2009.10.07 07:00 - Exploring What You Already Have

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who arrived to Yakuzza present. We chatted for a few minutes about a mutual explorations, then were joined by Genesis, Sophia, and Mary.

    I thought this session had many hidden treasures, especially toward the end where Yakuzza describes his outlook and approach to what he has been learning.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hiliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza!
    Eliza Madrigal: How are you today?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fine, trying to relax :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ::::breathe::::
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hope you didn´t had a rough start in the day
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, no... Not at all. Thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Your day has been hectic?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, it was a regular day
    Eliza Madrigal: :)... its just another day... la la la
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nothing unexpected happened so far
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: I woke up with a funny way of looking at things this morning....
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been rather studious re 'spiritual' things for a while now... and mostly the changes I've seen have been internal....
    Eliza Madrigal: with a few changes here and there that I'd classify as 'outer'...
    Eliza Madrigal: but this morning I woke up as though I'd been given a new assignment "Awakening Phase II"
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eliza Madrigal: I have no idea what that means, but there is a light and happy feeling about it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t cathegorize changes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i think they happen and i still try to understand how and where to go :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods...yes I probably have too much fun with patterns sometimes


    Eliza Madrigal: Have you thought about our WoK topic this week?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thought yes, constructive things no
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: It seems to be a wide-open topic ... "Naturalness"
    Eliza Madrigal: especially as the last few weeks there have been so much natural turbulence...earthquakes, floods, etc
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i still need clearification on that term :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i noticed me using naturalness even in the relation to other people
    Yakuzza Lethecus: where do i behave natural, and when does my naturalness change because i might care to much about other ppl percieving me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and therefore loosing my naturalness even unintentionally
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, yes... authenticity
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have a problem with authenticity since the change is not even intentional but habitual
    Eliza Madrigal: Different people bring up different aspects of one's personality too, I think... so it isn't always easy to see why/how one changes
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, we play roles for many reasons... some for ourselves and our own comfort maybe, but some for others
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello mary
    Mary Korpov: hi
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Genesis :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mary
    Mary Korpov: hi
    Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza and I were talking about naturalness/authenticity
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Yak , ELiza, and Mary
    Eliza Madrigal: a little... but does anyone have a pressing topic?
    genesis Zhangsun: sounds like a great topic

    Caring what others think...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting for example when i first joined kira i didn´t care about how people saw me, but since i am around these places every day it matters more and i just loose the ,,just exploring feeling
    Mary Korpov: When you say you don't care about how people see you, do you mean in SL, RL or both?
    Mary Korpov: that should be "didn't care..."
    Eliza Madrigal: That makes sense. At first there is strong anonymity, but after a while one gets to know people even in a context like this one :)
    Mary Korpov: I don't feel as though I can ever be close to anyone in SL
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only second life when i know nobody, in the exploring context, so often i just participated in events and i was more relaxed nobody knowing me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s kinda irrational
    Mary Korpov: Inr RL do/did you care about what others think of you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even too much
    Mary Korpov: I don't in either SL or RL
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i would not even been at any place people talking about buddism intentionally
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and here it just happeded by accident :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure this place is not about buddism, but many people are much into that topic around here
    Mary Korpov: in a sort of pop-Buddhism way, it seems to me at times
    Mary Korpov: I've never thought of Buddhism as something one is "in to"
    Eliza Madrigal: Well it is a framework
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i didn´t mean only buddism i mean a place like this but there are people around here pretty competent in buddism
    Yakuzza Lethecus looks to genesis
    Mary Korpov: That's an interesting idea, "competent in Buddhism" I
    Mary Korpov: I'm not sure what that implies
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well versed
    Mary Korpov: Well versed in the texts? Or experienced in practice?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
    Mary Korpov: And, we treat "Buddhism" as though it is a monolithic thing, but it is very different in different places
    genesis Zhangsun: Mary has anyone introduced you to our community?
    sophia Placebo: hi yak all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia! :)
    Mary Korpov: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: Given you a notecard about our practices, etx?
    genesis Zhangsun: great, well what we do is not Buddhism per se
    Mary Korpov: I know
    Mary Korpov: But Yakuzza raised Buddhism
    genesis Zhangsun: however many of the people who become involved in our community are Buddhists and have their own practice
    Mary Korpov: As a talking point, I thought
    Mary Korpov: I am a Buddhist
    genesis Zhangsun: wonderful! and have you considered trying the Play as Being explorations? or do you have your own practice?
    Mary Korpov: Being a Buddhist is niether wonderful nor not wonderful, it just is. I practice constantly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: How good does the explaination a place for mindfullness and general chat fit this place ?
    genesis Zhangsun: well wonderful in the sense of "thanks for sharing that with us"
    Eliza Madrigal: That's nice, yakuzza
    Eliza Madrigal: I think what makes PaB special also though, is that we have group explorations too... that though there are many people of various traditions...
    Eliza Madrigal: we join hands and explore together
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sophia!
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry I missed you sitting there
    sophia Placebo: :) hi
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia you look so pretty today
    Eliza Madrigal: (Sophia is a shapeshifter extraordinaire..hehe)
    sophia Placebo: so you do eliza ! love yellow
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
    sophia Placebo: and gen hair too look pretty
    genesis Zhangsun: :) thanks
    genesis Zhangsun: you too sophia!
    sophia Placebo: what was the topic ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia we started off talking about what is natural/authenticity... then the focus of PaB

