2009.09.10 13:00 - If we are all the same, why do we act as though we're different?

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind.

Wol Euler: thursday 10 september, 1pm
--BELL--
Qt Core: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello qt, nice to see you again
Qt Core: hi Storm
Wol Euler: hello storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys :)
Qt Core: (drooling on the new images taken by Hubble... and i didn't even got to the hires one)
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: Please keep your drool out of the pool. The lotus is very sensitive :)
Wol Euler chuckles.
Qt Core: :-P
Storm Nordwind: Last week Pema got me to recall my impressions of the retreat. I guess everyone's impressions are in, and meanwhile attention has shifted to guardian plots (I guess)
Wol Euler: .)
Storm Nordwind: I am waiting for Pema to normalise the land ownership in this sim, and then I can start offering plots to everyone
Qt Core: hi Archmage
Wol Euler: why surprising, Arch? we meet here every day.
Storm Nordwind: Hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hallucinations, they come and they go *smile*
Storm Nordwind: I've moved the Play as Being monument over here already
Storm Nordwind: And my own observatory (which is my guardian plot)
Storm Nordwind: We'll have space for 48 guardian plots in the Play as Being village, more if I extend beyond the sim boundary
Qt Core: i tp here from map and i think i apparated inside a column/obelisk
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: Yeah, I'll change the landing point!
Storm Nordwind: The idea will be to have a lot of communal areas, one within each set of plots
Wol Euler: are those the plots behind us, Storm?
Storm Nordwind: If you can see slabs of rock, yes
Wol Euler smiles and nods
Wol Euler: an interestting layout.
Wol Euler: looks very village-ish and communal
Archmage Atlantis: Actually, hallucinating, they look like the Junipers planted on gravesites from here
Storm Nordwind: Hard to make it truly village-like in a conventional European way
Archmage Atlantis: In the old south
Storm Nordwind: Hallucination is not often an accurate guide to reality...
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: but what is? :)
Wol Euler: wow, there's an amazing amount of crud floating above Bieup!
Wol Euler: one of the advantages of normally keeping your draw ditsance low, is that you don't have to look at such things.
Storm Nordwind: You may have seen the tower of the person I'm negotiating with, Wol
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: There was an interesting comment from Eos last week. I wonder if you remember Wol. He said how the effect of the retreat had been a lasting change in the way he saw things.
Wol Euler: oh! nice.
Wol Euler: did he elaborate on that?
Storm Nordwind: Not enough sadly. I was hoping he was going to be here today to perhaps go further into it
Qt Core: almost every experience change our poit of view (maybe the smaller ones in way we don't notice)
Storm Nordwind: That is true Qt
Wol Euler nods
Storm Nordwind: perhaps that is the way we learn. Not by accumulating knowledge as in a library, but by gradually changing the shape of ourselves
Archmage Atlantis: True, QT, but rarely enough that we remark on it to others in a group
Qt Core: while i was flying back from china i had a (little ) rude epiphany
Wol Euler: hot water running over a block of Jello was one image I heard.
Wol Euler: mmm?
Storm Nordwind: Please share with us Qt
Storm Nordwind: (I prefer knapping flint off a stone to make an axehead, Wol - but I'm showing my heathen heritage!)
Qt Core: it was an idea flashing in my mind... "me/our and them (the chinese)... can't be so different... we all use the same kind of toilet paper (i told you it was a little rude)
Wol Euler laughs
Wol Euler laughs again
Storm Nordwind laughs
Archmage Atlantis: There is nothing rude in that QT
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Archmage Atlantis: The RL body exists as a common denominator
Qt Core: for me it summarized the idas that we may be/seem so differen but being humans we are all the same
Qt Core: ideas
Storm Nordwind: When I was young, my grandma told me that even the Queen has to go to the toilet :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Archmage Atlantis: My ex bro in law saw tp as an expendable expense
Wol Euler: I suppose one might use newsprint...
Wol Euler: The Sun comes to mind ;)
Archmage Atlantis: We met a rental agent here who picks it out of the toidy to save the septic system drain field
Storm Nordwind: Humans are very keen on separation and differences. It causes so many problems. And we often see those differences as lending our own "self" extra importance. But whatever your highs, lows, successes and problems, in general one thousand million Chinese could not care less!
Wol Euler: sure, and 99.38% of your neighbours too.
