2009.08.21 13:00 - PaB - retreat and the books ...

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bertram Jacobus. The comments are by Bertram Jacobus.

    a new guardian and his tasks :

    Bertram Jacobus: hey tyler ! ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: huhu wol ! ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hiya
    Wol Euler: do you know how to control the seating and fountain?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. ty
    Wol Euler: good
    Bertram Jacobus: but the bell did not give a sound - (?)
    Wol Euler: it doesn't for the :00 first time
    Wol Euler: that was felt to be disturbing, just as the meeting got started.
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. i see. did not know that
    Bertram Jacobus: reasonable ... :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: other than that, the guardian role is pretty simple. Make sure that newcomers get an introduction
    Bertram Jacobus: hello wester ... :-)
    Wol Euler: and ensure that they agree to let us ost their names and comments on the website.
    Bertram Jacobus: sure ;o)
    Wol Euler: this is absolutely necessary, not asking is a violation of the TOS
    Wol Euler: hello wester
    Bertram Jacobus: i know, i read that
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Wester Kiranov: i was wondering if bert needed any assistance, but i see it has been provided for :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: please stay and help us entertain the troops though :)
    Wester Kiranov: what troops? the birds?
    Bertram Jacobus: ehm - it´s really nice : many people offer help - would be nice when the whole life would be like that (!) ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hy sophia s :-)
    Wol Euler: perhaps it will, once enough people have have been here and experienced this.
    Wol Euler: hello sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone! :P)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: rezzing
    Bertram Jacobus: again and again i have this special doubt : when it didn´t happen until now - how should it ever happen ?
    Wester Kiranov: nah - we just need all the guardians we can get so we treat them nicely ;-)
    Wester Kiranov: hi sophia
    Bertram Jacobus: i see wester :o)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how is everyone today?? I feel like I havent been here in forever
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: pretty well, thank you. and yourself?

    the coming PaB retreat. and how to accept various things :

    SophiaSharon Larnia: good? Am jealous of the ones going on retreat
    Bertram Jacobus: hello johny ... :-)
    Wester Kiranov: i'm ok, thank you
    Wol Euler: oh yes, definitely.
    Wol Euler: I'd love to be there.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Johny
    Wester Kiranov: oooh, i'm pretty jealous too :P
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the schedules sounds perfect
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m quite okay, too. ty - :-)
    Wol Euler: the day of silence sounds a wonderful idea.
    Bertram Jacobus: but how can it be that you feel like you "haven´t been here in forever" sophia s ? (!) ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i was actually thinking I do have a day of silence here and there, a day i stay in and don't go anywhere
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm, was here for my session last saturday, and maybe one after that not sure
    Bertram Jacobus: ah i see ... that´s a quite long time for you ? for not having been here ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: why was that ? :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, you could say life events, I was not been in a contemplative frame of mind, which pointed me to several realizations.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (bad grammer sorry)
    Bertram Jacobus: hmm - point to realization - what does that mean ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to learn to accept these things that happen, to take them more lightly
    Bertram Jacobus: ah
    Johny Weissberg: yes..thats hard
    Bertram Jacobus: i experience severe heavy moods these days, too (!) ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was also upset by how much these things shook me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: much to learn from here
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. for me it´s not new. i know that from many buddhistic teachings and experiences. but at the moment it´s heavy again. but i take it on the one hand as normal. it is said, one sees it more clear only when one tries to develop oneself.
    Bertram Jacobus: for example, i have a neighbour, who attacks me massivly ... (i moved no long time ago) - very heavy ...
    Wol Euler frowns. I hope you mean verbally only.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that is difficult
    Wol Euler: though that is bad enough
    Johny Weissberg: why is that, may i ask
    Bertram Jacobus: verbally, yes. but for instance, i had a swastika scratched on my letterbox now and she asked me very agressive what that should mean
    Wol Euler: tell her it means that the neighbourhood kids are pieces of shit.
    Wol Euler: pardon my french
    SophiaSharon Larnia grins
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Johny Weissberg: lol
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, that may be my karma. or a bad spell. whatever. i have to stand, to handle and may learn with all that johny
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Wol)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, I wondered myself, if my karma chips had all been cashed in at once
    SophiaSharon Larnia: which brought up the question of karma
    Bertram Jacobus: it is said, that, when one works intense with spiritual methods, it can happen, that the developing accelerates - with all the accompaniments
    Bertram Jacobus: one had to go through all that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think i have heard of the same, Westar, if we are thinking of the same thing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oops Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: okay :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I considered it as well
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. good to know, also which methods one can use and to have friends for example for all that to share, to get help if neccessairy and so on ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ultimately, there is appearance, and then there is the backdrop
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i forget

    coming and going, smilies and weather :o) 

