2009.10.04 07:00 - So Martha is Martha Stewart

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

Pema, Bertram, Eliza, Sophia, Yakuzza and Steveaia talked about a number of things. Among the most interesting were Pema's questions and Sophia's answers to her experiences during Ramadan.

Adams Rubble: Good morning Pema :)
Pema Pera: Morning Adams!
Pema Pera: You also like the fountain low, I see
Pema Pera: Hi Bert!
Adams Rubble: yes, easier to see :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Bertram :)
Bertram Jacobus: hello pema and adams :-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
sophia Placebo: hello all :)
Bertram Jacobus: hello sophia ... :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Sophia!
Adams Rubble: I had a wonderful trip to the Rubin Museum of Himalayan Art in NYC yesterday
Adams Rubble: Looking at all the cosmic clashes in Tibetan painting
Adams Rubble: learning that many of the fierce actions displayed are the killing of the "self"
Bertram Jacobus: great
Bertram Jacobus: is this museum already for a long time in ny ?
Adams Rubble: no it is relatively new
Bertram Jacobus: ah. because i never heard about it before ...
Pema Pera: It's a great place, they also have some interesting talks
Bertram Jacobus: hello eliza ... :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Adams Rubble: It has a good website at http://www.rmanyc.org/
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Adams, Bertram, Sophia :)
Bertram Jacobus: talks ? in a museum ? in which form please ?
Pema Pera: We may want to schedule a PaB talk at the Rubin one day
Adams Rubble: lots of information there if you are patient and persist
Adams Rubble: the website that is
Adams Rubble: hehe Pema, yes
sophia Placebo: Hi eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: a joint PaB/Art History workshop session maybe
Pema Pera: Actually, I had been invited to talk at the Rubin, in a dialogue with Shekhar Kapur, the film maker
Adams Rubble: I didn;t know too much about Tibetan Art
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: still invited?
Pema Pera: but his schedule was just too crazy for long-enough planning, so it didn't work out; that was last spring
Pema Pera: but I could suggest something else instead
Pema Pera: it is a very congenial environment for public talks in a cozy smallish room
Bertram Jacobus: nice. and what did you suggest ? :-)
Pema Pera: I didn't yet :)
Adams Rubble: The museum is ion a former department store and the floors are connected by this wonderful open spiral staircase
Bertram Jacobus: oh. what could you suggest ? the pab talk ? :-)
Adams Rubble: that allows you to see objects on the floor below
Pema Pera: yes, the museum has a great layout
Pema Pera: no specific suggestions yet, Bert, but perhaps some day something PaB, why not?
Bertram Jacobus: ok :-)
Pema Pera: little by little, PaB may move into RL, in addition to our SL activities
Pema Pera: starting with the quaterly RL retreats
Bertram Jacobus: yes

Pema Pera: with the Princeton one coming up next month
Adams Rubble: Go East Coast! Yaaaay!
Adams Rubble giggles
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: will you bring your pompoms Adams
Adams Rubble: hehe
Pema Pera: (is that how you called them?)
Bertram Jacobus: i will ask ara wheather it is possible too to come to malta from 24th to 31th of january. there would be the cheapest flights around the retreat ...
Pema Pera: do you still have them?
Adams Rubble: yes, thhat is what they are called
Adams Rubble: Yes, but I am not sure I will be allowed to bring them
Pema Pera: sure, that would be fine, Bert!
Adams Rubble: My RL avatar is such a fuddy duddy
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: the Malta retreat starts Jan. 25, ends Jan. 29
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and it´s a question of costs for some too as i noticed. also for me ...
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: wb Sophia :)
sophia Placebo: ty :) sudden loss of connection !
Pema Pera: Eliza, I'm delighted to hear that you might join us in Princeton as well, next month!
Bertram Jacobus: uh. a german translator ! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Thanks Pema. yes, how exciting :)
sophia Placebo: ops sorry , i should detach that !
Eliza Madrigal: I've got details to play with, but it looks good :)
Pema Pera: great!
Adams Rubble: i arranging my transportation (giggles)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bertram Jacobus: what will you do / what will happen in princeton ?
Eliza Madrigal: haha.. I'm just waking up and now see that Sohpia is indeed channging the light here... not just my blurry eyes :
Eliza Madrigal: *Sophia
Bertram Jacobus: and where does the changing coloured light here come from ? :-)
Pema Pera: we will get together for two full days, with brief meetings the night before and the morning after, so four days in some sense, Bert -- and then we'll talk and explore
Bertram Jacobus: ah. one question alredy solved ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: answered before you ask, Bert ;-)
sophia Placebo: :)) thats my glasses
Bertram Jacobus: whaow. already again. great pema :-)
Bertram Jacobus: yes eliza. sometimes such happens - ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: uh. the glasses ! strange things are in the world ... ;-)

