2009.09.14 19:00 - Connected, interconnected, unconnected

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.




    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Steve ^.^

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Three, brb, I need to survey a plot that was staked out for me

    Threedee Shepherd: k

    doug Sosa: hi three.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Threedee and SophiaSharon

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Threedee, Pila, Doug

    doug Sosa: :)

    Pila Mulligan: Doug, you ar ein luck -- I bet Threedee knows some answers to building questions

    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos

    doug Sosa: Here I am with an old friend, a beautiful girl, and a lion.

    Threedee Shepherd: hi Eos

    doug Sosa: Must be one of the 1001 nights!

    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs

    Threedee Shepherd: No. its one of the "6 million stories in the big city"

    doug Sosa: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi all

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for the tea, Pila :)

    Pila Mulligan: Threedee, if you have a simple building box and you want one side to be open, how is it done?

    Pila Mulligan: you are welcom SophiaSharon

    doug Sosa: yes, really good. (I've got some new green tea, deep taste, in the kitchen- resonates ).

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Well if you make it hollow, two opposite ends are open

    Pila Mulligan: aha

    Pila Mulligan: that would do it

    Pila Mulligan: how do you make it hollow?

    Threedee Shepherd: There is a setting in the toolkit

    Pila Mulligan: pardon for the mundane questions, please

    Pila Mulligan: ok, thnaks

    doug Sosa: these questions are in my behaf..

    Pila Mulligan: Doug wants to build a house from scratch :)

    Threedee Shepherd: You can't make it more than 95% hollow, so that sets a lower limit on resultant wall thickness

    Pila Mulligan: hi Arch

    doug Sosa: I've got this solid block of plywood about the size of a garage.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: once you start doing that, doug, its hard to stop :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Archmage, been a while ^.^

    doug Sosa: yep, i fear.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Archmage

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Archie!

    Pila Mulligan: I can imagine it would be SophiaSharon

    Threedee Shepherd: So, who wants to propose a topic?

    Pila Mulligan: earlier a topic was interconnectedness

    Pila Mulligan: it got some play

    Threedee Shepherd: of everything

    Pila Mulligan: yes

    doug Sosa: i ws thinking, how could any twothings not be connected?

    Threedee Shepherd: If everything is interconnected then there really is only ONE thing

    Pila Mulligan: as Dr Bronner says, all one!

    Eos Amaterasu: but if there's only one thing you lose the distinction to connect

    Archmage Atlantis: Hi Pila, Hi ThreeDee, Eos, Sophia...good to see all of you.

    doug Sosa: interconnected allows spae to be one of the things.

    doug Sosa: space

    Pila Mulligan: of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps

    Eos Amaterasu: Pila, by interconnectedness do you mean no solo arising?

    Threedee Shepherd: Was there a more practical and less philosophical approach to interconnectedness in the previous discussion

    doug Sosa: interconnected allows one of the things to be space.

    Pila Mulligan: kind of Eos, but that leads to Buddhist doctrine so it may not be precisely the same

    Pila Mulligan: it was gneralized Threedee

    doug Sosa: I have a surprise call, must go. bye. sorry.

    Pila Mulligan: people feeling connected, etc.

    Threedee Shepherd: Is there a difference between interconnectedness and relatedness?

    Pila Mulligan: bye Doug

    Threedee Shepherd: bye doug

    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Pila

    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Doug

    Pila Mulligan: probably they are related, but distinct

    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Doug

    Eos Amaterasu: Would there be a way to frame a 90sec using this theme?

    Pila Mulligan: Doug leaves, Pila stays

    Pila Mulligan: ... ?

    Threedee Shepherd: The playing cards in a deck are related, are they interconnected?

    Archmage Atlantis: Guess they weren't interconnected

    stevenaia Michinaga: spash

    Pila Mulligan: I think the starting point is kind of like Threedee and Doug said at the start -- seprataion is not easy to imagine, and if all is connected then we start woith a whole , not parts

    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi again, steve

    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Stevenaia

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Stevenaia

    Eos Amaterasu: HI Steve

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, I didn;t realize the plots were just over there :)

    Pila Mulligan: yes, we are all one here :)

    Pila Mulligan: interconnected

    Eos Amaterasu: yes, they are thickening rapidly

    Pila Mulligan: a village in the making


    Archmage Atlantis: I think biology is the best example, all cells are distinct yet interconnected a single organixm

    Eos Amaterasu: connected people?

    Threedee Shepherd: I would like to look for a more pragmatic than Buddhistg way to apporach interconnectedness, for starters

    Pila Mulligan: how about Jung?

    stevenaia Michinaga: cummunity is a powerful organisum

    Pila Mulligan: or Teilhard deCharidn -- noosphere

    Eos Amaterasu: 

    Threedee Shepherd: Good point Archmage

    Pila Mulligan: yep, or Saul Alinsky :)

    Pila Mulligan: ala Steve

    Pila Mulligan: actually, Marx in the non-communist form may be a food example of community as an organism also

    Pila Mulligan: dialectical materialism

    Pila Mulligan: good*

    Threedee Shepherd: A slight counterpoint, Arch, is that all the molecules of water in this pool are separate and yet make a greater shole and I don't think of them as interconnected the way I do biological cells'

    Pila Mulligan: not food :)

    Pila Mulligan: but they are connected in forming the whole, aren't they?

