2009.09.22 13:00 - Berts Trip and Downs Syndrome

The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

 

 

Bertram Jacobus: hey mick ! ... :-)

Mickorod Renard: Hiya Bert!

Bertram Jacobus: how are you ? - something new ?

Mickorod Renard: how are you?

Mickorod Renard: he he ..snap

Bertram Jacobus: lol. ty - it's okay ...

Mickorod Renard: nothing new, just work and then home

Bertram Jacobus: okay ...

Mickorod Renard: weather seems to be on the change

Bertram Jacobus: oh yes ?

Mickorod Renard: yes,,its been unusualy dry,,but a bit of rain tonite

Bertram Jacobus: i see ...

Mickorod Renard: whats it like with you?

Bertram Jacobus: the weather ?

Mickorod Renard: yes

Bertram Jacobus: oh. very ... normal

Bertram Jacobus: nothing special

Mickorod Renard: these last few weeks have been better than the summer

Mickorod Renard: so, have you been doing anything interesting?

Bertram Jacobus: sometimes i have an imression, i don't notice weather very much ... hm

Bertram Jacobus: yes 1 i was some days in austria, in the mountains. was VERY nice

Mickorod Renard: ohh yes, i remember you saying you were going there

Bertram Jacobus: yes. it was directly at the "zugspitze", the highest mountain in germany ...

Mickorod Renard: wow

Bertram Jacobus: and the two days there were top weather

Mickorod Renard: fantastic

Bertram Jacobus: hi florent :-)

Mickorod Renard: I think he was passing through,,he he

Bertram Jacobus: okay ... ;-)

Mickorod Renard: so, the trip,,was it NICE for any particular reason?

Bertram Jacobus: i went with such a mountain thing - how is it called - a lift to 2060 m high ...

Bertram Jacobus: so beautyful

Mickorod Renard: wow,,on a cable car?

Bertram Jacobus: and a great sight over a big panorama ! - yes cable thing - like a bird in the sky ... :-)

Mickorod Renard: yes..fantastic

Bertram Jacobus: and i met very nice people there, too

Mickorod Renard: yes,,were they people you knew before?

Bertram Jacobus: i brought one friend back to cologne. his relation with a woman is finished. i did not know the woman before and her daughter. was all very friendly

doug Sosa: appologies for lateness.

Bertram Jacobus: hello doug ! ;-)

Mickorod Renard: ok,,was he badly upset by it all,,or coped well?

Mickorod Renard: hiya Doug

doug Sosa: keep goin on whre you were.

Bertram Jacobus: it was ... okay i think. sure : not the biggest joy, but okay ...

Mickorod Renard: we were discussing bERTS TRIP TO THE MOUNTAINS IN AUSTRIA

Mickorod Renard: OOPS sorry 4 shhouting

doug Sosa: envy. i've doen them in slovenia.

Mickorod Renard: what are they like there Doug?

doug Sosa: just like austria :)

Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara

arabella Ella: Hiya!

Mickorod Renard: he he

doug Sosa: :)

Bertram Jacobus: hi ara :-)

Mickorod Renard: Do you get to travel to europe often Doug?

doug Sosa: i used to go about twice a year. went last year to umbria. no current plan.

Mickorod Renard: nice

Mickorod Renard: my travels sort of became more domesticated when I had my son

doug Sosa: but i live in te coastal range north of san francisco, quite wild, on the russian river.

Mickorod Renard: I cant say I know that area too well Doug

doug Sosa: looks like austria :)

--BELL--

arabella Ella: i've been to the redwoods area north of SF myself

Mickorod Renard: wow,,are you at risk from the fires that seem to breaK OUT EACH YEAR?

arabella Ella whispers ... really beautiful

arabella Ella: (the redwood area i mean ... not the fires)

Mickorod Renard: I keep finding redwoods here in the uk..US imports

arabella Ella: :)

doug Sosa: well, we were tlaking about the fires this morning. we are at the point where the valley opens to the flood plain so the trees are closest about 100-150 yards, and not many at that distance. beyond, 33 meters, dense. so it think we are ok.

doug Sosa: 33=300

Mickorod Renard: yes,,thank goodness..I suppose it could be a worry

doug Sosa: our discussion this morning was - in case of fire, is the river safe, or do we boil?

Mickorod Renard: he he

doug Sosa: that's when to do the 9 sec :)

Mickorod Renard: grin

Mickorod Renard: I came accros some wellingtonia tree's the other day

Mickorod Renard: looked like redwoods

Mickorod Renard: I think they must have been from new zealand

Bertram Jacobus: i met in the two days in austria too agirl, the daughter of the family where i was, with the down's syndrome and that was a very nice experience

Bertram Jacobus: i like these people already since a long time very much because they always look so happy

Mickorod Renard: wow,,I think it must have been a rewarding experience Bert

doug Sosa: brb

Bertram Jacobus: and it was my first time with such a person close and known

arabella Ella: oh yes you have just been to Austria Bert haven't you?

arabella Ella: was it a good trip?

arabella Ella: were you in Vienna or elsewhere?

Bertram Jacobus: yes ara - we talked already a bit about that - was great :-)

arabella Ella: fantastic!

Mickorod Renard: the mountains Ara

arabella Ella: ah lovely

arabella Ella: in Corinthia?

doug Sosa: b

Bertram Jacobus: no. direct at the "zugspitze" - germans highest mountain - about - a bit less as 3000 m i guess

Bertram Jacobus: and the other half is autriche ;-)

arabella Ella: yes i know it although have not been to german mountains

arabella Ella: sounds beautiful

arabella Ella: although too cold for me i guess

Bertram Jacobus: was phantastic, also because i had very nice weather. was very lucky

Mickorod Renard: did you experience anything special that you can share with the downs syndrome girl?

