2009.08.27 07:00 - I Try to be Persistent

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, filling in for Genesis while on retreat. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal. :)

Yakuzza, Gaya, and I talked about workshops, meditation, and learning methods/opportunities.  :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: you took over some sessions this week
Eliza Madrigal: Just this one and mine yesterday :)
Eliza Madrigal: Normally I can't make the 1Pm, but had appoinments... that was a treat :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: have you visited reflection freenode´s events on thothica or open habitat ?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I've been there a few times I think...
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes they blend in :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am always sad that they are in the middle of the night for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: just got the note for the delphi thats why i had that in mind
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: yes, usually they fall around the time we have sittings at zen retreat too. I like the way he handles discussions though, very balanced :)
Eliza Madrigal: I enjoyed the time discussion at thothica we saw each other at
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i like him, did you know that he´s also from fl ?
Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was more interesting reading it over afterward
Eliza Madrigal: No, I didn't know
Eliza Madrigal: I better be careful. hahha
Yakuzza Lethecus: rofl
Eliza Madrigal: knock, knock "You know that thing you said..." hahah
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s even a good thing for me that most ofthe people around here are so far away
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i would never be here if people from the local town would be around :P
Eliza Madrigal: I felt that way for a while... kind of a safety zone
Yakuzza Lethecus: right
Eliza Madrigal: but now I think I'd love to walk down the street and have tea with most PaBers :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not like pema travelling around the world all the time so for me the atlantic is still a big border :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... me too
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean I wouldn't like to... as my kids get older especially
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i am curious how it will work out with pab retreat next year
Eliza Madrigal: After we talked about the idea, I called my cousins to see if they'd begun to plan the Germany vacation they've been talking about for a while
Eliza Madrigal: see if I might have travelling companions :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe it´s even eastcoast
Yakuzza Lethecus: who knows
Yakuzza Lethecus: there are still many possibilites
Eliza Madrigal: well that would be a dream... no hurt turning over options though :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: do you visit events like that ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just like to sit down and read there like i do around here
Eliza Madrigal: I've not been to this one yet. I attend so many workshops that I'm almost hesitant to find anything else I like :)
Eliza Madrigal: This sounds great though
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i can imagine what you mean
Yakuzza Lethecus: i also reduced my sl time
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the way what zen retreat ? :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: pila´s ?
Eliza Madrigal: It is an outdoor meditation area.. not Pila's...
Eliza Madrigal: every night except for Saturdays, at 6SLT,there is a 20 minute group sitting
Eliza Madrigal: I ing the bell a few times a week... nice thing to do before bed :)
Eliza Madrigal: *ring
Eliza Madrigal: and I think helpful for some to get into a routine
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
Eliza Madrigal: This seminar you gave me the card to...
Eliza Madrigal: have you been?
Yakuzza Lethecus: twice
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting but only vic seems to be the more competent person in the round
Eliza Madrigal: Is it at the level of citizen scientists or...?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i think so it´s not that abstract
Yakuzza Lethecus: even if i would love to hear more abstract stuff :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: just to know what i should google or wikipedia for
Eliza Madrigal: Are you going to try to attend some of the phenomenology events upcoming?

Gaya arrives in a great new av...

Phenomenology, Ways of Knowing, Philosophy, Meditation...

