2009.09.07 13:00 - Too much theory

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza and Scath :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya and Scath :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The Hello Scath just showed up from first arriving back there... Hmm
    Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, both of you are clouds to me:)
    Eliza Madrigal: How was the rest of the session on Sunday?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :(
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stim : )
    Gaya Ethaniel: I felt we lost a bit of focus but overall good :) How was it for you Scath?
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim!
    Stim Morane: Hi Eliza!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Gaya
    Stim Morane: Glowing clouds ...
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, all of us?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Seems like an ok avatar... a glowing cloud :)
    Stim Morane: You and Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: How is everyone btw? I'm well :)
    Stim Morane: Fine thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, well :) Thank you
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not lagging too much tonight phew :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fael and Pila :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Stim, Eliza, Gaya, Scath, Pila :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Fael
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Pila :)
    Stim Morane: And Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: hello everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: Stim, are you planning to attend the retreat in Jan next year?
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila
    Stim Morane: where is it?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Malta :)
    Stim Morane: Is that in California?
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Ha:)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Pila Mulligan: near Malibu?
    Stim Morane: In that case, maybe
    Stim Morane: Oh all right, just a minute ...
    Bertram Jacobus: hello all ... :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bertram :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Stim Morane: hi Bertram
    Pila Mulligan: Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, were you talking to the autologger Stim?
    Stim Morane: yes, the darn thing won't leave me alone ...
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs!
    Scathach Rhiadra: haha:)
    Pila Mulligan: Gaya, are you planning to attend the Malta retreat?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertram
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm ... not sure, it depends on many things :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: You?
    Pila Mulligan: I checked the airfares -- too much forme
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... I can imagine.
    Fael Illyar: most likely too much for me too then
    Pila Mulligan: but Fael, I'd be travelling much further, I thiink
    Eliza Madrigal: I checked airfares also, not unreal, but probably not wise... we'll see
    Bertram Jacobus: hello doug ... ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello doug :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well hello doug
    Pila Mulligan: the flights from here first stop at an US city then London or Amstedam
    Stim Morane: hi Doug
    Pila Mulligan: hi Doug
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Fael Illyar: Hi doug :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Doug
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Pila, you could stop in Miami and say hello, then we could keep travelling :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: true
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    doug Sosa: Makes me feel lik :)
    doug Sosa: like :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hey wol ! ... :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Wol! :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Wol :)
    Stim Morane: hi Wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol
    Wol Euler: hello veryone, sorry I'm late
    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Ya :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Yakuzza
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Fael Illyar: Hi Yak :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hey yaku :-)
    Stim Morane: hi Yakuzza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are we reaching meditative states by nature but unable to name and classify those so that we may even forget to reach those when we get into stress for a longer period of time when we don´t have something to recall that brings those back intentionally ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or is medidation only when i know that it´s called meditation and an intentional process of gaining more selfawareness ?
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, nice Ya :)
    Pila Mulligan: to name and classify an experience is one way to remember it
    Pila Mulligan: but surely we can also remembered things that have no name
    Fael Illyar: a key to remembering.
    Eliza Madrigal thinks we meditate to drop what's in the way of living from our naturally aware state...
    Fael Illyar: that's what a name is
    Wol Euler: this reminds me of Stim's comments about "view" some time back, and of Scath commenting on intention
    doug Sosa: what we are "naturay aware" of seems still filled with concepts.
    doug Sosa: Like we think the water here is more "natural" than say "the state o politics".
    doug Sosa: o=of
    doug Sosa: we can sense the weathe, plants "sense" climate changes. These are as "real" as the water in front of us.
    Bertram Jacobus: we ? some more, some less i guess ...
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Pila Mulligan thinks of the first photo of earth from space -- a consciousness-changing view
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i had a photo of an earth arising shot from the moon for along time at my wall. many people did not realize what it was / is ...
    Wol Euler: wow, that is such an iconic image, I cannot imagine not recognizing it.
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Pila Mulligan: significant insights gained from any practice usually have the same effect, some change consciousness (be it greater or lesser)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i was ... a bit disappeared i must commit ... ;-)
    Pila Mulligan: chnage of*
    doug Sosa: brb
    Eliza Madrigal: Functioning in politics and such, the frustrations of the process can stick to us and that's what I think we drop in meditative practices... actually...
