2009.08.26 13:00 - Passing Thoughts

The Guardian for this meeting was Pila Mulligan, sitting in for Fefonz Quan. This was planned to be the silent day at the real life retreat in California.  Also this day, U.S. Senator Edward Kennedy passed away.  The discussion became a thoughtful chat on the idea of death.

Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila! :)
Pila Mulligan: how are you today?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm okay... you are a cloud :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I was still here from my session this morning...
Pila Mulligan: I've been called worse
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Pila Mulligan: ahh
Eliza Madrigal: How are you?
Pila Mulligan: I'm fine thanks
Eliza Madrigal: Aside from being a cloud :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, there you are
Pila Mulligan: there is something that can accelerate rezzing I tihnk, I believe Wol said what it is once, but I forget
Eliza Madrigal: I think the edit appearance button can do that
Pila Mulligan: so today is silence day at the retreat and also today Senator Kennedy passed away
Eliza Madrigal: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: I hope his passing may 'encourage' others to take up his vision
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: it may be an inspiration
Pila Mulligan: hopefully
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pila Mulligan: his efforts for progressive health care were prodigious
Eliza Madrigal: yes... was a real call for him.
Eliza Madrigal: So, we'll see :)
Pila Mulligan: with fingers crossed :)
Pila Mulligan: for good luck
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: It does seem to happen that way at times... that someone's passing brings about a vision accomplished kind of thing
Pila Mulligan: yes, it does
Pila Mulligan: and Michael Jackson's recent income never did so well as it did after he passed away
Eliza Madrigal: Sure... though I have less understanding of that kind of hoopla, must admit
Pila Mulligan: it may be a similar phenomenon
Pila Mulligan: death elevates the deceased person
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Pila Mulligan: hi Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: which makes one understand certain practices of considering death as contemplation, etc
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram! I have a question... were you at Lodro's talk?
Bertram Jacobus: no. sry - why ?
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, missed today... will have to wait for a transcript :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Pila ,Eliza and Bert
Eliza Madrigal: Hey SophiaSharon :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi sophia
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... hi mick ! ... :-) ... but you had an interesting topic : comtemplation of death and such ? :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pila, Eliza, Bertram :)
Bertram Jacobus: and hello sophia s ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well, the beginnings of one maybe... were talking about death sometimes elevating a person and therefore at times, their vision
Mickorod Renard: lol,,who's topic was that Bert?
Pila Mulligan: today US Senator Kennedy passed away
Pila Mulligan: John Kennedy's brother
Bertram Jacobus: eliza and pila were the only ones as i arrived mick ... ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: We appreciate people more when they are gone, it seems
Mickorod Renard: yes, I am sorry to hear that
Eliza Madrigal: Eunice Shriver passed away a few weeks ago
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: same clan
Mickorod Renard: I am sorry I dont recall her name?
Eliza Madrigal: was very inspired by her daughter's speech at the eulogy
SophiaSharon Larnia: the closest the usa has to royalty
Eliza Madrigal: She founded Special Olympics
Mickorod Renard: ahhh
Pila Mulligan: she was a Kennedy sister
Eliza Madrigal: Her husband Sargeant Shriver helped found Peace Corp
Mickorod Renard: well,,death is something we will all face one day
Eliza Madrigal: yes..and every day if we notice?
Pila Mulligan: and it sometimes boosts the public veiw of a deceased person
Mickorod Renard: grin
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: so we wondered if the result may help Kennedy's reform ideas
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pila Mulligan: but then just contmeplation of death as a meditaiton was what I believe ELiza mentioned
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Mickorod Renard: dificult to tell,,the uk people dont seem to cling to dynastical followings
Pila Mulligan: uh
Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: like Windsors? :)
Mickorod Renard: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bertram Jacobus: dynastical followings ? what does that mean, please ?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Mickorod Renard: but they are not seen in a political view
Pila Mulligan: Willy and Kate will make a splash
Mickorod Renard: thats about all
Eliza Madrigal: Diana is another, like Jackson... feeding off of her pain until she dies and then "oh no we miss her"
Mickorod Renard: but maybe one day we will have a lil blair again..or maybe a thatcher
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry... not a big tabloid fan :)
Pila Mulligan: so does the contemplation of death as a meditation resonate with anyone?