    Fox Monacular: Hi everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: [hi fox (silence)] ...
    Wol Euler: hello fox
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Fox
    Johny Weissberg: hi fox
    Wester Kiranov: hi fox
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
    Bertram Jacobus: hy isa ... :-)
    Wester Kiranov: I'm finding it difficult to concentrate tonight, so I think I will leave now. Sorry. Bye!
    Wol Euler: hello isa, goodngiht wester
    Bertram Jacobus: bye wester - have a good time !
    Wol Euler: mooch well :)
    Johny Weissberg: bye wester, hi isa
    Isadora Davidov: Hello everyone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Isadora, bye Westar
    Isadora Davidov: I am sorry to come late..
    Bertram Jacobus: no need to sorry for that i guess ! (?) :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: in german there is a word : better late then never :-)
    Isadora Davidov: We have the same in English
    Bertram Jacobus: nice. how is it expresed in english "exactly" ? (like to learn) ...
    Isadora Davidov: Exactly the same! Better later....
    Isadora Davidov: no, "late"
    Bertram Jacobus: lol. ah okay :-))
    Fox Monacular: sometimes for me it's better later than now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Isadora Davidov: Excuse me...how do I type that symbol?
    Fox Monacular: or some things are better never than later
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Bertram Jacobus: which one ? this ? : :-)
    Isadora Davidov: yes, that one
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the smiley Isadora?
    Isadora Davidov: yes, the smilely
    Wol Euler: literally just a colon : and a parenthesis )
    Wol Euler: and a hyphen - if you want realism
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Isadora Davidov: oh...!
    Isadora Davidov: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Bertram Jacobus: or, with a nose , with this additional : -
    Bertram Jacobus: or this (little o) :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: :o)
    Isadora Davidov: clever folks
    Fox Monacular: :p
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooh its storming here and may lose power, should go
    Isadora Davidov: Good bye
    Bertram Jacobus: uh. okay sophia s ...
    Fox Monacular: really? it's almost storming here too!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye all, take care!
    Bertram Jacobus: bye you too
    Wol Euler: 'night sophia
    Fox Monacular: bye Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i am on the east coast, you Fox?
    Johny Weissberg: me to to bed, bye all
    Fox Monacular: Montreal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye johny
    Wol Euler: bye johnny, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: good night johny
    Isadora Davidov: Good night!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ah! okay
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ttyl
    Isadora Davidov: me...West Coast...sunny
    Wol Euler smiles as she remembers blackouts. I don't think there has been a power failure here since I moved to Germany 15 years ago.
    Fox Monacular: it's been incredibly humid here, I would definitely welcome a nice storm
    Isadora Davidov: when I lived in the Caribbean there were sometimes outages for weeks...
    Bertram Jacobus: humid it was in germany the last weeks too, many days ...
    Wol Euler: yes, it was grim.
    Wol Euler: wow, weeks is pretty extreme.
    Fox Monacular: my avatar is stuck typing...
    Wol Euler: that happens sometimes, standing might fix it.
    Wol Euler: if not, the World menu command "stop all animatoins"
    Fox Monacular: :), thatnks good to know for the next time
    Isadora Davidov: my phone rang, a long distance call...sorry!
    Isadora Davidov: yes, running a gasoline generator day after day was irritating and tricky
    Wol Euler: wow. what an adventure. how old were you then?
    Isadora Davidov: well..in my early 50's...the tricky part was to decide which things could run off the small generator at the same time...rich people might have installed what they call a "whole house" generator...you know a big back-up system like they have to run institutions that can't shut down
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bertram Jacobus: hello pema ... :-)
    Wol Euler: hello pema
    Fox Monacular: Hi Pema
    Isadora Davidov: when disasters strike...and there are deaths and injuries...that is the real disaster
    Isadora Davidov: Hello Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Bert, Wol, Isadora, Fox, Arisia!
    Wol Euler: true, isa.