Pema Pera: How was Ramadan, Sophia?
sophia Placebo: busy and busy and busy
Pema Pera: in what way?
sophia Placebo: the daily schedule , withou sl i had to fill in with things
Pema Pera: I thought you would have more free time left, without eating during the day . . .
sophia Placebo: :) indeed
sophia Placebo: but generally was lovely Ramadhan
sophia Placebo: though it was busy but one got a time to be with himself
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: that is so important :)
Pema Pera: How does it feel, to have a whole month that is so different? Can you sketch a little of what it is like?
sophia Placebo: thats becaus everyine knows that this is what they do in ramadhan so it wouldnt be like a freak if you sit a lone and read quraan or prayed more frequently
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: nice to have such a natural opportunity
sophia Placebo: well , hmm, it is like what you feel when autumn comes
Adams Rubble nods
Pema Pera: so being busy is mostly busy with your own activities, in your own room, or also with group's activities?
sophia Placebo: can be both depend on you
sophia Placebo: i prefer alone ,but many like groups activities
Pema Pera: how do the transitions feel, Sophia, getting into Ramadhan and getting out of it?
--BELL--
sophia Placebo: :) if you love ramadhan you would be happy when it comes and relativly sad if it goes without getting much from it , first the body adaptation to fewer meals ,then the change in the duty time here at least , then the enviroment that goes much rich with quraan recitation ,prayers and special events for ramadan
sophia Placebo: your transition - isnt really transition
Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like a real time of refreshment Sophia, or at least the opportunity
sophia Placebo: yes opportunity
Bertram Jacobus: sry. too much computer today already. have to take a pause. and to try to meet ara this evening . ty all and have a nice time ! may all beings be happy ...
Adams Rubble: bye Bertram
sophia Placebo: bye bert
Pema Pera: bye Bert!
Bertram Jacobus: ty again all :-)
Adams Rubble: Very interesting questions and answers Pema and Sophia
Pema Pera: is there a particular feast before or after Ramadhan? In Christianity, there is Carnival before Lent, for example
Pema Pera: Lent being the time of fasting
Pema Pera: and Carnival or Mardi Gras the feast
sophia Placebo: we have Eid
sophia Placebo: not really feast but celebration of the completion of the whole month
sophia Placebo: as if we are happy we fasted 30 days
Pema Pera: interesting difference, having it at the end, rather than at the beginning, as with Carnival
Adams Rubble: aster is considered a feast
Adams Rubble: Easter
Pema Pera: ah, of course, so there are two feasts in Christianity, at each side
Adams Rubble: I listened to chants of Jain women yesterday at the museum at the end of their fasting period
Pema Pera: interestingly, in Protestantism, there is no Carnival, only Easter
Adams Rubble: It was moving
Adams Rubble: yes, Protestants are fuddy duddys about that stuff (giggles)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: may I ask, Sophia, whether you chose a particular part of the quraan to read during Ramadhan?
sophia Placebo: :) we usually read all quraan during the month
sophia Placebo: but i couldnt this year
Pema Pera: it must be nice to get a complete overview of the whole book then in a short time!
sophia Placebo: yes it is :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Sophia :)
Adams Rubble: Thank you Sophia :)
--BELL--
sophia Placebo: this may give an idea about the importance of the month
Pema Pera: may I copy it here in the chat log, Sophia, for readers who are not here today?
sophia Placebo: sure i just thought that would be too long for the chat
Adams Rubble: I can paste it into the log
Adams Rubble has magic powers today :)
Pema Pera: thanks, Adams!
Pema Pera: hehehe

O People! The month of Allah (Ramadan) has come with its mercies, blessings and forgiveness. Allah has decreed this month the best of all months. The days of this month are the best among the days and the nights are the best among the nights and the hours during Ramadan are the best among the hours. This is a month in which you have been invited by Him (to fast and pray). Allah has honored you in it. In every breath you take is a reward of Allah, your sleep is worship, your good deeds are accepted and your invocations are answered.

Therefore, you must invoke your Lord in all earnestness with hearts free from sin and evil, and pray that Allah may help you to keep fast, and to recite the Holy Qur’an. Indeed, miserable is the one who is deprived of Allah’s forgiveness in this great month.

While fasting, remember the hunger and thirst on the Day of Judgment. Give alms to the poor and needy. Pay respect to your elders, have sympathy for your youngsters and be kind towards your relatives and kinsmen. Guard your tongue against unworthy words, and your eyes from scenes that are not worth seeing (forbidden) and your ears from sounds that should not be heard.

