2009.09.08 13:00 - We Arrive, Appreciate and Go

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

    It was a light and airy session , more like friends arriving at a local pub and

    sharing a few thoughts. Usually I am focussed on what interesting

    phenomena we may discuss but clearly here we are a community of people

    with diverse backgrounds from all corners of the world enjoying each others

    company. How fantastic !


    arabella Ella: so how are you guys tonite?
    Bertram Jacobus: strange. suddenly i couldn´t log in to my world of warcraft account anymore. and now i try to reinstall and that seems to need hours
    arabella Ella: oh nooooo Bert!
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m a technical desaster or something like that ... :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: why no ? :o)
    Mickorod Renard: he he ,,me too at the momment
    arabella Ella: it is just patience you need i guess
    Bertram Jacobus: i would like to have a bit more understanding, too ...
    Maxine Walden: feel like things are falling apart, Bert, and maybe a bit more understanding might help?
    arabella Ella: i dont think any of us feel we have the right technical expertise ... i personally feel we always need practice, skill, time and practice
    Maxine Walden: always at the beginning...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey paul
    Bertram Jacobus: hy paul ... ;-)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Paul
    Bertram Jacobus: i feel more and more like a human from the past, from yesterday or even earlier ...
    Maxine Walden: oh, Bertram?
    Bertram Jacobus: modern world is so ... strange in some ways ...
    arabella Ella: Bert if you were a human from the past you would not be on SL would you?
    Maxine Walden: hmmm
    Bertram Jacobus: right. but it doesn´t feel very comfortable to me. some things are "too fast", some "too slow" ...
    Bertram Jacobus: some too complicated ... ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: I know what u mean Bert
    arabella Ella: we are living in changing times no doubt
    Maxine Walden: pacing doesn't seem to synch with your comfort zone?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ara. that´s what i may mean ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: I have commented before that I dont think mankind,,or even womankind has the ability to evolve quick enough for the changes that we face today
    arabella Ella: (humans?)
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: Well about change ... change is scarey for most as it involves loss ... loss of comfort zone as Maxine said
    arabella Ella: loss of habitual ways of doing things
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and welcome doug
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Bertram Jacobus: and yes maxine : i don´t like when life is "too fast" ...
    doug Sosa: hi, sorry late, that kind of day, 2.5 hr drive.
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,tiring too Bert
    doug Sosa: paul had about fifteeen hours or soemthin..!
    Maxine Walden: Paul had a 15 hour drive?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: he was here plenty of times :)
    doug Sosa: yes but he just flew from San Francisco to Copenhagen.. (or frankfurt).
    Maxine Walden: ah, several of us seem to be having trouble with pacing, racing, maybe just making things fit, ourselves fit into human schedules...maybe we all feel a bit 'misfit' in terms of the lives we lead
    Mickorod Renard: so,,has anything interesting happened to anyone today?
    Mickorod Renard: sorry,,lag Maxine
    Maxine Walden: np, Mick...good question
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,life is forever changing,,just as you get older and think everything is all undercontrol,,things change
    Bellily Millar: true dat
    arabella Ella: today is a public holiday here and i had a lovely relaxing day on a boat, swimming, snorkeling and sunbathing
    Bellily Millar: nice, arabella
    Maxine Walden: when there is change there is little control it seems
    Bertram Jacobus: "everything under control" !? - in contrary (!) ... :o)
    Maxine Walden: or so it feels
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,sometimes it looks like we are in control,,I think thats to some degree chance
    Paul Namiboo: I had to go out and reenter SL -- maybe its my hotel wifi from Sweden!
    Maxine Walden: ah, Stockholm?
    Paul Namiboo: I'm here for meetings following a typiucal United Airlines adventure
    doug Sosa: ha, side conversation here.. in RL.. sorry.
    Mickorod Renard: was it a traumatic trip then Paul?
    Maxine Walden: many strands of conversation here usually, spanning RL and SL
    Paul Namiboo: Only if you don't like to sprint 45 minutes in the awful Frankfurt airport after UA has delivered you there late -- rather be on PaB
    Maxine Walden: airport headaches!!
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,and frankfurt is soooooo big
    arabella Ella: oh yea i know the feeling
    Mickorod Renard: as an airport
    Maxine Walden: large airport headaches
    doug Sosa: the rl-Sl interesection - more and more for me they blend, like am oriental rug.
    arabella Ella: altho german airports are excellent if you fly their airline and have a connection with the same airline
    Paul Namiboo: well, at least I got some exercise!
    arabella Ella: :)
    Bellily Millar: i like the oriental rug mention, arabella
    Bellily Millar: there are so many metaphors in rug knotting..
    Maxine Walden: interesting image, doug, a kind of tapestry mixing the orient and the occident?
    Bellily Millar: thirsty, paul?
    Bellily Millar: lol
    Paul Namiboo: And I did do some contemplating after I finally got on my Stockholm flite
    arabella Ella: would you like to share your contemplation Paul?
    Bellily Millar: do you all like or loathe airports?
    Paul Namiboo: Pila got me the bottle of 45 Mounton some time ago, and it never seems to run dry!
    Bellily Millar: grin, paul
    Wol Euler: both, belily, often at the same time.
    arabella Ella: i hate airports would prefer teleportation :)
    Maxine Walden: the perfect drink!!
    Bellily Millar: airports are neat in that they offer lots of people watching, everyone on some journey
    Paul Namiboo: I was trying t thik of things (besides meeting biological needs) that oulw most likely bind all people together -- to make maximum use of our mirror neurons
    Wol Euler: oh dear.
    Bellily Millar: HA!
    arabella Ella: hey Bert whassup?
    Bellily Millar: what was that, bertram??
    arabella Ella: strong beer?
    Paul Namiboo: oulw - would
    Bertram Jacobus: sry - the duff you know ... wanted to accompany paul abit with drinking ... :o)
    arabella Ella: did you come to any conclusions or insights Paul, interesting reflection?
    Bellily Millar: that's too funny!
    Maxine Walden: mirror neurons, Bert and Paul
    Bertram Jacobus: sry (hicks)
    Bellily Millar: airports also make me think of other public tranport places... like bus stops ... there's something about the classes meeting..
    Bellily Millar: oops. zipping it.
    Paul Namiboo: Bascially we all have powerful neural mechanisms that help generate empathy -- but they also seem to be tied to generating us vs. them -- that is empathy only for the in group members
    doug Sosa: I loved the metro in DC, the mix of people moving from one ethnically narow section to another for work or going home.
    doug Sosa: empthy tied to real needs for affiliation to lower anxiety.
    arabella Ella: so Paul are you suggesting that mirror neurons reinforce the us versus them mentality?
    Maxine Walden: yes, Paul, I think about that a lot: the us vs them seems so ancient and tribal, as if perhaps coming before mirror neurons
    Paul Namiboo: Sadly we (or at least I) don't know enuf, but they're surely interrelated
    Bellily Millar: vulnerability is the antithesis of us-vs-them
    Maxine Walden: For me true empathy requires the experience of being held in mind...to trigger a feeling that is other than miming, even with mirror neurons
    Paul Namiboo: I used to think TV and the web would bind Homo sapiens into a single us -- but now I'm not so sure. But look how easily the diversity of PaB attendeed has sort of made a "family"
    Bellily Millar: smiling at paul
    Wol Euler: depends where you look to see that "diversity", Paul. In some respects we are a very homogenous group.
    Paul Namiboo: I agree Maxine
    Maxine Walden: yes, perhaps a common task, but also a kind of trust that our differences will enrich rather then divide
    Bellily Millar: agree maxine
    Maxine Walden: agree, Wol. And what makes for our homogeneity? Trust?
    Wol Euler nods. That trust is itself one of our defining commonalities, IMHO
    Bertram Jacobus: differences are diversity ...
    Mickorod Renard: I agree Wol,,trust here is odd,,but real I think
    Paul Namiboo: The world often seems to be bimpodal -- those of us who prize diversity, and thos who can't stand it
    arabella Ella: i think a great deal has to do with trust, honesty, empathy and good will
    Wol Euler nods
    arabella Ella: but i think a lot of the us versus them issues arise as a result of a variety of agendas, some hidden, others not
    Bertram Jacobus: i see diversity simply as a fact first
    arabella Ella: i love diversity
    arabella Ella: unity in diversity to be more precise
    Maxine Walden: and perhaps not being enslaved by the fantasy that difference is 'bad', the 'not me' carrying all my unwanted parts
    Paul Namiboo: Uniformity is sooo boring
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ara :-)
    Wol Euler: yes, maxine, well said.
    Mickorod Renard: I think most of us here share inquisitive minds,,maybe that is a common factor
    arabella Ella: :)
    Maxine Walden: agree, Mick
    Paul Namiboo: I think most Hs do, but some cultures/groups kill it. Just look at the young kids in any cukture
    Bellily Millar: then it's an age thing