    Eliza Madrigal: not even politics...just wandering around in the world :)
    Pila Mulligan: Yak, meditation and spontaneous meditative states both contribute to dealing with stress
    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe we start with the conscious idea practice of meditation and gradually over time, it becomes one's natural way of being?
    Fael Illyar: That is the idea I've heard.
    Bertram Jacobus: i always have problems with "beginnings" ... always think about eternity ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my problem was and is for example that when i think about buddism or meditation i still have associations that those are fancy things i would like to aquire but i don´t actually feel that i would have time and persistence and somehow i feel a need of fancy new feelings when i would do so, but my problem is that i associate exactly that everytime when i think about it and even disable myself in that way from getting more experienced or understand what i might have implicitly already aquired
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just reassociate an existing schema and don´t let something new even touch me, but that is even something i noticed in multiple situations
    Pila Mulligan: fancy contemplation is one path :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: You need a starter maybe, Ya... just the 9 seconds and paying attention to your breath maybe... then you notice "Hm... I feel clearer..." then you maybe want to do more naturally?
    Eliza Madrigal: no pressure
    Wol Euler: yes, I was aobut to say something like that :)
    Fael Illyar: It's not so much the meditation itself that's the important part. It's the will to keep going.
    Wol Euler: too much theory is getting in the way of actuality, Yakuzza :)
    Fael Illyar: meditation is a tool
    Wol Euler: just do it, don't worry about what it is called.
    Pila Mulligan: word words wods words happiness words words more words
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Stim Morane: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    doug Sosa: it seems that getting involved in a real world project, from doing the dishes to restructuring the local school, etc, makes it easier to meditate and break through conceptual categories.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Personal examples to work with ...
    Stim Morane: sorry, I have to leave early today. See you all later!
    Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
    Fael Illyar: See you later Stim :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Stim :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye stim ...
    Wol Euler: bye stim, take care.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
    Stim Morane: thanks, bye everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Stim :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye stim
    Pila Mulligan: odds are, Yak, that when the time is right then something you would like to try will appear for you
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Fael Illyar: oops. better be careful with double clicking
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: another second and I would have bitten you.
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Wol Euler: actually, I think that Yak's dilemma is something fairly common, which the 9 seconds does address well.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Wol Euler: it takes the specialness, the event-ness, out of meditation by making it something regular and ordinary, habitual
    Wol Euler: Pema's koan about starting from the result and working back to the premise is a great idea
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, the 9 secs every 15 minutes are too much at the moment. i programmed my mobile for every 30 minutes ...
    Wol Euler: perhaps yo would arrive at the things you want, without ever having to address wanting them?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm, yes Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that is my dilemma i noticed that i often ,,just change my mind" unintentionally but when i ,,want something to change" i just get stuck ,,wanting"
    Gaya Ethaniel: If you just view 9 sec as pauses/breaks, it can provide you with a 'friendlier' starting point I think, Yakuzza.
    Bertram Jacobus: why is that " akoan" wol ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: "a koan"
    Wol Euler grins. OK, it isn't, except in the sense of something that prompts you to reconsider.
    Pila Mulligan: so Yak, is it a dilemma that change arises without wanting it, or is it a lesson instead?
    Bertram Jacobus: nice point wol :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It helps me and I think many of people here would say the same ... so perhaps just do it for a while without thinking too much about what it is/what to look for etc?
    Wol Euler: a meta-koan: if the sage whispers when alone on his mountaintop, where nobody but himself can hear, is what he says a koan?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think a koan is a good description.... because it is answered before you ask...
    Wol Euler: or is it a koan because it prompts you to think differently?
    Wol Euler: (i.e. is it a verb or a noun?)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Did you see Karate Kid?
    Fael Illyar: want is enough.
    Fael Illyar: to make change happen.
    Wol Euler: no, I don't know htat.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wax on ... wax off ... ? If you have time Yakuzza, watch the film :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods.. I think of a koan as a kind of rock someone is trying to break open, but really they break open instead by just holding it, carrying around, thinking about it...
    Bertram Jacobus: isn´t the essential point of koans, that they help to transcend the mind ?