Mickorod Renard: its funny,,I often wonder how we forget some negative issues of dead people after a while
Pila Mulligan: true
Pila Mulligan: we forget things generally pretty quickly
SophiaSharon Larnia: i haven't really considered it Pila
Mickorod Renard: I recall how negative I was about my own father when he was alive,,now I only have fond memories
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: as a meditation
Pila Mulligan: :)
Mickorod Renard: oops,,lag
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes we can look at things with more humor... something that was aggravating becomes a funny quirk...
Eliza Madrigal: and that's why I think, the meditation on impermanence? that we can see that way when someone is here, too?
Pila Mulligan: yep
Bertram Jacobus: i know the practises of contemplation of death quite well - and my experience may be a bit strange : i feel much craving when i think about that ...
Pila Mulligan: interesting Bertram, more?
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure I follow,,sorry
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting Bert, you mean you don't feel fear?
Bertram Jacobus: not really : i know that my body may produce fear when "it's time" - but my mind feels this craving ... for peace for example, hope for end of suffering and such
Pila Mulligan: an optimistic view, then
Mickorod Renard: Bert, I think I am a lil like you
Eliza Madrigal nods... makes sense.. may be a way to bring that into daily worries then
Bertram Jacobus: absolutely ! because it's a matter of nature. and i love nature so much
Eliza Madrigal: that's a really nice idea :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: death is usually something to be fought against, despite the suffering this causes, because of the way we view it
Mickorod Renard: yes
Pila Mulligan: we actually have quite a variety of views of death in the world, some incompatible with each other, but certainly all diverse
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes true
Pila Mulligan: i like the idea of allowing someone to die if they wish to
Pila Mulligan: that seems immoral to many
SophiaSharon Larnia: not to me
Mickorod Renard: I think its natural to avoid death if posible,,but so many things are so exciting when they are on the edge of risk of death
Pila Mulligan: yes the thrill aspect mick
Bertram Jacobus: "but" : MY personnaly work won't be finished until life and death will have the same value for me. until now, i find life more difficult or that is at least my idea ...
Pila Mulligan: I think the physical demands of life are, as you mentioned earlier Bert, the difficulty
Bertram Jacobus: and pila : i agree very much with your statement
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: the idea of death is easier, who is to is to say it actually is easier, once you have 'moved on'
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: true
Bertram Jacobus: "right" pila, it seems to be so
Eliza Madrigal: yes... I find that 'death' in general is hard to think about... but the many 'small' deaths... the daily letting go... seems important to pay attention to somehow
Bertram Jacobus: hy arabella ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)
Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is so hard for me to conceptualize this as 'small deaths', I know intuitively that you are right in putting it that way though
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone
Mickorod Renard: just eating dinner,,but I am following
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Arabella
Eliza Madrigal: somehow the letting go IS the embracing too... the living
Bertram Jacobus: sophia s ? what does this "moved on" mean, please ?
Pila Mulligan: we seem to be contemplating death ara
arabella Ella: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: to die, to continue what comes after death
arabella Ella: do u know death was a subject i considered bringing up tonite too
Eliza Madrigal: Really?
Pila Mulligan: well, here it is then :)
arabella Ella: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Yes Eliza (to the embracing) :)
Pila Mulligan: what was your inspiration or idea ara?
arabella Ella: i know more than 10 people who passed away these past months, the last one yesterday suddenly aged 34
arabella Ella: two thoughts
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Ara, wow
arabella Ella: one on the fragility of life and how it is a precious gift to treasure
Pila Mulligan: indeed
arabella Ella: two ... on how death is like russian roulette
Pila Mulligan: humans are quite frail, despite their bravado
arabella Ella: just random
Pila Mulligan: yep
Eliza Madrigal nods to Pila
Pila Mulligan: random in appearance at least
arabella Ella: why only in appearance Pila?