    the retreat again and some language specialities -

    Bertram Jacobus: how does it feel, so few days before the retreat pema ? :-)
    Wol Euler: (I didn't mean to ask your age, isa, I thought you might have been there as a child)
    Pema Pera: looking forward to meeting everybody, Bert -- there are now 13 of us, going to the retreat
    Isadora Davidov: Oh, you may ask my age (will be 59 in mid-Sept.)..no my childhood was spent in a lovely home in Raleigh
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Bertram Jacobus: 13 ! wonderful ! and did you make more retreats of similar or same kind before already ? and when yes : how many ? .-)
    Wol Euler: I am very envous of the Retreaters. the day of silence sounds quite wonderful.
    Pema Pera: this is the first PaB retreat (and will be 57 in mid-Sept :-)
    Wol Euler: (turned 51 in June)
    Bertram Jacobus: so I'm the pet of the family - 55 in december ... :o) - oh. not pet. how sad :o)
    Pema Pera: pet?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Pema Pera: poet?
    Wol Euler: you can still be the pet, bertram. as long as you wear a collar.
    Bertram Jacobus: lol. no thanks not such kind of pet - i´ve enough of that, really ! met a person ... (uh)
    Wol Euler: there was a pet at the wedding party I went to last month, it wore a collar and leash and never left its owner's side :)
    Bertram Jacobus: and pema - don´t know wheather that explains for dutch people also (?) : Nesthäkchen
    Wol Euler: bert, pema kann auch recht gut Deutsch :)
    Isadora Davidov: family positions...I think that has had an influence in my life...or at least, the stage of the family at the time I was born into it..
    Fox Monacular: sorry everyone, router just restarted
    Bertram Jacobus: [90 secs] ...
    Wol Euler: wb fox
    Bertram Jacobus: re fox :-)
    Pema Pera: I don't know what "haekchen" means Bert
    Pema Pera: a small Haek?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Pema Pera: and what is a Haek?
    Fox Monacular: a brother to heinecken?
    Wol Euler: the Nesthäkchen is the runt of the litter, the stay-at-home
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: its a kidding form to call the youngest in a family and häkchen means kleiner haken, little hook :-)
    Pema Pera: ah, okay!
    Pema Pera: there must be a better English translation
    Bertram Jacobus: not at leo as it seems - somebody has a better online dictionary ? normally leo is great, from the munich university if i don't fail ...
    Pema Pera: "a little domestic hack"
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe okey :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave. astonishing days here - have a nice time all ! ... :-)
    Wol Euler: goodnight, bert. well done!
    Pema Pera: by Bert!
    Isadora Davidov: Oh...better weather coming soon I hope!
    Bertram Jacobus: ty all :-)
    Fox Monacular: goodnight Bert
    Fox Monacular: take care

    again : retreats ! and babies ... :-)

    Pema Pera: It will be interesting to be at the retreat without internet for five days . . . .
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Fox Monacular: I so crave that
    Wol Euler: and here I thought you'd be attending PaB sessions.
    Pema Pera: the last time for me was more than two years ago
    Isadora Davidov: A rest!
    Fox Monacular: but I don't have a good excuse to turn it of:)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: ah, you should come to the retreat then Fox!
    Pema Pera: that will give you an excuse :-)
    Fox Monacular: yes, I definitely should
    Wol Euler nods
    Fox Monacular: I've been also craving vipassana retreat for past 2 years
    Pema Pera: but I guess this time around was not convenient for you, I mean next week?
    Fox Monacular: but my baby isn't quite weaned yet...
    Wol Euler: that would be difficult, yes.
    Fox Monacular: it's also really far... from Montreal
    Isadora Davidov: Oh! How old is your baby??
    Fox Monacular: just turned 1
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Pema Pera: well, there will be more retreats, something tells me
    Pema Pera: at at different places
    Wol Euler: good
    Fox Monacular: that would be really great
    Fox Monacular: right now I hardly have time to sneak away for sporadic zazens at the closest zen center:)
    Isadora Davidov: How sweet! Infants...well getting bigger...what does he/she do now?
    Pema Pera: so the 9-sec is just perfect for you then, Fox!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fox Monacular: now she's almost walking... so you have to hold her hand all the time... and she falls a lot, and grabs only everything... so it's fun and requires to be 'really present' in the moment:)
    Fox Monacular: yes, 9 sec is about as good as I can ever do now:)
    Isadora Davidov: So delightful...very wonderful..they do so much in those early years!!!!
    Fox Monacular: yes, it's pretty amazing, I didn't think I would like it so much
    Fox Monacular: and my thesis will just write itself I guess:)
    Wol Euler: of course!
    Pema Pera envies Fox's writing skills
    Wol Euler: wu wei.
    Pema Pera: letting-write skills
    Pema Pera: yes :)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: I know I lost some iq points in the last year, so i'll just let it happen.., safer this way

    the PaB books :