Archmage Atlantis: I believe that is 99.3765430298 %
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes Wol. Are you trying to prove that on average 73.87% of statistics are made up on the spur of the moment?
Archmage Atlantis: Actually
Wol Euler: of course!
Wol Euler: but I bet I am within one significant deviation of the right answer.
Wol Euler: *standard deviation
Archmage Atlantis: I don't know, significant fit better
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: I am now living in a country which is mostly unaware of the other 95% of the world's population <rolls>
Wol Euler: yeah, I hear you.
Archmage Atlantis: As long as we have bigger guns, doesn't matter........I was reading about the Punic wars today
Storm Nordwind: But we have usurped your epiphany Qt, sorry.
Qt Core: np
Qt Core: haven't you enough of todays wars ? :-)
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: I have had enough war to last 60,000 years
Archmage Atlantis: And First Premier wants to give me another credit card
Wol Euler grins
Wol Euler: perhaps your cat needs it more?
Archmage Atlantis: He can't read the labels
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps you can Play as Being Creditworthy :)
Archmage Atlantis: He'd still want me to take care of things
Wol Euler: hehehehehe
Wol Euler: I think lots of people are playing that one these days, Storm.
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
Archmage Atlantis: Been there, done that, 3x in this life space - the house always eventually wins
Storm Nordwind: So Qt... if it were true that underneath it all we are the same, what do you think it is that makes people act otherwise?
Archmage Atlantis: Good, good question Storm
Qt Core: several thousands years of diverging culture and learned values
Archmage Atlantis: Evolution then, QT?
Qt Core: no, culture
Storm Nordwind: Interesting. Values are learned therefore? That might imply there were no absolute rights or wrongs. What do you think?
Archmage Atlantis: The evolutionary psychologists speak of memes as the geneticists do of genes
Storm Nordwind has never yet met a psychologist that he didn't want to smack around the head! ;)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Qt Core: i think some are innate, the most basic ones, like the. "the neares to my family a person is the more i have not to kill him"deriving from the ape-like times
Archmage Atlantis: What of the "hier and the spare" stategy of survival
Storm Nordwind: So when people from different cultures come to Play as Being practice and explorations, would we expect them to have different experiences, or might we expect them to find a unifying experience with others? Or perhaps we would not be able to tell?
Wol Euler: d) all of the above.
Qt Core: i'll vote for the unable to tell and for the same experience but reached from different paths
Storm Nordwind smiles at Wol
Archmage Atlantis: I must go......very, very interestion discussion.......
Wol Euler: experience and the chat logs show that there are great similarities...
Storm Nordwind: Interesting idea Qt
Archmage Atlantis: Bye all
Wol Euler: bye arch, take care.
Storm Nordwind waves
Storm Nordwind: Good point Wol
Storm Nordwind: Although we are necessarily limiting ourselves culturally in Second Life
Wol Euler: hello ara, mick.
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol Qt and Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys!
Qt Core: Hi ara
Mickorod Renard: hiya guys
Qt Core: Hi gray Mick
arabella Ella hopes we are not disturbing anything
Wol Euler grins and shakes her ead.
Wol Euler: +h
arabella Ella: he he
Mickorod Renard: I feel a bit guilty now for not taking the land here,,and supporting Pema
Wol Euler: must have been a flashback to my time in london
arabella Ella: flashback?
Wol Euler: the dropped aitch.
arabella Ella: ah
--BELL--
arabella Ella: Hiya Yak
Storm Nordwind: Well Mick, all guardians will have a new guardian plot on offer for their use (if they wish) within the next few days, right here on this sim. I've already moved mine here.
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Qt Core: Hi Yak
Mickorod Renard: hi Yaku
Mickorod Renard: I wont
Mickorod Renard: sorry,,wrong box
Wol Euler: :)
Storm Nordwind: So you weren't interrupting. I was trying and failing to prod the conversation into erudite philosophical avenues, but I guess I'm as sleepy as the rest! ;)
Wol Euler: :)
Mickorod Renard: but seeing that it has been financially dificult it seemed like I could have been more social
arabella Ella: u could always try again Storm in the time left
arabella Ella: :)
Storm Nordwind: Your turn ara :-P ;)
arabella Ella: ouch
Wol Euler: The Fourteen Minute Erudition, it has a vaguely Maoist ring...
arabella Ella: i am ... as the brits say ... nackered
Storm Nordwind laughs
Storm Nordwind: Yes we do ara!
arabella Ella: ok so may i ask a question ... here goes
arabella Ella: how do you guys see the future of adult education?
arabella Ella: particularly at uni level?
arabella Ella: say in 10 years time
Storm Nordwind: Well you have plenty of opportunity now to make amends Mick! behind you are 46 spare guardian plots that I'll be releasing in a day or two
Storm Nordwind: Wow big question ara! Good one too :)
arabella Ella: ten mins of erudition to go :)
arabella Ella: any offers?
arabella Ella: or any take ups?
