The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello ParadiseIt took me a while to work my way through all the messages on my screen . . . .
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve ..pila :))
stevenaia Michinaga: h Pia
stevenaia Michinaga: Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise and Steve
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: waiting with anticipation for the retreat reports
Paradise Tennant: me too :)
Pila Mulligan: hello Pemasan
Paradise Tennant: hiya pema :) welcome back
Pila Mulligan: we are all ears :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pema are you back East?
Pila Mulligan: ... must be busy
Pema Pera: Hi Steve, Pila, Paradise!Pila asked a short question requiring a long answer . . .
Pila Mulligan: hi Pema
Pema Pera: And hi Eliza!
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
Paradise Tennant: hiya eliza :)
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
Pema Pera: Sorry, I had to work my way through a blizzard of note cards and notices . . . not having logged into SL for almost a week (gasp!)
Pila Mulligan: I bet
Pema Pera: Steve, I'm still in Berkeley
Pema Pera: will fly back East on Monday morning
Paradise Tennant: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Refreshed I'm sure :)
Pila Mulligan: did people at the retreat mostly use each ohters SL names or RL names?
Pema Pera: Oh, the whole experience was very refreshing, Eliza, we had a wonderful place, and a very pleasant atmosphere throughout
Pema Pera: Pila: a mix
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: Doug and Eos already have mentioned how good the food was
Pema Pera: about fifty/fifty, I think
Eliza Madrigal: Really? I'd think the SL names would drop in that context.. Hmm
Pema Pera: yes, the food was great and plentiful
Paradise Tennant: hmm find it is how you know the person .. and often comes to mind first .. when you are talking :))
Paradise Tennant: sounds great
Pema Pera: Given that we know each other so well and long by our SL names, it almost feels unnatural sometimes to use RL names, Eliza
Pila Mulligan: while it's warm, can you answer this question that has been gnawing at me for months: what is the main benefit of being in person vis a vis SL sessions?Another simple question, which I trained to answer as briefly as I could.
Pema Pera: yes, Paradise :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pema Pera: oh, many Pila!
Pema Pera: Where to start . . . .
Pila Mulligan: #1 :)
Pema Pera: body language, energy, physical presence, for one
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pema Pera: then there is the speed of communication, using voice and intonation and gestures
Pema Pera: it is not surprising that it is much more direct
Pema Pera: the one thing that is surprising to me is how well SL communication works even though so much is stripped off
Pema Pera: also, there is the eating and drinking of *real* food, breaking bread together, so to speak
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: and then there are the walks, different from SL walks :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
Pema Pera: the sunlight filtereing through the leaves, the jays and dogs barking in the background
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pema Pera: the snakes (!)
Paradise Tennant: yikes
Pema Pera: the many ants that come in when you leave something overnight
Pila Mulligan: eek
Pila Mulligan: real world stuff then
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: we learned quickly about that one (Genesis heroically cleaned up the kitchen, as she was the first one discovering the ants covering everything (while it was still dark)
Pila Mulligan: yuk
Pema Pera: where am I now, #8?
Pila Mulligan: maybe :)
Pila Mulligan: what were the favorite practices?
Pema Pera: but the overall feeling was one of amazing harmony, more even than I had expected
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely, Pema
Pila Mulligan: already frineds, maybe
Pema Pera: somehow in some strange way, PaB discourages the usual extremes of those who want to push themselves too much to the fore, and those who want to be led -- instead, everybody was quite balanced
Pema Pera: I've rarely if ever seen that in any group I've been part of
Pema Pera: (I too sometimes didn't talk at all for almost an hour, believe it or not)
Pema Pera: ((while others did talk, I need to add :-))
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: (note: it was also one of the definingly unique charcateristics of the anti-nuclear groups in the 70s' -- but I rearely see it also)
Pema Pera: as for the practices, Pila, mostly APA(AP), but only half that -- the other half were new practices
Pila Mulligan: what kind?Eliza helped me out by switching the questions to Corvi :-)
Pila Mulligan: the new ones?
