2009.09.14 19:00 - Connected, interconnected, unconnected

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.

 

 

 

Threedee Shepherd: Hi Steve ^.^

stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Three, brb, I need to survey a plot that was staked out for me

Threedee Shepherd: k

doug Sosa: hi three.

Pila Mulligan: hi Threedee and SophiaSharon

Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Threedee, Pila, Doug

doug Sosa: :)

Pila Mulligan: Doug, you ar ein luck -- I bet Threedee knows some answers to building questions

Pila Mulligan: hi Eos

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos

doug Sosa: Here I am with an old friend, a beautiful girl, and a lion.

Threedee Shepherd: hi Eos

doug Sosa: Must be one of the 1001 nights!

SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs

Threedee Shepherd: No. its one of the "6 million stories in the big city"

doug Sosa: :)

Eos Amaterasu: Hi all

Pila Mulligan: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for the tea, Pila :)

Pila Mulligan: Threedee, if you have a simple building box and you want one side to be open, how is it done?

Pila Mulligan: you are welcom SophiaSharon

doug Sosa: yes, really good. (I've got some new green tea, deep taste, in the kitchen- resonates ).

Pila Mulligan: :)

Threedee Shepherd: Well if you make it hollow, two opposite ends are open

Pila Mulligan: aha

Pila Mulligan: that would do it

Pila Mulligan: how do you make it hollow?

Threedee Shepherd: There is a setting in the toolkit

Pila Mulligan: pardon for the mundane questions, please

Pila Mulligan: ok, thnaks

doug Sosa: these questions are in my behaf..

Pila Mulligan: Doug wants to build a house from scratch :)

Threedee Shepherd: You can't make it more than 95% hollow, so that sets a lower limit on resultant wall thickness

Pila Mulligan: hi Arch

doug Sosa: I've got this solid block of plywood about the size of a garage.

SophiaSharon Larnia: once you start doing that, doug, its hard to stop :)

Threedee Shepherd: Hi Archmage, been a while ^.^

doug Sosa: yep, i fear.

SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Archmage

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Archie!

Pila Mulligan: I can imagine it would be SophiaSharon

Threedee Shepherd: So, who wants to propose a topic?

Pila Mulligan: earlier a topic was interconnectedness

Pila Mulligan: it got some play

Threedee Shepherd: of everything

Pila Mulligan: yes

doug Sosa: i ws thinking, how could any twothings not be connected?

Threedee Shepherd: If everything is interconnected then there really is only ONE thing

Pila Mulligan: as Dr Bronner says, all one!

Eos Amaterasu: but if there's only one thing you lose the distinction to connect

Archmage Atlantis: Hi Pila, Hi ThreeDee, Eos, Sophia...good to see all of you.

doug Sosa: interconnected allows spae to be one of the things.

doug Sosa: space

Pila Mulligan: of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps

Eos Amaterasu: Pila, by interconnectedness do you mean no solo arising?

Threedee Shepherd: Was there a more practical and less philosophical approach to interconnectedness in the previous discussion

doug Sosa: interconnected allows one of the things to be space.

Pila Mulligan: kind of Eos, but that leads to Buddhist doctrine so it may not be precisely the same

Pila Mulligan: it was gneralized Threedee

doug Sosa: I have a surprise call, must go. bye. sorry.

Pila Mulligan: people feeling connected, etc.

Threedee Shepherd: Is there a difference between interconnectedness and relatedness?

Pila Mulligan: bye Doug

Threedee Shepherd: bye doug

Archmage Atlantis: Bye Pila

SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Doug

Pila Mulligan: probably they are related, but distinct

Archmage Atlantis: Bye Doug

Eos Amaterasu: Would there be a way to frame a 90sec using this theme?

Pila Mulligan: Doug leaves, Pila stays

Pila Mulligan: ... ?

Threedee Shepherd: The playing cards in a deck are related, are they interconnected?

Archmage Atlantis: Guess they weren't interconnected

stevenaia Michinaga: spash

Pila Mulligan: I think the starting point is kind of like Threedee and Doug said at the start -- seprataion is not easy to imagine, and if all is connected then we start woith a whole , not parts

Pila Mulligan: hi Steve

Threedee Shepherd: Hi again, steve

Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Stevenaia

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Stevenaia

Eos Amaterasu: HI Steve

stevenaia Michinaga: hello, I didn;t realize the plots were just over there :)

Pila Mulligan: yes, we are all one here :)

Pila Mulligan: interconnected

Eos Amaterasu: yes, they are thickening rapidly

Pila Mulligan: a village in the making

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: I think biology is the best example, all cells are distinct yet interconnected a single organixm

Eos Amaterasu: connected people?

