2009.08.25 01:00 - Languages, cats, jobs and other small talk

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

     I sat on my own for a while, then was joined by Archmage Atlantis. We exchanged some personal information and chitchat.

    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Wester
    Wester Kiranov: hello archmage
    Wester Kiranov: have you been here before?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, several times over the past 2 weeks
    Wester Kiranov: good
    Wester Kiranov: it's a bit quiet now
    Archmage Atlantis: For some reason I am more likely to make this meeting, and I only remember one time it was very busy
    Wester Kiranov: you mean the 1 am meeting, i suppose, not the 1 am on tuesday
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, for me it is 4 AM local, and I seem to wake up often around this time
    Wester Kiranov: ah. for me it's 10 am, and the children are at the playgroup, so i have some time
    Archmage Atlantis: Um, that would be Western Europe, Ireland? ,,, I'm in US , SW FLorida
    Archmage Atlantis: I know Finnland is 7 hours diff, and GMT is 5
    Wester Kiranov: Yes, the Netherlands. Ireland is close enough ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hey, I'm actually getting better at this time thing :)
    Wester Kiranov: I was wondering where you were as well
    Wester Kiranov: It was actually the first time I looked up the map with time zones in the atlas
    Archmage Atlantis: For some reason my closest friends so far are in Finnland and Germany, and California
    Archmage Atlantis: It really has taken a while to get used to the wide variation, now I just accept whoever if around, esp PaB as most everyone who shows up here is interesting *smile*
    Archmage Atlantis: So you teach?
    Archmage Atlantis: Children I mean.
    Wester Kiranov: I don't, I'm a housewifey ;)
    Wester Kiranov: I do want to get a job again pretty soon though, but it's hard to find one
    Wester Kiranov: the children I mentioned are my own
    Archmage Atlantis: Everywhere, it's hard....I actually am lucky to be disabled and have a steady income I guess
    Wester Kiranov: financially, it's not that hard, my husband has a job. I just would prefer not to spend my days at home.
    Archmage Atlantis: Understand, my mom worked her entire life until she became unable, she preferrred it
    Wester Kiranov: having a steady income is good I guess, being disabled not really...
    Wester Kiranov: can i ask what disability you have?
    Archmage Atlantis: One takes things as the are, if one choses to be ......well, I hesitate to use the word, but enlightened about RL
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh, until 3 years ago I had a career.....the main factors keeping me homebound now are neuropathy and vascular disease
    Archmage Atlantis: Not painful tho, just motion limiting
    Archmage Atlantis: Have you been coming to PaB long? And how did you learn of this project, if I may ask?
    Archmage Atlantis: Oops, missed the bell
    Wester Kiranov: I think I heard about it last november ... I went to one of the kira summer schools that was organized by Piet/Pema among others.
    Archmage Atlantis: Right, he's Dutch if I remember
    Wester Kiranov: And then he sent an email to the people that had been there that he was on second life now.
    Wester Kiranov: He is originally Dutch, but he's been in the US forever
    Wester Kiranov: He can still talk in Dutch though
    Wester Kiranov: And you? How did you learn about PaB?
    Archmage Atlantis: My paternal famility name is on a 1500s ship's manifest of settlers from England, so everyone but the Amerinds in a newcomer *that was meant as humor*
    Archmage Atlantis: PaB was sort of an unexpected benefit of a project I hired ThreeDee Shepherd's design firm to help me with.
    Wester Kiranov: ah
    Archmage Atlantis: I meet Moon and Stargate through that project, then Fael and Ari, and they were talking about PaB
    Archmage Atlantis: So I came to see for myself
    Wester Kiranov: that's nice
    Archmage Atlantis: There are always interesting, intelligent people here, so I like coming when I can
    Archmage Atlantis: I've read the materials on the web site about the ideas for PaB
    Wester Kiranov: the people here are pretty amazing, I agree :-)
    Wester Kiranov: I am sorry, but I have to wake up hubby now. brb.
    Archmage Atlantis: Ok, lucky fellow
    Archmage Atlantis: :)
    Wester Kiranov: back
    Archmage Atlantis: wb, He sleeps late?
    Archmage Atlantis: Nosey
    Wester Kiranov: if he can. and on tuesdays i bring the kids to the playgroup so he can sleep in
    Wester Kiranov: usually we are woken pretty early by the kids
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, that answers many questions I did not feel it appropriate to ask....tho I must admit to being a bit curious about people and their lives....it is both a gift and a difficulty of mine......As is much for all of us I suppose
    Wester Kiranov: it's nice that you're interested in peoples lives.
    Archmage Atlantis: Do you speak English, or use a translator program........as an English speaker, I forget others throughout the world use translator programs
    Archmage Atlantis: And it's better if I clean up my sloppy typing and use better grammar if I want them to understand me
    Wester Kiranov: I speak english. Translator programs sometimes do weird things so i'm happy i'm not dependent on them
    Archmage Atlantis: My experience is that if I am aware of the program, I can adjust my quality of speaking to a more formal one that the program will understand in general
    Archmage Atlantis: But I love slang, especially from prior decades, so if I get going, it can get messy fast :)
    Wester Kiranov: sometimes you find really weird translations by programs. that can be fun too
    Archmage Atlantis: True, that and differing cultural references can create some interesting conversations
    Wester Kiranov: there was one where they wanted to translate "shelter" as in battery case, but they took a very specific term of shelter for battered women
    Wester Kiranov: and cultural differences, yes
    Archmage Atlantis: I can see the shelter thing, though I would never think it
    Wester Kiranov: of course not, you have to be a computer to think it.
    Archmage Atlantis: I had an international economics professor in college decades ago who had a funny story about taking a class on a field trip to London from Atlanta
    Stargate Tone came along too.
    Wester Kiranov: hi star
    Stargate Tone: Hello Wester
    Stargate Tone: Hello my bro
    Wester Kiranov: tell me the funny story then arch
    Archmage Atlantis: One young lady asked to be woken up at a certain time, say 9AM. The hotel manger said "Right miss, I'll be up at 9AM to 'knock you up' " - By which he meant knock on her door, but in American slang has another less innocent meaning
    Wester Kiranov: lol
    Stargate Tone: lol
    Archmage Atlantis: The tower of bable lives on, even amoung those who speak the same language
    Archmage Atlantis: How old are the children, Wester, again if I may ask.
    Wester Kiranov: They are both three years old. A boy and a girl.
    Stargate Tone: _/!\_
    Archmage Atlantis: Fraternal twins?
    Wester Kiranov: yes, twins
    Archmage Atlantis: That's a handful
    Stargate Tone: smiles *
    Wester Kiranov: it's amazing how many people ask if they's identical (although in dutch it's called een-eiig, from one egg)
    Archmage Atlantis: The playground must be "very, very" well supervised
    Wester Kiranov: it is very busy and very lovely
    Stargate Tone: (just saw a wonderful 'view' from her window; father pushing the babybocky )
    Stargate Tone: (thouhgt that there we go; as he had huge speed, but I'm sure the baby only enjoyed)
    Archmage Atlantis: Star, you are the only person I know who is nosier than me
    Archmage Atlantis: Transcendental genetics
    Archmage Atlantis: *chortles*
    Stargate Tone: smiles *
    Stargate Tone: ah; Wester can tell that I can be in silence too *
    Archmage Atlantis: Did you work before the kids were born, Wester?
    Wester Kiranov: I did work, but I never found a job I really liked, so i will have to look for a new one when they are a bit older
    Archmage Atlantis: You need a mission, a calling......a job will never satisfy the "soul", only pay the bills
    Archmage Atlantis: brb
    Stargate Tone: s heart feels specially happyness that U've been with them untill
    Stargate Tone: I've always thought that children should have possibility to be home with parent or parents up to 3 years
    Stargate Tone: cuz they are the most important years
    Stargate Tone: there's so much in life that would need the base feeling of security
    Stargate Tone: and most of that is 'drawn into the soul to be' during these years...or not
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, that matches the findings of child psychology also Star
    Stargate Tone: wb my bro
    Stargate Tone: aha
    Archmage Atlantis: My staff were lucky to get 6 weeks and keep their jobs, because people here are all about work, money, and ammmon
    Archmage Atlantis: * and Mammon
    Stargate Tone: ahh
    Wester Kiranov: here in holland maternity leave is 16 weeks and they are talking about making paternity leave possible.
    Wester Kiranov: too bad i didn't have a job when i got pregnant ;)
    Stargate Tone: there was 4 weeks 'volounteered' 'vacation' for the babybirth to women in Finland when my son was born; I decided to quit that I can be home with him longer
    Wester Kiranov: that's very short
    Stargate Tone: but nowadays there's one year at least to mom and at least half a year to father during or after that; one may chooce; and that's payed time
    Archmage Atlantis: I thought most of Europe allowed at least a year's leave, no?
    Wester Kiranov: even 16 weeks often isn't enough - some 25% of dutch women don't make it back to their job at that time
    Stargate Tone: and that's good news
    Stargate Tone: ah no Arch...