Pema Pera: hmmm, would take quite long to type that all out here, while making it understandable . . .
--BELL--
Pema Pera: roughly speaking: we tried to switch for an every-day perspective to more of a Being perspective (which is not really a perspective), in five steps:
Pema Pera: at each step we appreciated something, and then dropped or de-emphasized that in the next step
Pema Pera: we started with personal history
Pema Pera: then personality
Pema Pera: then just being alive as a human being
Pema Pera: then a focus on time, while dropping the emphasis on being a being
Pema Pera: and finally a focus on Being
Pila Mulligan: well, there's an understandable description, thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: nice sumary
Pema Pera: So the heart sutra, say, talks about form and emptiness
Pema Pera: or relative and absolute
Pema Pera: in that way there are two steps: normal world and Being
Pema Pera: my use of the notion of phenomena, or appearances gives a stepping stone,
Pema Pera: making it three steps: normal notions, phenomena, Being
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Corvi
Pila Mulligan: hey Corvi :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Corvi! :))
Pema Pera: and the one above made it five or six steps
Pema Pera: Hi Corvi!
Paradise Tennant: hiya corvi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Eliza, Paradise, Pema, Pila, and Steve!
Pila Mulligan: welcome back
Pema Pera: I've been trying to answer a shower of questions about our retreat (^_^)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins
Pila Mulligan: tell us everything
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Pila Mulligan: quickly :)
Pema Pera: are you back home by now?
Pema Pera: hehehe, Pila
Pema Pera: okay, since you asked for it:
Pema Pera: Being IS
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses a pillow at Pema.
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: a pillow fight is one of the things we missed; should reserve that for the next retreat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Eliza Madrigal patiently waits for Corvi's typed report..heheI was glad to hear that; during the retreat I had not noticed any discomfort from Corvi during the sitting periods, so I had assumed that she, too, was quite used to it. Another positive influence of the group's energy!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahah
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's cold there.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and..
Pila Mulligan: really?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the bark is pretty
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pema Pera: "when the van rolled onto the retreat grounds, my thoughts went out to . . . "
Pila Mulligan: cold at night, or also daytime?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rowan :)
Pema Pera: Good seeing you again, Rowan!
Pila Mulligan: hi Rowan
Paradise Tennant: hiya rowan gtsy :)
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: Hi everyone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: cold alot of the time..Hi Rowan...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and Pema was that meant to be a prompt?
Pema Pera: and hot a lot of the time too, the last two days
Pila Mulligan: hi Fox
Pema Pera: almost too hot to go out of the buildings we were in
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox :))
Pema Pera: Hi there Fox!
Fox Monacular: hi everyone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.that was true too.
Eliza Madrigal: Surprising for this time of year
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi fox
Pila Mulligan: Doug or Eos or Storm had mentioned the heat part
Pila Mulligan: in some message
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..I was shocked by the cold when I got there.
Paradise Tennant: hiya fox :)
Fox Monacular: Hi
Fox Monacular: so I guess you're talking about the retreat?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's hard to know how to talk about the meaty bits.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: even the vegetarian bits (we had a choice of two meals)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses another pillow at the silly Pema.
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: a lot safer I feel here in SL now, compared to RL!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Paradise Tennant: ;))
Corvuscorva Nightfire: those are heavy pillows at the retreat place..we need lighter ones.
Pema Pera: we had los of
Corvuscorva Nightfire: for more tossing.
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: *lots
Pila Mulligan: so seating was on the floor?
Pila Mulligan: on cushions
Pema Pera: both
--BELL--
Pema Pera: a mix typically, depending on people's preferences
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we sat in circles on cushions and couches and chairs.
Pila Mulligan: Doug also referrred to the weightier aspect of rl sitting :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was surprised by just how much I like sitting very still and quiet and thinking about almost nothing.
Fox Monacular: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or everything
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or whatevver.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know many of PaB members have a long history of sitting, but I don't.