    Maxine Walden: the new idea, often coming with the young, often is hated by the old establishment
    arabella Ella: is that not a consequence of the influence of mass media (with its own agenda) and consumerism?
    Bellily Millar: we grow out of needing uniformity
    Paul Namiboo: Well, I suspect it takes work to kill it -- and thus time
    Maxine Walden: how difficult it can be for us as humans to remain in uncertainty, open to the new idea; it means we forsake 'certainty' for ever-possilbe doubt but also openness to the new
    doug Sosa: Instead of killing the killers, better to invite them to the dance :)
    Paul Namiboo: And there are brain mechanisms that do move us away from uncert and tward stereotyping -- saves effort
    Bellily Millar: nice, doug!
    Maxine Walden: indeed, saves effort and is more efficient in terms of survival: certainty and the unchanging
    Bellily Millar: all the stereotyping and quest for uniformity comes from that middle-school us-vs-them mentality. or so i think
    arabella Ella: dont we have to ask what makes the brain get into such habits of thinking and how can we get out of them and embrace uncertainty?
    Maxine Walden: good questions!
    Paul Namiboo: Hate to leave this wonderful group and nice spot for a hotel room, but I've got to get some sleep before working. Thanks as ever for your patience and wisdom. Bye!
    Maxine Walden: meditative group?
    Bertram Jacobus: why not ? :-)
    Wol Euler counts her breaths.
    Bertram Jacobus: hears the sl birds
    Maxine Walden: lovely sounds, the birds
    Wol Euler: I'm glad that this place will remain in the land shakeup.
    arabella Ella: me too
    Maxine Walden: yes, agree, wol
    doug Sosa: quiet mind, noisy world. The understand the noisy world a quiet mind is necessary.
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    doug Sosa: To understand a quiet mind (here comes the radical part) a noisy world is necessary.
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Maxine Walden: think so, doug?
    Mickorod Renard: interesting thought Doug
    doug Sosa: yes. its like living in paradise, without comparisons, you can't be conscious tat you are in parapsie
    Maxine Walden: hmmm
    doug Sosa: tat = that
    arabella Ella: sounds right but ... would it imply (I hope not) that to understand or feel peace we need war (or conflict)?
    doug Sosa: parapsie - paradise, of course.
    Wol Euler rather liked "parapsie" actually.
    Maxine Walden: lights and shadows need each other?
    doug Sosa: yes. but without war we wouldn't waste time being conscious of peace, we would just be peaceful and ..well, in the gade, weeds and fruits - conflict again..
    doug Sosa: gare = garden
    Bertram Jacobus: i think all relative aspects have their contrary parts, but if there is something absolute - it won´t have such a relation to something else. must not have it. would be free
    Maxine Walden: we do seem to designate who/what are the weeds
    Wol Euler: us/them again.
    Maxine Walden: yes, wol
    Bellily Millar: I wonder how things we don't see influence us... is there a conflict state that we don't even recognize b/c we can't see it/feel it..
    Maxine Walden: interesting thought, Bellily
    Wol Euler: generations of psychologists would agree, belily :)
    Bellily Millar: when my knee doesn't hurt, i am not aware of it at all and don't count the blessings of it now hurting..
    Bellily Millar: now = not
    Bellily Millar: the peace we aspire to through or despite the pain, that's the peace that is so poignant
    Maxine Walden: indeed
    Mickorod Renard: yes, its sometimes that invisible feeling we get from others that make us feel good,,
    Maxine Walden: dear friends, I have to go in a moment, have a dream workshop at kira cafe at 2pmSL. Please come if you can; otherwise I look forward to more of this wonderful conversation soon
    Bellily Millar: i step away from the computer and there's a grand exodus
    Bellily Millar: oy
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: that happens sometimes, there are strange tides in the world(s)
    Bellily Millar: doug: why are you stooped over like that?
    Wol Euler: he's gone away, hasn't moved his keyboard or mouse in 15 minutes
    Wol Euler: so his av goes to sleep
    Bellily Millar: strange tides indeed., wol. life is so interesting and gets more interesting by the moment
    Wol Euler: indeed it does.
    Bellily Millar: oh
    Wol Euler: fortunately.
    Bellily Millar: thanks for explaining
    Wol Euler: yw
    Wol Euler: I have a well-developed public-service gland.
    Bellily Millar: haha! you are indeed very gifted!
    Bellily Millar: i might sneak off as well. no, i am not tired of this place or the company, but i have a few RL chores to accomplish this afternoon.
    Wol Euler: sure :)
    Bellily Millar: and i hope to see you, wol, and the rest soon at this very place.
    Bellily Millar: peace and blessings to you!
    Wol Euler: you too, belily, enjoy the day.
    Bellily Millar: grin!

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