    Eliza Madrigal: well starting from the end seems like it could apply there :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: A koan may work for some, may not for some I guess ...
    Fael Illyar: they challenge our underlying assumptions we are often not even aware of
    Bertram Jacobus: i agree gaya - more or less ... :o)
    Gaya Ethaniel: In Korea as least, a koan was given to a particular person ... in a way personalised.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, google only shows me karate kid on wax on wax off :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure it's similar in other countries ... but not sure.
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes teacher to student... but we can learn from everything...
    Bertram Jacobus: in tibetan buddhism eliza there are mentioned four kinds of a teacher : the teacher as a person, the teacher in texts, the teacher in everything and the transcendent teacher. i like this very much ...
    doug Sosa: good.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, yes Bert! Nice
    Eliza Madrigal: I was just listening to someone teaching about mandalas... a very specific tradition and way of seeing things... so over my head, but fascinating. Something in there to notice, not sure what yet. :)
    Bertram Jacobus: sounds great :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: It would be easy to feel "Oh No" this is too much to do and learn.... and kind of shut down to it...
    Wol Euler: /m enods
    Bertram Jacobus: i also experienced a lot of very special feelings at such teachings and stuff ...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes...that 'over my head' feeling can be great
    Bertram Jacobus: big gifts i think ...
    Pila Mulligan needs to leave now, so thanks and bye for onw everyone, but a parting thought :) ...
    Pila Mulligan: Bert said earlier he has problems with "beginnings" vis a vis eternity, yet even so there are natural cycles of change
    Bertram Jacobus: bye pila ...
    Wol Euler: bye pila, enjoy the day
    Fael Illyar: See you later Pila :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) he doesn't understand why the master asks him to do all these housework. The teacher devised these chores for various reasons ie willingness, hardwork, physical strength/technique, trust in the teacher etc... I guess what I mean is sometimes it's good to just try things out as long as you're willing/interested even though we don't understand 'theories' behind them.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day PIla :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :)
    Fael Illyar: understanding by experimentation :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Time to go :) Good day/night.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya :)
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, sleep well
    Fael Illyar: good night Gaya :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye gaya ...
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Gaya:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night gaya
    doug Sosa: bye
    Fael Illyar: see you later doug :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, night everyone
    Fael Illyar: Good night Yak :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Ya :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight, yakuzza, take care
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night yakuzza
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, good night all:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Scath :)
    Wol Euler: :) goodnight scath
    Fael Illyar: Good night Scath :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye scath, yak and doug ;o)
    Eliza Madrigal: I need to do something silly
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, i´ll leave too. have a good time all and ty
    Fael Illyar: meep meep! :)
    Wol Euler: please do :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bert :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Bertram :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight bert, take care
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha.... like the ministry of silly walks....
    Wol Euler: or like the ...
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Wol Euler: bah.
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Wol Euler: lag
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)))
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha...been tooo long
    Wol Euler laughs
    Fael Illyar: onigokko
    Fael Illyar: stop
    Wol Euler: stop
    Wol Euler: stop, I said!
    Fael Illyar: eek, it won't stop
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha. Perfect....and even Wol still going....
    Eliza Madrigal: Stop
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Wol Euler grins
    Eliza Madrigal: Whew, that helped :)
    Wol Euler: was that silly enough?
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, just nearly silly enough
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: manbo!
    Eliza Madrigal: Awesome!
    Fael Illyar: stop
    Fael Illyar: more sillyness :)
    Wol Euler: manbo!
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Fael Illyar: do you have maracas Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: No....
    Wol Euler: this is blending very strangely with my RL music :))))
    Fael Illyar: it's a box, I'd have to stop to give the folder
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thankkks!
    Wol Euler: stop
    Fael Illyar: just rez it on ground and open :)
    Fael Illyar: wear guardian tag first :)
    Fael Illyar: wear the normal version, not tiny version
    Fael Illyar: maracas_l and maracas_r
    Fael Illyar: not the ones with 4TINY in the name
    Eliza Madrigal: manbo
    Fael Illyar: manbo!