    Wester Kiranov: there are very large differnce between countries
    Stargate Tone: and yes; in Finland that happened that cuz all the fathers didn't use that time, the law was changed to be 'not volounteered'
    Wester Kiranov: there is a pretty strong lobby in the Netherlands for 1 year maternity leave
    Stargate Tone: *
    Archmage Atlantis: Unless a Dad is a single parent, or the primary caregiver for the kids, I'd say the father's time should come later
    Archmage Atlantis: When the kids really need a "bracing" for the RL
    Wester Kiranov: I think the father should have a few weeks in the beginning as well. get used to the children, learn how to change diapers, give the mother a rest
    Stargate Tone: I agree with Wester, cuz it's not any easy to become a parent, and less easy to father
    Stargate Tone: sure all are individuals
    Stargate Tone: but generally speaking
    Stargate Tone: here in Finland most of the fathers goes also to the babybirth and help the mom
    Stargate Tone: that's been already ab 20 years so
    Archmage Atlantis: Isn't that what the 2 grandmothers ar supposed to do, Wester, "chuckle* - Really, how many men really would use that time to help the mom and the babies,......we are almost as dependent as children ourselves (men I mean)
    Wester Kiranov: men can learn as well :)
    Stargate Tone: smiles _/!\_
    Wester Kiranov: my hubby took a few weeks of when the kids were born. Just as well, because I did need some time to recover from giving birth
    Archmage Atlantis: Good for him
    Stargate Tone: and yes; I dont even remember when I saw 'the last time' that mom was pushing the babybocky alone; so long time there's been fathers to do that
    Wester Kiranov: *of=off
    Stargate Tone: that truly is urgent thing; so long time there was lowerings to the probs of mom just cuz the probs are 'naturall'...
    Stargate Tone: (but yes; would like some imporvement still )
    Archmage Atlantis: I assume "babybocky" = "baby stroller" or "baby carriage", but I like the alteration of "babybocky"
    Stargate Tone: ah yes
    Stargate Tone: that's the word my first englishteacher teached
    Stargate Tone: as she teached few things with the funny way (not that I'de know if I learned well)
    Wester Kiranov: good you've had other teachers since :)
    Archmage Atlantis: English English, or American Enlish
    Archmage Atlantis: or Autralian
    Stargate Tone: as there was this; missis pussasi babybocky from kitchen to petiruuma
    Stargate Tone: as those words are 'finnish' :)*** 'almost'
    Stargate Tone: the joke is with the words 'pussasi' and 'petiruuma'
    Archmage Atlantis: Non-native English speaker then
    Wester Kiranov: they look finnish until you pronounce them
    Stargate Tone: 'pussasi' is near to 'push', but means 'kissed'
    Wester Kiranov: ahhh
    Stargate Tone: yes; as finnish is written as spoken
    Stargate Tone: and 'bed' is 'peti' in finnish, but not so much used word; the more common is 'sänky'
    Stargate Tone: and ruuma is near the 'room', but means the cargo space in them ships
    Stargate Tone: well; she was the only teacher that teached me...
    Stargate Tone: she teached much with songs too; she even invited children to go to her home to study them songs in english
    Archmage Atlantis: Wester. we got into this conversation about the origns of Finnish the other day.....It's neither Germanic nor Romance in origing
    Wester Kiranov: I know, it's related to hungarian
    Wester Kiranov: the two european languages that i cannot get AT ALL
    Stargate Tone: understand well
    Wester Kiranov: I think I know one finnish and one hungarian word
    Archmage Atlantis: Give Basque a try, you'll hit the same problem
    Stargate Tone: but we have the saying that 'only an other finnish person has the possibility to understand an other finnish person'; meaning the language
    Wester Kiranov: finnish people are weird anyway :P
    Stargate Tone: yes
    Stargate Tone: so true
    Stargate Tone: *love you*
    Archmage Atlantis: Weird? That's a complement?
    Stargate Tone: we are verrry curious children to everything and all
    Stargate Tone: to me that is :)*
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Stargate Tone: hm...well...sure it depends much of who sais that :)***
    Archmage Atlantis: Speaking of cats, although we weren't, there is a breed of large thick furred cats called in English "Norwegian Forest Cat"
    Archmage Atlantis: Very intelligent
    Archmage Atlantis: Any Finnish equivalent?
    Wester Kiranov: aren't all cats very intelligent?
    Stargate Tone: well; people in Norway and Finnland love each other; both 'hate' people who live in Sweden....
    Archmage Atlantis: Not really, some are just self-centered
    Wester Kiranov: that's what you think ...
    Stargate Tone: well; that is 'one mark' of intellegence; not to let other beings to command...