Be kind to orphans so that if your children may become orphans they will also be treated with kindness. Do repent to Allah for your sins and supplicate with raised hands at the times of prayer as these are the best times, during which Allah Almighty looks at His servants with mercy. Allah Answers if they supplicate, Responds if they call, Grants if He is asked, and Accepts if they entreat.

O people! You have made your conscience the slave of your desires. Make it free by invoking Allah for forgiveness. Your back may break from the heavy load of your sins, so prostrate yourself before Allah for long intervals, and make this load lighter. Understand fully that Allah has promised in His Honor and Majesty that, people who perform salat and sajdah (prostration) will be guarded from Hell-fire on the Day of Judgment.

O people! If anyone amongst you arranges for iftar (meal at sunset) for any believer, Allah will reward him as if he had freed a slave, and Allah will forgive him his sins. A companion asked: “but not all of us have the means to do so” The Prophet (p.b.u.h.& h.f.) replied: Keep yourself away from Hell-fire though it may consist of half a date or even some water if you have nothing else.

O people! Anyone who during this month cultivates good manners will walk over the Sirat (bridge to Paradise) on the day when feet will tend to slip. For anyone who during this month eases the workload of his servants, Allah will make easy his accounting, and for anyone who doesn’t hurt others during this month, Allah will safeguard him from His Wrath on the Day of Judgment. Anyone who respects and treats an orphan with kindness during this month, Allah shall look at him with kindness on that Day. Anyone who treats his kinsmen well during this month, Allah will bestow His Mercy on him on that Day, while anyone who mistreats his kinsmen during this month, Allah will keep away from His Mercy.

Whosoever offers the recommended prayers during this month, Allah will save him from Hell, and whoever observes his obligations during this month, his reward will be seventy times the reward during other months. Whoever repeatedly invokes Allah’s blessings on me, Allah will keep his scale of good deeds heavy, while the scales of others will be tending to lightness. Whoever recites during this month an ayah (verse) of the Holy Qoran, will get the reward of reciting the whole Qoran in other months.

O people! The gates of Paradise remain open during this month. Pray to your Lord that they may not be closed for you. While the gates of Hell are closed, pray to your Lord that they never open for you. Satan has been chained; invoke your Lord not to let him dominate you.”

Ali ibn Talib (RA) said: “I asked, ‘O messenger of Allah, what are the best deeds during this month?” ‘He replied: ‘O Abu-Hassan, the best of deeds during this month is to be far from what Allah has forbidden

Pema Pera: (sorry about the 90 seconds; I overlooked the signal)
Adams Rubble: Is this from the Quran Sophia?
sophia Placebo: no this is prophet sermon
Pema Pera: Hi Yaku!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)
sophia Placebo: hello yak
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Adams Rubble: Hello Yak :)
Adams Rubble: I like the turn in the last line to not do in order to do
Adams Rubble: a bit like wu wei
Pema Pera: yes, not reaching for something special
sophia Placebo: wu wei ?
Pema Pera: just living as well as you can
Adams Rubble: not doing
sophia Placebo: yes it is the hardest
Eliza Madrigal: paying attention to one's behavior and motives can create a kind of receptive shared environment...one feels perhaps 'worthy' of good things..
Pema Pera: wu wei is a Taoist notion, sometimes expressed as wei-wu-wei, doing by not doing
Pema Pera: doing without friction, without manipulation
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, and so inspire and stimulate others
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble nods
sophia Placebo: what do you mean by worthy of good things eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well I was thinking that these texts are very similar across traditions at times...
Eliza Madrigal: and that in our day to day lives we often are worn down, coping...
Eliza Madrigal: so opportunities to renew our commitments
Adams Rubble: There is a parable of Christ
Eliza Madrigal: and to turn our hearts to brighter things is an opening
Adams Rubble: of a large banquet
Adams Rubble: and one person invited does not feel "worthy"
Adams Rubble: and sits at the far end of the table from the host
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steven :)
sophia Placebo: sure adams , in islamic point of view islam is not an original , it is what other traditions came with
Adams Rubble: the host sees him and brings him up to the head of the tab;le
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, rather late, pls continue
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
sophia Placebo: hi steve
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: being worthy by his humbleness
Eliza Madrigal: And we carry guilt around for things... when we renew commitments and acknowledge our limitations and weaknessess... our needs and fragility... then maybe we find we were holding back 'paradise'... in a sense there all the time?
Pema Pera: Yes, that's a moving story, Adams, I remember it from bible class
Adams Rubble: hrist follows that with "The last shall be first and the first last"
Pema Pera: yes, all is there, Eliza, we are the one trying to shut it out
Eliza Madrigal: I like the way you talk about the white dot, Sophia
Pema Pera: no no
Pema Pera: I'll have to get back to RL . . . thank you, Sophia, and all!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye pema
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :)
sophia Placebo: bye pema
Pema Pera: bfn
Eliza Madrigal: But honestly I've thought about the picture of the white dot of purity in our hearts... it has real resonance across traditions
sophia Placebo: really?
Eliza Madrigal: seeds in Buddhism perhaps, and in Christianity 'guarding the heart with dilligence for out of it springs the virtues of life"
sophia Placebo: yes
Eliza Madrigal: there's this idea of cultivation and paying attention
Eliza Madrigal: really beautiful
Adams Rubble: the guarding is interesting
Adams Rubble: the heart is by nature open and vulnerable
Eliza Madrigal: I like to impose cultivating over guarding, in a sense...
Eliza Madrigal: but that's just me :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it may mean nearly the same thing.... but there is also a kind of zero-ing in on what is essential

