How does that feel? Do you miss it or is it good to give it a break?

As we speak of appearances, Isadora arrives in nimbus form

Dakini Rhode: hi Isadora
Adams Rubble: Hello Isadora
Eos Amaterasu: i Isadora (still rezzing)
Dakini Rhode: it just feels like that's what's happening now, and RL is capturing more of my attention
Eos Amaterasu: *hi
Dakini Rhode: and a bit of wondering about the change
Adams Rubble: /m is late for bed (giggles)
Adams Rubble: .me nods to Dakini
Dakini Rhode smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: you seem to be a bit cloudy, Isadora
Eos Amaterasu: burning bush
Adams Rubble: sometimes editing appearances helps unless it is a weak connection
stevenaia Michinaga: are you accessing SL from a remote device (phone)?
Adams Rubble: then you might crash
Eos Amaterasu: it's rocky tonight, several crashes
Adams Rubble: I think I better go. Thank you all :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Adams
Isadora Davidov: Good night
Eos Amaterasu: Thank you lovely Adams!
Dakini Rhode: nite Adams, be well :-)
Adams Rubble: good night :)
Adams Rubble: all an illusio0n Eos (hehe)
Dakini Rhode winks
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it would be better if we were all clouds
Eos Amaterasu: Casper the friendly ghost
Dakini Rhode: aw we would have missed Adams' lovely outfit
Isadora Davidov: Very peaceful
stevenaia Michinaga: so true
Eos Amaterasu: you must be part of that famous internet cloud
Isadora Davidov: Cloud computing...what is it?
stevenaia Michinaga: that is whee your information is always accessible to your computer over the airways
stevenaia Michinaga: on multiple computers
stevenaia Michinaga: or pones
stevenaia Michinaga: phones
Isadora Davidov: Oh thank you...there was something like it in London at the British Library
stevenaia Michinaga: are you a librarian?
Eos Amaterasu: and you don't need to think about computers as "boxes" or being somewhere
Eos Amaterasu: computing is like manna from heaven :-)
Isadora Davidov: I know I came so late...have I turned the discussion to a useful topic?
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu: I think there's been a general thread about appearances and avatars and looking "hot" and how real is that and playing with that
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, last night
Isadora Davidov: Oh...thank goodness right now I'm just the Cloud of Unknowing
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: Doug mentioned it
stevenaia Michinaga: if we were all clouds, I wonder it that would ever come up
Eos Amaterasu: it probably would... being seems to be self-expressive
Isadora Davidov: Clouds do take entrancing forms you can get lost in...
Isadora Davidov: But can someone tell me why my av didn't show up...but a cloud of light did instead?
stevenaia Michinaga: have you tried to edit your appearance, sometimes even putting on socks will make you appear
Isadora Davidov: OK!!!
stevenaia Michinaga: SL is not a perfect place
Isadora Davidov: No...cloud is good...I just wondered..I can't manage to do many things yet
Eos Amaterasu: A cloud wearing sneakers would be fun :-)
Dakini Rhode: Isadora it just means that for some reason your avatar body has not rezzed.
stevenaia Michinaga: remember we discussed rezzing last night
Eos Amaterasu: it's stuck in the bardo
Isadora Davidov: right...oh my now I've done something weird and many searchlights are playing...yes...a bardo...excellent
Eos Amaterasu: Time for me to "crash" in the sleep sense...
stevenaia Michinaga: night eos
Isadora Davidov: Be well and rest well.
Dakini Rhode: nite Eos
Eos Amaterasu: 'night all, enjoy the summer evening!
Dakini Rhode: Alas, time for me to sleep also
stevenaia Michinaga: pleasent dreams Dakini
Dakini Rhode: past actually
Dakini Rhode: enjoy the evening :-)