2009.10.11 08:00 - A New Start for Weekly Guardian Meetings

This morning we got together in the newly built Village Hall, spanning two sims in the middle of the border between BaikUn and Bieup.  In total, there would be 17 guardians present: Adams, Arabella, Bertram, Corvuscorva, Eliza, Eos, Gaya, Genesis, Maxine, Pema, Pila, Qt, Scathach, SophiaSharon, Storm, Widget, Yakuzza.

When I arrived, at 8 am, Gaya was talking with Storm, the builder of our new Village Hall.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pema and Yakuzza :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Gaya, but it's a borrowed then heavily adjusted build!
Gaya Ethaniel: I like it very much :)
Pema Pera: hi everybody! We'll get overflow from the last session coming in now :)
Eliza Madrigal: wow I really love this place
Bertram Jacobus: hy everybody ! ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila, Bertram, Qt, Eliza and Widget :)
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Adams :)
Maxine Walden: hi, all. Back with coffee
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: greetings, all, I'm pleased to be here
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello SophiaSharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone!
Bertram Jacobus: yes : really nice place here ! ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath :)
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow the list of hello is really long, so a big wave to all!!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya, all:)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes, Hello everyone
Pema Pera: Thank you for creating this marvellous space, Storm!
Storm Nordwind: My pleasure. :)
Maxine Walden: yes, just appreciating it, Storm
Maxine Walden: love the tiered seating
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes very skillfull
Adams Rubble: Three cheers for Storm :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: cheers
Storm Nordwind blushes
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: I wonder how many of you remember theold weekly meetings we had, in the hall of appearance, a year or so ago?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)#
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Maxine Walden: just thinking of those meetings as well
Storm Nordwind thinks "Was that a whole year ago?!"
Pema Pera: Adams, Gaya, Corvi, Maxine, Storm, I guess about half of us?
Adams Rubble sings "I remember it well"
Widget Whiteberry: ah, yes ....
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
arabella Ella: Hiya
Bertram Jacobus: [hey] ;o)

Pema Pera: We don't have any particular agenda for today
Pema Pera: but if there is anything that you would like to bring up, comment or question or suggestion, please feel free to do so!
Adams Rubble: Are you ready to tell us what the working group is going to do?
Adams Rubble: or is that still being worked out?
Pema Pera: as soon as the group has decided, we can tell you :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: yes, we're just starting to work on that
Adams Rubble withdraws the question
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: I'm basically in the process of doing a core dump
Pema Pera: as nerds would say :)
Widget Whiteberry: how is that decision made?
Pema Pera: listing up the kind of coordination roles that I have been playing so far
Widget Whiteberry: after the core dump part?
Pema Pera: and discussing how todivide those roles
Pema Pera: What we plan to do, Widget, is to come up with suggestions first,
Pema Pera: then to document those on the PaB wiki,
Pema Pera: and to ask everyone for feedback
Pema Pera: feedback that can be given in these weekly meetings, and/or in emails to the PaB group
Pema Pera: in any organization, no matter how loose and open, there is always a lot more work and coordination going on behind the scenes than meets the eye . . ..
Pema Pera: and the challenge is to make all of that compltely transparent
Widget Whiteberry: we may look serene as ducks floating on the stream, but look underneath and we are paddling like mad
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Pema Pera: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: while getting our webby feet entangled regularly in weeds . . . .
Widget Whiteberry: so long as it isn't that devil plant from Harry Potter ....
Maxine Walden: what challenges do you see regarding transparency, Pema?
Pema Pera: mostly the willingness to put in the time to document it all, Maxine
Maxine Walden: so the group might appreciate some of the 'behind the scenes'
Pema Pera: appreciate and help improve
Pema Pera: in the "open source" tradition of computer scientists working jointly on software -- and wikipedia is the greatest example so far
Qt Core: (and documenting is the usual problems ;-) )
Eos Amaterasu: "rough consensus, and working code"
Pema Pera: (yes, Qt!! so it will help to point out what is missing in the documentation!!)