Pema Pera: (we did not have 90 seconds breaks in RL)Corvi talked about some of her experiences during the retreat.
Pema Pera: :)
Rowan Masala: really? why not?
Pema Pera: it was surprisingly natural to weave practice periods and discussion periods
Pema Pera: sometimes 12 minutes practice, half an hour discussion, 6 minutes practice, etc
Pema Pera: Rowan, it would have been rather artificial to have a clock in RL
Corvuscorva Nightfire: We did have I phone chimes.
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Rowan Masala smiles
Pema Pera: we used them for the several-minutes practice periods
Pema Pera: it was great to share our experiences after each sitting period
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think the problem with timing a sitting is that it ends.
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Eliza Madrigal: That's probably the most interesting... the weaving... because not a particular tradition, but PaB...such a mix
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, most meditation traditions would shudder at the thought of a group's discussion of what everyone experienced!
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pema Pera: but our exploration is really more, how to express it? democratic, peer-to-peer, non-hierarchical, shared, open
Pema Pera: it may be a really new approach to meditative explorations
Fox Monacular: although you might say that buddhist philosophy is in a big part a convoluted way to express whatever was experienced on the cushion
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It sorta seems to me that it would be a great theme session to do more thought experiments like that during a session and discuss the immedieate experience.
Pema Pera: oh sure, Fox, it is all experience based
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like we did in the retreat.
Pema Pera: yes, Corvi!
Pila Mulligan: Doug mentioned a dream he had there, was there discussion of dreams during the week (thinking Maxine was there)
Pema Pera: yes, among many other things
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: as well as day dreams
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pema Pera: or dreamlike experiences while awake, during our sessions
Eliza Madrigal: :) Sounds heavenly
Pila Mulligan: ah, lucidity :)
Pema Pera: yes, but without sleeping
Fox Monacular: intereting
Pema Pera: Maxine and Lia mentioned those, and me too
Paradise Tennant: :) there will be another one next year ?
Eliza Madrigal: Being doesn't sleep? hehe
Corvuscorva Nightfire: There will be lots more Paradise.
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Fox Monacular: I had lost of lucid dreams in meditation retreat
Pila Mulligan: the Europeans have been discussing the next one all last week :)
Pema Pera: Corvi also jumped right inThat surely drew my attention, though I never found out what "beer day" meant . . .
Corvuscorva Nightfire: One of the things that happened for me was that I dreamed while awake.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or sorta dreamed
Paradise Tennant: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Maxine talked about dreaming while awake and it gave me "permission" to do so.
Pila Mulligan: sometimes it seems gatherings enhance dreaming, doesn't it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: normally I don't remember dreams.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Eliza Madrigal: How wonderful Corvi :)
Pema Pera: giving each other "permission" for new angles on exploration was a recurrent theme, spontaneously, during the retreat
Eliza Madrigal: interesting
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hello Esron
Esron Huckleberry: hello
Esron Huckleberry: ^^
Esron Huckleberry: hello for all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Esron
Pema Pera: Hi Esron
Pila Mulligan: hi Esron
Fox Monacular: perhaps it has something to do with more intense introspective awareness
Paradise Tennant: hiya esron :))
Fox Monacular: hi Esron
Eliza Madrigal: And obviously a feeling of comfort/relaxation...at easeness?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It certainly felt like a way of speaking to myself..telling myself about the process I was engaged in..finding a path.
Pema Pera: feel free to join us, Esron
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Esron Huckleberry: I?
Pila Mulligan: people seem to appreciate lucid awareness, and several people together in a setting like a retreat have that as a common interest
Pema Pera: Esron, we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Esron Huckleberry: não sem prolemas
Esron Huckleberry: sem problema
Esron Huckleberry: posso me sentar?
Pema Pera: grazie multi!
Pema Pera: yes, please!
Esron Huckleberry: aqui é um grupo para que?
