2009.09.06 19:00 - Gifts

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    doug Sosa and Pila Mulligan join me followed by Archmage Atlantis.  The initial discussions find an interesting patters that Pile summorized later when we were looking for a topic later.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug
    doug Sosa: hi steve :)
    doug Sosa: I've only got a few minutes tonight.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila
    doug Sosa: ah, pila.
    stevenaia Michinaga: what;s for dinner doug?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve and Doug
    doug Sosa: I wish i could invite you over. i like this little crowd that often gets together. Let's see.
    Pila Mulligan: :) thanks
    doug Sosa: Some stir fried vegs from the garden, a salad, some tofu. Chard, corn..
    Pila Mulligan: yummy
    doug Sosa: I had a lunch out at point reyenes, bolonese with lamb. terrific.
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice, are you a vegetarian?
    doug Sosa: no, but the tendency is there.
    doug Sosa: hi arc
    Pila Mulligan: ... and I could bring some of the watermelon that are just now ripening
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Archmage
    Pila Mulligan: hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi Doug
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Pila, Steve
    Archmage Atlantis: No chard for me please
    Archmage Atlantis: The rest sounds wonderful
    doug Sosa: oh the way we do it, really good. no bitterness, right from the garden..
    Pila Mulligan: does your garden have eggplant Doug?
    Archmage Atlantis: Must be like seafood & fish, if i get to far inland, it's usually awful
    Archmage Atlantis: Once on gets used to fresh, nothing else compares
    Archmage Atlantis: *one
    Pila Mulligan: eggplant and corn are both foods with flavors that seem to improve with a decrease in time from picking to the table
    stevenaia Michinaga: eating near foods always seems to be better, lucky californians
    doug Sosa: yes, and this year we have worked to get more from the garden.
    stevenaia Michinaga: *near
    doug Sosa: I love the time weeding. it is like 9 sec. drop concepts and go with experience. you lean to tell a weed just by the resistance of the roots..
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: lear=learn
    Archmage Atlantis: The black variety, or a white or purple eggplant.....I like them better usually less seedy and milder
    Pila Mulligan: eggplant is a very substantial vegetable
    Pila Mulligan: like breadfruit
    Pila Mulligan: almost meaty
    Archmage Atlantis: That was meant as a question for Doug
    Pila Mulligan: ah, what type :)
    doug Sosa: we have the dark, forgotten the variety.
    doug Sosa: or maybe, dark purple?
    Pila Mulligan: the thick one or Japanese thin is style?
    Pila Mulligan: thin*
    Archmage Atlantis: From a seed company, or a heritage variety
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, Japanese most likely
    doug Sosa: i is ignorant
    Pila Mulligan: my watermelon are a rare breed
    Pila Mulligan: according to the seed package
    doug Sosa: Pila are you near honolulu?
    Pila Mulligan: nope
    Pila Mulligan: Big Island
    doug Sosa: I'll be there last week of oct.
    doug Sosa: shucks.
    Pila Mulligan: just a hop away
    Pila Mulligan: like bus service
    doug Sosa: I remember that now. Hope can make us forget.
    doug Sosa: forget
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: what;s a hop, 10 miles across water?
    Pila Mulligan: 200
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh
    stevenaia Michinaga: more a leap
    Pila Mulligan: but still like bus service
    doug Sosa: rabbit hop.
    Archmage Atlantis: Prop planes, yes?
    Pila Mulligan: jets
    Archmage Atlantis: What seating capacity
    Pila Mulligan: 737s mostly
    Archmage Atlantis: Not bad
    doug Sosa: ok, corn just got in the water (not my doing but ..) so bye for this evening.
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug
    Pila Mulligan: have a nice meal Doug
    Archmage Atlantis: I used to have to fly prop or small jets from Nashville to Charlotte, WV on business
    Archmage Atlantis: I hated those
    Archmage Atlantis: Plus the Charlotte airport was on the side of a mountain with short runways,......It was Eek!! every time we landed
    Pila Mulligan: the De Havilland Dash is not so bad, but I agree generally, they are not comfortable
    Archmage Atlantis: I always had to been over double to get in and down the aisle
    Archmage Atlantis: Another meeting with no Guardian? - I hear they had to give up their plots on SL due to budget adjustments
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am the guardian sunday nights
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, didn't see you claim the meeting
    stevenaia Michinaga: before you arrived
    Bellily Millar: greetings
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Belilly
    Pila Mulligan: hi Belilly
    stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot looks like it's sleeping Bellily
    Pila Mulligan: how are you?
    Bellily Millar: lol steve
    Bellily Millar: i don't know how to control the parrot, but have always wanted one
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bellily Millar: fine pila, hope you are too
    Archmage Atlantis: I don't think one controls any animal, usually they train us
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my cat made me say that
    Pila Mulligan: I'm fine too, thanks -- but the lag is fierce tonight for me
    Archmage Atlantis: If my cat, fish and birds don't get what they want, it's heck till they do
    Pila Mulligan: took two triee there :)
    Pila Mulligan: tires*
    Pila Mulligan: tries*
    Archmage Atlantis: The koi are getting so big, I'm not sure I won't find one walking through the house one day