Adams Rubble: Sometimes it may just be helpful is to see how decisions are made rather than see every decision
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello genesis :)
Pema Pera: Hi Gen!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
genesis Zhangsun: sorry I am late
arabella Ella: Hiya Gen
Pema Pera: We started a page on the PaB wiki, specifically for the Working Group: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Working_Group
Maxine Walden: hi, gen
Pema Pera: there isn't much there yet, but we'll flesh that out considerable, and we count on all of you to give us feedback and to help us fill in it
Eliza Madrigal: So these meetings in particular, seem key, because it is good to hear from everyone
Bertram Jacobus: i think about "quality better than quantity" - in a way adams metioned before ... could help to avoid too much work too perhaps ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I can certainly think in advance for any feedback to give to the working group during these Sunday meetings if any.
Adams Rubble: The working group will need time to sleep (giggles)
Pema Pera: perchance to dream . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Storm Nordwind wonders what this "sleep" concept is...
Adams Rubble: you'll have to reaad this morning's session after I post it Storm :)
Eos Amaterasu is starting to have mixed sl/rl dreams
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Maxine Walden: one concern that Pema may have, which I have known myself re transition in structure, is that all the details be preserved, or not get lost. The concern of things lost to memory in transition may be an aspect here
Widget Whiteberry does too
Gaya Ethaniel: Well, there are loads of project management tools people can use together online and free.
Eos Amaterasu: Good point. Early Kira/PaB history and interaction for example
Gaya Ethaniel: I mean the working group to use, secure and real-time.
Gaya Ethaniel: It will eliminate strings of emails, just a suggestion.
Maxine Walden: interesting, Gaya
genesis Zhangsun: yes Gaya, like?
Gaya Ethaniel: Let me find a few ... one moment
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.nozbe.com/
Gaya Ethaniel: There is a limit on # of projects to have it free but I don't think that will be an issue for the working group.
genesis Zhangsun: great Gaya thanks!
Gaya Ethaniel: np I will send you more if I remember anything else but that one has good reviews.
Pema Pera: Thank you Gaya!
Pema Pera: In any organization, there are three key aspects: ideas for new activities, starting up those activities, and making sure that they continue as long as needed and wind down when no longer needed
Pema Pera: The first two steps are relatively easy; the third step is where some kind of structure is needed, some form of coordination: hence the working group
Pema Pera: so ideally the working group should serve, not lead; tying up loose ends, while the new ideas come from us all
Maxine Walden: that is a wonderful model, working group to serve; the problem may be when this group (us here) wanes in its 'leadership' or gets dull for some reason, then the perception of 'leadership' shifts to the working group...possibly with resentment
Pema Pera: hence openness and transparency, as antidote, preventing resentment from taking root :)
Pila Mulligan: the attractive element here is healthy friendship -- groups within groups can become a source of friction, for that consensus is the best medicine
Maxine Walden: my experience is that we each need to keep active and participant to keep things fresh feeling and vibrant
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I must go...
Storm Nordwind: And good free-flowing communication, both ways, between the two
Pema Pera: yes, Pila!
Pema Pera: bye Corvi
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye corvi
arabella Ella: bye Corvi
Maxine Walden: bye corvi
genesis Zhangsun: bye Corvi!
Eliza Madrigal: We all share in the joys of PaB, and sharing responsibility for giving ideas/helping with details is a good way to nurture that... and in that kind of spirit?
Eos Amaterasu: Playing as working as being
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pema Pera: PaWaB
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Eliza Madrigal: and so many talented people :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Maxine Walden: yes, Eliza!
Pema Pera: In particular we would really like to hear from you all what you think has been missing so far, or not emphasized enough.
Pema Pera: One thing that I keep hearing occasionally is a desire for more concerted forms of practice and talking about practice and sharing what we learn from that -- is that representative for all of us?
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t miss anything at the moment in pab ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I would like to learn more about/do explorations, like in a retreat setting.. i suspect this is more structured, or a theme?
Maxine Walden: I have felt that absence often in the sessions where I am guardina
Maxine Walden: guardian
Pema Pera: (lovely expression: guardina!)
Maxine Walden: yes, Italian, you know!
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry Maxine, I didn't quite get that. What does 'absence' refer to please?
Maxine Walden: sorry, Gaya: absence of the sharing of our practice, focussing on it, even in the session
Adams Rubble: Maybe part of the sharing is due to the growth. Meeting here together might help us past thaat
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok thank you :)
Adams Rubble: that we all meet together again
Adams Rubble: and focus on PaB itself
Pema Pera: Yes, Sophia, focusing more on explorations could be done in retreats, SL and/or RL, and also in our regular sessions, and of course also in email discussions in the PaB email group

Adams Rubble: I have not felt as comfortable sharing as I did earlier but maybe that is only me
Maxine Walden: Adams, please say more
Maxine Walden: you likely speak for not only yourself,
Gaya Ethaniel: I have felt the same Adams.