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that is perfect ThreeDee

    SophiaSharon Larnia: no, biological cells relay information to the others and are connected that way

    SophiaSharon Larnia: but aree differentiated

    Pila Mulligan: don't water molecules have any connection by energy (thinks of the Japanes experiements)

    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t atoms do that in the sence that some attract, other repell

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, water molecules interact by their electrical fields, which is a kind of information

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (agrees with Pila) ;)

    Archmage Atlantis: Well, the way things are connected does not undermine their individuality

    stevenaia Michinaga: like communication

    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s all electric

    Pila Mulligan: so given that there are varying component characteristics, organisms have parts :)

    Pila Mulligan: yet there is a whole organism

    Threedee Shepherd: Let's back up a sec. WHY is interconnection interesting as a topic?

    Pila Mulligan: because it may decrease our sense of separateness

    Archmage Atlantis: For me, it is only interesting as an evolutionary pathway

    Eos Amaterasu: is separateness the obverse of connectedness?

    Pila Mulligan: both

    Threedee Shepherd: OK, why not nearness than interconnected

    Pila Mulligan: yes

    Pila Mulligan: if there is a horse outside my window, am I alone?

    Pila Mulligan: s0me may say neigh

    Threedee Shepherd: If there is a window near you, are you alone

    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Archmage Atlantis: What a streach to get to that joke :)

    Pila Mulligan: yep, we are not really as separate as our physical pereceptions may suggest

    Pila Mulligan: well, you get the mane idea

    Eos Amaterasu: How about, in the 9 secs, are you more or less connected?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: guffaws

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, he was able to because we were in the neighborhood

    Archmage Atlantis: Define connected Eos

    Pila Mulligan: that was a point form earlier Eos

    stevenaia Michinaga: connected to what?

    Eos Amaterasu: (and Pila is my neighbour!)

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Pila Mulligan: Threedee punfest underway

    Archmage Atlantis: You are both hoofing it

    Threedee Shepherd: ;>

    Pila Mulligan: Mickorod Renard: I like the feeling on interconnectedness very much,,and when I am not feeling it I identify it with not feeling as happy as I could

    Pila Mulligan: from earlier

    Pila Mulligan: Mickorod Renard: I have felt that too Pila,,but sometimes,,when I feel a bit stressed I loose that feeling

    Pila Mulligan: so the loss of a feeling of connected ness concerned Mick

    Pila Mulligan: and the 90 secs may be a stress reduction exercise that helps

    Threedee Shepherd: I note the word "interconnectedness" is being used in a number of different ways in this discussion

    Eos Amaterasu: How does it feel to be connected?

    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is Threedee

    Archmage Atlantis: That is connectedness as awareness of and comfort taken from the presence of others

    Threedee Shepherd: So, does it matter whether the others are friends or strangers?

    Pila Mulligan: I think it does matter

    Archmage Atlantis: Sees like that could vary, actually

    Eos Amaterasu: people in battle are very connected

    Eos Amaterasu: and then they lose pieces

    Pila Mulligan: if you are drowning it doe snt matter if the lifeguard is a stranger

    Archmage Atlantis: sometimes being in a crowd of stangers makes one feel more connected than being with family and friends

    Pila Mulligan: in less stressful situations, freinds seems more conected than strangers

    SophiaSharon Larnia: my best friend is very ill, and ive been disconnected

    Eos Amaterasu: Sometimes when I felt alienated, I would watch crowds of people, such as coming out of Filene's basement in Boston

    Archmage Atlantis: A more Universal sense

    Eos Amaterasu: Each hadd their own little problems or big problems

    Pila Mulligan: that's a pity SophiaSharon, but some poeple like to go inside in tough times

    Archmage Atlantis: Stll that is very different from the connectedness of molecules of water

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i turned inside, the outside is what has been cut loose

    Eos Amaterasu: Yes


    Pila Mulligan: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (jeez just realized that) smiles

    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, perceptions make connections

    Eos Amaterasu: more of a kind of free soup of perceptions, my mind/feeling is there connections

    Eos Amaterasu: and now connections thru words

    Archmage Atlantis: I think the Bertan Rusell quote I am thinking of says something along the lines of the answer lie in the correct statement of the problem

    Threedee Shepherd: I observe that the multiplicity and ambiguity of our language--the many "meanings" of connectness being an example--provides automatic "connectedness" of concepts when we use language.

    Eos Amaterasu: language is schmoozy

    Threedee Shepherd: That is no one "talks" in a computer language

    Pila Mulligan: you are what you say :)

    Threedee Shepherd: and the other way around

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Now that reminds me of a Carol Burnett skit with the line "there are circles in our circles in our circles....."