    Wol Euler grins
    Fael Illyar: needs the exclamation mark :)
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: great! :D
    Wol Euler: ty eliza :)
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Eliza Madrigal: :D
    Eliza Madrigal: irresistable
    Fael Illyar: ... it suddenly just dawned on me where this music is from :)
    Eliza Madrigal: My children are feeling like the grown ups now
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: where, Fael?
    Wol Euler: play is good
    Eliza Madrigal: YES
    Fael Illyar: The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time
    Eliza Madrigal: Good to be an example :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohh... bet my son would know that
    Fael Illyar: a nintendo64 game
    Eliza Madrigal: I had to order an ocarina when he was into that game
    Wol Euler: :))
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fael Illyar: I recently played the game.
    Eliza Madrigal: I do like the visuals on that one
    Eliza Madrigal: The only game I played with them on a consistent basis was Harvest Moon though... liked that one.. the older version
    Fael Illyar: don't know that one :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :) Wow...more techie than Fael
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Fael Illyar: console games are my blind spot
    Eliza Madrigal: obviously kidding
    Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay... think I'm tired out now...
    Fael Illyar: my family wasn't rich enough to keep buying them
    Wol Euler: stop
    Fael Illyar: stop
    Eliza Madrigal: whew
    Eliza Madrigal: yes they do get pricey
    Wol Euler: a good reason to get a new job, then! :)
    Fael Illyar: Heh :)
    Fael Illyar: I had to settle with what PC games I could get.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd guess that helped to make you resourceful, Fael
    Fael Illyar: yes it did
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: the first computer had to be sent to be repaired twice.
    Fael Illyar: I managed to break the operating system.
    Eliza Madrigal: eeek
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Fael Illyar: after that, I could either fix it myself or I didn't break it anymore ... well a combination of those.
    Eliza Madrigal: haha half break?
    Fael Illyar: don't remember the details :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Wol Euler: "this computer is half broken"
    Wol Euler: a koan :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ahhaha
    Fael Illyar: propably took long enough to break it again that I could repair it myself by that time.
    Eliza Madrigal: a marvelous window and tool
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: certainly is like a koan in that it opens us up...or has the potential to
    Eliza Madrigal: not the tool of course... but what we pay attention to
    Fael Illyar: I still break my computers software from time to time but I know how to fix them :)
    Fael Illyar: I've long had two computers so I'll have one to use to help fix the other :)
    Eliza Madrigal wonders if she doesn't buy her son video games if he will learn to fix the computer in the closet
    Wol Euler grins and nods
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fael Illyar: he just might :P
    Fael Illyar: but... well, only if he's got the right mindset about it.
    Fael Illyar: as in, believes he can succeed
    Fael Illyar: and wants to
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal nods... the 'want to'
    Wol Euler: not being afraid of it is at least 37% of succeeding
    Eliza Madrigal: 37%...hey not bad :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: I find it's more like 95%
    Fael Illyar: if not 99%
    Fael Illyar: or more
    Wol Euler: depends on the field :) but yes, it is very important
    Eliza Madrigal: Can one not be afraid because they 'want to' ?
    Fael Illyar: something in that sentence doesn't make sense... but I curiously can't make enough sense to point out what...
    Eliza Madrigal grins... I feel that way about a lot of things
    Wol Euler: do you mean "can wanting overcome fear"? maybe.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, that is what I meant
    Fael Illyar: answer is yes but it takes more want than it would without the fear.
    Wol Euler: I think it depends on the size of the want, and the weight of the fear :)
    Eliza Madrigal: GMTA
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fael Illyar: GMTA?
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe if you get a taste of something beyond the fear
    Eliza Madrigal: Great minds think a like... you and Wol said much the same thing :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes :)
    Fael Illyar: it's the balance of want and fear
    Fael Illyar: there needs to be enough want that some of it can be transformed into want to not be afraid.
    Wol Euler: one great way to skew that balance is to get a taste of success at the thing you fear. (Thinking back to Yakuzza and meditation)
    Fael Illyar: ah true
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I relate much to Yakuzza... I think he and I absorb so much...
    Eliza Madrigal: and then it takes a while to breakthrough
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: incubation time :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: a feeling of "Oh No, I've got to catch up" and I guess a kind of fear that one never may....