    Bellily Millar joins us with some very good perspectives on the topic of Gifts

    Bellily Millar: i hear ya pila. it's so frustrating when the lag is large
    Bellily Millar: grin mage
    Bellily Millar: I didn't mean "control" in any sense applying to real life animals.. just wonder if i can make this parrot sit upright in SL
    Archmage Atlantis: I understand
    Bellily Millar: i'm sorry i always come late when i come .. what is the topic?
    stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bellily Millar: hehehe
    Bellily Millar: ok.
    Archmage Atlantis: Chard, eggplant, Hawaiian transport and now your parrot, actually
    Bellily Millar: it doesn't have a name yet
    stevenaia Michinaga: but if you have a topic, feel free
    Pila Mulligan is going to slip away due to lag problems -- nice to visit with you all -- bye fr now
    Bellily Millar: mmmmmm chard mmmmm my favorite green
    Bellily Millar: take good care pila
    Archmage Atlantis: Take care Pila
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pila
    Bellily Millar: whoosh. pila is gone
    stevenaia Michinaga: Sunday nights tend to be quiet sometimes
    Bellily Millar: quiet is nice on a sunday evening
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it helps you focus
    Archmage Atlantis: I like the walk to the center of the fountain, then ascend to the sky departure I have seen
    Archmage Atlantis: Whoosh is all I can manage......
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Bellily Millar: aloha paradise
    Bellily Millar: hope you are well
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: hiya steve bellity .. arch :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I actually wrote down a topic earlier
    stevenaia Michinaga: listens
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, things being what they are, and a conversation about free items earlier
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello bene
    Paradise Tennant: hiya bene
    Benedizione Vita: hello all

