2009.08.27 07:00 - I Try to be Persistent

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, filling in for Genesis while on retreat. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal. :)

    Yakuzza, Gaya, and I talked about workshops, meditation, and learning methods/opportunities.  :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you took over some sessions this week
    Eliza Madrigal: Just this one and mine yesterday :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Normally I can't make the 1Pm, but had appoinments... that was a treat :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: have you visited reflection freenode´s events on thothica or open habitat ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I've been there a few times I think...
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes they blend in :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am always sad that they are in the middle of the night for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just got the note for the delphi thats why i had that in mind
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, usually they fall around the time we have sittings at zen retreat too. I like the way he handles discussions though, very balanced :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I enjoyed the time discussion at thothica we saw each other at
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i like him, did you know that he´s also from fl ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was more interesting reading it over afterward
    Eliza Madrigal: No, I didn't know
    Eliza Madrigal: I better be careful. hahha
    Yakuzza Lethecus: rofl
    Eliza Madrigal: knock, knock "You know that thing you said..." hahah
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s even a good thing for me that most ofthe people around here are so far away
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i would never be here if people from the local town would be around :P
    Eliza Madrigal: I felt that way for a while... kind of a safety zone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right
    Eliza Madrigal: but now I think I'd love to walk down the street and have tea with most PaBers :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not like pema travelling around the world all the time so for me the atlantic is still a big border :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods... me too
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean I wouldn't like to... as my kids get older especially
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i am curious how it will work out with pab retreat next year
    Eliza Madrigal: After we talked about the idea, I called my cousins to see if they'd begun to plan the Germany vacation they've been talking about for a while
    Eliza Madrigal: see if I might have travelling companions :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe it´s even eastcoast
    Yakuzza Lethecus: who knows
    Yakuzza Lethecus: there are still many possibilites
    Eliza Madrigal: well that would be a dream... no hurt turning over options though :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: do you visit events like that ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just like to sit down and read there like i do around here
    Eliza Madrigal: I've not been to this one yet. I attend so many workshops that I'm almost hesitant to find anything else I like :)
    Eliza Madrigal: This sounds great though
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i can imagine what you mean
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i also reduced my sl time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the way what zen retreat ? :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pila´s ?
    Eliza Madrigal: It is an outdoor meditation area.. not Pila's...
    Eliza Madrigal: every night except for Saturdays, at 6SLT,there is a 20 minute group sitting
    Eliza Madrigal: I ing the bell a few times a week... nice thing to do before bed :)
    Eliza Madrigal: *ring
    Eliza Madrigal: and I think helpful for some to get into a routine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: This seminar you gave me the card to...
    Eliza Madrigal: have you been?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: twice
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting but only vic seems to be the more competent person in the round
    Eliza Madrigal: Is it at the level of citizen scientists or...?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i think so it´s not that abstract
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even if i would love to hear more abstract stuff :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just to know what i should google or wikipedia for
    Eliza Madrigal: Are you going to try to attend some of the phenomenology events upcoming?

    Gaya arrives in a great new av...