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh and yes... there it is. Incubation time :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and then "pop"
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fael Illyar: catch up to... what?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly
    Wol Euler: the overnight success phenomenon.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: that pop can come after surrendering that you'll never catch up
    Wol Euler: hallo belilly, wilkommen zurück :)
    Fael Illyar: yes... then you can see you're already there.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bellily
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes Fael :) It was with you all the time
    Bellily Millar: hi eliza and the rest
    Fael Illyar: Hi Bellily :)
    Bellily Millar: grinnin at all of you
    Eliza Madrigal grins back :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Bellily Millar: i am never sure when these things start... how long have you been at it?
    Wol Euler: 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
    Wol Euler: we've been here for 90 minutes (at least in theory, I was late)
    Fael Illyar: it's 90 minutes since this one started
    Bellily Millar: oops
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes...ouch... I was in denial in fact...
    Bellily Millar: you all are probably wrapping up then
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Eliza Madrigal: :D
    Wol Euler: aren't we all/always?
    Fael Illyar: being silly :)
    Bellily Millar: fael: your wings are mesmorizing
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Bellily Millar: if you could sum up the most important thing said in the last 90 minutes, what would it be?
    Eliza Madrigal: Bellily, I think we've met once before... maybe not here. Have you been to Play as Being before?
    Bellily Millar: yes, eliza
    Fael Illyar thinks for a moment ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow... a summary? Of the whole session?
    Fael Illyar: ah! meep!
    Bellily Millar: it is the most gratifying SL place for me
    Eliza Madrigal smiles.... certainly for me too :) That's a nice thing to say
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bellily Millar: well, just a little something that i can chew on, but maybe that's asking too much
    Fael Illyar: these are all logged on the web... well, often with a few hours of delay.
    Fael Illyar: sometimes days
    Bellily Millar: oh, i forgot about that. i can just read up
    Wol Euler: we spoke for a long time about bridging the gap between wanting something and taking steps to get it
    Bellily Millar: it's amazing that ya'll post all of this regularly, even with a little delay
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and we encouraged each other a bit... regarding meditation practice... and not feeling overwhelmed
    Wol Euler: like wanting so badly to be a buddhist and a meditator, that one doesn't have the peace of mind to meditate :)
    Bellily Millar: smile
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow, yes Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: actually, you know, this wraps perfectly onto what we were just saying!
    Wol Euler: the little tast of success to overcome the fear of doing something.
    Wol Euler: *taste
    Eliza Madrigal: That it does!
    Fael Illyar: yes, it tends to convince you it's possible to succeed
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, bypassing the self-criticism gland that "knows" that you cannot :)
    Fael Illyar: (that's what makes gambling so addictive)
    Wol Euler: exactly.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, that thing needs a tranquilizer
    Bellily Millar: encouragment is the only way most of us make it through the challenges of life
    Bellily Millar: interesting, fael
    Bellily Millar: that thing?
    Eliza Madrigal: the self-criticism gland
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The 'critic'
    Bellily Millar: oh! indeed it does need a tranquilizer
    Fael Illyar: the judge
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Fael Illyar: many names :)
    Bellily Millar: it's easy to be a critic, harder to be positive
    Wol Euler: oh yes.
    Bellily Millar: ha.. the beast of many names..
    Fael Illyar: yes, easy to point at what's wrong. Less easy to fix that.
    Eliza Madrigal: That's very true Be... it takes courage and trust to be positive
    Eliza Madrigal: and a willingness to be thought of as silly maybe :)
    Fael Illyar: fixing requires understandig.
    Wol Euler: The Smiths said it well: "It's so easy to laugh. It's so easy to hate. It takes guts to be gentle and kind."
    Eliza Madrigal smiles ... very nice
    Fael Illyar: yes, exactly.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes gentle and kind while facing things....
    Fael Illyar: that's the true test of courage.
    Eliza Madrigal: while going through the challenges, not glossing over them
    Wol Euler nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal feels very encouraged today... may tackle some drudgerous paperwork now
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Have fun Eliza.'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, have fun
    Eliza Madrigal waves
    Wol Euler: oh, when did belilly leave?
    Fael Illyar: no idea
    Wol Euler: hehe
    Fael Illyar: somewhere around when eliza went... ah, she's back
    Wol Euler: wb belily
    Fael Illyar: wb belily :)
    Bellily Millar: my computer freaked out
    Fael Illyar: my wings scared it :)
    Bellily Millar: bye eliza, whereever you are...