Adams Rubble: I knew I could count on support from the group
Adams Rubble: It was a feeling of comfort
Adams Rubble: these things aren't somply exxplained in one session
Adams Rubble: there is a continuity between
Adams Rubble: does that make sense ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, to ponder
Adams Rubble steals Pema's line
Adams Rubble: :)
Maxine Walden: a container for concerns and emotions over time?
Gaya Ethaniel nods. Well, guess me spending less time at PaB contributes towards that ...
Adams Rubble: I am having powerful experiences right now I would love to talk about btw
Pila Mulligan: :)
Adams Rubble: yes, gaya, me too
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Storm Nordwind: Do you think the larger number of people involved nowadays is a contributor to that Adams?
Gaya Ethaniel: My reasons are different though ... I just find it difficult to articulate on demand spontaneously. This is a lack on my part, not the group.
Adams Rubble: Storm, I think so but Gaya made a good point too. I am not attending as much
Pila Mulligan: just guessing, but I think one part of it may be a limitation inherent in the virtual world venue
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry for not being there for you enough Adams ...
Maxine Walden: maybe this group, group of guardians (or guardinas) might be a place for that kind of sharing
Eliza Madrigal: I've heard this from others also though.. not something specific often, but a hesitancy
Adams Rubble: I don;t agree with you Pila about it being an SL problem
Adams Rubble: I could not nhave done what I did except in a virtual world
Pila Mulligan: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Pila Mulligan: but then what?
Pila Mulligan: [8:43] Adams Rubble: I aam having powerful experiences right now I would love to talk about btw
Adams Rubble: I am still in play Pila but not sharing as much
Pila Mulligan: what inhibits the ability to talk about them now?
arabella Ella: trust perhaps? or lack of bonding as a team of participants?
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes, when we are in at the start of something, we feel very connected to it and identify with its growth. But then when it does grow it seems to "need" us less and grow without us, and we can feel less connected. :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well, and sharing that one has been hesitant is talking about it too
Pila Mulligan: the more personal we get in our relationships the more we need hugs
Adams Rubble: yes Storm
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm, yes
Maxine Walden: interesting point, Storm
Adams Rubble: :) Pila
Pema Pera: yes, a year ago we had the freshness of PaB as a young sapling, and we continue to face to challenge to renew that -- as we are doing now, with these meetings here
Qt Core: need to go, bye all
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Qt :)
Maxine Walden: bye Qt
arabella Ella: bye Qt
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Qt
Maxine Walden: I am wondering whether one very important role for this meeting would be as a place to perhaps rejuvinate trust and sharing among the guardian group
Adams Rubble: there is a comfort level and then there is encouragement too
Eos Amaterasu regretfully needs to leave (where will the log be?)
arabella Ella: excellent idea Maxine
Eliza Madrigal: I really like that term 'renew'... something we have to do in many areas of life, renew our commitments and vision, etc
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Eos :)
Pema Pera: together with all the other logs, Eos
arabella Ella: bye Eos
Eos Amaterasu: bye
Pema Pera: there will be five today instead of four
Pila Mulligan: the big steps in personal growth are easier with personal help, that is what I meant by the limit of the venue
Eliza Madrigal: yes, though thanks to SL I am able to be here fevery and shivering today... so there are vast benefits too :)
Adams Rubble: I agree with the personal, not sure the venue limits that Pila
Pila Mulligan: in person the need for help can be recognized by the group, here it is more likely to need to be expressed by the person in need
Gaya Ethaniel: In my case, I'm adjusting as my commitment in RL/SL changes. And unfortunately I have less time to attend PaB as a result. So for me, this weekly guardian meeting would be very helpful incl. points Maxine made.
arabella Ella: this meeting could involve perhaps some form of peer support
Gaya Ethaniel: I sometimes find it hard to keep in touch with my freinds from PaB.
