2009.09.17 13:00 - Does our history define us?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    I was alone for the first 20 minutes or so.

    Storm Nordwind: Hi Qt
    Qt Core: Hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: I thought today I was going to be all alone! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: heya, you both :)
    Qt Core: you still may, i'm retrying the linux client... it always crashed
    Qt Core: hi yakuzza
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak!
    Qt Core: are you still movings things around Storm ?
    Storm Nordwind: I am!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you send a seacontainer ?
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... in RL I have a small shipment on its way. In SL I have been reforming our lands
    Qt Core: your past life reaching you in US ?
    Storm Nordwind: Not much of that thankfully! :)
    Qt Core: (thinking an how many things i would bring with me if moving)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi arabella
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Qt Core: hi ara
    Storm Nordwind: I gave nearly all of it away Qt
    Storm Nordwind: It was like a little death
    Qt Core: forniture ok, my my books...
    Storm Nordwind: I kept my Buddhist books - they're on the way
    Qt Core: first my = but
    Storm Nordwind: My furniture went
    Storm Nordwind: my guitars and amplifiers given away
    arabella Ella: must have been quite tough Storm!
    arabella Ella: sounds painful
    Storm Nordwind: Not as tough as you might think
    Storm Nordwind: Attachment is tougher
    arabella Ella: true
    Qt Core: it depends were you still playing them ?
    arabella Ella: are you a magpie?
    Storm Nordwind: And forking out $10 per cubic foot for shipping is tough too!!
    arabella Ella: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Me a magpie? no!
    arabella Ella: he he
    Storm Nordwind: Yes I was playing them every day Qt
    arabella Ella: i guess it must be a relief once it is all over
    arabella Ella: feeling of lightness of being
    arabella Ella: as in Kundera's book
    Storm Nordwind: But it was my birthday last month, and my new wife insisted on buying me a new guitar
    arabella Ella: cool
    Qt Core: i'm wondering what you are going to get as a chrostmas present ;-)
    Qt Core: :-D
    Storm Nordwind: :)
    arabella Ella: I wonder ... why do we as humans tend to get so attached to our material possessions?
    Storm Nordwind: because perhaps we've never tried to let them all go. It's remarkably easy once you have no other choice
    Qt Core: maybe it is (leaving greed apart) as they help define us, both to others and to ourselves
    Storm Nordwind: Anyway... I wouldn't have got the best guitar I've ever played if I hadn't made room for it by giving everything else away!
    arabella Ella: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Ah Qt... I have to disagree. Nothing I own defines me, to myself or others. I suspect I'm more defined by what I do than what I have!
    arabella Ella: perhaps some material possessions also provide a (perhaps false?) sense of security to many?
    Qt Core: i should have added i don't always agree
    Qt Core: with myself
    Storm Nordwind: haha Qt! :) And I suspect you're right ara.
    arabella Ella: i personally find that when loss of material possessions occurs, through circumstances beyond our control, then it is fine, but many of us tend to re-accumulate stuff once again
    Storm Nordwind: Sure!
    Storm Nordwind: Interesting point though... what is it that defines us?
    arabella Ella: mmmmmmmmmm
    Qt Core: maybe i'm thinking about single items that come to have sentimental/memory values, not just things
    Storm Nordwind: Is there anything at all that does? I mean *really* does?
    arabella Ella: interesting question ...
    arabella Ella reflects ...
    Storm Nordwind: To define us implies that separation is real
    arabella Ella: perhaps what defines us varies and depends a great deal on the attitudes we have and the circumstances in which we live our lives
    arabella Ella: with some people being more materialistic than others who live more simple lives
    Storm Nordwind: It's a profound question isn't it
    arabella Ella: it certainly is
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps considering what people remembered us by, when we're gone. even passed away, would tell us
    arabella Ella: could it be that our histories define us?
    Storm Nordwind: What do you think?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i would agree on that
    Storm Nordwind: Supposing you don't carry a sense of your own history around with you?
    arabella Ella: i personally think it is certain achievements that define me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol
    arabella Ella: mmmmm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Wol
    arabella Ella: now that is an even more difficult question Storm :)
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Qt Core: hi Wol
    arabella Ella: if we dont carry our histories with us what do we then have ... what remains?
    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: can someone ever be late here ?
    Qt Core: our future ?
    Storm Nordwind: Haha - today I'm trying to unfrazzle my brain after whirlwind land dealing, and the way I'm doing it seems to be with profound questions!
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: what would you have Storm if you did not carry your history around with you?
    Storm Nordwind: You'd have me as I am right now!
    Storm Nordwind: We did an exploration into just this at the PaB retreat
    arabella Ella: wow cool
    Storm Nordwind: That was part of it
    arabella Ella: and could you say more please?
    Storm Nordwind: I'll not detail it all...
    arabella Ella: pls?
    Storm Nordwind: but the first stage was to consider yourself (in a brief timed meditation), as you stand with all your history and all your sense of self from that history.