    Describing Play as Being

    sophia Placebo: ok
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, there is my mind right now, i still don´t know how to describe play as being exactly but it raised many interests for me
    Mary Korpov: Why isn't it reversed? Being as Play?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's nice Mary! Actually sure it is...
    Eliza Madrigal: the phrases can be played with
    Mary Korpov: "REality" is just a shell game we invent with our minds
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i could imagine that we might should play as the being or practice to be the being that we are but lost somehow ?
    sophia Placebo: so we can turn water to wine with our minds ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh my gosh :)
    Eliza Madrigal: What I often think is that we gather together to share notes and a few explorations... and in that process...as we bring our interests and energies to the pool....
    Eliza Madrigal: we sometimes fall into Being together
    Eliza Madrigal: and so there is this feeling of losing ourselves in the play
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is losing ourselves into greater awakeness... rather than visa versa.
    sophia Placebo: i am not sure how to describe play as being yet
    Eliza Madrigal: Funny to describe
    sophia Placebo: yes
    Mary Korpov: Perhaps that's the problem. Don't try--it can't be described and to describe it is to limit it
    sophia Placebo: :)
    sophia Placebo: can we work without limits ?
    Mary Korpov: why work?
    sophia Placebo: why not ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mary Korpov: none of this matters
    Yakuzza Lethecus: don´t work, just be :)
    sophia Placebo: just be rock ?
    Mary Korpov: no, just be
    genesis Zhangsun: or celebrate, which can include the use of language
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: language is part of the play
    Mary Korpov: Don't celebrate, just be
    sophia Placebo: so ia dance
    sophia Placebo: why work isnt part of be ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    sophia Placebo: haha
    Eliza Madrigal giggles @ Ya
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nobody wears it
    genesis Zhangsun: hehe
    genesis Zhangsun: I didn't get one
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so in that case you can´t dance sophia :P
    genesis Zhangsun: being can include of course celebration and dance
    genesis Zhangsun: being is a dance
    sophia Placebo: onigokko is a dance ?
    genesis Zhangsun: being is a celebration

    Mary's view of what the message of Buddhism and 'just be' is...

    Mary Korpov: What I meant is don't differentialt. Work/play/sadness/happiness/celebration/despair/ Just be
    Mary Korpov: I don't thin being is celebration. It is suffering
    sophia Placebo: be indeffrent ?
    Mary Korpov: yes
    sophia Placebo: why?
    Mary Korpov: because none of this matters
    sophia Placebo: it dosnt matter if your child is autistic and never smile nor say i love you momy
    Mary Korpov: This is the message of Buddhism. Do I entirely agree? No. But there is a point to it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Well the message is that when we don't expect to escape suffering, we can begin to live, rather than trying to escape
    Eliza Madrigal: or part of it anyway
    Mary Korpov: The Buddhist response would be that the autistic child just is. I have difficulties living that way. I love my children.
    Mary Korpov: And I enjoy receiving their love. But that is a form of clinging
    sophia Placebo: and hitler too?
    Mary Korpov: Hitler just is
    Mary Korpov: The first lesson of Buddhism is that the world is suffering; so Hitler fits right in, actually
    genesis Zhangsun: sounds like poison to combat poison in a way as you describe it Mary suffering to combat suffering
    Mary Korpov: Not at all. The end to suffering is detachment
    genesis Zhangsun: what form of Buddhism do you practice to be more specific?
    Mary Korpov: zen
    sophia Placebo: that an easy world to live in , just be
    genesis Zhangsun: well some might disagree that detachment is really the cure to attachment
    Mary Korpov: But these ideas go back to Shakyamuni
    Eliza Madrigal does not think of detachment as cold distance... but rather as peace within connection
    Mary Korpov: people disagree to a lot of things
    genesis Zhangsun: what form of zen exactly?
    Mary Korpov: rinzai
    Mary Korpov: But that doesn't really matter. Sects are also forms of clinging

    Ecumenical Sangha

    Eliza Madrigal: Mary, what do you feel draws you to Play as Being?
    Mary Korpov: No idea
    genesis Zhangsun: I agree Mary, our approach is quite ecumenical
    genesis Zhangsun: thats a great question Eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus whispers *these are the moments i like to be on pab, this is when i learn something new or get something i can elaborate on further*
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: as you know Mary, community is an important supplement to dharma and practice
    genesis Zhangsun: this is what we provide for each other this community component
    genesis Zhangsun: a sort of virtual sangha without being purely "buddhist" or "christian" or of any particular religion
    genesis Zhangsun: encouraging one another to explore
    genesis Zhangsun: and some people just come for the good conversation of course :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well and starting from Being means that it isn't about a particular tradition....
    Eliza Madrigal: though all traditions have something to offer
    Mary Korpov: they do?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't see Mary the Buddhist... or at least that's not the intention
    Mary Korpov: But it doesn't matter to me if you see Mary the Buddhist or anything else
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I know this :)
    genesis Zhangsun: what matters to u Mary?
    Mary Korpov: That is personal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, the ,,to offer issue", i also thought in the past that things like buddism would offer some exciting experiences, but as more a s i listen to conversations here or some bodcasts it´s really just to be as it seems, it´s exploring what you already have, and the irrational believe of ,,wanting to know something cool and fancy is preventing you from exactly that
    Mary Korpov: right. No exciting experiences
    genesis Zhangsun: nicely put Yak
    Mary Korpov: isness
    Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks out, bye!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye yakuzza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it isn't natural to feel 'nothing' either, imo... think accepting that life is suffering brings with it a certain sensitivity
    Eliza Madrigal: but surely everyone finds their own balace :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, I should get moving along also...
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Gen and Mary :)
    Mary Korpov: bye
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry I missed you Eliza!
    genesis Zhangsun: I have to go too
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to talk to you Mary and Yak

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