Pila Mulligan: maybe our days are indeed numbered as the saying goes
Eliza Madrigal: and yes I agree with the seemingly random
Mickorod Renard: and we exist for such a short time too
Bertram Jacobus: random is a funny idea to me : the expression for something we don't know
arabella Ella: Bert ... random ... like a lottery where you never know what the next number will be ... chance
Eliza Madrigal: yes Bertram, that's what I was thinking... we often call something random when we don't understand it
Bertram Jacobus: but we also don't know wheather it really is so randomly ;-)
Pila Mulligan: having so many losses in such a brief time is unsual, except in a calamity
SophiaSharon Larnia: random to me means something without a direct cause
Eliza Madrigal: Hm
arabella Ella: yes ... sounds like a calamity ... and they are all ages too ranging from 30s to 70s
Bertram Jacobus: for me it's one of three concepts : random, fate or karma :o)
arabella Ella: some sudden some after illness
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh Ara
Eliza Madrigal shakes head... how tough
Pila Mulligan: well, condolences to you and their famalies ara
arabella Ella: well it is always tough for those left behind ... their young families often enough
arabella Ella: ty
Bertram Jacobus: me too : condolence ara
arabella Ella: ty
Pila Mulligan: yes, the nostalgia part
Pila Mulligan: missing them
arabella Ella: but i also read something interesting in a novel recently which i had not realised
--BELL--
arabella Ella: it seems that those who know they have a death sentence hanging over their heads as a result of a terminal illness cannot enjoy the expectations as we do of doing things which they always wanted to do as their perspective then changes totally it seems
Pila Mulligan: sensible
arabella Ella: i had never realised this before
Pila Mulligan: although there may be exceptions
Eliza Madrigal: you mean the way they live moment to moment? They concentrate focus perhaps?
Mickorod Renard: or do they give up?
Pila Mulligan: I've read about people in those situations going all out doing things in their last days
arabella Ella: well imagine you always wanted to learn how to sail or you always wanted to visit the caribean
Pila Mulligan: but that seems to be an exception, hence the news articles
arabella Ella: the expectations of pleasure from the experience can change radically
arabella Ella: no future to look forward to ... like relating experiences in 10 years time
Mickorod Renard: again, that depends on their view of death
Eliza Madrigal nods... that's something I think I understand a bit
Pila Mulligan: most people probably shift their attention then to immediate needs
arabella Ella nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes and the people around them who will miss them
Eliza Madrigal: or to helping them factor their absence
Eliza Madrigal: or seeming absence?
Mickorod Renard: I am sure its the people left behind that suffer most
Eliza Madrigal nods... a 47 yo family member of someone close to me passed away recently... left a son my son's age
arabella Ella: how sad
Eliza Madrigal: yes :(
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: makes us reflect a great deal more ... what are we ... who are we ... why are we here
Mickorod Renard: has anyone here died,,and then come back?
arabella Ella: and why such randomness
Pila Mulligan: I'd suggest something here, relating to cultural differences -- in this case between Polynesian and western views of death
arabella Ella: yes?
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Pila Mulligan: before we get to coming back :)
Pila Mulligan: make a place for the departed loved one
Bertram Jacobus: i saw at least that "famous white light" mick ... many years ago ...
Pila Mulligan: welcome them to your spirit and converse with them
Pila Mulligan: they are at home still
Pila Mulligan: don't ignore them ...
Mickorod Renard: me too bert
arabella Ella: is that how Polynesians view passing Pila?
Pila Mulligan: ... like they went to Pittsburg or something
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: they are still there
arabella Ella: very interesting view
Bertram Jacobus: nice pila and mick :-)
Pila Mulligan: now, white light :)
arabella Ella: and do you agree with this view Pila?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Mickorod Renard: thats nice
Eliza Madrigal listens
Pila Mulligan: dead people don't like to be ignored :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bertram Jacobus: i would prefer if it were like unconcious sleep, eternal. would find that very relaxing...