    Storm Nordwind: The second stage was to drop that history and just see yourself with your personality as it is now.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fael
    arabella Ella: Hiya Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Storm Nordwind: The third stage tried to go beyond personality etc etc
    Qt Core: hi Fael
    Wol Euler: hello fael
    Storm Nordwind: I found that the 1st stage was very artifical for me because I'm always in the now, never carrying the history
    Storm Nordwind: It was an effort to force myself to go through my history!
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: even though your history made you what you are today?
    Storm Nordwind: I'm conscious of what I am... like a rock with bits knocked of - I'm the shape I am partly because of the past
    Storm Nordwind: But I am conscious of the current shape, and I don't associate all the dents and corners with any past that made them
    Wol Euler nods
    Fael Illyar smiles 'I like that way of thinking.'
    Storm Nordwind: I find it's immensely freeing to think this way :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I can see how that is :)
    arabella Ella: yes now i see what you mean
    arabella Ella: so if i may ask ... beyond personality ... image ... character ... what comes then?
    arabella Ella: is it like a blank slate ... or is that possible?
    Fael Illyar: perhaps more like personality that depends mostly on who you're talking to?
    Qt Core: i can "rationally" understand that but it seem very far from me
    Storm Nordwind: hmmm... that's a good question. We discussed it and tried a few things. But I suspect that a SL is not the place to go into it. You'll have to trust me on that! :)
    arabella Ella: i think Qt it is living a life with no regrets, a rejection of 'what could have been' and an appreciation of the 'now' and the 'future'
    Storm Nordwind: Rien ne rien, non je ne regrette rien! :)
    Qt Core: sadly i'm mostly in past and future and rarely in the now
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Wol Euler: I have a hell of a lot of regrets, actually, and they are almost all things I didn't do.
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... that is often the acid test Wol
    arabella Ella: i dont see any point in dwelling on regret in life
    Storm Nordwind: A common regret (I'm told) is "I wish I'd taken more risks"
    Wol Euler nods
    Fael Illyar: one thing about regretting something you did or didn't... I find it kind of like wishing you weren't what you are.
    arabella Ella: but ... if one regrets not having taken risks ... it is never too late to get started and to move on
    Wol Euler smiles. Yes but ...
    Storm Nordwind: if you want to be other than you are, is that a bad thing Fael?
    Qt Core: i don't dwell in it but sometimes when you see around something that could be the outcome of a different choice then a little regret wave hit me, just a little moment
    Fael Illyar: Storm, that's up to you :)
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    arabella Ella: apologies for pushing this further Storm ... but when dropping first history then personality ... could it be similar to encountering an avi on day one in SL?
    Storm Nordwind: Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that ara...
    Storm Nordwind: It seems SO long ago for me! :)
    arabella Ella: cos the thing is ... when we get started here we possess neither history not personality to a great extent
    Storm Nordwind: But are we a blank slate?
    arabella Ella: and many of our histories remain ... hidden?
    arabella Ella: i guess we start to project our personality from the start
    arabella Ella: or the personality we wish to project
    Fael Illyar: we have histories but... a lot of it stays hidden at first.
    Storm Nordwind: At least one personality, in some cases!
    arabella Ella: or multiple personalities for some
    Fael Illyar: Hello What :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya What
    What Hax: hi ^^
    Wol Euler: hello what
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Qt Core: hi What
    What Hax: greetings all*
    arabella Ella: to me dropping personality too sounds a bit like re-birth ... altho even re-birth involves the projection of personality once again
    Fael Illyar: isn't personality usually understood to be unchanging?
    Fael Illyar: is it personality anymore when it starts changing fast or faster?
    Storm Nordwind: Is there anything at all that is unchanging? And if so over what period?
    arabella Ella: i think there are psychologists that distinguish between personality and character ... but i dont see that distinction much myself ... and i think they say that personality is unchanging ... don't think i agree with that
    Storm Nordwind needs to remind people of the Ways of Knowing workshop that is about to start in the Kira Cafe
    Fael Illyar: me neither
    arabella Ella: oh yes thanks for the reminder Storm
    arabella Ella: i think i will make my way to Kira
    arabella Ella: bye everyone
    Fael Illyar waves goodbye to ara.
    Storm Nordwind knows the balloon will take you there if you want a gentle ride
    Wol Euler: bye ara
    Qt Core: bye ara
    What Hax: bye
    Storm Nordwind: Bye ara!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Storm Nordwind: Well I must apologise... I am not staying on today, and I need to sort some things out before part of the world goes to bed!
    Wol Euler: oh, right, I must go too. Goodnight all, see you anon.
    Qt Core: ok, bye then
    Fael Illyar: Good night Wol :)
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    What Hax: Nice to meet you
    Wol Euler: goodnight!
    What Hax: nice to meet you ^^
    Fael Illyar: Well, I'll head out as well
    Fael Illyar: See you all later :)
    Qt Core: hi Fef
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