2009.10.03 01:00 - Natural Mind

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

    Bertrum, Qt and Yakuzza joined me for this session.....


    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertrum
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Scath
    Bertrum Quan: How are you this morning?
    Scathach Rhiadra: fine thank you, and you?
    Bertrum Quan: I'm a bit tired but otherwise just fine.
    Bertrum Quan: Do you have a topic or issues for this session?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, not really, have you got anything you would like to discuss?
    Bertrum Quan: I guess a bit tired translates into coming to the session in a more reactive mood.
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)

    so, the topic of 'naturalness', the new topic in the Ways of Knowing workshop at Kira Cafe.....

    Scathach Rhiadra: ok, how about naturalness
    Bertrum Quan: Okay-- what is your general definition?
    Scathach Rhiadra: that is the problem I don't really have one, it is such a vast and vague subject
    Scathach Rhiadra: it is the new topicfor the Ways of Knowing workshop
    Scathach Rhiadra: I am trying to get some connection to it, but most of the suggestions have been about the natural world, or some ideas which seem to be good for debate and opinion..
    Scathach Rhiadra: I suppose I can only think of the nature of mind, our true nature, which does not fit in with the other suggestions
    Bertrum Quan: Natural mind...
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Bertrum Quan: Your sense of "natural" is far more "global" (and compelling to me) than the different views of the natural world.
    Scathach Rhiadra: how so?

    Qt arrives and the discussion focuses on Natural Mind and emptiness......

    Qt Core: hi all
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Qt
    Bertrum Quan: hi QT.
    Bertrum Quan: Is the empty mind the natural mind?
    Scathach Rhiadra: (Qt we have just begun to discuss naturalness)
    Qt Core: ok
    Scathach Rhiadra: I would say so, or maybe the emptiness of mind, which is real knowing awareness
    Qt Core: so... does empty mind exist in nature ? i don't think, in "live" situation it is always hit by multiple inputs
    Scathach Rhiadra: empty mind does not mean without thought or perception, but being more immediately present, and not going with the thoughts, if that makes sense
    Bertrum Quan: If one assumes that "noise" of all types are add-ons, the empty mind is one that get back to the beginning. And I would say it does exist...
    Qt Core: that nice state abruptly broken when you recognize it and wonder whyt you aren't worrying about job/money/S.O./ and such ?
    Scathach Rhiadra listens
    Bertrum Quan: Perhaps QT that absence of worries about job, money, etc. is a characteristic...
    Bertrum Quan: And a global level (not on a literal day-to-day level) the worries are noise--things/thoughts that fill and distract the mind from awareness.
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Bertrum Quan: If one makes that case that our day-to-day, literal thought process is unnatural--filled with "noise" and illusion--that natural mind is empty.
    Bertrum Quan: then natural mind is empty.
    Bertrum Quan: It is a perfect, pure state of awareness...
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: always present, if we could just rest in it
    Qt Core: rethorical (or not) question... but what is good at a empty mind ? in a naturalistic way isn't it a tool to plan/solve worry about mundane things and survive better ?
    Qt Core: brb
    Bertrum Quan: Scath, what is the focus of your Ways of Knowing conversation?
    Scathach Rhiadra: well it is about contemplative traditions in a broad sense...
    Scathach Rhiadra: we covered Buddhist topics mostly, Ethics, co-dependant arising (the last topic), and are now moving on to Naturalness
    Scathach Rhiadra: it is Stim Morane's workshop

    Qt has to leave and Yakuzza arrives......

    Qt Core: sorry have to go, interesting topic, btw
    Scathach Rhiadra: have a good day Qt:)
    Bertrum Quan: Bye QT.
    Qt Core: Ciao
    Bertrum Quan: What's Stim's take on Naturalness?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, he has not said much yet, but from previous conversations I would say it is the true or complete nature of the person or life, completeness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey you both
    Yakuzza Lethecus: anyone know if somebody logged my session yesterday ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i came home to late
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and everyone was gone at 2 pm
    Scathach Rhiadra: he suggested sort of class presentations, and started a list of possible takes on Naturalness, I am at a bit of a loss
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Yakuzza
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Yak.
    Scathach Rhiadra: strangely enough, I have a DVD set of teachings on the desk in front of me, it is called 'Mahamudra: the Natural Mind', but I don't think that would go down too well:)
    Bertrum Quan: Why not?
    Scathach Rhiadra: oh most of the suggestions are about what is natural v unnatural, even one suggestion about genetic modification I think, is it natural, things like that
    Scathach Rhiadra: more about the life around us It seems to me
    Scathach Rhiadra: (sorry Yakuzza, was not here yesterdy, so don't know who took the log)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: np

    Bertrum nicely summarises the heart of the matter...... 

    Bertrum Quan: In tother words, at this juncture the focus is on a more day-to-day sense of life as we know it.   Natural mind it seems to me, attempts to get the global issue--perhaps we might say--the life of the mind...
    Scathach Rhiadra nods, listens
    Bertrum Quan: I think you should bring your idea to the group. It deepens the conversation.
    Scathach Rhiadra: thank you Bertrum, it has been good talking this out:)
    Bertrum Quan: I should get some sleep! Good chatting with you again.
    Bertrum Quan: Bye Scath, Yak.
    Scathach Rhiadra: and with you, have a good night Bertrum, Namaste
    Scathach Rhiadra: I had better go get some breakfast, btw, I know there were some people here last night for your session, so someone has the log, don't worry:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: have a good day Yakuzza, bye:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye

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    Originally written on 13:12, 03 Oct 2009
    Yes I agree Scath!
    I've been turning over the topic for the last few days and well... Maybe Dao's question was timely. Sharing what comes to heart seems to be the way we'll find the scope itself, whether something seems to 'technical' or not? :)
    Posted 11:28, 9 Apr 2010
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