2009.09.26 19:00 - Resistance

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    This night's session would see quite a large turn-out: we had up to twelve avatars present at some point.

    Pema Pera: hi Maxine!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema!
    Maxine Walden: I don't often make these Sat evening meetings, but am glad I can tonight
    Pema Pera: Good to see you, Maxine! I haven't been in as much as I would have liked to either, recently
    Pema Pera: Hi Arch, and hi Fael and Doug!
    Maxine Walden: so many things tugging at the sleeve...
    Maxine Walden: hi, doug, Feal, Arch
    doug Sosa: hi all.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema, Maxine, Doug :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Awh, Pema..... a special meeting then
    Maxine Walden: a meeting with Pema is always special...
    Fael Illyar: Yes :)
    Pema Pera: every moment is special :-)
    Fael Illyar: yes, that too :)
    Maxine Walden: indeed, every moment...
    Archmage Atlantis: True Pema
    Fael Illyar: but you won't succeed in diverting them from thinking this meeting special with that ;)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yet.....
    Maxine Walden: (smiling and nodding toward Fael)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Pema Pera: Good evening, Adams!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
    Pema Pera: and Eliza!
    Pema Pera: wow, what a crowd!
    Maxine Walden: yes, and hi, Eliza
    Archmage Atlantis: Pema. hit tatoo I wear
    Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
    Maxine Walden: nice to see everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Maxine, Fael, doug, Arch, Adams...
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Eos :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
    Fael Illyar: Oh new look, Eliza?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eos :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well, new hair :)
    Archmage Atlantis: The elders are gathered
    Pema Pera: Hi Eos!
    Fael Illyar: looks great :)
    Maxine Walden: uh oh, elders?
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Fael :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Fael, Adams, Eliza, Pema, Archmage, Maxine, Doug
    Maxine Walden: hi, Eos
    doug Sosa: we spend half our time in the chorus of hi. in tune?
    Fael Illyar: doug, sure, why not? :P
    Maxine Walden: we do, doug, don't we
    Eliza Madrigal: there is also 'bye', and he he he
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: I always say hello :)
    Eos Amaterasu: How we spend time
    Adams Rubble giggles
    Archmage Atlantis: Music, une why not
    Archmage Atlantis: yumr
    Archmage Atlantis: ugh
    doug Sosa: i just love to be cranky every now and then. "hello" is advanced and requires counterpoint :)
    Archmage Atlantis: tune
    From hellos to music to Madrigal:
    Maxine Walden: another type of music would be the Madrigal, led by Eliza
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Quel music?
    Eliza Madrigal smiles... wow someone who knows what a Madrigal is
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    doug Sosa: she is well composed.
    Maxine Walden: yes, used to sing them, Eliza (long distant past)
    Maxine Walden: hoho, doug
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh nice Maxine :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Maxine Walden: do you sing Madrigals, Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, not in public :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrigal_(music)
    Maxine Walden: but maybe in private; such wonderful harmonies; medieval folk were very sophisticated in being able to sing them by sight
    Fael Illyar: Hi Steve :)
    Pema Pera: Hi there Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Maxine Walden: hi, steve
    Adams Rubble: Hello Steve :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
    Eliza Madrigal: It is funny. I didnt think of it as a Hispanic name, but it causes many people to IM me in Spanish
    Eliza Madrigal: so I get to practice a little :)
    Maxine Walden: ah, interesting!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh....brb
    Adams Rubble only gets IMs from geologists
    Maxine Walden: not as romantic, Adams!!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: geologists re the Rubble?
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Adams Rubble: wanting to pick through the rocks
    doug Sosa: geologists dig beautiful women!
    Fael Illyar: Hi SophiaSharon :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: was that a "dig" pun doug
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello SophiaSharon :) (back)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone :))
    doug Sosa: no, a doug pun, dig?
    Pema Pera: Hi SophiaSharon!
    Maxine Walden: hi, SophiaSharon
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal says sorry to the bell
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Maxine Walden: plays on words re geologists, digging, etc...
    Archmage Atlantis: Nimbusdemands time, brb
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
    In response to my question about PaB, Maxine mentioned resistance, which would become the main theme for this session.
    Pema Pera: I have a general question for all of you: are you happy with the way PaB can help you explore reality? Or would you like more practical or specific suggestions?