Mickorod Renard: I often tell my friends that I never forget those who I loved and have died
Eliza Madrigal: I've had a sense of crossing over and still being here... not quite the same thing
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
Pila Mulligan: Bert and Mick, would you care to say more about your near death experiences?
Eliza Madrigal: I'd be very interested to hear others' experiences
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Bertram Jacobus: hello wol ... :-)
Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol
Pila Mulligan: the topic is death
Wol Euler: sorry I'm late
Wol Euler: eeeep
Pila Mulligan: welcome
Wol Euler: perhaps I am early.
Mickorod Renard: wow..my chat is very laggy tonite
Pila Mulligan: you are not late :)
Wol Euler checks her pulse. Still there.
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Pila Mulligan: :) yea
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
arabella Ella: should we check ours too Wol?
arabella Ella: just to be sure ...
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: you never know ...
Eliza Madrigal: we could try to check each others... but um...
Bertram Jacobus: here too : very laggy. but in the background my computer loads down something. can't stop it. a game thing. sry
Pila Mulligan: 'Bertram Jacobus: i saw at least that "famous white light" mick ... many years ago ...' [and] 'Mickorod Renard: me too bert'
Wol Euler: O.O
Eliza Madrigal: :) Thank you Pila
Pila Mulligan: hoping to hear more about the white light stuff
Wol Euler: indeed
arabella Ella listens too
Mickorod Renard: yes,,mine is doing virus scans
Bertram Jacobus: mick seems to write so i like very much to wait ...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Pila Mulligan: no problem Bert
Mickorod Renard: well,,I dont know how personal it is
Pila Mulligan: no problem, Mick
Mickorod Renard: and also how silly it may be
Pila Mulligan: not pressing
Bertram Jacobus: can't be too silly i guess
Mickorod Renard: ok
Mickorod Renard: well,,without details,,the white light bit
Bertram Jacobus: as i got to know you till now ... appreciate -
Mickorod Renard: the feeling of total release of all pain
Bertram Jacobus: and all the people here i can say
Mickorod Renard: of pure relaxation and wonderment
Mickorod Renard: no fear
Pila Mulligan: feeling of total release of all pain sounds comforting
Eliza Madrigal: MMM yes quite
Mickorod Renard: yes
Bertram Jacobus: it's like i knew it ... so nice ...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: like an old freind, Bert?
Mickorod Renard: cool,,nice to share with someone who's experienced it
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder about when you came out of that place...? What feeling then?
Bertram Jacobus: like home pila
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Mickorod Renard: it was pandamonium for me,,so many panicing
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: I was almost sad to come back
Mickorod Renard: oops
arabella Ella: my parents had the experience too but slightly different according to how my mum related it
arabella Ella: they were in italy and drank some wine which was mixed with the de-frosting stuff
arabella Ella: which made them both very ill in their hotel
Bertram Jacobus: [90 secs] ... ;-)
arabella Ella: and mum says she saw the tunnel with white light and she saw her mum at the end of the tunnel who spoke to her
Mickorod Renard: was that not comforting to her Ara?
Bertram Jacobus: people seem to see and experience a lot ... hm - but what mick / you tell(s) - is all very familiar to me, also the falling back from such an experience ...
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that is what I wondered Mick...if you felt abandoned somehow...
Mickorod Renard: while I was gone?
Eliza Madrigal: when back
arabella Ella: yes Mick i think it was her mum who urged her to come back to this world
Mickorod Renard: I see,,I think I came back before meeting anyone
Eliza Madrigal: wow...yes it is uncanny people report such similarities
Pila Mulligan: maybe not Eliza
Pila Mulligan: if it is really all the same
Bertram Jacobus: i had not such experiences too mick
Mickorod Renard: for me it could have just been the light before total blackness
Mickorod Renard: but the peace was real enough
Mickorod Renard: and I had beeen in excruciating pain
Bertram Jacobus: takes a deep breath
Pila Mulligan: now you are dipping into the pessimistic part, mick -- total blackness
Mickorod Renard: I would prefer to think its all white
Mickorod Renard: as in all right
Pila Mulligan: well, it got off to a good start that way
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are articles that state this is a neurological phenomenon, not a spiritual one, I don't necessarily agree
Pila Mulligan: written by neurologists no doubt
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes probably
Mickorod Renard: I dont know if it matters,,he he
Bertram Jacobus: what is more important ? what we feel or what we meant to know ?
