2009.09.10 13:00 - If we are all the same, why do we act as though we're different?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind.

    Wol Euler: thursday 10 september, 1pm
    Qt Core: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello qt, nice to see you again
    Qt Core: hi Storm
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi guys :)
    Qt Core: (drooling on the new images taken by Hubble... and i didn't even got to the hires one)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Please keep your drool out of the pool. The lotus is very sensitive :)
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Qt Core: :-P
    Storm Nordwind: Last week Pema got me to recall my impressions of the retreat. I guess everyone's impressions are in, and meanwhile attention has shifted to guardian plots (I guess)
    Wol Euler: .)
    Storm Nordwind: I am waiting for Pema to normalise the land ownership in this sim, and then I can start offering plots to everyone
    Qt Core: hi Archmage
    Wol Euler: why surprising, Arch? we meet here every day.
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hallucinations, they come and they go *smile*
    Storm Nordwind: I've moved the Play as Being monument over here already
    Storm Nordwind: And my own observatory (which is my guardian plot)
    Storm Nordwind: We'll have space for 48 guardian plots in the Play as Being village, more if I extend beyond the sim boundary
    Qt Core: i tp here from map and i think i apparated inside a column/obelisk
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Yeah, I'll change the landing point!
    Storm Nordwind: The idea will be to have a lot of communal areas, one within each set of plots
    Wol Euler: are those the plots behind us, Storm?
    Storm Nordwind: If you can see slabs of rock, yes
    Wol Euler smiles and nods
    Wol Euler: an interestting layout.
    Wol Euler: looks very village-ish and communal
    Archmage Atlantis: Actually, hallucinating, they look like the Junipers planted on gravesites from here
    Storm Nordwind: Hard to make it truly village-like in a conventional European way
    Archmage Atlantis: In the old south
    Storm Nordwind: Hallucination is not often an accurate guide to reality...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: but what is? :)
    Wol Euler: wow, there's an amazing amount of crud floating above Bieup!
    Wol Euler: one of the advantages of normally keeping your draw ditsance low, is that you don't have to look at such things.
    Storm Nordwind: You may have seen the tower of the person I'm negotiating with, Wol
    Storm Nordwind: There was an interesting comment from Eos last week. I wonder if you remember Wol. He said how the effect of the retreat had been a lasting change in the way he saw things.
    Wol Euler: oh! nice.
    Wol Euler: did he elaborate on that?
    Storm Nordwind: Not enough sadly. I was hoping he was going to be here today to perhaps go further into it
    Qt Core: almost every experience change our poit of view (maybe the smaller ones in way we don't notice)
    Storm Nordwind: That is true Qt
    Wol Euler nods
    Storm Nordwind: perhaps that is the way we learn. Not by accumulating knowledge as in a library, but by gradually changing the shape of ourselves
    Archmage Atlantis: True, QT, but rarely enough that we remark on it to others in a group
    Qt Core: while i was flying back from china i had a (little ) rude epiphany
    Wol Euler: hot water running over a block of Jello was one image I heard.
    Wol Euler: mmm?
    Storm Nordwind: Please share with us Qt
    Storm Nordwind: (I prefer knapping flint off a stone to make an axehead, Wol - but I'm showing my heathen heritage!)
    Qt Core: it was an idea flashing in my mind... "me/our and them (the chinese)... can't be so different... we all use the same kind of toilet paper (i told you it was a little rude)
    Wol Euler laughs
    Wol Euler laughs again
    Storm Nordwind laughs
    Archmage Atlantis: There is nothing rude in that QT
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Archmage Atlantis: The RL body exists as a common denominator
    Qt Core: for me it summarized the idas that we may be/seem so differen but being humans we are all the same
    Qt Core: ideas
    Storm Nordwind: When I was young, my grandma told me that even the Queen has to go to the toilet :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Archmage Atlantis: My ex bro in law saw tp as an expendable expense
    Wol Euler: I suppose one might use newsprint...
    Wol Euler: The Sun comes to mind ;)
    Archmage Atlantis: We met a rental agent here who picks it out of the toidy to save the septic system drain field
    Storm Nordwind: Humans are very keen on separation and differences. It causes so many problems. And we often see those differences as lending our own "self" extra importance. But whatever your highs, lows, successes and problems, in general one thousand million Chinese could not care less!
    Wol Euler: sure, and 99.38% of your neighbours too.