    Maxine Walden: I suppose part of 'reality' is the resistance to exploring it, so nudges in that direction are always welcome
    Pema Pera: Hi Paradise and Vajra!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow big group :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Paradise and Vajra :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise, Vajra :)
    Pema Pera: what kind of nudge do you think might be useful, Maxine?
    Vajra Raymaker: Greetings all : -)
    Fael Illyar: Hello Vajra :)
    Paradise Tennant: hello all :))
    Fael Illyar: Hello Paradise :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Pema, in yur own way, you always seem to bring in a fresh perspective on things which is alway refreshing and keeps the explorations from geting stale,
    Vajra Raymaker: I am intensely happy http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Dalai+Lama+arrives+Vancouver/2038484/story.html
    Maxine Walden: not sure, Pema, but just thinking about the resistance to explore reality, which I think is the hesitation to change...remaining with the familiar is always more comfortable
    Archmage Atlantis: My opion Penma
    Archmage Atlantis: sorrry Pema
    Pema Pera: Thnx Steve :)
    Archmage Atlantis: The neropahthty
    Pema Pera: resistance is such an interesting phenomenon, and we can learn so much from it
    Pema Pera: just by watching it
    Archmage Atlantis: Is that there is much to learn
    Maxine Walden: so help to embrace that hesitation toward change...perhaps acceptance of the limitations we all feel ...
    Paradise Tennant: yes :)
    Pema Pera: normally if we feel resistance we tend to push harder, and then the resistance increases too, and we get into some kind of power game with ourselves . . . .
    Archmage Atlantis: Even from my 16 yo cat
    Pema Pera: but what if we just smile at resistance, watching it, while refusing to play the game?
    While Maxine had started with noticing resistance, Eos pointed out that it may be present well before you have become aware of it.
    Eos Amaterasu: First you have to notice it... :-)
    Pema Pera: perhaps resistance then no longer can have a grip on us
    Eos Amaterasu: it can kind of sneak up
    Archmage Atlantis: This is not game Pema
    Pema Pera: yes, Eos, but after it has snuck up you can watch
    doug Sosa: in the psychoanalytic world resistance is a good guide to what, by being dicovered and understood, frees energy.
    Archmage Atlantis: We arr here a short while
    Pema Pera: how do you use that guide, Doug?
    doug Sosa: "tell me your story, start wher ever you'd like, " and in a bit comes
    doug Sosa: hesitation. why. let's take a good look at it from many perspectives, ah, so that's why you were hesitatnt, no w back to the story....
    Fael Illyar: there is a reason for the resistance, ignore it and push and it'll get stronger. Find the reason and the resistance might vanish.
    Archmage Atlantis: Understands Doug
    Archmage Atlantis: The young multitask
    doug Sosa: and reconize the legitimacy, and yet unnecessariness, of the resistance.
    Pema Pera: so that's a way to get more deeply into wu-wei, you might say, Doug?
    stevenaia Michinaga: and the energy consumed while resisting
    Paradise Tennant: pretty sure the stories are just stories .. not reality .. resistance .. is often a friction against what is .. ultimately we are often at odds with reality .. we really enjoy the stories :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Another chance for a round of exploration.
    Pema Pera: shall we use the 90 sec to look at whatever resistance we can find easily and naturally?
    Maxine Walden: fiction which is friction....love the alliteration
    Maxine Walden: yes, coming soon...
    Archmage Atlantis: The storytelling passes hat is undergood
    Pema Pera: Did anyone find some resistance somewhere? :)
    Adams Rubble qietly slips away. bye all ::)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Adams :)
    Maxine Walden: found that sense of stickiness...hesitant to 'give up' the known and familiar
    doug Sosa: example possible?
    Eos Amaterasu: Desire for occupation, when deep down I know occupation is somewhat fear of opennes, kiliing "time"
    Eos Amaterasu: *killing
    Maxine Walden: killing the potential new open opportunity, Eos?
    Vajra Raymaker: Can a sudden notion that you are tired, when you learn about an event going on with your friends, be resistance?