    Bellily Millar: might be, fael!
    Wol Euler: SL scares computers.
    Bellily Millar: no, they are too beautiful to scare anything
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Bellily Millar: .... i keep typing something and then erasing it...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: or by accident?
    Bellily Millar: i would like to make friends here that i can get to know
    Bellily Millar: how do i do that?
    Wol Euler: oh, just as in RL :)
    Fael Illyar: talk to people :)
    Bellily Millar: beyond showing up here and hoping PaB is in session
    Wol Euler: talk to people, be yourself, listen and respond :)
    Bellily Millar: i don't understand SL very well...
    Bellily Millar: do you just come here or do you do other SL things?
    Fael Illyar: there's plenty to explore in SL.
    Bellily Millar: most of it seems so empty though
    Wol Euler nods. But finding things can be as hard as in RL
    Fael Illyar: It's a place where people can manifest their dreams to pretty impressive extent
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: you can search for events, though.
    Bellily Millar: true that
    Fael Illyar: I guess I'm a good example of that in a way :)
    Wol Euler: and joining groups is a good way to get your friends list jumpstarted
    Bellily Millar: how, fael?
    Fael Illyar points at her wings.
    Bellily Millar: oh
    Bellily Millar: oh
    Fael Illyar: just the most obvious thing to point at but still :)
    Bellily Millar: nods
    Bellily Millar: and i have a parrot now, which i have always wanted
    Wol Euler grins
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Yes.'
    Bellily Millar: but i also think that it is important for me to be as "me" as can be, even in SL
    Fael Illyar: the exact meaning of an appearance is dependant on who chose to put it there.
    Bellily Millar: maybe an enhanced me
    Bellily Millar: nicely said, fael
    Fael Illyar: yet, anyone else is free to interpret as they wish.
    Wol Euler: really, Be? why?
    Bellily Millar: sounds postmodern in a way
    Wol Euler: ok, bu which "me" do you want to be?
    Fael Illyar: I just look around and when I see something I would like to wear and the price is not too high, I buy it.
    Wol Euler: your body, or your soul?
    Wol Euler: and if "soul", which of those? Wol is a kind of sub-me, a minority personality, who found expression here.
    Fael Illyar: I sometimes create things myself too :)
    Fael Illyar: like this flower in my hair (and the flower in the fountain.)
    Bellily Millar: nice!
    Fael Illyar: speaking of which, here's a copy of the flower for you :)
    Bellily Millar: i have just "unmuted" wol - i am sorry, i did not know that i must have muted you --- i missed out on everything you said and feel bad about it
    Wol Euler: ha!
    Bellily Millar: thank you very much!
    Wol Euler: ok, let me repeat :)
    Fael Illyar wonders if this "Show muted text" checkbox is Emerald feature or if it's in official client too...
    Bellily Millar: oh, i'll read... like i said, i am still learning to navigate in this world
    Wol Euler: it's in the official one too
    Wol Euler: since a few versions back
    Wol Euler: my point was that exploration of who you aren't, might reveal other things that you are, currently unknown to you
    Bellily Millar: - that is making my brain smoke, wol! - good point!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: don't worry about it. Exploration is not compulsory.
    Wol Euler: many people use SL only as a way of attending meetings like this one
    Wol Euler: others see it as a chance to explore and grow and experiment (points to self)
    Fael Illyar: yes me too :)
    Fael Illyar: I do a lot of self-exploration here.
    Bellily Millar: how does this life translate into your real lives?
    Bellily Millar: that's too broad a question. scratch it.
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: it can have enormous impact
    Bellily Millar: example?
    Wol Euler: I attended the RL wedding of two people who met in SL, a month ago
    Fael Illyar: it has been life changing
    Fael Illyar: cracking open my shell of fears :)
    Wol Euler smiles and gives your hand a squeeze.
    Wol Euler: it'S certainly making me reconsider some things that I thought absolutely fixed and immutable about my life
    Fael Illyar smiles and squeezes back.