    Archmage Atlantis: I believe that is 99.3765430298 %
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes Wol. Are you trying to prove that on average 73.87% of statistics are made up on the spur of the moment?
    Archmage Atlantis: Actually
    Wol Euler: of course!
    Wol Euler: but I bet I am within one significant deviation of the right answer.
    Wol Euler: *standard deviation
    Archmage Atlantis: I don't know, significant fit better
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: I am now living in a country which is mostly unaware of the other 95% of the world's population <rolls>
    Wol Euler: yeah, I hear you.
    Archmage Atlantis: As long as we have bigger guns, doesn't matter........I was reading about the Punic wars today
    Storm Nordwind: But we have usurped your epiphany Qt, sorry.
    Qt Core: np
    Qt Core: haven't you enough of todays wars ? :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: I have had enough war to last 60,000 years
    Archmage Atlantis: And First Premier wants to give me another credit card
    Wol Euler grins
    Wol Euler: perhaps your cat needs it more?
    Archmage Atlantis: He can't read the labels
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps you can Play as Being Creditworthy :)
    Archmage Atlantis: He'd still want me to take care of things
    Wol Euler: hehehehehe
    Wol Euler: I think lots of people are playing that one these days, Storm.
    Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
    Archmage Atlantis: Been there, done that, 3x in this life space - the house always eventually wins
    Storm Nordwind: So Qt... if it were true that underneath it all we are the same, what do you think it is that makes people act otherwise?
    Archmage Atlantis: Good, good question Storm
    Qt Core: several thousands years of diverging culture and learned values
    Archmage Atlantis: Evolution then, QT?
    Qt Core: no, culture
    Storm Nordwind: Interesting. Values are learned therefore? That might imply there were no absolute rights or wrongs. What do you think?
    Archmage Atlantis: The evolutionary psychologists speak of memes as the geneticists do of genes
    Storm Nordwind has never yet met a psychologist that he didn't want to smack around the head! ;)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Qt Core: i think some are innate, the most basic ones, like the. "the neares to my family a person is the more i have not to kill him"deriving from the ape-like times
    Archmage Atlantis: What of the "hier and the spare" stategy of survival
    Storm Nordwind: So when people from different cultures come to Play as Being practice and explorations, would we expect them to have different experiences, or might we expect them to find a unifying experience with others? Or perhaps we would not be able to tell?
    Wol Euler: d) all of the above.
    Qt Core: i'll vote for the unable to tell and for the same experience but reached from different paths
    Storm Nordwind smiles at Wol
    Archmage Atlantis: I must go......very, very interestion discussion.......
    Wol Euler: experience and the chat logs show that there are great similarities...
    Storm Nordwind: Interesting idea Qt
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye all
    Wol Euler: bye arch, take care.
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Storm Nordwind: Good point Wol
    Storm Nordwind: Although we are necessarily limiting ourselves culturally in Second Life
    Wol Euler: hello ara, mick.
    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol Qt and Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi guys!
    Qt Core: Hi ara
    Mickorod Renard: hiya guys
    Qt Core: Hi gray Mick
    arabella Ella hopes we are not disturbing anything
    Wol Euler grins and shakes her ead.
    Wol Euler: +h
    arabella Ella: he he
    Mickorod Renard: I feel a bit guilty now for not taking the land here,,and supporting Pema
    Wol Euler: must have been a flashback to my time in london
    arabella Ella: flashback?
    Wol Euler: the dropped aitch.
    arabella Ella: ah
    arabella Ella: Hiya Yak
    Storm Nordwind: Well Mick, all guardians will have a new guardian plot on offer for their use (if they wish) within the next few days, right here on this sim. I've already moved mine here.
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Qt Core: Hi Yak
    Mickorod Renard: hi Yaku
    Mickorod Renard: I wont
    Mickorod Renard: sorry,,wrong box
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: So you weren't interrupting. I was trying and failing to prod the conversation into erudite philosophical avenues, but I guess I'm as sleepy as the rest! ;)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: but seeing that it has been financially dificult it seemed like I could have been more social
    arabella Ella: u could always try again Storm in the time left
    arabella Ella: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Your turn ara :-P ;)
    arabella Ella: ouch
    Wol Euler: The Fourteen Minute Erudition, it has a vaguely Maoist ring...
    arabella Ella: i am ... as the brits say ... nackered
    Storm Nordwind laughs
    Storm Nordwind: Yes we do ara!
    arabella Ella: ok so may i ask a question ... here goes
    arabella Ella: how do you guys see the future of adult education?
    arabella Ella: particularly at uni level?
    arabella Ella: say in 10 years time
    Storm Nordwind: Well you have plenty of opportunity now to make amends Mick! behind you are 46 spare guardian plots that I'll be releasing in a day or two
    Storm Nordwind: Wow big question ara! Good one too :)
    arabella Ella: ten mins of erudition to go :)
    arabella Ella: any offers?
    arabella Ella: or any take ups?