    Eos Amaterasu: it's an interesting phrase, metaphor: being afraid of the opennes, which could be a stretch of time
    Archmage Atlantis: There is not wrong in that
    Eos Amaterasu: it happens, so I watch it
    Archmage Atlantis: It only is
    Pema Pera: interesting question, Vajra
    doug Sosa: i resisted going into the 90 secc because i felt the atmosphere here was too gamy, and partly my doing
    Paradise Tennant: interesting how just observing .. diminishes in a way .. resistance.. somehow by being aware of it . .we shrink it a bit by paying attention
    Pema Pera: very much so
    Eos Amaterasu: which also lets its energy be
    Archmage Atlantis: I do not controlthis world
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought more about the question re pab... maybe I resisted thinking about resistance :)
    Maxine Walden: my experience as well, Paradise
    Vajra Raymaker: Are we to suppose that resistance is something we feel, as a sensation? Lately I've been wondering whether all emotions are really felt sensations (then with added stuff onto of them)
    Vajra Raymaker: Or is resistance something we figure out we are doing, rather than being a direct sensation?
    Pema Pera: there may be many forms
    Eos Amaterasu: resistance has subtle fear qualities
    Archmage Atlantis: Vajra
    Eos Amaterasu: which it tries to hide
    Vajra Raymaker: k, Eos, k Pema.
    Pema Pera: interesting, Eos, it is indeed hard to think about any resistance that has no fear component at all
    Paradise Tennant: and a certain inertia ..sometimes we have to engage .. expend energy .. and oft times .. it is just not there
    Pema Pera: ah, the energy question is fascinating, Paradise: just watching often can recharge us
    Archmage Atlantis: There is only what we are a ware of
    Pema Pera: we think we have a finite store of energy, but that may be misleading
    Vajra Raymaker: k Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: What we are not aware of, does not exist to us
    Doug summed it up nicely.
    doug Sosa: As soon as i relax, the energy of the universe is available to me. When I am not relaxed, i only have my own, and even then only part of it.
    Paradise Tennant: yes :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, doug
    Fael Illyar: I'm starting to feel like I'll fall asleep on the computer if I don't go now. Good night everyone :)
    Pema Pera: night Fael!
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Fael :)
    Maxine Walden: nite, Fael
    SophiaSharon Larnia: night :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nicely put doug
    doug Sosa: :)
    Paradise Tennant: acceptance .. enjoyment .. enthousiasm are the keys that unlock a wealth of energy ..
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite fael :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Fael
    Archmage Atlantis: Good night ofe
    Fael Illyar: Good night Love :)
    doug Sosa: we use a lot of words that have complex histories. sensation, thought, feel, emotion.
    doug Sosa: Take the word enthusiasm. Come from the greek
    doug Sosa: en theoes. the god within.
    doug Sosa: this word was created to describe
    doug Sosa: the energy of the barbarians that the citified athenians had lost,
    doug Sosa: the barbarians had gods in them.
    Vajra Raymaker: wow, Doug
    Maxine Walden: maybe the athenians attributed their 'lost' energies to the barbarians and saw in them 'gods'
    Maxine Walden: sorry, doug, you were making a point re enthusiasm and I went on a tangent...
    Pema Pera: how about looking at resistance again, and to see whether resistance disappears if we don't resist resistance?
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Paradise Tennant: for you to be free of resistance . ..one of those three has to be on the scene .. resistance is a big consumer of energy ..
    doug Sosa: ineed to leave at the bell :) to all.
    Vajra Raymaker: It is hard for me to figure out what I am resistant to, and what I am merely making calculations about, weighing
    Maxine Walden: when I try to embrace resistance rather than empower it by resisting...it does seem to melt away
    Yes, embracing, watching, remain aware of something is very different from trying to manipulate or change it.
    Pema Pera: ah, but we can watch resistance without analyzing
    Pema Pera: just watching, tasting it
    Vajra Raymaker: When I get angry at things, I don't usually consider that resistance. I consider it a case where the event that is happening has some kind of symbolic meaning about my past for me.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my resistance is in trusting, the process, that what i think is real
    stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to measure my resistance to something my how much energy I spend "holding on"
    stevenaia Michinaga: letting go is like a sigh
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Vajra Raymaker sighs
    stevenaia Michinaga: followed my a smile
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: by
    Vajra Raymaker: Pema, why is resistance something we want to watch, observe? Also, why is it something we may want to study?
    Pema Pera: watching is a very powerful way of dealing with anything problematic
    Pema Pera: without need to control or to figure out
    Pema Pera: controling and examining are often rather inefficient, compared to just watching
    Vajra Raymaker: Why is resistance problematic?
    Vajra Raymaker: perhaps only the one who imprisons me or the Borg, believe it is problematic
    Paradise Tennant: and resistance usually means you are not fully present .