    Archmage Atlantis: The intelligent ones have a bit of dog like quality, just enough
    Archmage Atlantis: Still independent tho
    Stargate Tone: well; I'de take that to be wise :)***
    Stargate Tone: and yes; we finnish and people in Norway are 'intelligent cats'.....
    Stargate Tone: it's easy to get us to play; to test everything, but to change our way ; impossible :)***
    Stargate Tone: like you said that I'm stubbern as the mule ; that's one charachter to be 'finnish'....
    Archmage Atlantis: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Norwegian_Forest_Cat_Portrait.JPG&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Norwegian_Forest_Cat_Portrait.JPG&usg=__eRXqFDUHggkEWTr7hUjemgjgKYs=&h=752&w=500&sz=77&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=MxMmslvg9Ye6xM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=94&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorwegian%2Bforest%2Bcat%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
    Archmage Atlantis: and
    Archmage Atlantis: http://www.moggyblog.com/blogs/media/users/admin/norwegianforestcat.jpg
    Archmage Atlantis: See how they look at you, questioning? The average cat just demands
    Stargate Tone: but we have wanted to learn languages and serve people who come to visit us with there own language; when we go abroad we dont bring 'our way of life' , but observe and honour the local way; we neither wouldn't like others to come and tell us how to live, but we honour also the way of life of the visitors
    Stargate Tone: just a sec
    Stargate Tone: I felt that you spoke of these cats; we call them simply 'the forest cat'; free translation of finnish 'name'
    Archmage Atlantis: Don't know why I headed off there in that direction
    Stargate Tone: the most wise cat I ever had was this kind; his name also was Susi; meaning 'wolf'
    Archmage Atlantis: Mentally back "smile"
    Stargate Tone: he even left us when the girl who we 'brought him' grew up to adulthud, even they was no way related as the family
    Stargate Tone: but Susi took her to be his daughter....
    Archmage Atlantis: So Wester, what career would be satisfying to you when you do go "get a job"
    Stargate Tone: she went to leave with 3 other cats who was taken to the operation...think you know what I mean
    Archmage Atlantis: Other than your current one, of course
    Archmage Atlantis: I know, Star
    Wester Kiranov: well - i always wanted to do research in the foundations of natural sciences but I don't think I am going to make it now. More realistic options:
    Wester Kiranov: I could become a translator, make subtitles
    Wester Kiranov: or i could give cooking courses, teach how to be more creative with your CSA package
    Wester Kiranov: those are the options i am considering right now
    Archmage Atlantis: Ok, 2 things, first what is a "CSA package"
    Wester Kiranov: well
    Wester Kiranov: it's when you get a package of vegetables straight from the farmer instead of using a shop. I thought CSA (community supported agriculture) was american english ;-) We call it "groentetas", vegetable bag. A packet of seasonal vegetables and fruit.
    Wester Kiranov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community-supported_agriculture
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, you are correct, I just didn't know the abbreviation
    Wester Kiranov: I think it is nice because it is a challenge, you get vegetables you don't know, or that you think you don't like
    Wester Kiranov: or you have to think of another way to make cabbage ;)
    Stargate Tone: kurssi
    Wester Kiranov: but many people see it as a problem when they have one, they feel their choice is impaired
    Archmage Atlantis: I really like that idea
    Stargate Tone: many people give lessons in SL too and get money from that....
    Stargate Tone: ...have let people to 'teach' me that it shall be even more by time
    Wester Kiranov: that's a nice idea too ... have to look into it better
    Stargate Tone: that people shall learn SL to be one source to education too
    Archmage Atlantis: I also think that research into the fondations of natural science is a wonderful idea, you could do your own reseach and reading, and write (or blog) about it for others
    Stargate Tone: agree with you Arch
    Wester Kiranov: it does rule out the possibility of letting people taste a bit though...
    Wester Kiranov: (SL teaching)
    Stargate Tone: *
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, you will reach more people on SL, that might translate into a few live lessions, one never knows, then live classes also.......
    Archmage Atlantis: And both of these would allow you to be with the children more that a regular job
    Wester Kiranov: so would the subtitles, i could do that at home
    Archmage Atlantis: Sounds like you have some good options, and complementary in nature
    Wester Kiranov: hubby and kiddies are coming home now, so I will have to say bye.
    Stargate Tone: Hello Abbis
    Archmage Atlantis: It's that time,, true
    Wester Kiranov: thank you for a lovely conversation
    Stargate Tone: click the info and U'll get much info of PaB
    Archmage Atlantis: Thank you Wester, I enjoyed it
    Abbis Salamander: hello everybobe, smiles
    Stargate Tone: wishing good time to you Wester _/!\_
    Archmage Atlantis: Blessings to you
    Wester Kiranov: hi & bye to abbis, bye to the rest
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