2009.08.15 19:00 - Title goes here

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Corvuscorva Nightfire. The comments are by Corvuscorva Nightfire.


    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Doug.
    doug Sosa: hi cor
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: who's night is it to take the log?
    doug Sosa: no idea.
    doug Sosa: my schedule is too hectic to allow me to chose a time to be responsible.
    doug Sosa: feel bad about it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't either.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so..you're going to the retreat?
    doug Sosa: yes. hope the fire isn't hurting the site.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhh..
    doug Sosa: are you cming?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't know.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: might
    doug Sosa: look forward to being with you.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well I look forward to going if it works out. It'll be a learning experience for me, I think.
    Fox Monacular: hi Doug, Hi Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Fox!! nice to see you again.
    doug Sosa: hi fox on fire.
    Fox Monacular: it's really hot in Montreal today
    doug Sosa: since we report on our thoughts, i can not but feel the heat.
    doug Sosa: just bits but.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: whatcha thinkin?
    doug Sosa: spent the day weeding, digging, readingan obscure philopsopher, and the use mad eof him by another, and then started a biog of mussolini.
    doug Sosa: cor, wheel chair, or retro ?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hey, Stevie...nice chair.
    doug Sosa: sorry, meant steve..
    Fox Monacular: hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks a gift
    stevenaia Michinaga: fox, nice fire
    Fox Monacular: thanks:)
    Fox Monacular: now it looks more like real zendo - some people sit in lotus position while others, well, on a chair
    doug Sosa: at least we leave our laptops in rl :)
    doug Sosa: Imagine in sl if when you want to go back t rl you'd have to take your laptop, log in to smesoftware, and click yourself home!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire reaches over to hug Ade..hey you!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ *purrrrr*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire wraps one arm around your shoulder.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.
    Adelene Dawner snuggles close ^.^
    doug Sosa: purr reminds me of my loved ones and fire reminds me i have to go cook the shrimp.... oops.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh.
    doug Sosa: so bye for now.
    Adelene Dawner: heh. Cya, Doug.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye for now, Doug.
    Fox Monacular: sorry router reloaded
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye doug
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Fox Monacular: were you dancing?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: dancing? no.
    Fox Monacular: ok, sorry, itjust looks like you are all sitting on the same cushion
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins..oh...I see!
    Adelene Dawner: hehe :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we are..we're just sitting here, though, not dancing.
    Fox Monacular: my avatar's on fire and ... my noisy neighbors are making bbq so it smells like burnt meat... coincidence? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: makes me hungry
    Fox Monacular: I'm sure I could fry something up for you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
    stevenaia Michinaga: hoping no vegitarians in the room
    Fox Monacular: that's the problem... one vegetarian right here
    Adelene Dawner: Corvi, too.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Fox Monacular: so you feel my pain
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmm, lost apitight for burnt flesh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah.
    Fox Monacular: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Eos.
    Fox Monacular: Hi Eos
    Adelene Dawner: hi :)
    Adelene Dawner: Pila! ^.^
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ade, Fox, Corvu, Steveaia, Pila
    Fox Monacular: Hi Pila
    Fox Monacular: Eos, I have the same t shirt
    Pila Mulligan: Hi Ade, Fox, Corvu, Steve and Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: What happened, Stevenaia?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hey Pila! nice to see you.
    Pila Mulligan: hi Coirvi
    Pila Mulligan: Corvi*
    stevenaia Michinaga: sympaty for wife's broken ankle
    Pila Mulligan: and Moon if he is nearby :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: a Burning Fox
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins..he's not..he's at his hotel.
    Pila Mulligan: I hope you all have a wonoderful time
    Adelene Dawner: So far it's been great :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, agreement.
    Pila Mulligan: Corvi, Ade and Moon are visting in the US, for those unaware
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Eos Amaterasu: SL conf?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: a little mini one?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Ade and I live a couple of miles apart.
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol, PaB conference
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so, Moon is visiting us.
    Fox Monacular: lucky you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Pila Mulligan: Steve I hope your wife's ankle is healing ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: me to
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems so
    Pila Mulligan: is she in a wheel chair?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no soft cast and crutches
    Pila Mulligan: ahh
    Eos Amaterasu: Seems in SL mirror neurons visualize themselves in visible forms :
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
    Eos Amaterasu sees Fox as an everliving fire
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: the avatar is actually the 'nightmare'
    Eos Amaterasu: and you've become it?