    Pema Pera: without resistance, we can typically function more smoothly, easily, naturally
    Paradise Tennant: you are coming up with an alternate story to what is :)
    Vajra Raymaker: I need resistance to stand, e.g. resistance to gravity. Do we want to get rid of all resistance?
    Pema Pera: yes, Paradise, energy spent away from what is
    Pema Pera: ah, but you can stand in a way that has no resistance -- but of course we have to make sure what we mean by that
    Pema Pera: tai chi is a way of moving without resistance
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: or chi gong a way of standing without resistance
    Pema Pera: and in yoga we can exploring resistance of the body very directly
    Vajra Raymaker: I was being literal minded. Your muscles resist the force of gravity. So we have a bodily experience of resistance
    Vajra Raymaker: resist the force of gravity when standing e.g.
    Pema Pera: yes, but when muscles operate in a natural way, there is no felt sense of resistance
    Paradise Tennant: hmm often maybe what we are trying to achieve is a balance between internal external forces ... between what is and what we want ..
    Archmage Atlantis: Pema, there are things I must say
    Paradise Tennant: in balance there is little resistance
    Pema Pera: yes, balance is key
    Eliza Madrigal: resting in balance, paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: relaxing into balance...mmm
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Eos Amaterasu: lack of resistance ≠ lack of energy
    Following Paradise and Eos, Eliza pointed to the central problem:
    Eliza Madrigal: yes its funny we think we need the resistance to accomplish things sometimes
    Pema Pera: yes
    Archmage Atlantis: You have created this place, Pema, with hep
    Archmage Atlantis: *hel[
    Archmage Atlantis: I refuse to observe
    Archmage Atlantis: It is time to see
    Archmage Atlantis: To act
    Archmage Atlantis: No longer tooserve
    Archmage Atlantis: This world is to die
    Vajra Raymaker: Engagement is crucial I think too, Arch.
    Archmage Atlantis: It will happen
    Vajra Raymaker: Dear all: There are webcasts of these sessions with the DL on Sunday and Tuesday: http://dalailamacenter.org/conferenc...ce-summit-2009
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn't observation an important prelude to an action?
    Paradise Tennant: thanks vajra .. i will make a point of listening :)
    Maxine Walden: thanks, Vajra, know it is important...
    Paradise Tennant: saw him in toronto .. the air kind of shimmered :)
    Maxine Walden: have to go, all, enjoyed the conversation
    Archmage Atlantis: Atomic bombs, climate chamge. whatever
    Vajra Raymaker: There are some good people who will be talking to him, and work on the project of teaching emotional intelligence in the schools
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Maxine
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine, nice to see you :)
    Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
    Vajra Raymaker: bye Maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    Eos Amaterasu: bye max
    Archmage Atlantis: Pema u have given a foum
    Paradise Tennant: thank you everyone interesting session .. i too have to scoot .. be well :))
    Vajra Raymaker: Also at the summit, lots of women nobel peace prize winning activists and the like dialoguing with the DL
    Pema Pera: bye Paradise!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Paradise :)
    Vajra Raymaker: bye Paradise
    Eliza Madrigal is thankful for the pauses, and think they help me to be more effective
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Paradise
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Para
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Vajra, will certainly watch :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Those who leave, they fear
    Vajra Raymaker: I like the pauses too, and would like to translate the practice of the 15 minute bell into parts of my day
    Archmage Atlantis: We are born
    Archmage Atlantis: We die
    Eliza Madrigal nods... are a few ways to do that... Do you have the link to the bell online?
    Vajra Raymaker: no Eliza. A link?
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
    Pema Pera: bye Steve!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Stevenaia
    Eliza Madrigal: http://www.mindfulnessdc.org/mindfulclock.html
    Archmage Atlantis: Our children live the sa,s
    Vajra Raymaker: Bye Steven
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steven :)
    Pema Pera: It's time for me too to get some sleep. Bye everybody!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am going to go as well, take care everyone :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Pema
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Pema :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye SophiaSharon :)
    Vajra Raymaker: thanks Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: No problem Vajra :)
    Vajra Raymaker: I'm off too
    Archmage Atlantis: Well 3 ramin
    Vajra Raymaker: Take care all
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye :) Nice to see you
    Eos Amaterasu: Moi aussi - it's past pumkin time here
    Vajra Raymaker: : -)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, me too Eos
    Archmage Atlantis: Now w
    Eos Amaterasu: Or was it golden slippers? "-)
    Archmage Atlantis: 2 or 1
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Arch, I hope you find some peace tonight :)
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