Eliza Madrigal: Pila and I talked about something similar once... but for me it wasn't a death experience...and no 'light'...certainly had been an experience of lovepeacebliss
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Mick, that was my conclusion also :)
Bertram Jacobus: 5 mick :o)
Bertram Jacobus: mean*
Eliza Madrigal: so I wonder about the light especially :)
arabella Ella: could you say more Eliza?
Mickorod Renard: it was a bathing light
Eliza Madrigal: I felt completely 'dropped' after
Mickorod Renard: a massaging light
Eliza Madrigal: abandoned... Pila suggested if it had been in the light I might not have felt that... and it helped a lot
Eliza Madrigal: a massaging light... Hmm.
Eliza Madrigal: what I experienced was a kind of thousands of black waterfalls
Mickorod Renard: well,,you dont hang about and do tests
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
Mickorod Renard: wow,,thats diferent
Eliza Madrigal: maybe...not so sure
Eliza Madrigal: if we do bring our own components to things... maybe something can be light for one and dark for another? I donno
Eliza Madrigal: don't usually talk about it :)
Mickorod Renard: mmm
arabella Ella: perhaps also bringing it into language gives it interpretations which may not be exactly what is experienced
Bertram Jacobus: it's nice that we can talk here in a very free way
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) Unusual to feel comfortable :)
arabella Ella: language at times appears to leave out certain intuitive details
Mickorod Renard: I think it makes a diference how quick it happens
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely, Ara
Bertram Jacobus: how quick ?
Mickorod Renard: well,,maybe if you have time to think about stuff,,maybe its diferent
Bertram Jacobus: ah
Bertram Jacobus: okay :-)
Mickorod Renard: just a thought
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Pila Mulligan: from the descriptions, I'd say Mick and Bert were at the Bardo door, so to speak, but Eliza I'd guess your experience was more of a life phenomenon than a death phenomenon
Mickorod Renard: I remember nearly passing out not long ago,,which is not normal..and I felt panic
arabella Ella: what is the Bardo door Pila?
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes seems so
Mickorod Renard: that was blacker
Eliza Madrigal: I can get that sense now, while considering light, and it helps
Pila Mulligan: the Bardos are Tibetan phases of death
arabella Ella: ah
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Mickorod Renard: tell us more Pila
arabella Ella: could you say more Pila please?
arabella Ella: what is your take on all this?
Pila Mulligan: well, this is one of those Buddhist things were everyone describes their own view of the elephant
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Pila Mulligan: but it is from the Tibetan Book of the Dead
Pila Mulligan: an old classic :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
arabella Ella: ah ha
Pila Mulligan: it describes the phases of death as if they were days
Pila Mulligan: on the first day this happens
Pila Mulligan: and so forth
Pila Mulligan: it seems that many cultures have a view of the first five days after death
Pila Mulligan: ... what they mean -- essentially that it is a transition time
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: hi Yak [in 90 sec pause]
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)
Bertram Jacobus: but not only that pila : there is always the "bardo of life" (you may know) and bardo in general means somthing like "phase" (of "time") - i hope, i don't express it too bad ... and "right" : very often when people speak abaout bardo, they refer to the bardo of dying or the bardo of being dead
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
arabella Ella: Hiya Yakuzza
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
Mickorod Renard: Hiya yaku
Pila Mulligan: nice Bert, thanks
Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
Pila Mulligan: yes, I was referring specificly to the Tibetan Book of the Dead
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have seen quite a few people on their death bed, but all I've sensed from them is silence. I've always had the idea that I'm missing something.
Pila Mulligan: it has verses to be read to the departed on each day
Bertram Jacobus: and a bit late sry hi yaku :-)
Pila Mulligan: were they friends or patients SophiaSharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: patients
Pila Mulligan: maybe why
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Pila Mulligan: not enough intimacy
Pila Mulligan: naturally, that is
Pila Mulligan: while their family may have felt more
Eliza Madrigal: Hm SophiaSharon, You mean they seem to turn inward, or..still?