Pila Mulligan: we've been talkinig about a retreat held last week in California
--BELL--
Rowan Masala poofs, leaving a note on her cushion saying goodnight, for all to see when the 90 seconds are over
Pila Mulligan: bye Rowan
Paradise Tennant: nite nite rowan :)
Pila Mulligan: Pema, what are the plans for the next retreat. f any?
Pema Pera: We'll have to ask the Europeans
Pila Mulligan: :)
Fox Monacular: yes, I'm very interested in that too
Pema Pera: At the retreat we were thinking about having three retreats a year
Pila Mulligan: Wol et al are eager
Eliza Madrigal: Well, there was discussion of beer day...
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Pema Pera: beer day?????
Pema Pera: beer on tap, I hope?It seemed that we had quite a schedule coming up:
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes, Beer Day and the unretreat
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: root beer
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pema Pera: noooooooo
Fox Monacular: awareness of the alcohol intoxication
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: real beer!!!!
Fox Monacular: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Eliza Madrigal: Silent beer day
Corvuscorva Nightfire: good fox
Corvuscorva Nightfire: good eliza
Fox Monacular: haha
Pema Pera taking a sip of his Sapporo on tap in RL
Esron Huckleberry: sorry but bye for alll
Pila Mulligan: bye Esron
Pema Pera: bye Esron
Paradise Tennant: nite nite esron
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Esron.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Esron
Corvuscorva Nightfire drinks her blue moon in real life....bottled and at home.
Fox Monacular: how about Montreal? we have great beer here...
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sure do.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Montreal sounds nice :)
Pema Pera: (I'm actually in San Francisco right now; it was too hot for me in Berkeley, and very few places there have airconditioning)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I go there often
Fox Monacular: yes, yes. next retreat in Montreal
Pema Pera: I'd love to visit Montreal!
Fox Monacular: :)
Pema Pera: another chance to practice my French
stevenaia Michinaga: Just not in the winter
Paradise Tennant: waves at fox from toronto :)) we also have great beer :)
Pila Mulligan: I think Wol, Scath, Bert and others were hoping for Southern Europe in winter
Pema Pera: how hot is Montreal in August?
Paradise Tennant: hmm? sound nice
Fox Monacular: ok, toronto would work for me too
Eliza Madrigal: Germany sounds nice too, yes...though Wol mentioned May or June I think
Fox Monacular: it's ok in August, no more than 30 C
Pema Pera: So how about Malta in the winter, California in the spring, and Montreal in the summer?To my happy surprise the session went on for an extra one and a half hours, after the hour we had already spent together. I will not attempt to comment on the part where I wasn't present, but I was glad to see the brief practice session below. And I found it inspiring to read how Pila and Corvi talk about meditation, and about trusting your own experience, all in very simple terms, but very much to the point.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Pila Mulligan: sounds like fun
Paradise Tennant: never been to malta :)
Pema Pera: Arabella lives on Malta
Fox Monacular: they must have malt beer in malta
Pema Pera: and Hawaii would be fun too, of course; perhaps next winter?
Pema Pera: hehehe, Fox
Paradise Tennant: :)) smiles at pila
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses the "bad pun" pillow at Fox.
Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonds_Farsons_Cisk
Pila Mulligan: e komo mai
Fox Monacular: ouch
Corvuscorva Nightfire: giggles.
Pema Pera: Now watch this: http://www.manicmalta.com/beer_festival_malta.htm
Paradise Tennant: :)
Fox Monacular: i'm sure we can talk about moment-to-moment experience there
Pema Pera: :)
Paradise Tennant: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes when the bell rings
Fox Monacular: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Pema Pera: but seriously, Malta does strike me as the best part of Europe for a winter meeting . . .
Pema Pera: we should check with Arabella
Paradise Tennant: jan feb ?
Pema Pera: January perhaps?
Fox Monacular: i now have more reason to apply for scholaships:))
Pema Pera: December seems to busy with family events, we agreed during the retreat
Pema Pera: a scholarship to Malta University, Fox?
