2009.09.04 19:00 - 9 Seconds over Briar Patch

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    Absent a Dakini, the Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.


    Pila Mulligan: hiEos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: happy Friday
    Eos Amaterasu: Indeed, long weekend
    Eos Amaterasu: Hello Doug
    Pila Mulligan: hi Doug
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: squeak?
    doug Sosa: woof.
    Pila Mulligan: what a funny item to play such a critical role in modern life
    doug Sosa: its been a day of web design. computers do not - NOT- think the way I do.
    Pila Mulligan: you are lucky
    doug Sosa: we humans are amazing.
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Archmage
    Pila Mulligan: hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Eos, Howdy Pila, Hello again Doug
    doug Sosa: hi:)
    Pila Mulligan: does anyoe else not see Arch's avi?
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    Pila Mulligan: oh, there you are
    Pila Mulligan: I was only seeing the name and not the avi
    Pila Mulligan: but moving the camera helped :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hey, I usually have the slowest rez times....now I'm not anything special anymore *chuckle&
    Archmage Atlantis: Spent a 1/4 hour getting pants on earlier, almost as much as in RL
    Archmage Atlantis: *Tough crowd*
    Pila Mulligan: any ideas for a topic?
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, Dakini is GoC


    Doug wonders about 9 seconds leaving folks behind


    doug Sosa: I raised a question earlier today: taking on a new project with some key people, i found that trying the 9 sec i couldn't leave these folks behind.
    doug Sosa: Felt like if i did they would get dropped.
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    doug Sosa: I found it very strange actually.
    Pila Mulligan: yes, doug, and I was curious how literal the idea is -- that 9 seoconds would be enough to cause some disocntinuity
    Eos Amaterasu: You mean you couldn't find the 9 secs within the time space you were cohabiting with them?
    doug Sosa: Yes ??? me too. it was as if if i went into the 9 sec there was a danger of forgetting, and not renewing, my conection to them.
    Pila Mulligan: so the connnection sounds quite intnetional
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah.... so a non-dual approach is called for :-)
    doug Sosa: No. good question. Being back home, alone (sic), when i tried the 9 sec, what was normally an easy transition became much harder.




    Archmage Atlantis: In a society that does not recognize the 4x a day call to prayer, practice of the commandment is difficult.
    Pila Mulligan: what do suppose would be the effect if 'they would get dropped'?
    Eos Amaterasu: Actually the only power we have is to suspend ourselves
    Archmage Atlantis: Define non-dual please Eos.
    doug Sosa: well, i don't think i would "drop" them.
    Pila Mulligan: ah, so it is not like they would break (metaphorical)
    doug Sosa: But it felt as if they had to come with me into the 9sec, through that door so to speak.
    Eos Amaterasu: the world and others keep going = are suspended in the same 9 secs even as they walk and talk
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    doug Sosa: I don't sense that the feeling was real and i was just being cautius about not forgetting new responsibilities.
    Eos Amaterasu: the 9 secs is in existing time, not extra time... maybe that's the nonduality
    doug Sosa: What interests me in the feeling and the experience of it.
    Pila Mulligan: a tight connection
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, you have to bow to the phenemenal appearances :-)
    doug Sosa: I am usually comfortable just letting things be - i know i will catch up.
    doug Sosa: it was really as if my memory would stop they would cease to be.
    Pila Mulligan: it also may be that the idea of dropping them is not necessary
    doug Sosa: I think of watching a cat watch a bird. it took a while, and at moments the cat seemed to forget the bird,
    Archmage Atlantis: I have a question for you Doug, it may seem odd...may I ask?
    doug Sosa: then recalled a quickly turned its gaze back to the bird with a jerk.
    doug Sosa: yes, of course, please
    Pila Mulligan: (anyone want to take Dakini's log?)
    Eos Amaterasu: I could do so
    Pila Mulligan: (if not ,I will)
    doug Sosa: bless,pila
    Pila Mulligan: thanks


    Monastic life, duality


    Archmage Atlantis: What is the purpose of a life in a monastery?
    Pila Mulligan: good food?
    doug Sosa: that is a question to me?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes Doug, it relates in my mind to what you experienced.
    Eos Amaterasu: practicing being non-dual, by slightly taking duality as the path
    doug Sosa: how?
    Eos Amaterasu: slight sense of separation
    Archmage Atlantis: Eos answered for you.
    Eos Amaterasu: but sometimes that's a good idea
    doug Sosa: I am not seeing how duality enters in here with this example of mine.
    Eos Amaterasu: you mean being able to take or find 9 secs while in midst of conversing with people?
    doug Sosa: ah, let the duality arise as a way of letting the experience separate at its joints?
    Archmage Atlantis: Let me ask a different way.
    doug Sosa: (in this case i wsan't talking to them, i hadn't been with them for a day).
    Archmage Atlantis: What is the purpose of the 9 seconds>
    Archmage Atlantis: ?
    doug Sosa: the purpose of the 9 sec is to experience letting go of assumptions and paying attention to the experience, and then exploring it.
    Archmage Atlantis: Parse that purpose down into the RL situation.
    Eos Amaterasu: Usually our life is full of seeming purpose: just step back from that, don't push it away either
    Eos Amaterasu: RL is already inside a huge 9,000,0000,000,000,000,000 secs gap
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree with all you say Eos, I want to let go of the concept of non-duality for a moment
    Eos Amaterasu: letting go of all concepts, yes, 'tis tricky, have to have mercy to yourself :-)
    doug Sosa: i haven't though of non-duality for a while. After seeing that experience is not divided. But this example of mine raises the question, so i am sort of following..
    Eos Amaterasu: mabye you find letting go inside concept
    Eos Amaterasu: not just between thoughts
    Eos Amaterasu: inside thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: would a monastic life be an example of non-duality in action?
    Eos Amaterasu: not necessarily
    doug Sosa: doubt it, 80% of the monks seem to be really struggling.
    Eos Amaterasu: 99%
    Pila Mulligan: hungry maybe
    Eos Amaterasu: want
    Eos Amaterasu: pant
    Eos Amaterasu: woof!
    Archmage Atlantis: Only in it's most pure form, Pila
    Eos Amaterasu: but even a dog has....
    Pila Mulligan: yep :)
    Eos Amaterasu: dog nature
    doug Sosa: indeed.well, at the bell I've got to leave.. something about hunger.. :)
    Archmage Atlantis: But most people never move outside of the action of the moment
    Archmage Atlantis: In their minds