    Phenomenology, Ways of Knowing, Philosophy, Meditation...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gaya
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: phenomenology where ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Can I lower the fountain?
    Eliza Madrigal: please!
    Eliza Madrigal: I am not sure how...keep meaning to ask
    Gaya Ethaniel: I will forward the instructions Eliza by email :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The phenomenology workshop has been on break, but Pema has been making some connections so in the next few months there should be events
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah that phenomenology, it didn´t seem as much philosophical when i came there as i thought it might be in the first place
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i still don´t know more about that philosophical direction and edmund husserl so far
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I think it will go back in that direction... but with experiements/explorations still being important
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, it´s different from what i thought it would be
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i thought it wouldn´t be that practical :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i was there before
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I think it is impossible if not practical, at some level... at first it was not accessible to me...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it still isn´t for me
    Eliza Madrigal: but after a while some of the ideas began to dawn and now very interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: takes time maybe :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am also still curious so i don´t care and attend
    Yakuzza Lethecus: if i am not asleep that late
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah ... I haven't attended but I think Pema emphasises practical experiments.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and the other speakers might have other ways of explaining which could be more accessible to one person, etc
    Gaya Ethaniel: When does it start again? Somehow thought it has finished for now.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, but look for notices... a few weeks I think...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how was gilles seminar yesterday gaya ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's on a summer break?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, still
    Gaya Ethaniel: It will start again ... sometime in September, not sure exactly when yet.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i dunno how i could possibly making myself reading kant in an easy way :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i love to hear lectures as mp3´s and h listened to some of for example those audiolectures from bercley
    Gaya Ethaniel: Kant ... not sure if we are going to do Kant again so soon after :P
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... Stim is so clear.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i haven´t found audiobooks of kant so far :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Stim is so clear ?
    Eliza Madrigal: The berkely lectures?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or is this another?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, he also did a coursethere ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh...yes :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yakuzza you mean youtube videos from Berkely?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: last thing i listened to was social psychology by serena chen
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, neat :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've listened to a few of Stim's so far. A lot to take in ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stim also got a podcast there ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: link please :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: They are about meditation etc. Yakuzza.
    Eliza Madrigal: He records his Monestary teachings... one moment
    Eliza Madrigal: http://berkeleymonastery.org/steven/fall07.asp
    Eliza Madrigal: It really is contemplative though Yakuzza, moreso than philosophy
    Eliza Madrigal: a real emphasis on meditative practice, for instance
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm going to attend RL meditation classes soon. My husband wants to learn :D
    Eliza Madrigal: That's great, Gaya... to do that together :)
    Eliza Madrigal: What type of classes, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Definitely :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know the whole structure but it starts with Shamata.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you've already found a place with an outline
    Gaya Ethaniel: mhm :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: There are tons in London anyway.
    Eliza Madrigal starts to pack
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :D
    Gaya Ethaniel: You can go see Stim Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: We have lots of yoga focused centers here in FL
    Gaya Ethaniel turns green with envy.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Cali is a bit far...sigh...am all the way down at the bottom of FL...hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: That is true ... US is a huge country. I forget that sometimes.
    Eliza Madrigal nods.... here to NY, easy... but to Cali, not so much :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been trying on various places though...
    Gaya Ethaniel: And how have you found them so far?
    Eliza Madrigal: still haven't seemed to find a schedule that is working from one week into the next.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok. It can be tough to schedule stuff in I'm sure for a busy monther like yourself.
    Eliza Madrigal: I like a little Dzogchen place, but has been odd to get everything lined up with the kids in time to go, yes
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank Goodness for SL :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods nods :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And books :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: and Internet :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And the internet in general, yes!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: Someone said Internet is like Library of Alexandria. Partially right :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hopefully it doesn´t burn down that fast
    Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: It is certainly true that it changes the 'way' we learn
    Eliza Madrigal: Meaning, everything being open, we have to rely on our own discernment more maybe...
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my focus is on finding places to hear new stuff and then elaborate on that
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have to run to post some packages ... nice to see you again.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have a lovely day :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i don´t learn that much in sl but there are many hinds and inspirations
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you Gaya :) have a great day :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye gaya
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see... SL for you is where you get pointers where to look?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i am not very skilled in philosophy
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s interesting, i attend sessions i try to stay in a postive contact
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i listen to audio lectures about phil/psych
    Eliza Madrigal: My feeling is that if you find something that interesting, there is a reason why, even when it seems beyond you
    Eliza Madrigal: you are absorbing and benefitting somehow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: here it´s easier to stay in a postive contact to topics like meditation because you don´t have to pay money