Pila Mulligan: a friend's mother recently died while they were holding hands
Pila Mulligan: with the granddaughter also
Eliza Madrigal smiles... that is a nice way
Pila Mulligan: they said it was very beautiful
SophiaSharon Larnia: I can't really say Eliza
Mickorod Renard: I have held several dead people,,and one things for sure,,once they are gone they are gone
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: gone gone gone :)
Pila Mulligan: for a while at least :)
arabella Ella: i find people tend to resist and hang on for as long as they physically can
Pila Mulligan: gate gate paragate as the Buddhists may say
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is interesting to me, that very ill people seem to rally before they die, they 'improve' for a very short time
Eliza Madrigal: yes, though I admit I was thinking of the Robert Plant song
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Pila Mulligan: :)
Mickorod Renard: grin
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've heard that before SophiaSharon...
Eliza Madrigal: like a burst of energy?
arabella Ella: yes Soph there is often that final 'flutter' of energy
SophiaSharon Larnia: something
Pila Mulligan: that was how the grandmother died with my friend and her daughter -- all night decline holding hands, then grandma perked up smiled and split
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh Pila
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: must have been the white light
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Pila Mulligan: well, I need to tend to some rl work, so bye for now everyone and thanks for a nice chat
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, take care all :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Pila Mulligan: I'll post the log after it is over
Wol Euler: bye pila, bye sophia.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila and SophiaSharon...
arabella Ella: bye Pila bye Soph
Bertram Jacobus: bye pila was nice to meet you again
Mickorod Renard: bye pila
Eliza Madrigal: Quite a topic today :)
arabella Ella: heavy stuff
Mickorod Renard: lol..missed him
Bertram Jacobus: and sophia s - all so fast ! ...
Eliza Madrigal: It is Ara, but isn't it also comforting somehow?
arabella Ella nods
arabella Ella: it is
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: in an odd way, yes.
Wol Euler: it's good to face it, I think.
Wol Euler: at least in this safe and tidy wordy way.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that's how I feel too :)
Mickorod Renard: I sometimes think of a passage in the bible that i read once
Eliza Madrigal listens
Mickorod Renard: which i have forgotten almost
Wol Euler: ah :)
Mickorod Renard: I think it was steven
Wol Euler has a Concordance.
Eliza Madrigal grins
Mickorod Renard: who debates with his thoughts
Mickorod Renard: about the struggle of his love to see God in heaven,,and yet wanting to stay alive too
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes whether he should stay or go...but decides to stay for the others...
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: and that is a strange predicament for many to think about
Wol Euler: like a boddhisatva?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, nods
Eliza Madrigal: a conscious decision
Mickorod Renard: but if you can find a balance,,either will do,,then its very comforting way to be
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: so the fear of death isn't there... but a feeling of compassion at work...
Mickorod Renard: not sure about boddhisatva Wol
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes, it seems to be the same thing... that there is a choice whether to remain for the sake of others?
Wol Euler: had to look it up, wasn't sure if I had the right word.
Wol Euler: A bodhisattva is someone who attains enlightenment (buddahood) but chooses to remain "alive" in this world to help others.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i remember seeing this when I did the scribe last
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe a distinction with regard to understandings of enlightenment... but similar
Eliza Madrigal: one considering this life, one considering myriad?
Wol Euler: true, in the Christian tradition nearly anyone can get to heaven to see God.
Bertram Jacobus: brb
Mickorod Renard: kk
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is very interesting to notice the overlaps in traditions...
Eliza Madrigal: often a matter of angle or scope?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
arabella Ella: there certainly are loads of overlaps
Wol Euler: different parts of the same elephant :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, I always fear that if I try to be good for the sole intention of seeing God then it wont happen,,
Eliza Madrigal: :))
arabella Ella: why did you both say 'seeing'?
arabella Ella: should it not be 'being with'?