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gaya
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :))
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow
Yakuzza Lethecus: phenomenology where ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Can I lower the fountain?
Eliza Madrigal: please!
Eliza Madrigal: I am not sure how...keep meaning to ask
Gaya Ethaniel: I will forward the instructions Eliza by email :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: The phenomenology workshop has been on break, but Pema has been making some connections so in the next few months there should be events
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah that phenomenology, it didn´t seem as much philosophical when i came there as i thought it might be in the first place
Yakuzza Lethecus: i still don´t know more about that philosophical direction and edmund husserl so far
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I think it will go back in that direction... but with experiements/explorations still being important
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, it´s different from what i thought it would be
Yakuzza Lethecus: because i thought it wouldn´t be that practical :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i was there before
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think it is impossible if not practical, at some level... at first it was not accessible to me...
Yakuzza Lethecus: it still isn´t for me
Eliza Madrigal: but after a while some of the ideas began to dawn and now very interesting
Eliza Madrigal: takes time maybe :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am also still curious so i don´t care and attend
Yakuzza Lethecus: if i am not asleep that late
Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah ... I haven't attended but I think Pema emphasises practical experiments.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and the other speakers might have other ways of explaining which could be more accessible to one person, etc
Gaya Ethaniel: When does it start again? Somehow thought it has finished for now.
Eliza Madrigal: yes, but look for notices... a few weeks I think...
Yakuzza Lethecus: how was gilles seminar yesterday gaya ?
Gaya Ethaniel: It's on a summer break?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, still
Gaya Ethaniel: It will start again ... sometime in September, not sure exactly when yet.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i dunno how i could possibly making myself reading kant in an easy way :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i love to hear lectures as mp3´s and h listened to some of for example those audiolectures from bercley
Gaya Ethaniel: Kant ... not sure if we are going to do Kant again so soon after :P
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... Stim is so clear.
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i haven´t found audiobooks of kant so far :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: Stim is so clear ?
Eliza Madrigal: The berkely lectures?
Eliza Madrigal: Or is this another?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, he also did a coursethere ?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh...yes :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yakuzza you mean youtube videos from Berkely?
Yakuzza Lethecus: last thing i listened to was social psychology by serena chen
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, neat :))
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I've listened to a few of Stim's so far. A lot to take in ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: stim also got a podcast there ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: link please :)
Gaya Ethaniel: They are about meditation etc. Yakuzza.
Eliza Madrigal: He records his Monestary teachings... one moment
Eliza Madrigal: http://berkeleymonastery.org/steven/fall07.asp
Eliza Madrigal: It really is contemplative though Yakuzza, moreso than philosophy
Eliza Madrigal: a real emphasis on meditative practice, for instance
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm going to attend RL meditation classes soon. My husband wants to learn :D
Eliza Madrigal: That's great, Gaya... to do that together :)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: What type of classes, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: Definitely :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know the whole structure but it starts with Shamata.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you've already found a place with an outline
Gaya Ethaniel: mhm :)
Gaya Ethaniel: There are tons in London anyway.
Eliza Madrigal starts to pack
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Gaya Ethaniel: :D
Gaya Ethaniel: You can go see Stim Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: We have lots of yoga focused centers here in FL
Gaya Ethaniel turns green with envy.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
Eliza Madrigal: Cali is a bit far...sigh...am all the way down at the bottom of FL...hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: That is true ... US is a huge country. I forget that sometimes.
Eliza Madrigal nods.... here to NY, easy... but to Cali, not so much :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Eliza Madrigal: I've been trying on various places though...
Gaya Ethaniel: And how have you found them so far?
Eliza Madrigal: still haven't seemed to find a schedule that is working from one week into the next.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok. It can be tough to schedule stuff in I'm sure for a busy monther like yourself.
Eliza Madrigal: I like a little Dzogchen place, but has been odd to get everything lined up with the kids in time to go, yes
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Eliza Madrigal: Thank Goodness for SL :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods nods :)
Eliza Madrigal: And books :)
Gaya Ethaniel: and Internet :)
Eliza Madrigal: And the internet in general, yes!
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Gaya Ethaniel: Someone said Internet is like Library of Alexandria. Partially right :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hopefully it doesn´t burn down that fast
Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
Eliza Madrigal: It is certainly true that it changes the 'way' we learn
Eliza Madrigal: Meaning, everything being open, we have to rely on our own discernment more maybe...
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Yakuzza Lethecus: my focus is on finding places to hear new stuff and then elaborate on that
Gaya Ethaniel: I have to run to post some packages ... nice to see you again.
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a lovely day :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i don´t learn that much in sl but there are many hinds and inspirations
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you Gaya :) have a great day :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye gaya
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see... SL for you is where you get pointers where to look?
Yakuzza Lethecus: right
Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i am not very skilled in philosophy
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s interesting, i attend sessions i try to stay in a postive contact
Yakuzza Lethecus: i listen to audio lectures about phil/psych
Eliza Madrigal: My feeling is that if you find something that interesting, there is a reason why, even when it seems beyond you
Eliza Madrigal: you are absorbing and benefitting somehow
Yakuzza Lethecus: here it´s easier to stay in a postive contact to topics like meditation because you don´t have to pay money

The people are curious out of themselves...