    Fox Monacular: for now.. in part:)
    Fox Monacular: the 'mare' part at least
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: do sou suppose the fire is a metaphor for anxiety?
    Pila Mulligan: thanks Squee
    Adelene Dawner: ([19:36] Squee: Insanity: a perfectly rational response to an insane world.)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Fox Monacular: I think fire can be a metaphor for very many things...
    Fox Monacular: but for me personally anxiety feels more like ice...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: what do oyu think the fire represents , Fox? ... just plain fire?
    Fox Monacular: hmmm... maybe deep freudian desires... that burn through your dreams in form of nightmares?
    Fox Monacular: or just fire
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Id fire
    Fox Monacular: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: or hot feet
    Pila Mulligan: oops, is it ocntagious
    Fox Monacular: wow!
    Fox Monacular: ok ok, I meant to do it too...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire reads octoagious..and tries to figure out what that would be.
    stevenaia Michinaga: doesn;t seem to help
    Pila Mulligan: burning bush smoosh -- that's a burining pond
    Fox Monacular: ouch, and nothing happened
    Fox Monacular: burning feet is an opposite of cold feet?
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Eos Amaterasu: I suppose we're slow room temperature fire?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh
    Eos Amaterasu: In the 9 secs you can see the fire a bit more
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Pila Mulligan: threedee
    Threedee Shepherd: hi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Three!
    Fox Monacular: hi Threedee
    Threedee Shepherd: Hello all
    Eos Amaterasu: roar :-)
    Pila Mulligan: sounded like a purring mediatation
    Eos Amaterasu: the world is an ever-living roar
    Adelene Dawner: and/or an ever-living purr :)
    Fox Monacular: and fire
    Eos Amaterasu: and ice
    Pila Mulligan: anyone have any ideas for discussion?
    Threedee Shepherd: you folks have been here 48 minutes and still not topic?????
    stevenaia Michinaga: tired from doing the work of two.. jsut listening
    Pila Mulligan: we were fascinated with the fires
    Fox Monacular: I'm overheated
    Adelene Dawner wonders if we'd be having the same kind of discussion about fire if it were February rather than August :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..I'm sorry to disappoint, three.
    Threedee Shepherd: depends on the hemisphere
    stevenaia Michinaga: depends on what;s burning
    Threedee Shepherd: OK, facetious, but nonetheless a topic: Why?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire swats at you.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's way too broad.
    Adelene Dawner: Why not?
    Pila Mulligan: comment on why -- curiosity
    Eos Amaterasu: wu why?
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    Eos Amaterasu: why-ners
    Threedee Shepherd: No it isn't. We can start with this: In the broad context of PaB, is "WHY" a valid question?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire growls..RRRRRRRR
    Adelene Dawner giggles at Corvi.
    Eos Amaterasu: it is: it presumes you would recognize a satisfactory answer
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles and stops hitting Three with the cushion.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: why what, though?
    Threedee Shepherd: No it assumes directed causality
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: causality of what to what?
    Pila Mulligan: oh, as in why is ____
    Pila Mulligan: = a reason
    Threedee Shepherd: or why did _____
    Eos Amaterasu: that sounds like a straw to grasp at
    Fox Monacular: why can also be a state?
    Threedee Shepherd: or suck through
    Fox Monacular: as in why did_?
    Eos Amaterasu: it sucks you into a black hole
    Pila Mulligan: why isn't the real question then can we assume causality
    Pila Mulligan: or a reason for ____
    Eos Amaterasu: try this: what if nothing had ever existed?
    Threedee Shepherd: correct, pila, or perhaps can we assume non-random causality
    Pila Mulligan: there may be places where nothing has ever existed Eos
    Pila Mulligan: referred to as a void perhaps
    Eos Amaterasu: but the question is what if none of those places had existed either
    Threedee Shepherd: At each moment there can be many (infinite?) next moments that would "make sense" from which one occurs at random, perhaps?
    Fox Monacular: so you can ask why void?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire growls quietly to Three.."you seem to have introduced a credible Koan..."