Eliza Madrigal: yes....encouragement
arabella Ella: and some form of mentoring too perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: I liked your email, btw, Gaya.... couldn't quite wrap my words well enough to respond but loved hearing from others
Bertram Jacobus: to me, the virtuality isn´t limiting in the end : i can meet people everywhere, meet many in rl too if i find that important etc. every surrounding can be limitating in my opinion, but not necessairy ...
arabella Ella: really wish you a speedy recovery Maxine!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Eliza. I'm hoping to hear more from the rest :)
Maxine Walden: I think it is Eliza who is ill...
SophiaSharon Larnia: me as well Gaya
arabella Ella: ooops ... Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: yes thanks... no worries :) I only mention it to highlight Sl's benefits :)
Maxine Walden: and I was also wishing to send her 'get well soon' thoughts
arabella Ella: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I think the diversity and inclusiveness of PaB is one of the most important and encouraging aspect of PaB but it also means there are so much we can delve into.
Gaya Ethaniel: And we are all trying to keep the continuity/connection between the participants with changing life circumstances ... it's a challenge at least for me.
Pema Pera: Adams, would you like to say a bit more about what you would like to share?
arabella Ella: it certainly is for many of us Gaya
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: There isn't really time but my unconscious seems to be leading me into Tibetan symbolism
Adams Rubble: and I have begun to see the symbolic aspect of my avatars
Pila Mulligan: :)
Adams Rubble: I have been livving the Trantra way a bit while following the Sutra Way
Adams Rubble: all the time without knowing it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: celebrating more than trying to improve?
genesis Zhangsun: Excuse me but I have to take off
arabella Ella: bye Gen
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye genesis :)
Pema Pera: bye Gen
Maxine Walden: bye gen
genesis Zhangsun: I am very much looking forward to these meetings :)
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen
Adams Rubble: Pema?
genesis Zhangsun: glad to have them again, and what a beautiful space again Storm
Storm Nordwind smiles
Adams Rubble: I agree with Gen wholeheartedly :)
Pema Pera: I'm trying to guess what you meant with sutra vs. tantra, can you say a bit more, Adams?
Widget Whiteberry: Adams, I would love* to hear more about that
arabella Ella: and it is really such a lovely place
Adams Rubble: I think self improvement has been at the center of my quest or whatever it is
Adams Rubble: I am ignorant of many things
Adams Rubble: and I think I have been doing some things inadvertantly
Pila Mulligan: that usually happens
SophiaSharon Larnia: you're not the only one :)
Adams Rubble: fallen into a path I did not know was there?
Adams Rubble: Some definitions have appeared to me lately
Adams Rubble: I learned there is a Sutra Way and a Tantra Way :)
Adams Rubble: and a PaB way of course :)
Widget Whiteberry: I think of my av as part psychological project and part creative expression. even though I understand how everything we create here has a metaphorical aspect, the idea of symbolism hadn't occured to me.
Adams Rubble: They all contribute something
arabella Ella: would love to stay on but RL calls ... bye all
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye arabella :)
Maxine Walden: bye ara
Widget Whiteberry: can you say something about the symbolism of your av?
Pema Pera: bye Ara!
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ara
Adams Rubble: My avatar has been identifying itself with Tara
Pila Mulligan: nice
Pila Mulligan: dance avi dance
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Bertram Jacobus: i knew a wonderful vajrayogini ava here ...
Widget Whiteberry murmers 'high concept'
Gaya Ethaniel is lost a bit ... due to not knowing much about Tibetan Buddhism. Will listen in ...
Eliza Madrigal: Adams, stepping out and sharing from that personal place may be part of the feeling of something missing... a hesitancy to do what like you've done today.
Pila Mulligan: especially at PaB, hesitant -- it is too deep
Adams Rubble: It frightened me at first
Widget Whiteberry: the association was frighttening?
Pila Mulligan: it is very important Adams, it is very improtant for anyne anywhere
Eliza Madrigal: Well when we all don't understand all the details of what another is experiencing... it is inspiring
Eliza Madrigal: nonetheless
Adams Rubble: PaB tells me I can explore it and appreciate it
Pila Mulligan: the open door also means there is a constant potential for newness -- both favorable and frictional
Pila Mulligan: this deep stuff can be swept aside then
Adams Rubble: Yes
Pila Mulligan: so the sangha aspect needs a place, maybe here
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: I am not very knowledgeable about the bTantra Way
Adams Rubble: yes Pila
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye for now everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Yakuzza :)
Adams Rubble: the community of PaB
Eliza Madrigal: yes relunctantly I have to go too... Bye everyone and thank you
Pila Mulligan: be well ELiza
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Eliza :)
Storm Nordwind waves
Maxine Walden: bye Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: being, the sharing, and the communtiy
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry but I must attend RL. Have a good day. Adams please feel free to email the group about it.