    Qt Core: (inexistant for the lack of funding of universities, here in italy)
    Storm Nordwind: More online study and project work, that's for sure
    Mickorod Renard: I think we will all become stupid instead,,as it may be more environmentaly favourable
    Storm Nordwind: More work related degree study contracts at, say, Masters level
    arabella Ella: interesting
    arabella Ella: please go on
    Storm Nordwind: Well I studied for a Masters degree within the last 5 years. It was a work based degree and was like a contract between uni and employer with me as the beneficiary
    arabella Ella: wow that is cool
    Mickorod Renard: sounds good Storm
    Storm Nordwind: So the idea was that 2/3 of the degree credits would be project related
    Storm Nordwind: and the project would have direct relevance and benfit to the employer
    arabella Ella: and Qt, at least Italy has a couple of universities in the top 200 league internationally, bologna for sure
    Mickorod Renard: like an elaborate nvq?
    Wol Euler: that is interesting, storm.
    arabella Ella: do you mind if i ask what the name of the degree is storm?
    Storm Nordwind: Much more transferable than an nvq Mick
    arabella Ella: and was it delivered via e-learning?
    arabella Ella: or did you have weekend face to face sessions?
    Storm Nordwind: The degree was Life Long Learning - I chose it because I had transfered from being an engineer to being an educator who tried to teach engineers how to be human beings!
    Qt Core: lately the only italian uni i read that was appreciated outside italy was Bocconi (one of the few private one and mostly dedicated to economics)
    Storm Nordwind: There was some face to face lecturing. Some was on line
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    arabella Ella: hey Storm that is such a tough task ... i have done that too with engineers! Definitely not easy
    Wol Euler: I know a few engineers who could benefit from that.
    Storm Nordwind: Failing that ara, I'm nearly always bigger than them, so slapping them about was always an option :)
    arabella Ella: Oh Qt then it is Bocconi and Bologna ... and believe me besides UK and USA Unis there are only 4 or 5 EU unis on the list of the top 200
    Wol Euler: (and few architects, and a musician, and some teachers... it's not JUST engineers, they are merely the most obvious examples
    Storm Nordwind is a Bad Buddhist for even thinking of slapping engineers about
    arabella Ella: engineers i find tend to think too analytically and they often totally disregard people problems
    Qt Core: i was told several time i'm an engineer at heart ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: I read recently that most terrorists and suicide bombers are engineers
    Storm Nordwind: I was always the misfit ara. I always thought non-linearly and irrationally!
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: Well Storm ... having heard a few stories from the retreat i think i understand what you mean about slapping engineers :)
    Qt Core: many terrorist attacks are quite complex to carry out
    arabella Ella: and it is so important today to think non linearly
    Qt Core: so the presence of high skilled people isn't so surprising
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,maybe its best done by an engineer
    Storm Nordwind pretends not to understand what ara is talking about regarding the retreat
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: not necessarily ... you need a group of people with various complementary skills for terrorism to be successful
    Storm Nordwind points out STim's workshop is starting
    arabella Ella: ooooops
    arabella Ella whispers ... technical and non technical skills
    Yakuzza Lethecus: cya at wok or bye everyone
    Mickorod Renard: bye yaku
    Storm Nordwind: Anyone else for WOK?
    Qt Core: (the other side of Mission Impossible teams...)
    arabella Ella: must be off to Stim's workshop bye everyone
    Mickorod Renard: yes please
    Wol Euler: bye everyone, I must move on too.
    Mickorod Renard: bye wol
    Qt Core: bye all, have fun
    Storm Nordwind: That looks like it then
    Mickorod Renard: bye qt
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Storm Nordwind: Bye all. Back to work here :)
    Qt Core: and i'll be back seeing the place (never did it shame on me)
    Storm Nordwind smiles
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