    Bellily Millar: maybe this can be a place to be more real than you are in real life, to admit to so many things and thoughts that are not kosher in polite company... without being rude, i add
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fael Illyar: Yes, exactly :)
    Wol Euler: and without the risks of trying them in RL.
    Fael Illyar: more real than in real life.
    Wol Euler: many people use SL as a kind of practice run for making changes in RL
    Wol Euler: (for certain values of "many")
    Bellily Millar: i have a sudden impulse to confess to picking my nose.
    Bellily Millar: grin
    Wol Euler laughs out loud.
    Fael Illyar smiles 'I can confess to that too!'
    Wol Euler: SL as therapy
    Wol Euler raises her hand and grins
    Bellily Millar: (giggling maddly..... wish i could animate that)
    Wol Euler: oh, there probably is a giggling anim somewhere :)
    Fael Illyar giggles cutely.
    Fael Illyar: no animation but... I do have sound :)
    Bellily Millar: i had an art teacher who made us identify words that are fun to write AND to hear AND to look at in writing. Giggle was that word for me. all those pretty G loops ...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Fael Illyar giggles a lot.
    Bellily Millar: me too
    Fael Illyar: less in these meetings though :)
    Bellily Millar: theres a time for everything
    Fael Illyar: although I might be giggling in RL during :)
    Fael Illyar: but just smile here
    Wol Euler nods
    Bellily Millar: laughing is such a wonderful tonic
    Fael Illyar: beauty of text for communication. Possible to be more polite.
    Wol Euler: or not.
    Wol Euler: people can seem quite breathtakingly rude, because the other clues are missing.
    Wol Euler: (RL clues)
    Bellily Millar: give an example
    Wol Euler: well, making a joke that backfires because the listeners don't see the twinkle in your eye
    Fael Illyar: yes, text does need some skill to use artfully.
    Bellily Millar: hm. ok, chat conversations are strange - my natural rl inclination is to butt in and talk too much. i guess i'm fearing appearing rude here
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Fael Illyar: there's much less need to worry about speaking over others in text :)
    Wol Euler nods. And the reverse is true too.
    Bellily Millar: true again
    Wol Euler: silence in SL is not a "problem", it doesn't make people uneasy as it often seems to do in RL
    Fael Illyar: the only thing to worry about is keeping the volume low enough that it stays low enough to follow
    Wol Euler: which is where IMs come into play :)
    Fael Illyar: it does for some people.
    Bellily Millar: silences make me nervous too. i feel an obligation to continue the stream of words.
    Bellily Millar: and i think the 90sec meditations are very helpful for me learning to rest in silence
    Fael Illyar: I used to :)
    Bellily Millar: versus be nervous about it
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fael Illyar: then I got used to just sitting and being silent.
    Wol Euler: and then there is all the SL body language
    Wol Euler nods for emphasis <-
    Fael Illyar: now I only speak if something comes up on it's own.
    Bellily Millar: (trying that on)
    Fael Illyar: I no longer get all worked up trying to think of what to say.
    Fael Illyar: I let it come, if it comes. If not, that's fine.
    Bellily Millar: deep relaxing breath
    Wol Euler nods
    Fael Illyar: I suggest we take the next 90 second silence :)
    Bellily Millar: ok
    Bellily Millar: my dear sweetlings, thank you for your pleasant company
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: my pleasure, Belily, nice to meet you.
    Fael Illyar: my pleasure too. Nice to meet you :)
    Fael Illyar: I hope to see you here again :)
    Wol Euler: I shall move on too, goodnight to you both.
    Bellily Millar: i need to check the schedule of these events... i just happen upon them
    Bellily Millar: love and smiles to you both, aloha and blessings
    Wol Euler: bye for now
    Fael Illyar: 4 times every day :)
    Fael Illyar waves happily.
    Bellily Millar: i want to touch your wings.... hehehe
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fael Illyar: (it's a hug)
    Bellily Millar: aw! thank you!
    Bellily Millar: how do you do that?
    Bellily Millar: oh, I'll figure it out eventually.... really off now. love to you all
    Fael Illyar: the hug? I have a hug device :)
    Bellily Millar: HA! a hug device! brilliant!
    Bellily Millar: thank you again!
    Fael Illyar: have a nice time :)
    Fael Illyar smiles and waves.
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