Qt Core: (inexistant for the lack of funding of universities, here in italy)
Storm Nordwind: More online study and project work, that's for sure
Mickorod Renard: I think we will all become stupid instead,,as it may be more environmentaly favourable
Storm Nordwind: More work related degree study contracts at, say, Masters level
arabella Ella: interesting
arabella Ella: please go on
Storm Nordwind: Well I studied for a Masters degree within the last 5 years. It was a work based degree and was like a contract between uni and employer with me as the beneficiary
arabella Ella: wow that is cool
Mickorod Renard: sounds good Storm
Storm Nordwind: So the idea was that 2/3 of the degree credits would be project related
Storm Nordwind: and the project would have direct relevance and benfit to the employer
arabella Ella: and Qt, at least Italy has a couple of universities in the top 200 league internationally, bologna for sure
Mickorod Renard: like an elaborate nvq?
Wol Euler: that is interesting, storm.
arabella Ella: do you mind if i ask what the name of the degree is storm?
Storm Nordwind: Much more transferable than an nvq Mick
arabella Ella: and was it delivered via e-learning?
arabella Ella: or did you have weekend face to face sessions?
Storm Nordwind: The degree was Life Long Learning - I chose it because I had transfered from being an engineer to being an educator who tried to teach engineers how to be human beings!
Qt Core: lately the only italian uni i read that was appreciated outside italy was Bocconi (one of the few private one and mostly dedicated to economics)
Storm Nordwind: There was some face to face lecturing. Some was on line
Wol Euler: heheheheh
arabella Ella: hey Storm that is such a tough task ... i have done that too with engineers! Definitely not easy
Wol Euler: I know a few engineers who could benefit from that.
Storm Nordwind: Failing that ara, I'm nearly always bigger than them, so slapping them about was always an option :)
arabella Ella: Oh Qt then it is Bocconi and Bologna ... and believe me besides UK and USA Unis there are only 4 or 5 EU unis on the list of the top 200
Wol Euler: (and few architects, and a musician, and some teachers... it's not JUST engineers, they are merely the most obvious examples
Storm Nordwind is a Bad Buddhist for even thinking of slapping engineers about
arabella Ella: engineers i find tend to think too analytically and they often totally disregard people problems
Qt Core: i was told several time i'm an engineer at heart ;-)
Mickorod Renard: I read recently that most terrorists and suicide bombers are engineers
Storm Nordwind: I was always the misfit ara. I always thought non-linearly and irrationally!
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: Well Storm ... having heard a few stories from the retreat i think i understand what you mean about slapping engineers :)
Qt Core: many terrorist attacks are quite complex to carry out
arabella Ella: and it is so important today to think non linearly
Qt Core: so the presence of high skilled people isn't so surprising
Mickorod Renard: yes,,maybe its best done by an engineer
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind pretends not to understand what ara is talking about regarding the retreat
Wol Euler: :)
arabella Ella: not necessarily ... you need a group of people with various complementary skills for terrorism to be successful
Storm Nordwind points out STim's workshop is starting
arabella Ella: ooooops
arabella Ella whispers ... technical and non technical skills
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya at wok or bye everyone
Mickorod Renard: bye yaku
Storm Nordwind: Anyone else for WOK?
Qt Core: (the other side of Mission Impossible teams...)
arabella Ella: must be off to Stim's workshop bye everyone
Mickorod Renard: yes please
Wol Euler: bye everyone, I must move on too.
Mickorod Renard: bye wol
Qt Core: bye all, have fun
Storm Nordwind: That looks like it then
Mickorod Renard: bye qt
Storm Nordwind waves
Storm Nordwind: Bye all. Back to work here :)
Qt Core: and i'll be back seeing the place (never did it shame on me)
Storm Nordwind smiles
</rolls>