Wol Euler: mmmmm, I was following Mick's lead, his report of the person's speech
Mickorod Renard: it is just the same , the way we use the word when meeting friends or family
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: you know by now I am poor at choosing the right words Ara
Wol Euler: ach.
Mickorod Renard: he he
arabella Ella: fishing for complements Mick ... he he
arabella Ella: perhaps i was being a bit too finniky
Bertram Jacobus: mick ? is it possible for you, that "the light" was / is / has been "god" ? ...
Mickorod Renard: I am lazy with english because I am english
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Mickorod Renard: I didnt associate the light with God Bert,,I have wondered,,but nothing to make me conclude that
Bertram Jacobus: does that mean, that you don't know (yet) or that you don't think so , please ?
Mickorod Renard: at that patricular time , I would say I didnt know
Bertram Jacobus: "okay" ... :-)
Mickorod Renard: is that a bit vague?
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bertram Jacobus: "because", for me, as i saw it come, my spontaneous thought was then "god is coming" (!) ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
Bertram Jacobus: no. not vague
Wol Euler: hmmm
Mickorod Renard: I was somewhat suprised..so didnt think about it
Mickorod Renard: was more happy that the pain had gone
Bertram Jacobus: i see these words from that time as expressions of my conditions at that time ...
Mickorod Renard: yes,,I can say I have seen a light at a later time
Bertram Jacobus: but can be enough also (!) that all was so wonderful, positive ...
Bertram Jacobus: it doesn't need names or words i think
Bertram Jacobus: or could have so many
Mickorod Renard: yes, it was at the later time that I felt I could not deny my belief
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: So interesting.. so similar and yet different extrapolations, maybe language at play... Thank you both, btw, for sharing these things
Bertram Jacobus: belief ... so heavy to understand for me ! ...
Mickorod Renard: grin
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Wol Euler smiles. Not just you :)
Mickorod Renard: its my pleasure Eliza
Wol Euler: yes, thank you Mick and Eliza.
Bertram Jacobus: and i'm thankful, too, very often, for this community ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night, day everyone!
Wol Euler: 'night yakuzza
Mickorod Renard: me too Bert,,thanks
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
arabella Ella: me too
Mickorod Renard: nite Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: yes, me too certainly indeed indeed
Bertram Jacobus: fast again - for the recorded stuff : nite yaku ! ;-)
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yaku is too quiet these days
Eliza Madrigal: We talked a little this morning, but in voice... then I had to leave
Mickorod Renard: wow,,nice
arabella Ella: cool
Bertram Jacobus: but yesterday i guess , one day , suddenly he wrote a looooot (!)
Mickorod Renard: I have my skype sorted now
Eliza Madrigal: He likes voice far more I think, but sometimes yes he'll ride a typing wave too :)
Mickorod Renard: yes? wow
Eliza Madrigal: Do you Mick? I'm still a little uncomfortable with voice, but am adjusting
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: I don't like it, I find the sound quality appallingly poor on average
Mickorod Renard: I feel a right idiot on voice
Wol Euler: and I miss the ability to check back in the history window
Eliza Madrigal: yes, agree
Bertram Jacobus: also in fl wol ? :o)
Mickorod Renard: but I will use voice in Gaya's
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes I'd love a chat log for fl
Eliza Madrigal: though I think not good for relationships
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Wol Euler: I dislike telephones in RL, if that helps :)
arabella Ella: I dont mind voice at all myself
Eliza Madrigal: ME TOO!
Bertram Jacobus: lol eliza - really ? that sounds ... dangerous ... infected ? ... ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Bertram Jacobus: that with the chat log
Bertram Jacobus: hehe :o)
Wol Euler: lessee, chat logs, profiles, TPing, IMing ...
Eliza Madrigal: we've talked a little about that too... how a profile would be useful in RL
Mickorod Renard: my hearing isnt so good either,,so chat is better for me
Wol Euler: inventories!
