2009.10.01 07:00 - Back to Basics

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    The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Yak :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: when do you got to work ?
    genesis Zhangsun: usually I start working around 9
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pdt ?
    genesis Zhangsun: you?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 6 am gmt +1
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thats about 9 pm ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah 9 pm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so ur westcoast ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was just curious because sometimes i wonder when people work or sometimes they are already retired around here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or also very facinating doug and paul whom are both beyond the 70th :)
    genesis Zhangsun: who is Paul?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: paul namboo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: he´s here often with doug
    genesis Zhangsun: oh okay never met him
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i haven´t seen you around here often lately
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and he wasn´t here very often too
    genesis Zhangsun: have you been here often?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i log in and read i don´t talk that much and i even leave the display alone many times
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am still interested how other people reflect their experiences
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i even find words to describe structures i have in mind but couldn´t name properly
    genesis Zhangsun: structures of the mind?
    --BELL--
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what i percieve or what i experience
    Yakuzza Lethecus: often i just don´t know how to describe things
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or it´s just to ridicoulus to say
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i hate that word
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ridiculous
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i always miswrite it
    genesis Zhangsun: why would you feel it is ridiculous?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey pema, gaya
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pema and Gaya
    Gaya Serendipity: Hi gen and Yakuzza :)
    Pema Pera: and hi Gen and Yakuzza!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: gaya = gaya ethaniel ?
    Gaya Serendipity: Yes ... a SL server is spamming Ethaniel acount ... hope this is temporary solution.
    Pema Pera: you escaped on your broomstick!
    Gaya Serendipity: :D
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are you cleaning ur flat right now and escaped into sl ?
    Gaya Serendipity: Escape into SL :)
    Gaya Serendipity: Long time, no see gen. Hope all's well with you.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes nice to see you too Gaya :)
    Gaya Serendipity: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
    Pema Pera: Hi Sophia
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sophia
    Gaya Serendipity: Hello SophiaSharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone :))
    Pema Pera: Was there any topic when Gaya and I arrived, Gen and Yaku?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow Gaya, happy rez day ;p
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i escaped my answer
    Pema Pera: and the question :) ?
    Gaya Serendipity giggles. Thanks SophiaSharon though I'm the same old Gaya.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehehe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: [7:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i even find words to describe structures i have in mind but couldn´t name properly [7:14] genesis Zhangsun: structures of the mind? [7:15] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://playasbeing.wik.is/ [7:15] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence. [7:16] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Thank you. [7:16] Yakuzza Lethecus: what i percieve or what i experience [7:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: often i just don´t know how to describe things [7:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: or it´s just to ridicoulus to say [7:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: i hate that word [7:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: ridiculous [7:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: i always miswrite it [7:18] genesis Zhangsun: why would you feel it is ridiculous?
    Gaya Serendipity: Thanks Yakuzza :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it´s often that i would like to ,,say something interesting"
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Serendipity: I think it takes practice to express oneself. I'm still quite clumsy with it.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but then it even goes away from taking about experience and it´s maybe fear about how i might be percieved
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i dunno
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i can´t reallly be in the moment and describe things that are in the moment for me
    Gaya Serendipity: It's a common fear I think.
    Pema Pera: how about just letting go, not trying to do or get or explain or express anything?
    --BELL--
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Widget
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Widget
    genesis Zhangsun: fancy meeting you here
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Gaya Serendipity: Hello Widget :)
    Pema Pera: hi Widget!
    Widget Whiteberry: ah, that must have been the ending bell
    Widget Whiteberry: I'm glad to be here, late though I am
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey widget
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Pema Pera: As for letting go, Yaku, trying that just for yourself, throughout the day, a few times an hour, as in the 9-sec break, just to drop your focus on what you have, letting it all be? Do you find that hard or confusing?
    Gaya Serendipity: That makese sense ... try to sit in first rather than to do say something.
    Gaya Serendipity: to say something*
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s not that easy, i can sit still, close my eyes, slow down my tongue or other techniques to also stop me thinking, in fact i often get into the same thoughts again which aren´t really to let things just happen it´s really something about ,,i did everything and where is the experience?"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know it´s hard to get rid of the mind
    Pema Pera: I fully understand Yaku
    Pema Pera: I encountered the same problem when I first tried to meditate
    Pema Pera: the main problem there is that meditation doesn't mean suppressing or denying anything
    Pema Pera: it is not about trying to stop thought
    Pema Pera: or trying to change consciousness in any way
    Gaya Serendipity nods ... all thoughts are in a way precious.