Yakuzza Lethecus: the people are curious out of themselves
Yakuzza Lethecus: so it´s not like back in school where you had to be focused on a better grade
Eliza Madrigal: That's one way of looking at it, sure
Yakuzza Lethecus: here you can be focused on truth
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I think so often we try to escape from what makes us uncomfortable...
Eliza Madrigal: especially our own limitations
Eliza Madrigal: meditation for me, is the way of facing that and beginning to see through those limitations
Eliza Madrigal: and can take it anywhere :)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Funnily enough, lots of other things come along with it... relaxing about learning other things, denser things, for instance... which seems to open 'learning' retention...
Eliza Madrigal: there are things I'd never begin to understand without that component
Eliza Madrigal: I admire, btw, that you are so honest with yourself re limitations, though sometimes I think a bit tough on yourself too :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: true, i feel that i sometimes have to let go to reflect more about what i am doing
Yakuzza Lethecus: and why
Yakuzza Lethecus: and that thinking that i have put pressure on ,,progress" inhabits progress to happen somehow
Yakuzza Lethecus: at least sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: maybe appreciating what you noticed already is a way through that too?
Eliza Madrigal: appreciating in the sense Pema talks about... just noticing?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i read that
Yakuzza Lethecus: or even very interesting was 5 minutes ago when i heard stim talking about practice in the last lecture he gave :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: remembers me of the ,,homework"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: in wok
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: Have you ever had the experience of thinking you absolutely do not understand something, and then hear yourself explain it to someone else?
Yakuzza Lethecus: and even here i think some people asked ,,do you practice?"
Eliza Madrigal: yes, it seems very important... more important than any amount of study, though that seems counterintuitive
Eliza Madrigal: think of all we have drilled into us but never activate in life... never finds context, etc.
Yakuzza Lethecus: not exactly that feeling but i am aware of falling into the same schemas again and again

Appreciating Math? Finding pleasure in one's work...

Yakuzza Lethecus: so i have topics like math or what ever where i just associate the same negative thoughts with over and over
Eliza Madrigal nods...I certainly understand that...
Yakuzza Lethecus: and i believe it´s just that i often can´t change something because somehow i just don´t think on topic but dig in memories
Eliza Madrigal: The Math teacher my daughter has this year, failed Algebra twice and then Algebra 2 once...
Eliza Madrigal: And then had a big shift
Eliza Madrigal: Now he is in love with Math, obviously... his life work :)
Eliza Madrigal: I told her to have him call me and give me his secret :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: I like the *idea* of math, giggles
Yakuzza Lethecus: but my point is that i am often just not on topic that i have just negative triggers and emotions about a specific topic that totally inhabits me from seeing it´s essence
Eliza Madrigal holds herself back from saying how much meditation might help with that ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: math is only a very important example in my case because there are so many emotions and even live changing elements related to that
Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t attend college because i failed in math
Eliza Madrigal nods yes I do hear you... not as uncommon as you might think
Eliza Madrigal: Ever think about taking a class now, just to overcome the sense of frustration about it?
Eliza Madrigal: I think about going back to school all the time
Yakuzza Lethecus: fear of failing and then there is a time when you have to make money so i just did job training and became a metal worke
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: Do you find joy in your work, Ya?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think the good think right now is to reflect the issue
Yakuzza Lethecus: it depends, coworkers are fine
Eliza Madrigal: That's good
Yakuzza Lethecus: job is not very interesting, working hours are great
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: 6am in the morning up to 2:15 pm
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, many do not have that
Eliza Madrigal: excellent... bakery hours :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: obviously payment could be better :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i have plenty of time when i come home
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i try to find a way to just integreat implicit contact with new topics in my everyday life
Yakuzza Lethecus: up
Yakuzza Lethecus: s
Yakuzza Lethecus: did´t even pay attention to the 90 sec
Eliza Madrigal: :) You don't have to admit that
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: I think that's great... you seem to have a good balance actually
Eliza Madrigal: you work hard and then fill your time with philosopy and discussions
Eliza Madrigal: Not a bad way to go :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to get the hard" part out of that
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, good point
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i try to be persistent
Eliza Madrigal: My 'practice' lately is trying to find joy in everything...
Eliza Madrigal: my life is full of 'mundane' tasks
Eliza Madrigal: and if I can enjoy them, wow... my life is full of joy :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: right :)
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean there aren't things I'd love to see happen
Yakuzza Lethecus: i elaborate on that, i think happyness is more an decision then something that comes to us by our environment
Yakuzza Lethecus: but that doesn´t work always :)
Eliza Madrigal: appreciation :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: right :)
Eliza Madrigal: Even most of our problems are often the results of priveleges
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, it was a nice cht again
Eliza Madrigal: Yes you too :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya at 1 or whenever :)
Eliza Madrigal: Prob. not today... that time is more difficult now. I do try though. :)) Have a nice evening :)