    Pila Mulligan: Eos may be setting a condition in non-existence to illusrate a non-causality idea
    Threedee Shepherd: Well I did have an ice crean Koan earlier this evening
    Pila Mulligan: so that when existence begins causality may also begin
    Eos Amaterasu: time axis not apropos here peh=rhaps
    Corvuscorva Nightfire whaps three with the pillow.
    Threedee Shepherd: What we call causality coul be random skips along probabilities
    Eos Amaterasu: difference between ex/no-ex as big now as it was /is at big bang time
    Pila Mulligan: squishes the koan
    Pila Mulligan: causation and reason are simply morsels that pacify the mind's desire for finding significance
    Threedee Shepherd: It is--of course--we cannot KNOW that the past existed
    Eos Amaterasu: that's the question about answers: what satisfies you as an answer? (re Pila)
    Threedee Shepherd: Its predicitve value
    Fox Monacular: or why do you need an aswer
    Threedee Shepherd: So I avoid being eaten
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: survival.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
    Threedee Shepherd: ^.^
    Pila Mulligan: but you are at the top pf the food chian
    Eos Amaterasu looks thru the savannah grasses
    Threedee Shepherd: Tell that to a hungry lion of polar or grizzly bear
    Fox Monacular: Sozan, a Chinese Zen master, was asked by a student: "What is the most valuable thing in the world?" The master replied: "The head of a dead cat." "Why is the head of a dead cat the most valuable thing in the world?" inquired the student. Sozan replied: "Because no one can name its price."
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Fox Monacular: tell that to a hungry lion
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so we have answered why with uncertainty
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
    Threedee Shepherd: The answer to Why--I propose--is to paraphrase Descartes and thus say, "I am, therefore i think"
    Eos Amaterasu: so why the universe happens... so it can predict itself?
    Pila Mulligan: agree :)
    Adelene Dawner: Alternate viewpoint:
    Adelene Dawner: There's a theory that every possible universe exists - meaning not just the one where you chose to have soup instead of a sandwich for lunch this afternoon, but also universes in with more than three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. It's theorized that in universes with more than one dimension of time, life would not be able to exist, because there is no cause-effect predictability.
    Eos Amaterasu: dizzying :-)
    Threedee Shepherd: hhhhmmmmm, how are you defining "life" when you say that?
    stevenaia Michinaga: night, my foot i well done
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao Stevenaia
    Threedee Shepherd: night steve
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
    Adelene Dawner: I think that theory applies to all evolving replicators, but I don't understand it well enough to be sure.
    Threedee Shepherd: what if time runs backwards
    Pila Mulligan: I can imagine there could be several dimensions of time, and we just do not yet see them
    Adelene Dawner: Backwards relative to what?
    Threedee Shepherd: if we accept time exists, perhaps it runs at different rates in different universed
    Threedee Shepherd: *universes
    Adelene Dawner: Faster or slower relative to what?
    Eos Amaterasu: Probably runs at different rates here
    Corvuscorva Nightfire sighs and waves....time for bed for me.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night all
    Eos Amaterasu waves
    Adelene Dawner: Night, Corvi-Luv. Sleep well.
    Fox Monacular: good night Corvi:)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Corvi
    Threedee Shepherd: gee, i was THAT soporific--I should bottle it ;>
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..if it worked that well..I'd make you bottle it..but it was interesting, nonetheless.
    Fox Monacular: yes, but despite diferent rates, we are all in relative agreement about time... like early/late/soon/tomorrow...
    Threedee Shepherd: soon depends on whether you are contemplating death or contemplating sex ;>
    Fox Monacular: :), yes, that's true, also in childhood the summer is sooo long, but in adulthood you don't notice when it's over
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I recall that, sort of
    Eos Amaterasu: the robins nesting in our porch have goine through two broods in the last severl months
    Eos Amaterasu: a lot of bird development happens in short time
    Pila Mulligan slips away -- bye Fox, Eos, Ade and Threedee -- nice to sit with you
    Fox Monacular: so even on our planet time goes at different rate inter and intra species?
    Fox Monacular: bye Pila,
    Eos Amaterasu: <^_^>
    Threedee Shepherd: bye Pila
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, having driven off most of the participants, I--too--will say goodnight
    Adelene Dawner: I guess I'll head out, too :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Perhaps time to leave as well, ciao everybody
    Fox Monacular: me too then, good night everyone
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