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Pema Pera: the main point is to learn to simply watch, watch and appreciate
    Pema Pera: THEN, from that base, things open up slowly and naturally
    Pema Pera: and you'll find everything else coming by itself, including ways to talk about it
    Gaya Serendipity: :)
    Gaya Serendipity shurgs ... well there is no hurry ... is there?
    Widget Whiteberry: does every mindfullness practice lead to different ways to talk about it?
    Widget Whiteberry: I am thinking of the cog sci idea of 'contested concepts'
    Widget Whiteberry: where a commonly understood idea, like identity, or trust, or reputation
    Pema Pera: different techniques may tend to different "flavors" of experience, but the same technique can lead to rather different experiences depending on the person and on the particular moment and mood, etc, of that person
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    Pema Pera: sharing our reports of experience is not an exercise in analyzing the details, but more a sharing of an attitude, an atmosphere, a way of being really
    Pema Pera: inviting all of us to relax into the experiences, and to be more gentle with ourselves
    Pema Pera: and to realize the great diversity in experiences, and that none of them are "right" or "wrong"
    Pema Pera: we tend to be far too judgmental, especially with ourselves . . . . .
    Pema Pera: does that make some sense, Yaku?
    --BELL--
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, it does and in principle i know that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I had a hard time just sitting still that long, Yakuzza :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i behave differently
    SophiaSharon Larnia: 10 minutes ;p
    Widget Whiteberry: How do you behave, Yakuzza?
    Widget Whiteberry reads upthread
    Gaya Serendipity: Gradually one becomes more comfortable in silence or just listening ... with practice :)
    Gaya Serendipity: Even now I get terribly self-conscious sometimes.
    Pema Pera: Yaku, can you describe what goes "wrong", where, how, after you start sitting and try to just watch?
    Pema Pera: what seems to prevent you from just sitting, just watching?
    Widget Whiteberry wonders what happens that is neither sitting quietly nor watching quietly
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry to be so quiet today, I need to go
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now :)
    Pema Pera: bye Sophia!
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Sophiasharon
    Gaya Serendipity: Enjoy your day Sophia :)
    Widget Whiteberry: bye!
    Widget Whiteberry: and now we are 5
    Pema Pera: Widget, if I may ask, have you tried the 9-sec breaks?
    Widget Whiteberry: only here
    Pema Pera: it may be interesting to try it, for just a few hours, during the day, when you feel like.
    Widget Whiteberry: 9 sec, ok
    Widget Whiteberry: how frequently do you recommend?
    Pema Pera: Doing it 4 times an hour for three hours only takes 12x9 seconds, less than 2 minutes :)
    Gaya Serendipity: :)
    Pema Pera: once every 15 minutes is the standard suggestion
    Widget Whiteberry: remembering sounds like the challenge
    Pema Pera: there are 900 seconds in 15 minutes, so 9 seconds is like a 1% time tax :-)
    Widget Whiteberry: I'll attempt it, thank you
    Widget Whiteberry: or a time break
    Pema Pera: yes, it can be a challenge, so there are two ways to do it:
    --BELL--
    Pema Pera: 1) use some kind of alarm clock, on your computer or otherwise, which makes it easy to remember; 2) just do it a few times an hour, without worrying too much exactly when and how often -- either way is fine, whatever you prefer. The interesting aspect of the exploration is to taste the effect of frequency, of doing a similar thing often, and then to taste how different it is each time
    genesis Zhangsun: I must be going!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye gen
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you all
    Gaya Serendipity: Have a good day gen :)
    genesis Zhangsun: bye
    genesis Zhangsun: you too Gaya and everyone
    Widget Whiteberry: bye
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Widget
    Gaya Serendipity: Must get back here too. Nice talking to you all :)
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: bye Gen!
    Pema Pera: it may sound very simple, to just stop for a few seconds, a few times an hour, but I would love to hear what happens when you try to do that, Widget, what you experience, how it feels
    Widget Whiteberry: I'll report back, Pema
    Pema Pera: and then we can start from there, to discuss further why and how such an exploration may be interesting
    Pema Pera: thank you, Widget!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry that i didn´t answer to you before widget
    Widget Whiteberry: thank you, Pema
    Widget Whiteberry: ah, Yahuzza
    Widget Whiteberry: I can sit with you if you have something to say now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no
    Widget Whiteberry: ok
    Pema Pera: I'll have to go back to RL now
    Widget Whiteberry: good to see you again
    Pema Pera: good seeing you both, and till next time!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye you both
    Widget Whiteberry: bye
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