    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: I'm curious and excited about hte PaB book, pema.
    Pema Pera: me too, Wol, about all four of them . . . :-)
    Pema Pera: look forward to reading all four!
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Fox Monacular: yes, Pema, is the book a project that has already started?
    Pema Pera: it will officially start right after the retreat, on September 1
    Wol Euler: do you envisoin four separately purchaseable bits of tree, or one volume with major sections?
    Pema Pera: and in 100 days we're trying to get four 100-page books out
    Wol Euler: ah, that answers me.
    Pema Pera: out on the web that is -- we can then see what might be publishable
    Pema Pera: separately or together or in whatever form
    Pema Pera: the first idea is to get material out there
    Pema Pera: as introductions
    Pema Pera: the wiki is a bit too formidable an entry point for newcomers, I think
    Wol Euler: true.
    Pema Pera: and also currently we don't have a consise summary of main points, ideas behind, and background for, PaB
    Pema Pera: I like deadlines . . .
    Pema Pera: in my experiences little happens without them
    Pema Pera: and 100 days seems doable
    Fox Monacular: deadlines don't like me though
    Isadora Davidov: I like collaboration..deadlines are the only way for me...otherwise
    Fox Monacular: yes, it's true
    Pema Pera: hehehe, Fox
    Pema Pera: but you don't need them
    Fox Monacular: 100 days for 100 pages - sounds intense
    Pema Pera: your books write themselves!
    Pema Pera: oh, a page a day should be doable, no?
    Fox Monacular: yes, yes, I don't have that problem anymore:)
    Wol Euler: well, yes, but don'T forget the rewriting.
    Wol Euler: say three pages a day, then edit twice.
    Isadora Davidov: How many words is that?
    Wol Euler <- pedant
    Fox Monacular: yes, but a page a day for over 3 months - that's quite intense I think:)
    Pema Pera: good question Isadora!
    Fox Monacular: btu doable of course, I mean term papers write themselves in 5 hours before submitting
    Pema Pera: hmmm, 400 per page perhaps?
    Pema Pera: so 40,000 ? I'm not sure
    Fox Monacular: if you put images in your book - it'll go faster:)
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: just looked at a random book I have on my computer
    Pema Pera: actually not so random, the Time Space Knowledge book
    Isadora Davidov: I think images, illustrations are extremely valuable...I also like indented formats, like when I take notes in science class
    Wol Euler: :)
    Pema Pera: that one is 77,000 words, but 300 pages
    Fox Monacular: yes, me too
    Pema Pera: so that would suggest 25,000 word for a 100-page book
    Pema Pera: I guess there are pages and pages :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Isadora Davidov: Now when I read long hunks of text, unless the writing is really brilliant/profound, I get annoyed
    Fox Monacular: does bibliography count for 100 pages?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Isadora Davidov: I don't think so...but bibliography is key...raiding bibliographies is THE strategy
    Fox Monacular: in science we onlu read abstracts
    Fox Monacular: so no more than 500 words
    Isadora Davidov: WOW..if you can condense like that ...a person can decide if the thing is worth reading
    Wol Euler: per page? or pr "article"?
    Wol Euler: oh, the abstracts. sorry.
    Wol Euler: crossed wires.
    Pema Pera: abstracts are the pre-twitters of science . . . .
    Wol Euler: yes!
    Wol Euler: now there's a challenge.
    Isadora Davidov: a must!
    Fox Monacular: it's just a format.... i personally like long convoluted ideas
    Wol Euler: write the PaB book on twitter.
    Pema Pera: a long series :)
    Fox Monacular: yes! beingastwitter
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fox Monacular: twitter as being
    Wol Euler: oh! who already grabbed "playasbeing" as a twitter name?
    Fox Monacular: really?
    Pema Pera: !
    Wol Euler: wow, this is odd. It says I can't create that, but Search doesn't find it.
    Wol Euler: guess who! http://twitter.com/Playasbeing/
    Fox Monacular: who?
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Wol Euler: storm
    Pema Pera: can we read what he wrote?
    Fox Monacular: \\\\
    Pema Pera: or do we have to join twitter?
    Wol Euler: he hasn't written anything yet :)
    Fox Monacular: sorry, that was my baby
    Wol Euler: ys, you would hve to join.
    Isadora Davidov: I have never Twittered
    Wol Euler: he follows twenty people, has no followers, and has never tweeted.
    Pema Pera: I twitter at the thought of joining even more social networks, leaving me with no time to sleep . . . .
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: there is that aspect, yes.
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Isadora Davidov: :)
    Fox Monacular: i think sometimes in 140 chars
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: sorry, I started browsing :) Found Neil Gaiman's twitter feed, and read his bio. "will eventually grow up and get a real job. Until then, will keep making things up and writing them down."
    Fox Monacular: -
    Pema Pera: :)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: 0
    Fox Monacular: okay gotta go, baby wants to play with the keyboard
    Pema Pera: well, I should get going . . . see you next time!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: bye pema, bye fox, take care.
    Wol Euler: enjoy the rest of the day
    Pema Pera: bye Fox
    Isadora Davidov: Mee too...I had a good time...
    Wol Euler: bye isa, take care.
    Pema Pera: and bye Wol and Isadora
    Fox Monacular: bye everyone talk to you next time
    Isadora Davidov: Good bye...see you soon
    Wol Euler: I'll be here :)
    Wol Euler: bfn
    Isadora Davidov: O good

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