Paradise Tennant: :)
Fox Monacular: I can perhaps list it as a conference expense:)
Paradise Tennant: same format and duration ?
Eliza Madrigal: So nice to see everyone, and thanks for sharing about the retreat Pema and Corvi :) Bye for now (so sleepy)
Pema Pera: for sure, Fox, what with the dreaming experiences!
Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Paradise Tennant: good nite . eliza
Fox Monacular: bye Eliza!
Pema Pera: I too should go . . .
Fox Monacular: and me too...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Eliza and Pema.
Pila Mulligan: thanks Pema, bye for now
Pema Pera: a lot of work to catch up with still, many hundreds of emails . . . .
Paradise Tennant: good nite pema .. . thanks for sharing :)
Pila Mulligan: bye Fox
Pema Pera: bye Fox
Pema Pera: and bye everybody!
Fox Monacular: bye everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: would you like to do a quick meditation before we .. close ? pila
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve
Paradise Tennant: corvu?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I would.
Pila Mulligan: sure
Paradise Tennant: kk say 5 mins .. pila you start
Pila Mulligan: ok, until 8:05 SL, from now *gong*
Pila Mulligan: * un-gong * :)
Paradise Tennant: ;) thank you pila :)
Pila Mulligan: thank you Paradise and Corvi
Paradise Tennant: well I must admit .. I am really sleepy too :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank you both
Paradise Tennant: time to walk the hound and dream .....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: gnight, Paradise
Pila Mulligan: have a nice sleep
Pila Mulligan: bye :)
Paradise Tennant: I will sleep like a baby pila ..I always do after we mediate .. nite nite
Pila Mulligan: well, Corvi, are you now a meditator?
Pila Mulligan: ... or were you already?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think I'm just thirsty for it, now...haing tried whatever it was we were trying.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thought experiments or meditations or whatever.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it was pretty delicious.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I wasn't
Corvuscorva Nightfire: except in the sense of thinking about stuff during hour long masses.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: as a kid
Pila Mulligan: so there now an appetite for more contemplation
Pila Mulligan: is*
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...yeah..there is.
Pila Mulligan: me too :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Pila Mulligan: it is really helpful for everything
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think it's alot like reading a new book.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: there's so much to taste and savor and learn.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: if you buy the hype..it's a pretty damn good book.
Pila Mulligan: have you ever had any rl meditation classes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nope
Pila Mulligan: want one? (via SL)
Pila Mulligan: 5 minute
Pila Mulligan: I used to teach mediation classes in SL, but gave it up as too difficult to go beyond basics
Pila Mulligan: but basics takes about 5 miutes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok
Pila Mulligan: generic meditation 101 :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd really love it.
Pila Mulligan: now?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..yeah..if you have the time?
Pila Mulligan: sure
Pila Mulligan: there are thousands of meditation schools
Pila Mulligan: behinds them are hundreds of mdeitation lineages
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: lineages being successive gurus and teahcers over the centuries
Pila Mulligan: we'll keep going despoite the 90 secs :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..I have heard of this.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok..good.
Pila Mulligan: they all have unique ideas
Pila Mulligan: but you can reduce the essentials to three elements, in my opinion
Pila Mulligan: 1. posture
Pila Mulligan: 2. breathing
Pila Mulligan: 3. contemplation
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: all three are directly related, too
Pila Mulligan: posture is anything that is supportive of breathing
Pila Mulligan: sitting, walking, even laying down
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: but not all scrunched up
Pila Mulligan: as that inhibits breathing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Pila Mulligan: breathing is belly breathing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'vw had that experience...inhibited breathing
Pila Mulligan: using your diaphgram and not your ribs to inhale and exhale
Pila Mulligan: most people do
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it changes how you feel and therefore how you think
Pila Mulligan: it is a common affliction
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: breathing is probably the most important part really
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know if I do it wrong, breath...cause I start yawning.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: finally, contemplation
Pila Mulligan: contemplation is the point of greatest divergence among the schools
Pila Mulligan: as posture and breathing are pretty much body-bound
Corvuscorva Nightfire listens
Pila Mulligan: contemplationis what you do with your mind
Pila Mulligan: some people like ot chant -- such as GregorianChants
Pila Mulligan: or om
Pila Mulligan: or anything in between
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: some people like silence
Pila Mulligan: that is my approach
Pila Mulligan: quietness inside
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mantras or ideas?