    Archmage Atlantis offers the topic of Gifts

    Archmage Atlantis: Led me to think that "what is the nature/essence" of a gift might be interesting
    Bellily Millar: grins to you bene
    Bellily Millar: i like your name
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi bene
    Benedizione Vita: thank you bellily
    Benedizione Vita: hi AA
    stevenaia Michinaga: a gift?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a thing or blessing?
    stevenaia Michinaga: or either
    Archmage Atlantis: Could be, but more if I give you a gift of an item.....I have an example
    Archmage Atlantis: A friend gave me a gift of a large cage for a cat
    stevenaia Michinaga: usually non-material gifts have a greater impact
    stevenaia Michinaga: like the gift of love
    Archmage Atlantis: She said it was mine, but then added I had to return it to her if I decided I didn't need it
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: love works the same why, so you are talking property issues or ethics?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm gifting is a way of expressing generosity .. connection .. regard .. respect .. friendship it is almost a form of material communication
    Archmage Atlantis: She and I got into this discussion, I said it was a gift of use, she insisted it was a gift of the cage, unless I didn't need it
    stevenaia Michinaga: a gift of a loan?
    Bellily Millar: doesn't matter if it was a gift or a loan. she wanted to impact your life in a practical way. blessing with the practical is also a form of love
    Archmage Atlantis: Exactly
    Archmage Atlantis: I would see it that way now, Belilly
    Archmage Atlantis: Then I saw it differently
    Bellily Millar: and the practical hates to be wasted, thus the "if you don't need" statement
    Bellily Millar: how did you see it, arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: That is was a loan with an obligation
    Archmage Atlantis: A gift is free of obligation
    stevenaia Michinaga: so even if you didn;t have a cat, you wouldn't think to return it if she asked?
    Archmage Atlantis: If I still had it, and she asked, after the cat passed on, sure
    Paradise Tennant: no strings .. but in this instance .. constraint was a practical one ....perhaps she knows someone else who also needs one :)
    Bellily Millar: maybe there are different categories of gifts, different all based in love in various forms
    stevenaia Michinaga: she just asked before instead of after
    Archmage Atlantis: But now if I accepted, I had to keep up with it
    Archmage Atlantis: To be to be a gift, it would be given without expectation or obligation
    stevenaia Michinaga: that;s one type of gift
    Bellily Millar: arch, what about the gift of "tough love?"
    Paradise Tennant: some times the greatest gifts are ones that .. are the most difficult to give
    Archmage Atlantis: Thank you Bellily, love was the next touchpoing
    Archmage Atlantis: point
    Bellily Millar: life's a mixed and confusing bag... and it's long, so the rules change a few times.. one definition is never enough
    Archmage Atlantis: Although "tough love" is a conversation in it's own right
    Paradise Tennant: lol well put
    Benedizione Vita: has the relationship of gift with identification been discussed yet?
    Paradise Tennant: there are always gray areas
    Archmage Atlantis: No Bene
    stevenaia Michinaga: please explain Bene
    Benedizione Vita: may be interesting, given idea of dropping identification
    Benedizione Vita: well, one (who?) can ask
    Benedizione Vita: who is giving, and to whom?
    Benedizione Vita: and what is it about the ting given that defines it as belonging to one person and then another?
    Paradise Tennant: hmmmm mostly life's great gifts are the ones we are not really aware of . really the job is fully appreciate what we have
    stevenaia Michinaga: aww, that identification
    Bellily Millar: i don't understand how you mean "identification."
    Bellily Millar: is that a standard PaB term?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no
    stevenaia Michinaga: I thought he was talking about the identification of the participants in the gift giving
    stevenaia Michinaga: bene?
    Benedizione Vita: close, steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: what;s important is to try to be clear
    Benedizione Vita: I think, in the idea of gift giving
    Benedizione Vita: maybe there is some sense of "I am this person who is giving a gift, and this thing is mine, and I give it to that person and then it is theirs"
    Bellily Millar: go on, bene
    Benedizione Vita: so if we look here: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information/Hints
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree Bene
    Paradise Tennant: hmm really think we are on a rental program ..and nothing is really ours or anyone else's for very long .. ownership is a myth
    Benedizione Vita: we can think about what it might mean for gift giving to take place
    Benedizione Vita: without this kind of "I am this separate thing giving this separate thing to another separate thing"
    Benedizione Vita: and then the whole presentation is more relaxed
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Benedizione Vita: what kind of apprecation/gratitude comes out of a presentation like that? maybe it is much more potent than an "I am a person and that person gave me something very nice"
    Bellily Millar: interesting
    Archmage Atlantis: I am Ozmandias, look upon my works........or something like that you mean Paradise


    Archmage Atlantis: None of us are permanent
    Benedizione Vita: how do you know that archmage? what if I am? ;^)
    Paradise Tennant: ;) yes well on this ... plane no
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Benedizione Vita: which plane?
    Archmage Atlantis: the one from Honolulu to the Big Island
    Benedizione Vita: hahaha
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Benedizione Vita: 2=x+y+z
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Bellily Millar: what about the component of pride in gifting? some gifts are given in order to make the giver feel a certain way, some gifts are given even at the expense of hardship of the giver
    stevenaia Michinaga: manipulative gifts?
    Archmage Atlantis: To me, Bene, the first is not a gift
    Bellily Millar: yeah
    Bellily Millar: agree, arch
    Bellily Millar: but we all do it sometimes...
    Bellily Millar: it's hard to give a pure, pure, pure gift often
    Paradise Tennant: well even our attention ..our respect .. human warmth is a gift ..
    Benedizione Vita: I'm going to play HaSatan (or being) here a bit and say "I never give impure gifts"
    Paradise Tennant: that is easy to do with practice :))
    Bellily Millar: indeed, paradise
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Bellily, that is why I think it is a word worthy of discussion
    Paradise Tennant: :)) well I am going to excuse myself and give myself the gift of an early night .. thank you all .. big wave :))
    Archmage Atlantis: If I give a pair of SL earrings to someone's avatar, is that a gift if I hope to create interest in me
    Benedizione Vita: goodnight paradise :)
    Bellily Millar: take good care, nite nite paradise
    Archmage Atlantis: Nite Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: goodnight bene ..arch bellity .. steve sleep well :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go too
    Benedizione Vita: and I'm going to follow paradise and steve out the door :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
    Benedizione Vita: goodnight all :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Nite to you both
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