Threedee Shepherd: I would like to look for a more pragmatic than Buddhistg way to apporach interconnectedness, for starters

Pila Mulligan: how about Jung?

stevenaia Michinaga: cummunity is a powerful organisum

Pila Mulligan: or Teilhard deCharidn -- noosphere

Eos Amaterasu: 

Threedee Shepherd: Good point Archmage

Pila Mulligan: yep, or Saul Alinsky :)

Pila Mulligan: ala Steve

Pila Mulligan: actually, Marx in the non-communist form may be a food example of community as an organism also

Pila Mulligan: dialectical materialism

Pila Mulligan: good*

Threedee Shepherd: A slight counterpoint, Arch, is that all the molecules of water in this pool are separate and yet make a greater shole and I don't think of them as interconnected the way I do biological cells'

Pila Mulligan: not food :)

Pila Mulligan: but they are connected in forming the whole, aren't they?

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that is perfect ThreeDee

SophiaSharon Larnia: no, biological cells relay information to the others and are connected that way

SophiaSharon Larnia: but aree differentiated

Pila Mulligan: don't water molecules have any connection by energy (thinks of the Japanes experiements)

stevenaia Michinaga: don;t atoms do that in the sence that some attract, other repell

Threedee Shepherd: Well, water molecules interact by their electrical fields, which is a kind of information

SophiaSharon Larnia: (agrees with Pila) ;)

Archmage Atlantis: Well, the way things are connected does not undermine their individuality

stevenaia Michinaga: like communication

stevenaia Michinaga: it;s all electric

Pila Mulligan: so given that there are varying component characteristics, organisms have parts :)

Pila Mulligan: yet there is a whole organism

Threedee Shepherd: Let's back up a sec. WHY is interconnection interesting as a topic?

Pila Mulligan: because it may decrease our sense of separateness

Archmage Atlantis: For me, it is only interesting as an evolutionary pathway

Eos Amaterasu: is separateness the obverse of connectedness?

Pila Mulligan: both

Threedee Shepherd: OK, why not nearness than interconnected

Pila Mulligan: yes

Pila Mulligan: if there is a horse outside my window, am I alone?

Pila Mulligan: s0me may say neigh

Threedee Shepherd: If there is a window near you, are you alone

SophiaSharon Larnia: haha

Pila Mulligan: :)

Archmage Atlantis: What a streach to get to that joke :)

Pila Mulligan: yep, we are not really as separate as our physical pereceptions may suggest

Pila Mulligan: well, you get the mane idea

Eos Amaterasu: How about, in the 9 secs, are you more or less connected?

SophiaSharon Larnia: guffaws

Threedee Shepherd: Well, he was able to because we were in the neighborhood

Archmage Atlantis: Define connected Eos

Pila Mulligan: that was a point form earlier Eos

stevenaia Michinaga: connected to what?

Eos Amaterasu: (and Pila is my neighbour!)

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: Threedee punfest underway

Archmage Atlantis: You are both hoofing it

Threedee Shepherd: ;>

Pila Mulligan: Mickorod Renard: I like the feeling on interconnectedness very much,,and when I am not feeling it I identify it with not feeling as happy as I could

Pila Mulligan: from earlier

Pila Mulligan: Mickorod Renard: I have felt that too Pila,,but sometimes,,when I feel a bit stressed I loose that feeling

Pila Mulligan: so the loss of a feeling of connected ness concerned Mick

Pila Mulligan: and the 90 secs may be a stress reduction exercise that helps

Threedee Shepherd: I note the word "interconnectedness" is being used in a number of different ways in this discussion

Eos Amaterasu: How does it feel to be connected?

Pila Mulligan: yes, it is Threedee

Archmage Atlantis: That is connectedness as awareness of and comfort taken from the presence of others

Threedee Shepherd: So, does it matter whether the others are friends or strangers?

Pila Mulligan: I think it does matter

Archmage Atlantis: Sees like that could vary, actually

Eos Amaterasu: people in battle are very connected

Eos Amaterasu: and then they lose pieces

Pila Mulligan: if you are drowning it doe snt matter if the lifeguard is a stranger

Archmage Atlantis: sometimes being in a crowd of stangers makes one feel more connected than being with family and friends

Pila Mulligan: in less stressful situations, freinds seems more conected than strangers

SophiaSharon Larnia: my best friend is very ill, and ive been disconnected

Eos Amaterasu: Sometimes when I felt alienated, I would watch crowds of people, such as coming out of Filene's basement in Boston

Archmage Atlantis: A more Universal sense

Eos Amaterasu: Each hadd their own little problems or big problems

Pila Mulligan: that's a pity SophiaSharon, but some poeple like to go inside in tough times

Archmage Atlantis: Stll that is very different from the connectedness of molecules of water

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i turned inside, the outside is what has been cut loose

Eos Amaterasu: Yes

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: (jeez just realized that) smiles

Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, perceptions make connections

Eos Amaterasu: more of a kind of free soup of perceptions, my mind/feeling is there connections

Eos Amaterasu: and now connections thru words

Archmage Atlantis: I think the Bertan Rusell quote I am thinking of says something along the lines of the answer lie in the correct statement of the problem

Threedee Shepherd: I observe that the multiplicity and ambiguity of our language--the many "meanings" of connectness being an example--provides automatic "connectedness" of concepts when we use language.