Pila Mulligan: yes, such as koan in Zen
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by being?
Pila Mulligan: yep
Corvuscorva Nightfire hopes she remembers that right
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: the idea is to let the contemplation multiply the effect with the breathing and posture
Pila Mulligan: so the result is a lighter sense of Being
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..let me ask about this one thing I've been doing?
Pila Mulligan: enlightened as it were
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: ok
Corvuscorva Nightfire: at the retreat I had an image of myself looking out a window onto darkness with points of light
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and hanging onto the curtains so as not to fall into that.
Pila Mulligan: nice image
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I found at the next sitting a window seat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: very comvortable
Corvuscorva Nightfire: where I am now swinging my toes into that darkness.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but choosing not to go in.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: knowing that on one side there is my "house"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the other is this .....
Pila Mulligan: each part of meditation -- posture, breathing and contemplation -- can open windows to new perceptions, and some of them indeed may be better if not rushed into
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: some intense breathing practices canin fact be overwhelming
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so is this kind of picture/story an ok way to sit?
Pila Mulligan: just getting a kink out of your posture can lead to new sensations
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: sure
Pila Mulligan: let your senses lead you
Pila Mulligan: not to fast, but steady
Pila Mulligan: step where you wish
Pila Mulligan: metaphorically
Pila Mulligan: but doing it daily is really helpful, even just 5 min a day
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Pila Mulligan: whatever feels best likely is best
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what I think is that it will be like writing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that I will want much more than I get to do.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that I'll find a thousand things that I have to do instead.
Pila Mulligan: take your time :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.
Pila Mulligan: but try to make 5 inutes a day if you can
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: are you faimliar with belly breathing, have we talked about it before?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Pila Mulligan: ok
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am familiar anyway
Pila Mulligan: it is important
Pila Mulligan: have you heard of mudras?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nope
Corvuscorva Nightfire: wait
Pila Mulligan: a mudra as a Hindu term for somehting that closes a circuit?
Pila Mulligan: sort of
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Pila Mulligan: like putting the forefinger and thumb tips together
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that makes sense
Pila Mulligan: that is a common posture device
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or touching your toes?
Pila Mulligan: that is an assana
Pila Mulligan: stretching
Pila Mulligan: mudras are for just sitting or whatever
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok
Pila Mulligan: there is also a tongue mudra :)
Pila Mulligan: t is cool
Pila Mulligan: curl the tip of your tongue over back onto the roof of your mouth
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..I think I've seen that on statues?
Pila Mulligan: if you move it around a little you will find theplace where it closes an energy circuit
Pila Mulligan: so the tongu bottom tip is on the upper palate
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: found it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i think
Pila Mulligan: it helps to
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: those are posture tricks, like belly breathiing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: ther eit is
Pila Mulligan: meditaiton 101
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not magic..but ways your body works.
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: exactly
Pila Mulligan: human nature
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I want to reserve the magic bits for something really really important.
Pila Mulligan: well, thge magic is long term
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks
Pila Mulligan: there are epiphanies along the way
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: really nice moments of 'aha'
--BELL--
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Pila Mulligan: but it is mostly a long term uplift
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that's something I thought about a little at the retreat.
Pila Mulligan: what were you thinking?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that I could start from the end and jump right into some kind of "getting it" about the idea of being.
Pila Mulligan: close
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but that there is alot of fun stuff to gain each time you try it, whether you get it or not.
Pila Mulligan: the beauty to me is that it all adds up to what you would expect
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: reality
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just plain old real reality.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles
Pila Mulligan: a little lighter maybe, but yes, exactly
Corvuscorva Nightfire: except that you see it better.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well I look forward to a really good pair of glasses.