Mary and Martha 

Eliza Madrigal: paying attention to the 'most important' like Mary of Mary and Martha fame...hehe
sophia Placebo nods
Adams Rubble: I wonder if sometimes Martha might protect Mary
Adams Rubble: watch oput for her
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye for now
Eliza Madrigal giggles... Mary might not function too well without Martha giving her a 'to do' list
Adams Rubble: bye Yak
sophia Placebo: bye yak
Eliza Madrigal: Bye ya :)
Adams Rubble: hehe Eliza
Adams Rubble: "where's my dinner?"
Adams Rubble giggles
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: "You've been peeling that potato 'mindfully' for four hours!"
Adams Rubble giggles
Adams Rubble: nicely put Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: or 20 years in my case
Eliza Madrigal: hahahaha
Adams Rubble laughs
Eliza Madrigal: How are you, Steve?
Adams Rubble: I hope we are not excluding you Steve and Sophia
sophia Placebo: i have to leave , see you later !
sophia Placebo: not at all eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye sophia! Thanks for sharing this morning... always so interesting
Adams Rubble: bye Sophia. Thank you very much :)
Adams Rubble: Eliza and I have been playing with the Mary/Martha story
sophia Placebo: thats cuz you asked intersting questions and give intersting comments
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you and Hugs :) See you soon
Eliza Madrigal: anyone who doesn't know mary and martha by now...
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Adams Rubble: like rock stars
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: hey, could work
Eliza Madrigal: tour bus and all... maybe that's the next step for PaB...
Adams Rubble: Martha playing the bass, drums and guitar
Eliza Madrigal giggles wildly
Adams Rubble: Mary singing dreaminly
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams til sunbeams find you...
Adams Rubble: something like thhat :)
Eliza Madrigal is just now waking up :)
Adams Rubble: was it Marthha's playing?
stevenaia Michinaga: mary and Martha
stevenaia Michinaga: ?
Adams Rubble: It is another Christian story
stevenaia Michinaga: I msut live in a diferent cultureal neighborhood
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, very diferent
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Martha is on the drums... making sure everyone is keeping time
Adams Rubble: Christ went to the house of Mary and Martha. Mary sat listening to Christ while Martha did all the work preparing the meal. Martha complained about doing all the work and Christ corrected her syaing that is right for Mary to be listening to him and that work was not important
Eliza Madrigal: Well... that mary had chosen what was vital, in any event
Adams Rubble: metaphorically Mary is our spiritual side and martha our secular
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble: Martha living in the world
Eliza Madrigal: jesus in suburbia
Adams Rubble: Mary in timelessness
Eliza Madrigal giggles
stevenaia Michinaga: so martha is Martha Stewart
Adams Rubble: oh my
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: yes, Stewart was named well :)
Eliza Madrigal: Mary would drive her mad, I'm sure
Adams Rubble: Mary come here we need to make Thanksgiving centerpieces
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: I chose these three eggs from the five thousand I gathered this morning...
Adams Rubble giggles
Adams Rubble: in the prison exercise area
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: One of the most spiritual women I've ever known was actually a good balance of both... she was so meticulous in her work...
Eliza Madrigal: and yet expansive in the tiny details
Eliza Madrigal: a gourmet chef and poet
stevenaia Michinaga: well I must run and attempt to be productive today, restore my work/play balance
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: always good to see you Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: see you in november, Adams
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Have a lovely Sunday :)
Eliza Madrigal: And perhaps me too, Steve
Adams Rubble: oh great, glad you are coming
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Adams Rubble: bye for now :)
Eliza Madrigal: Then there were two
Adams Rubble brings down the gavel with a big splash
Eliza Madrigal wipes her eyes