    The people are curious out of themselves...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: the people are curious out of themselves
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so it´s not like back in school where you had to be focused on a better grade
    Eliza Madrigal: That's one way of looking at it, sure
    Yakuzza Lethecus: here you can be focused on truth
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so often we try to escape from what makes us uncomfortable...
    Eliza Madrigal: especially our own limitations
    Eliza Madrigal: meditation for me, is the way of facing that and beginning to see through those limitations
    Eliza Madrigal: and can take it anywhere :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Funnily enough, lots of other things come along with it... relaxing about learning other things, denser things, for instance... which seems to open 'learning' retention...
    Eliza Madrigal: there are things I'd never begin to understand without that component
    Eliza Madrigal: I admire, btw, that you are so honest with yourself re limitations, though sometimes I think a bit tough on yourself too :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: true, i feel that i sometimes have to let go to reflect more about what i am doing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and why
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and that thinking that i have put pressure on ,,progress" inhabits progress to happen somehow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe appreciating what you noticed already is a way through that too?
    Eliza Madrigal: appreciating in the sense Pema talks about... just noticing?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i read that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or even very interesting was 5 minutes ago when i heard stim talking about practice in the last lecture he gave :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: remembers me of the ,,homework"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in wok
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Have you ever had the experience of thinking you absolutely do not understand something, and then hear yourself explain it to someone else?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and even here i think some people asked ,,do you practice?"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, it seems very important... more important than any amount of study, though that seems counterintuitive
    Eliza Madrigal: think of all we have drilled into us but never activate in life... never finds context, etc.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not exactly that feeling but i am aware of falling into the same schemas again and again

    Appreciating Math? Finding pleasure in one's work...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i have topics like math or what ever where i just associate the same negative thoughts with over and over
    Eliza Madrigal nods...I certainly understand that...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and i believe it´s just that i often can´t change something because somehow i just don´t think on topic but dig in memories
    Eliza Madrigal: The Math teacher my daughter has this year, failed Algebra twice and then Algebra 2 once...
    Eliza Madrigal: And then had a big shift
    Eliza Madrigal: Now he is in love with Math, obviously... his life work :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I told her to have him call me and give me his secret :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the *idea* of math, giggles
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but my point is that i am often just not on topic that i have just negative triggers and emotions about a specific topic that totally inhabits me from seeing it´s essence
    Eliza Madrigal holds herself back from saying how much meditation might help with that ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: math is only a very important example in my case because there are so many emotions and even live changing elements related to that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t attend college because i failed in math
    Eliza Madrigal nods yes I do hear you... not as uncommon as you might think
    Eliza Madrigal: Ever think about taking a class now, just to overcome the sense of frustration about it?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think about going back to school all the time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fear of failing and then there is a time when you have to make money so i just did job training and became a metal worke
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you find joy in your work, Ya?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think the good think right now is to reflect the issue
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it depends, coworkers are fine
    Eliza Madrigal: That's good
    Yakuzza Lethecus: job is not very interesting, working hours are great
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 6am in the morning up to 2:15 pm
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, many do not have that
    Eliza Madrigal: excellent... bakery hours :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: obviously payment could be better :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i have plenty of time when i come home
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i try to find a way to just integreat implicit contact with new topics in my everyday life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: up
    Yakuzza Lethecus: s
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did´t even pay attention to the 90 sec
    Eliza Madrigal: :) You don't have to admit that
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that's great... you seem to have a good balance actually
    Eliza Madrigal: you work hard and then fill your time with philosopy and discussions
    Eliza Madrigal: Not a bad way to go :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to get the hard" part out of that
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, good point
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i try to be persistent
    Eliza Madrigal: My 'practice' lately is trying to find joy in everything...
    Eliza Madrigal: my life is full of 'mundane' tasks
    Eliza Madrigal: and if I can enjoy them, wow... my life is full of joy :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right :)
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean there aren't things I'd love to see happen
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i elaborate on that, i think happyness is more an decision then something that comes to us by our environment
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that doesn´t work always :)
    Eliza Madrigal: appreciation :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Even most of our problems are often the results of priveleges
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, it was a nice cht again
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes you too :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: cya at 1 or whenever :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Prob. not today... that time is more difficult now. I do try though. :)) Have a nice evening :)

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