Scathach Rhiadra: bye all, Namasté:)
Adams Rubble: It is interesting to me that the virtual world has allowed me to do something that is part of a tradition I do not know very well
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye :)
Pema Pera: Bye Gaya!
Maxine Walden: For this meeting to be a secure place, it may be useful to have secure boundaries, such as time. I would hope to hear more from Adams but i suppose we all would hope to.
Widget Whiteberry nods
Pila Mulligan: these big personal emergence situations need to be supported -- and I'm sure yours is not the only one Adams
Pema Pera: one option would be to have SL retreats -- beyond just a single hour
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: like an afternoon, or even a day or a weekend
Maxine Walden: yes, a good idea, Pema
Widget Whiteberry: when I speak of things so immediate and personal, I've done it 1:1
SophiaSharon Larnia: very nice idea
Widget Whiteberry: or at most 1:2
Pila Mulligan: :)
Widget Whiteberry: the people I speak to are witnesses and guides
Widget Whiteberry: guardians, perhaps
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: a group of gaurdians
Widget Whiteberry: and they anchor me in my relating of my experience
Pema Pera: Widget, we had our first RL PaB retreat, six weeks or so ago, and there we had 1:11 conversations of this type regularly -- to what extent we can do that in SL is an open question
Widget Whiteberry: so I wonder if something as deeply felt as Adams alludes to
Widget Whiteberry: ah, well then, perhaps that is possible
Pema Pera: but we had three full days, without any other distraction
Pema Pera: in a lovely setting, away from it all
Widget Whiteberry: a base of contact?
Widget Whiteberry: and did you all have SL experience with each other?
Adams Rubble notes this is a lovely setting :)
Pema Pera: oh yes, Widget, that was key
Widget Whiteberry nods
Pema Pera: wouldn't have worked otherwise
Maxine Walden: yes, this could be a retreat place, Adams
Widget Whiteberry: I can see that PaB works best when it is a primary committment
Widget Whiteberry: for many of its members
Pema Pera: Adams, would you like us to do a trial short retreat here, some day?
Adams Rubble: It like the idea of making retreats possible in SL..wairting to see how it goes in Princeton :)
Adams Rubble: waiting
Pema Pera: interesting point, Widget; certainly anything works best when you make it a primary commitment, but I do think that PaB also can function as a complement to other practices
Adams Rubble: On the other hand I may feel it nis easier to share as Adams Rubble :)
Widget Whiteberry nods thoughtfully
SophiaSharon Larnia nods
Pema Pera: in fact, during the RL retreat, what was so touching was that each of us brought in their own practice tradition experiences of a life time . . . .
Widget Whiteberry: there are certainly thiings I allow Widget that I do not allow her driver
Pema Pera: yes, Adams, Princeton will be interesting in that respect
Adams Rubble nods
Maxine Walden: looking forward to Princeton as well, Adams
Adams Rubble notes Maxine's noticing of the time
Pema Pera: I think the commitment to PaB is mostly a commitment to openness and being non-judgmental, and within that commitment to then share your own practice approach
Pema Pera: for one thing, PaB almost has no "content" to speak of :-)
Adams Rubble: I have been so fortunate to receive so much help from PaB guardians
Widget Whiteberry: patience and persistence, openess and ... openness
Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
Pema Pera: :)
Widget Whiteberry: I have somewhere I need to be
Widget Whiteberry: this has been a pleasure for me, thank you all
Pema Pera: same here, Widget!
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Widget
Pema Pera: shall we wrap up for today?
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Maxine Walden: I need to go as well
Pema Pera: I'll post the chat log on the wiki
SophiaSharon Larnia: I need to log off also, bye for now :)
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
Maxine Walden: bye all
Pila Mulligan: on a light note, this is completely a digression, can you imagine the Red Army Choir singing 'Sweet Home Alabama' -- really? -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lNFRLrP014
Adams Rubble: hehe
Pema Pera: not Georgia?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Maxine Walden: wow, thanks Pila
Pila Mulligan: bye for now
Pila Mulligan: and this is a really niceplace Storm
Storm Nordwind smiles and bows
Adams Rubble: :)