    doug Sosa: oh i think the reverse, they never give up conceptual momentum for actual experience.
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, nothing like getting in the last word :)
    Pila Mulligan: did you ever hear the Uncle Remus story of Bre'r Rabbit and the tarbaby?
    Archmage Atlantis: Still, Doug I shall debate that in absentia
    Archmage Atlantis: Grew up on it, Pila
    Archmage Atlantis: How bout you Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: Must discorporate - our daughter just go home from NYC...
    Eos Amaterasu: Don't know Uncle Remus.... will catch him in the logs :-)
    Pila Mulligan: ok, bye Eos
    Pila Mulligan: thanks for taking the log
    Pila Mulligan: for Dakini
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, tarbabies et al
    Archmage Atlantis: Very nice, Blessings and a happy reunion
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye Arch, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: for those reading the log, and not familiar with the tarbaby -- http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html
    Archmage Atlantis: Well Pila, it's you and I
    Pila Mulligan: the tarbaby is a kind of metaphor for being stuck in thoughts
    Archmage Atlantis: And anyone who reads the log, of course
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: dougs' 'conceptual momentum' and your 'never move outside of the action of the moment' both seem to address that being stuck
    Archmage Atlantis: Interesting idea, you mean from the standpoint of the character who was planning to throw Brer Rabbit in, I assume
    Pila Mulligan: so what's new Arch?
    Pila Mulligan: no
    Pila Mulligan: just the overall idea
    Pila Mulligan: of getting caught up in things
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, I would differentiate
    Pila Mulligan: remember, Brer Rabbit got himself stuck in the tar
    Archmage Atlantis: Right, wrong story, I was bringing up the briar patch story
    Pila Mulligan: "Br'er Fox constructs a doll out of a lump of tar and dressed it with some clothes. When Br'er Rabbit comes along he addresses the tar "baby" amiably, but receives no response. Br'er Rabbit becomes offended by what he perceives as the Tar Baby's lack of manners, punches it, and in doing so becomes stuck. Now that Br'er Rabbit is stuck, Br'er Fox ponders how to dispose of him."
    Archmage Atlantis: Faulty neurons
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is often told with the tarbaby
    Pila Mulligan: "don't throw me into the briar patch, Br'er Fox!"
    Pila Mulligan: after he was caught
    Archmage Atlantis: And Brer Fox is equally stuck in his own ideas
    Archmage Atlantis: That is what I thought you were saying
    Pila Mulligan: yes, by doing just what Br'er Rabbit seems not to want -- that is, throwing him into the briar patch -- he allows Br'er Rabbit to escape
    Pila Mulligan: so everyone is stuck in the velocity of their thoughts
    Archmage Atlantis: What Eos calls non-Duality, I would equate with a life of contemplation
    Pila Mulligan: could be, I was not really sure what he meant :)
    Pila Mulligan: I would tend to suppose he meant the same as Dr. Bronner
    Archmage Atlantis: The 9 seconds I equate with contemplation, but not removed from RL
    Pila Mulligan: yes, 'All One!'
    Archmage Atlantis: This is where I differ with Doug, and why the idea of being caught in one's own thoughts comes to mind
    Pila Mulligan: (last night here I went into some detail as to why I think the 9 seconds is more like yoga than contemplation)
    Pila Mulligan: I was not really sure what Doug meant, also
    Archmage Atlantis: One is equally trapped by the tar baby that exists, or by one's own thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: do you often use the term maya?
    Archmage Atlantis: Maya? no, please help me with that
    Pila Mulligan: maya would seem to include the tar baby effect and one's own thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: it is a hindu term, and like all such things, has smany schools around it to define it



    Pila Mulligan: from wiki, the lowest common denominator :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28illusion%29
    Pila Mulligan: "Maya (Sanskrit) has multiple meanings, and refers to concepts of "illusion" in Hinduism and Sikhism. Maya, is the principal concept which manifests, perpetuates and governs the illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe."
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, just read that *smile*
    Pila Mulligan: for Eos, that probably would relate to perception being divided into a subject and objects
    Pila Mulligan: phenomenal dulaity
    Pila Mulligan: (with typos)
    Pila Mulligan: subjective attachment and the stream of consciousness
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah words, so powerful at providing and hiding meaning all at the same time
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Ah time, so powerful at providing and hiding meaning all in the same words
    Archmage Atlantis: Perhaps we should turn off the recorder, but I do not know how that is done
    Pila Mulligan: ok, let me try
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