Bertram Jacobus: no no not cold at all

Bertram Jacobus: i went with a t shirt walking

Mickorod Renard: nice

arabella Ella: how lovely

Bertram Jacobus: absolutely yes mick. she was so trustingly and confident and i could accept that very good

Bertram Jacobus: so we had two very close days

Bertram Jacobus: may be when you have that all day may be more difficult

Bertram Jacobus: but so it was great

arabella Ella: sounds lovely it is so important for us to realise that we can get on with everyone regardless

arabella Ella: unfortunately too many ppl have prejudices

arabella Ella: unfounded prejudices

doug Sosa: is that one? seriously.

arabella Ella: for some people yes

Bertram Jacobus: but when you look in the faces of these people you can see how happy they are

Bertram Jacobus: again and again

arabella Ella nods

Bertram Jacobus: their basic mood seems to be very happy

Mickorod Renard: thats good

doug Sosa: i would suggest that perhaps all prejudices are grounded, jut not well enough. but the intent is to deal with far and expecially economic anxiety.

Bertram Jacobus: that's fantastic - a really nice specialty

arabella Ella: well doug if you include religious superstition as a grounding for prejudice ... then that's something else

Mickorod Renard: I guess you mean the amount of extra care needed by carers/parents Doug?

doug Sosa: i was responding to the "prejudices" idea.

Mickorod Renard: I am not quite sure what the foundation of the predjudice must be,,,now I think about it

--BELL--

doug Sosa: take for example, whites fear of black in the inner city, and, what comes only from exxperience, knowing the even deeper fear blacks have of whites in the inner city. bith are based on real expeience unfortuanatly overgeneralized but not "stupid"

arabella Ella: i guess it is a religious superstition related to either 'punishment' or 'perceived punishment' ... a type of karma

doug Sosa: sorry :(

doug Sosa: bith-both

Mickorod Renard: ;)

arabella Ella: isn't it really some sort of 'fear' of 'difference' ... after all in some people's living memory people who were 'different' were often locked up and lived in 'oblivion' ... something we tend to condemn today

Mickorod Renard: I have to admit to making avoiding action whenconfronted with someone with downs

doug Sosa: i need to slowly calmly go to a five minute lunch... bye.

Mickorod Renard: bye Doug

arabella Ella: bye doug enjoy your lunch :)

Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time doug

Bertram Jacobus: i have also problems with some deseases, but the down's sydrome i nearly like (!) ...

Mickorod Renard: yes, I dont have an issue with people with these sorts of problems,,its just , like many I guess, life is so rushed I dont want complications

arabella Ella: yes Bert I too have no problem with downs

arabella Ella: i guess the attitude in the Uk may be a bit different ... some people in the Uk consider abortion, unfortunately, when they learn that their feutus has downs

Bertram Jacobus: it´s the point that i see so much joy in life of these people. that attracts me -

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats fantastic Bert

Bertram Jacobus: as i said before : in a every day mode that may be more difficult, but as a visitor ... it was a great experience : she came so often and took my hand, sat beside me, all so friendly and - happy - can't say it in a other way ...

Mickorod Renard: thats true Ara,,the uk is in some respects a huge mechanical monster,,and it presses on relentlessly..sometimes in an uncaring way

Bertram Jacobus: thats not only in the uk with the abortions ...

Mickorod Renard: we the inhabitants try hard to slow it down but its not always posible

Mickorod Renard: I am very anti abortion,,but I suppose if confronted with a dilemna I may become ruthless

arabella Ella: yes - here it is illegal

Bertram Jacobus: i don't experience you as "ruthless" at all mick (!)

Bertram Jacobus: never

arabella Ella: neither do i

Mickorod Renard: thankyou, but I can remember looking into adopting once

Bertram Jacobus: i think you could express that in a more smoother way too ... ;-)

Mickorod Renard: and when it was put to me that I could adopt a child with dificulties I didnt follow it up

Bertram Jacobus: i repeat : with some difficulties i can´t cope too for sake -

Mickorod Renard: ;)

arabella Ella: as Bert said Mick ... it is not an easy task if it is 24/7

Mickorod Renard: exactly

Bertram Jacobus: but i try to learn ... so many things "yet" ...

arabella Ella: we all do Bert and it is therefore important to maintain our curiousity

Mickorod Renard: but its nice to be open about these things,,it is better than storing away tabboo subjects

Bertram Jacobus: and it's a question of power too i think. what one can do and what not yet -

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: I agree

Bertram Jacobus: yes mick :-) i agree very much :-)

arabella Ella: although one must try to remain open to opportunities and recognise them when they occur ... we dont always do so

Mickorod Renard: I always thought I may reconsider adopting or fostering when my own son is independant

Mickorod Renard: but I recon he will always be around..he he

arabella Ella: :)

Bertram Jacobus: ;-)

arabella Ella: do you know if Gilles' workshop is today at Kira or tomorrow?

Bertram Jacobus: no idea sry

arabella Ella: ok

arabella Ella: i guess it is tomorrow wednesday ... first meeting after summer break

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: and i think ... i'll leave today a bit earlier ... - now ! ;-)

Mickorod Renard: Is it not dreams tonight?

Bertram Jacobus: ty for the talk and have a nice time please

Mickorod Renard: bye Bert,,nice chatting

arabella Ella: guten nacht Bert

arabella Ella: schlaf gut

arabella Ella: :)

Bertram Jacobus: dank euch ! :-)

Mickorod Renard: he he

Bertram Jacobus: :o))