Eos Amaterasu: language is schmoozy

Threedee Shepherd: That is no one "talks" in a computer language

Pila Mulligan: you are what you say :)

Threedee Shepherd: and the other way around

Pila Mulligan: :)

Archmage Atlantis: Now that reminds me of a Carol Burnett skit with the line "there are circles in our circles in our circles....."

Threedee Shepherd: And yet, language seems to work adequately most of the time

SophiaSharon Larnia: some things are ineffable

Pila Mulligan: along with sounds, body gestures, facial expressions, etc, Threedee

Archmage Atlantis: As determined by culture, dialect and main language

Pila Mulligan: it is fun to learn that another language has a term for something that lacks a word in English

Eos Amaterasu: it's funny that that word, ineffable, is a negation of something which is never itsellf referred to (effable)

Threedee Shepherd: somehow it "works"

Pila Mulligan: but yoou effed it well,Eos

Eos Amaterasu: I put some effort into it

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: but the richness is the subtle differences we all see looking at the same definitions

Threedee Shepherd: true

stevenaia Michinaga: so it's those differences that we all learn from each other

Threedee Shepherd: However, If I experience a subtlty, can I assume you dis too? No, I can't

stevenaia Michinaga: and connect with

Pila Mulligan: not the same subtlety, but maybe a realted one

stevenaia Michinaga: if it's really subtle, how do you know you experienced it

Eos Amaterasu: WE might think we're on the same subtle point, but discover we're not,which leads to humor

Pila Mulligan: if we are watching a spports event we all notice different parts of the game, but we also all see the score as it evolves

Pila Mulligan: so there are degree of subtlety and obviousness

Archmage Atlantis: Some of the biggest misunderstandiing start with the simple misuse or mispronunciation of a tiny pronoun

Threedee Shepherd: o-o, bottom of the 2nd

Pila Mulligan: :)

Archmage Atlantis: How bought them Mets? . Bottom of the 2nd?

Threedee Shepherd: yes, arch, which is part of why translation is so difficult

Threedee Shepherd: Colorado/SF

Archmage Atlantis: Not to mention across time zones

Eos Amaterasu: misunderstandings are trouble if there's no humor (why PaB is important :-)

Eos Amaterasu: the inning is not about winning

Eos Amaterasu: but about the hotdogs and the time stretching out

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: and then you get annoyed when not-your-team scores a run

Archmage Atlantis: A hotdog spouns tasty

SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, take care everyone

Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon

Eos Amaterasu: Ciao Sophia

Archmage Atlantis: Bye Sohpia

Threedee Shepherd: bye

Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pari

Paradise Tennant: hiya pila gtsy :) steve .. eos three dee ;))

Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Paradise

Paradise Tennant: hiya arch :)

Pila Mulligan needs to slips away for now -- bye Steve, Paradise, Eos,Thredee and Arch

Threedee Shepherd: hi

stevenaia Michinaga: es, me too

Paradise Tennant: nite nite pila :)

stevenaia Michinaga: is someone subbing for sylectra as guardian?

Eos Amaterasu needs to disconnect too

Archmage Atlantis: Nite Pila

Paradise Tennant: :))

Threedee Shepherd: I'm still guardian tonite

Paradise Tennant: nite arch

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Archmage Atlantis: Nite Steve

Eos Amaterasu: Bye all

Paradise Tennant: nite eos :)

Archmage Atlantis: It's my breath, I now it *smile*

Paradise Tennant: :)

Threedee Shepherd: Near the end of the hour

Paradise Tennant: sigh I know I am very late .. take a rl buddhist class mondays :)

Paradise Tennant: how is everyone :)

Threedee Shepherd: ok, thanks

Archmage Atlantis: Lat night I fell asleep, woke up, tried to make it, and eveyone left within the first minute

Paradise Tennant: :)

Paradise Tennant: well we live by routine and lives are very busy ,... I feel lucky when i get to be inworld :)

Threedee Shepherd: mmm

Archmage Atlantis: Being confined to the house mostly these days, I'd think I

Archmage Atlantis: could be here on time, my RL body often has other plans

Paradise Tennant: not feel well ?

Archmage Atlantis: I wouldn't say that exactly Paradise, it's just mechanical failure.....doesn't hurt

Paradise Tennant: :))

Archmage Atlantis: I only brought it up because it is just an example of how RL happens when we are busy making other plans

Archmage Atlantis: *grin*

Paradise Tennant: not if we are in the moment :)

Paradise Tennant: then our awareness is happening :)

Threedee Shepherd: True, AND physicality does havve a strong impact

Paradise Tennant: yes

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: I think I need to turn in for the evening, nite Paradise, always a great pleasure ThreeDee.

Paradise Tennant: nite nite arch :))

Paradise Tennant: hiya rowan :)

Threedee Shepherd: indeed, good night. I, too will be leaving, Goodnight Paradise

Paradise Tennant: good nite three dee :)

Paradise Tennant: be well

Threedee Shepherd: :)