    Threedee Shepherd: And yet, language seems to work adequately most of the time

    SophiaSharon Larnia: some things are ineffable

    Pila Mulligan: along with sounds, body gestures, facial expressions, etc, Threedee

    Archmage Atlantis: As determined by culture, dialect and main language

    Pila Mulligan: it is fun to learn that another language has a term for something that lacks a word in English

    Eos Amaterasu: it's funny that that word, ineffable, is a negation of something which is never itsellf referred to (effable)

    Threedee Shepherd: somehow it "works"

    Pila Mulligan: but yoou effed it well,Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: I put some effort into it

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: but the richness is the subtle differences we all see looking at the same definitions

    Threedee Shepherd: true

    stevenaia Michinaga: so it's those differences that we all learn from each other

    Threedee Shepherd: However, If I experience a subtlty, can I assume you dis too? No, I can't

    stevenaia Michinaga: and connect with

    Pila Mulligan: not the same subtlety, but maybe a realted one

    stevenaia Michinaga: if it's really subtle, how do you know you experienced it

    Eos Amaterasu: WE might think we're on the same subtle point, but discover we're not,which leads to humor

    Pila Mulligan: if we are watching a spports event we all notice different parts of the game, but we also all see the score as it evolves

    Pila Mulligan: so there are degree of subtlety and obviousness

    Archmage Atlantis: Some of the biggest misunderstandiing start with the simple misuse or mispronunciation of a tiny pronoun

    Threedee Shepherd: o-o, bottom of the 2nd

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Archmage Atlantis: How bought them Mets? . Bottom of the 2nd?

    Threedee Shepherd: yes, arch, which is part of why translation is so difficult

    Threedee Shepherd: Colorado/SF

    Archmage Atlantis: Not to mention across time zones

    Eos Amaterasu: misunderstandings are trouble if there's no humor (why PaB is important :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: the inning is not about winning

    Eos Amaterasu: but about the hotdogs and the time stretching out

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles


    Eos Amaterasu: and then you get annoyed when not-your-team scores a run

    Archmage Atlantis: A hotdog spouns tasty

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, take care everyone

    Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon

    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao Sophia

    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Sohpia

    Threedee Shepherd: bye

    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pari

    Paradise Tennant: hiya pila gtsy :) steve .. eos three dee ;))

    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Paradise

    Paradise Tennant: hiya arch :)

    Pila Mulligan needs to slips away for now -- bye Steve, Paradise, Eos,Thredee and Arch

    Threedee Shepherd: hi

    stevenaia Michinaga: es, me too

    Paradise Tennant: nite nite pila :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: is someone subbing for sylectra as guardian?

    Eos Amaterasu needs to disconnect too

    Archmage Atlantis: Nite Pila

    Paradise Tennant: :))

    Threedee Shepherd: I'm still guardian tonite

    Paradise Tennant: nite arch

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Nite Steve

    Eos Amaterasu: Bye all

    Paradise Tennant: nite eos :)

    Archmage Atlantis: It's my breath, I now it *smile*

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Near the end of the hour

    Paradise Tennant: sigh I know I am very late .. take a rl buddhist class mondays :)

    Paradise Tennant: how is everyone :)

    Threedee Shepherd: ok, thanks

    Archmage Atlantis: Lat night I fell asleep, woke up, tried to make it, and eveyone left within the first minute

    Paradise Tennant: :)

    Paradise Tennant: well we live by routine and lives are very busy ,... I feel lucky when i get to be inworld :)

    Threedee Shepherd: mmm

    Archmage Atlantis: Being confined to the house mostly these days, I'd think I

    Archmage Atlantis: could be here on time, my RL body often has other plans

    Paradise Tennant: not feel well ?

    Archmage Atlantis: I wouldn't say that exactly Paradise, it's just mechanical failure.....doesn't hurt

    Paradise Tennant: :))

    Archmage Atlantis: I only brought it up because it is just an example of how RL happens when we are busy making other plans

    Archmage Atlantis: *grin*

    Paradise Tennant: not if we are in the moment :)

    Paradise Tennant: then our awareness is happening :)

    Threedee Shepherd: True, AND physicality does havve a strong impact

    Paradise Tennant: yes


    Archmage Atlantis: I think I need to turn in for the evening, nite Paradise, always a great pleasure ThreeDee.

    Paradise Tennant: nite nite arch :))

    Paradise Tennant: hiya rowan :)

    Threedee Shepherd: indeed, good night. I, too will be leaving, Goodnight Paradise

    Paradise Tennant: good nite three dee :)

    Paradise Tennant: be well

    Threedee Shepherd: :)

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    Originally written on 19:48, 07 Oct 2009
    I am reminded of the immortal words of the sadly all-too-mortal Douglas Adams: "Let us grapple with the ineffable, and see whether we may not eff it after all."
    Posted 11:07, 9 Apr 2010
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