Eliza Madrigal: Ooooooh Aaaaahhh
Wol Euler: what is this crap about having to fill your pockets?
arabella Ella: the difference with voice is that there tend to be less threads going at the same time
Eliza Madrigal: yes, true... many threads at once makes sense to me though
arabella Ella: :)
Eliza Madrigal: how I think...hahah
Mickorod Renard: true,,I was thinking if stim does wok in voice that the end of me saying anything
Mickorod Renard: I wud be too disruptive
Eliza Madrigal: No, I think we'll acclimate Mick, if that's what he'd like
Mickorod Renard: mmmmm
Eliza Madrigal: Well, maybe... we'll see
Mickorod Renard: I am sorry I missed gaya's the other night,,but was away
Eliza Madrigal: I missed too
Bertram Jacobus: late again ! i'll leave. ty for the very nice meeting
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Bertram
Wol Euler: bye bertram, take care
arabella Ella: there were only four of us there last sunday at gaya's
Mickorod Renard: cos I wanted to test it out,,and get over my nerves
arabella Ella: bye Bert
Mickorod Renard: bye bert
Mickorod Renard: go well
arabella Ella: it is easy to adjust to voice with only a few people present
Bertram Jacobus: bye all again and ty . may all beings ... (be happy) :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
arabella Ella: may u be happy too
Mickorod Renard: how do we get all the skype addresses?
arabella Ella: stop worrying Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: or is there just one mother skype?
arabella Ella: it will all take care of itself
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah Mother Skype
arabella Ella: hehe
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Mickorod Renard: or Daddy skype
Eliza Madrigal shakes head.... I love having the transcripts after Stim teaches.... read them over a few times
Mickorod Renard: mustnt be gendering
Mickorod Renard: I have never read stims sessions
arabella Ella: dont worry Mick as Gaya will take care of addresses and of Mother Skype :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
arabella Ella: all you need to do is listen and only to speak when you feel comfortable about it
Mickorod Renard: I have so many things on the go , I cannot find space to look them all up
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I probably read too much
arabella Ella: i would love to read more
Mickorod Renard: I love reading
Wol Euler: no such thing, Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Any reasonable person would tell me to stop...sometimes it is the same thing though, over and over... Hmmm
Mickorod Renard: I only have 2 weeks hols left too
arabella Ella: must go now nite everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Ara
Wol Euler: 'night ara, take care.
Mickorod Renard: nite Ara
Eliza Madrigal: quite a conversation we had today... still thinking. So much to consider
Mickorod Renard: I do worry about being so open
Wol Euler: mmmm?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: yes sometimes me too, but I try to trust that it can be good to be open ... helpful to others? I know it helps me to hear others' experiences, and good to break down a kind of mystique perhaps?
Mickorod Renard: well, I know many would think I am maybe a lil wierd if I were to say these things all the time
Wol Euler: perhaps that shows how shallow and limited they are?
Wol Euler: (just exploring possibilities :)
Mickorod Renard: and strangely, I am comming to the opinion that maybe I HAVE EXPERIENCED QUITE ALOT IN MY LIFE
Eliza Madrigal: ahh, yes incurious
Mickorod Renard: OOPS..CAPS LOCK
Eliza Madrigal laughs... I enjoy that as much as typos
Mickorod Renard: I always thought everyone had the same experiences
Eliza Madrigal: many do, which is why they should be talked about?
Mickorod Renard: but seems not
Mickorod Renard: perhaps
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I must go
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick :)
Wol Euler: bye mick, take care.
Mickorod Renard: thanks for tonite..sleep well
Wol Euler: you too :)
Eliza Madrigal: You too :) Nite
Eliza Madrigal: I like your hair, Wol. I typed that out a few times... but stopped because the conversation got deeper :)
Wol Euler: I want to sit for a while at Adams' mini-retreat place, Eliza.
Wol Euler: ah, thank you :)
Wol Euler: it's new, a great and strange shop :)
Wol Euler: colour change, flexy, scripted and only $199
Eliza Madrigal: Wow
Eliza Madrigal: A good deal
Eliza Madrigal: yes the retreat sounds nice
Wol Euler: shall we?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, perfect!
Wol Euler waves goodbye to the log readers.
Eliza Madrigal waves bye for now