Pila Mulligan: people tend to fill reality withtheir own imaginings
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: meditation is one way to put the imaginings in perspective
Pila Mulligan: let them go if not needed or appoirpiate
Pila Mulligan: or keep them
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, thoughtfully
Pila Mulligan: if they are real
Corvuscorva Nightfire: keep some bits?
Pila Mulligan: sure
Pila Mulligan: keep what's real
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks
Pila Mulligan: to you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's even harder
Pila Mulligan: why?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: keeping some bits and throwing out others.
Pila Mulligan: for me it becomes self evident
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well it's easy if the baby can go with the bath, right?
Pila Mulligan: it is not something you have to do by next Wednesday
Pila Mulligan: it won't
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but if you want to keep the baby...that's tough.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
Pila Mulligan: yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I kept telling myself in the dream like state that there wasn't a hurry
Pila Mulligan: dropping erroneous imagininigs is pretty easy
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that I could let go of the curtains whenever I wanted
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but it didn't have to be now.
Pila Mulligan: you let go of them when the time comes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Pila Mulligan: they may not even be there then :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles....grins wide.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I sorta suspect when I am ready to let go..that there will be nothing to hold onto.
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: that's the beauty of the self-evident
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: a zillion people are doing the same thing, all by their own paths
Pila Mulligan: getting closer to the most real
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...I like that it's nothing special, really...that part....
Pila Mulligan: the worst part is not trying
Corvuscorva Nightfire: isn't there a bit where you stop trying?
Pila Mulligan: because reality can wait for you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: after doing alot of trying?
Pila Mulligan: yes, int he sense of effort
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks about this.
Pila Mulligan: but what I meant was not doing the 5 imuntes or so minimum
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah...the worst bit is if you stop doing the sitting.
Pila Mulligan: trying only in the sense of practice
Pila Mulligan: yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and opening up space for.....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: something
Pila Mulligan: or whatver path you take -- yoga, tai chi, etc
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pila Mulligan: or all of them
Pila Mulligan: if you have time
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: I've been practicing for an hour a day for 35+ years
Pila Mulligan: each time I sit down it is like tea with an old freind
Pila Mulligan: I can't miss it :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I can see how it gets to be something you very much want.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: instead of a chore.
Pila Mulligan: it is rewarding
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: and always helpful
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Pila Mulligan: but sometimes, it is difficult
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Pila Mulligan: easier to ignore in a bust morning
Pila Mulligan: busy
Pila Mulligan: but you can get past that urge
Pila Mulligan: because the busy day is harder without it
Pila Mulligan: I promise
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am sure you're right...and afraid you are wrong.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hoping you're right.
Pila Mulligan: see for yerself then :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that it will get easier.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok.
Pila Mulligan: it gets freindlier
Pila Mulligan: more familiar
Pila Mulligan: consider this idea Corvi
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: darkness with points of light is an image of extremes
Pila Mulligan: dark and light are the two extremes of odrinary light -- colors and such
Pila Mulligan: being, mundane life, is simply fuill of colors and such
Pila Mulligan: so you are not really going to the extremes
Pila Mulligan: you are goging to the middle
Pila Mulligan: darkness with points of light are real, but they are the extremes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's a story of how things relate, really..I think...maybe...not quite being as oneness..not quite..being at the moment of stuff arising.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and intertwining, moving together.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think
Pila Mulligan: well, the image of darkness with points of light reminds me of the yin-yang symbol
Pila Mulligan: the archtyps
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..for me..those points are touching
Corvuscorva Nightfire: moving
Pila Mulligan: but the majority of daily life is ismpler
Corvuscorva Nightfire: exchanging energy
Corvuscorva Nightfire: simpler?
Pila Mulligan: whole
Pila Mulligan: not separated into parts
Pila Mulligan: all one as Dr broner says
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks
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