2009.09.16 07:00 - We Can't Do Not Learning

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

 I sat alone for the first thirty minutes, and managed to organize the clothing folder of my inventory. That was a big accomplishment! In the second thirty minutes, I was joined by Yakuzza, who is still drinking his piping hot beverage. :)

We encouraged each other by comparing 'practice' notes, for instance on wu-wei...  

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :)
Eliza Madrigal: How are you doing today?
Yakuzza Lethecus: still a bit sick
Eliza Madrigal nods...good thing you're drinking hot tea :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s fine i was never out of work or something :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i just drink my regular coffee :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: can´t get rid of the regular habits :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I understand. We've had a cold in the house too... the slight tinge of a sore throat is nearly gone now though :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i know that´s why you haven´t talked the sunday session one week ago
Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes
Eliza Madrigal: Others might be relieved when I have a cold...haha
Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing can scare me so fast
Eliza Madrigal grins

Eliza Madrigal: How is your learning and contemplation going?

Yakuzza Lethecus: It usually works best when i don´t think about it, i don´t try to reinforce anything here
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Yakuzza Lethecus: It was very interesting over the last weeks from wu wei to other topics :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I really like that topic also... it causes us to dig deeper I think...
Yakuzza Lethecus: in fact when people talked about wu wei before i thought it was a fancy ancient chinese :D
Yakuzza Lethecus: and not what it is :)

Eliza Madrigal smiles... yes...on of those words that maybe we don't pay attention to because people throw it around too much
Eliza Madrigal: like yin yan and Tao also
Eliza Madrigal: or chakras
Eliza Madrigal: karma
Eliza Madrigal: etc
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, yin yan
Yakuzza Lethecus: haven´t heard about taoism so much here
Yakuzza Lethecus: so wu wei was just new
Eliza Madrigal: That might be one reason, that the common use of those words has become like advertising in our venacular and environment

Yakuzza describes that sense of intrinsic knowing that often comes before we can articulate...

Yakuzza Lethecus: i still follow the thought of what i might already know and just have to rename into terms of meditation
Yakuzza Lethecus: often i read and listen and learn how to describe different states of thoughts
Yakuzza Lethecus: i really don´t want to force anything, i know that i have to become more mindfull but ,,wanting" has always been an issue for me that lead me right out of what i wanted to achieve
Eliza Madrigal: That in itself is a lot to see, Ya
Yakuzza Lethecus: voice by the way ?
Eliza Madrigal: I'd rather not today if you don't mind :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, nevermind :)
Eliza Madrigal: Still a little scratchy...drinking tea and such :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: that wouldn´t count for me :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s ok
Eliza Madrigal smiles. Thank you
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
Yakuzza Lethecus: in fact i often have problems when i ,,want" or ,,expect" something that i leave myself out of the moment
Yakuzza Lethecus: for example when i first started talking to americans on an american teamspeak(voicechat) it was great and i had no issues talking to them
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: next time i ,,wanted" it to be with the same great experience and i just couldn´t say anything anymore

This part of our conversation really tickles me. Isn't it funny that we can see ourselves play out the same loops over and over again, but when we WANT to replay something, we find that illusive... 

Eliza Madrigal: Interesting observation... that when we MOST want to, we can't recreate those moments of 'flow' and ease...wow really something to see in that
Yakuzza Lethecus: that is for example just an old experience now talking to american´s is nothing ,,special" anymore
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Gee...hehhe
Eliza Madrigal: But I understand. haha
Yakuzza Lethecus: i often lose ,,being in the moment" and start on ,,i want to be somehow better" while being stuck somehow
Eliza Madrigal: Much of my early life was probably characterised by that feeling... wanting so much that I would get nervous and fumble it terribly
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i just can´t appreciate the situation i am in and start thinking about something i really can´t do anything constructive about
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
Eliza Madrigal: wanting *something, I should say
Eliza Madrigal: And then it can begin a cycle of limitations...
Eliza Madrigal: the self-fulfilling prophesy :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: right, thats something i often think about
Eliza Madrigal: Such a gift.. to see the pattern
Eliza Madrigal: when we see it playing out, we can begin to see through it
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, solve and break the pattern is a gift :P
Eliza Madrigal: YES...when you see it, it might be just a matter of time before letting it go...
Eliza Madrigal: and wu-wei seems to highlight that maybe we can't 'let it go' with effort
Eliza Madrigal: by trying to
Eliza Madrigal: and that's where we tangle ourselves... delay our success
Yakuzza Lethecus: exactly :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: the issue is not to run away but to engage old problems without falling back into negative schemas
Eliza Madrigal nods... or laugh at yourself and be light about it when you do... that's been a good tip/tool also!
Eliza Madrigal: Do you attend the time workshop?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have a real life course later in the evening
Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s still ,,before gilles" ?
Eliza Madrigal: I've been only a few times, but might check if it is going on today
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's right
Yakuzza Lethecus: in that case i am away
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t even know ig gilles course is today
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes and being online too many hours isn't healthy :) I bought reading glasses yesterday
Eliza Madrigal: seem to need them now :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it was on the kira calendar all summer even when in fact he was in summerbreak
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh :)

It seems wu-wei is about time and a sense of Being in Harmony. Harmony is another one of those words it is easy to be unconscious toward, but for me it is a lovely word that points to Time as a friend...  

Eliza Madrigal: I think what we're talking about with wu-wei... is also about Time...
Eliza Madrigal: And I think that's the aspect I've paid least attention to over the last few months
Eliza Madrigal: so maybe a good idea :)
Eliza Madrigal: making friends with time :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not to expect anything, i think whats discussed here is interesting and helpfull but often i lack the ability to integrate the new learned things into the experiences i already have
Eliza Madrigal nods
Yakuzza Lethecus: so the play as being experience stand alone in my memory while things like wu wei aren´t related to my ,,subjective" meditation experiences
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: One of the first things Pema pointed to, was an outline of Tilopa's Advice to Naropa... your "don't expect anything" makes me think of it...
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think we all have our ,,own meditation experiences" but i still don´t know how to transcribe those
Eliza Madrigal:

Let go of what has passed

Let go of what may come

Let go of what is happening now

Don't try to figure anything out

Don't try to make anything happen

Relax, right now, and rest

(Tilopa's Advice to Naropa)

Yakuzza Lethecus: I for example think that we can´t do ,,not learning".
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Yakuzza Lethecus: Even tryting to still the mind just means to ,,hear emotions and feelings"
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s just not that easy to transcribe and verbalize
Yakuzza Lethecus: and does not even need to
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i can get upset in my own mind all day
Yakuzza Lethecus: even in language :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean i talk to myself often
Eliza Madrigal: It may not need to be, but don't you think it helps clarify things, when you set them out?
Eliza Madrigal: if we do that we notice what loops we get stuck in
Eliza Madrigal: and we notice when something shifts...to go with it
Eliza Madrigal: or at least it is that way for me...and I think I'm much like you in some ways
Eliza Madrigal: trying to take everything in and synthesize it, for instance
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know what to say and run out of time :(
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care eliza
Eliza Madrigal: :) TIME!
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Yakuzza :) Maybe see you later
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye