2009.10.22 19:00 - Be Here Now

The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Paradise Tennant.

Paradise Tennant: hiya pila gtsy :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise, how are you?
Paradise Tennant: very well thanks :)
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: today a carpenter came and puttered around, so it was not as much of a work day for me -- getting little finishing things taken care of
Paradise Tennant: nice
Pila Mulligan: it was fun
Paradise Tennant: i bet
Paradise Tennant: always nice to get the details done and dusted :)
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Paradise Tennant: must be a beautiful place to live .. when there is no vog.. love the word will come in very handy in scrabble :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, v on a tripple letter scor
Paradise Tennant: :) grins
Paradise Tennant: loves to win at scrabble
Paradise Tennant: you mentioned you had read up on hinduism
Pila Mulligan: yes, in the past mostly
Pila Mulligan: and then I re-read wiki's version recently
Pila Mulligan: about the upcoming theme session
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
Pila Mulligan: that wiki article then links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...dvaita_Vedanta
Paradise Tennant: there is a very rich cultural heritage of indian gurus
Pila Mulligan: ... it was interesting to see the number of familiar names on the list of teachers of Advaita Vedanta
Pila Mulligan: yes it is quite a tradition
Pila Mulligan: I had not connected some of those familiar names with each other before
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pila Mulligan: for exmaple, Sri Aurobindo Gose and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
Paradise Tennant: non duality from a sllightly different tack ?
Pila Mulligan: well, part of the same fmaily tree, for sure
Pila Mulligan: but they all take distinct paths from the trunk of the tree
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pila Mulligan: the first wiki says ""Advaita" refers to the identity of the Self (Atman) and the Whole (Brahman)"
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: Atman and Brahman are big terms in Hinduism :0
Paradise Tennant: i am sure it you laid them all out .. they would form a circle .. combining back into each other
Pila Mulligan: well, the atman question seems to be one of those thoughts that arises all over the place
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pila Mulligan: the school that is the discssion topic says, according to wiki:'Brahman is the only truth, the world is illusion, and there is ultimately no difference between Brahman and individual self'
Pila Mulligan: self being atman
Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman
Pila Mulligan: a personal self or soul
Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta
Pila Mulligan: and, of course, there are at least two sides the question of whether there is an atman distinct from brahman
Paradise Tennant: hmmm
Paradise Tennant: so brahman is ...
Paradise Tennant: reality
Paradise Tennant: enlightenment
Paradise Tennant: ?
Pila Mulligan: rl phone call ...
Paradise Tennant: okies
Paradise Tennant: brb
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: an old freind with a law question :)
Paradise Tennant: the law is always about questions
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: uncertainty for sure
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pila Mulligan: my first take on atman and brahman was that atman was the personal soul and brahman was everyhting else
Pila Mulligan: kind of simplified -- mybe too much
Pila Mulligan: but they were distinct n the sense of self and environment being distinct
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass's book Be Here Now, a hippies guide to the unviverse, refers to Atman as inidivualize Brahman
Paradise Tennant: I know so llittle about it
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pila Mulligan: individualized*
Paradise Tennant: blue must have read the book ..he is licking my toes .. telling me the same thing :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: the book has a blue cover
Paradise Tennant: will put it on my list
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pila Mulligan: it is not an ordinary book ;)
Paradise Tennant: when you use to study with ram dass what was that like ?
Pila Mulligan: well, it was in the 1970's
Pila Mulligan: first
Pila Mulligan: and there were lots of peace and love ideas around
Pila Mulligan: flower children and acid
Pila Mulligan: rock and roll
Pila Mulligan: the REvolution
Pila Mulligan: it was quite different in that respect :)
Paradise Tennant: happily the rock and roll survived but the acid didn't ..you do not hear about it much
Pila Mulligan: it was a big deal then
Paradise Tennant: did you try it
Pila Mulligan: and that was where Ram Dass came from -- he was a protege of Timothy Leary at Harvard before he went to Inida
Pila Mulligan: yes, I did
Pila Mulligan: it was okay for me, but not as good as meditation
Paradise Tennant: ;)
Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass was once Dr. Richard Alpert
Pila Mulligan: Harvard professor
Paradise Tennant: he really changed :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, he did
Paradise Tennant: what did he teach
Pila Mulligan: psychology
Pila Mulligan: Alpert accepted a permanent position at Harvard, where he worked with the Social Relations Department, the Psychology Department, the Graduate School of Education, and the Health Service, where he was a therapist
Pila Mulligan: frm wiki
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pila Mulligan: n 1967 Alpert traveled to India, where he met the American spiritual seeker Bhagavan Das. As he guided Alpert barefoot from temple to temple, Bhagavan Das began teaching him basic mantras and asanas, as well as how to work with beads. After a few months, Bhagavan Das led Alpert to his guru, Neem Karoli Baba
Paradise Tennant: baba is another great word love the sound of it
Pila Mulligan: it essentially means father
Pila Mulligan: like papa
Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass was instructed to receive teaching from Hari Dass Baba, who taught in silence using only a chalkboard. While in India, Ram Dass also corresponded with Meher Baba; however, he remained primarily focused on the teaching of Hari Dass Baba. Among other things, Hari Dass Baba trained Ram Dass in raja yoga and ahimsa. It was these life-changing experiences in India that inspired Ram Dass to write the contemporary spiritual classic, Be Here Now, in which he teaches that everyone is a manifestation of God and that every moment is of infinite significance.
Paradise Tennant: what is ahimsa
Pila Mulligan: but he combines all his stuff -- psychology, psychotropics and Hinduism, in the book
Pila Mulligan: non-violence, simply
Paradise Tennant: hard to grasp that every moment is of infinite significance
Pila Mulligan: more tehcnically it means not seeking advantage
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: Be Here Now probably saved the lives of countless numbers of hippies on the path to drug hell
Pila Mulligan: hippies
Pila Mulligan: oops, numbers*
Paradise Tennant: hmm yes addiction .. is tragic
Paradise Tennant: hard to watch
Pila Mulligan: and so the book is like a cartoon in some ways
Pila Mulligan: big drawings and type that changes sizes
Pila Mulligan: but it got people's attneiton
Pila Mulligan: and was informative
Pila Mulligan: he used the atman brahmin idea to try to help people understand psychedllic expereinces
Pila Mulligan: in the sense that you could loose yourself on either side of the distinction between self and enviuronment
Paradise Tennant: hmm interesting way to phrase it :)
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: so he was not parsing the ideas as finely as Hindus or Buddhsits may in treatises
Paradise Tennant: nice thing about it .. is that it sounds like he really is living his life ..is he still alive ?
Pila Mulligan: yes, he live son Maui now
Pila Mulligan: I used to go to his house for satsang before moving from there in 2005
Paradise Tennant: with the effects of a stroke
Pila Mulligan: yes
Paradise Tennant: if I recall
Pila Mulligan: but he is recovering pretty well
Pila Mulligan: http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/neem...sd-alpert.html
Pila Mulligan: here is a telling story about his guru and how Richard Alpert got left behind
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: kk reading
doug Sosa: hi, just back from stanford.
Pila Mulligan: hi Doug
Pila Mulligan: welcomeback
doug Sosa: :)
Pila Mulligan: we've been chatting about Ram Dass (ne Richard Alpert)
Paradise Tennant: hiya doug
doug Sosa: yep, i knew him a bit in the late 70's. good person.
doug Sosa: good=
Paradise Tennant: is awed
Paradise Tennant: lol
Paradise Tennant: sitting with two people who know ram dass :)) lol
Pila Mulligan: Paradise was intereste din readnig Be Here Now and I was explaining how it is ont an ordinary book
doug Sosa: he was serious. i first met him at an omega conferene but later at a small workshop with a group of fairly high managers, in new york as i recall.
Pila Mulligan: he is an excellent teacher
Paradise Tennant: yes
doug Sosa: he worked hard to slow things down.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: to be here now
Pila Mulligan: I mentioned to Paradise his book and teahcings probably helped countless shippies keep from straying too far into drug abuse
doug Sosa: I had a face to face meeting with ten grad students today whom i had not met. very hard to slow that down, they are so used to fast paced.
Pila Mulligan: will they work with your project?
doug Sosa: love it, shippies!
Pila Mulligan: sustainability?
doug Sosa: yes, from their own points of view.
Pila Mulligan: sounds like a helpful crew
doug Sosa: They are still pretty ernest and want solutions so suffering doesn't have to happen, but when we talked about the parallels with heath care, banking and climate they were really interested.
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: their generation needs to save the world
Pila Mulligan: seriously
doug Sosa: they think in terms of solving problems, not solving the world. in a way the project mentality keeps them from being systems thinkers.
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, and solving problems will hopefully help save the world
doug Sosa: they still count of the leadership being able to get it. There s quite a bit of activity from china and the idea that china
doug Sosa: will lead the world in climate mitigating tech has got the white house somehwta engaged in catchup.
Pila Mulligan: hmm, could that be undue optimism?
doug Sosa: yes.
Pila Mulligan: China will lead the world in climate mitigating tech
doug Sosa: but no more than your "hopefully help save the world at 20:11.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: well, I hope it works :)
doug Sosa: actually who knows. just good to keep working.
--BELL--
doug Sosa: with a kind of 9 sec every now and then.
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: availability and sustainability of potable (or even clean) water is a big challenge already in many places -- those are the kinds of problems i think of in terms of saving the world
doug Sosa: actually the 9 sec is very helpful, keeps me from falling into any one perspective.
doug Sosa: water and food. if there is water and food, people can live there. it is key to the future.
doug Sosa: But at another leel, we are almost without a culture, without a civilization, nd anarchy is likely.
doug Sosa: and it isn't clear if that helps or hurts.
Pila Mulligan: do you meditate much Doug, as a formal sitting practice? (pardon me if we have talked about this before and I forgot) ... i ask because Paradise likes to add a 5 or 10 minute meditation to the end of her PaB sessiosn
Paradise Tennant: yes please
doug Sosa: I would be delighted if we did that.
Paradise Tennant: I alwasy sleep really well after I meditate with pila :)
Pila Mulligan: 5, 10 ...? how many minutes?
Paradise Tennant: say 10 ?
Paradise Tennant: or five
doug Sosa: I love these late night sessions.
Pila Mulligan: ok
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: ten is ok. just tell us.
Pila Mulligan: if we start now we will end at the next 90 second pause, at 8:30 SLT
doug Sosa: For me on formal med, i have but i am too much of a daoist.
Paradise Tennant: :)
doug Sosa: ok.
Pila Mulligan: so we being at a gong
Pila Mulligan: *gong*
--BELL--
doug Sosa: ah :)
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: thanks pila ..doug
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: thanks indeed
doug Sosa: adiant. yes.
doug Sosa: radiant
Paradise Tennant: always feel a tiny bit bigger :) more spacious inside :) lovely feeling
Pila Mulligan: restful
doug Sosa: yes.
doug Sosa: well, i need to be back to writing and such.. I'm ready.
Paradise Tennant: sighs .. I have to scoot.. blue is coming to work ..with me tomorrow .. so he needs a bath .. and time is marching on .. looking down at the unsuspecting hound :)
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you doug, have a good evening
Paradise Tennant: have a great night you two
Pila Mulligan: have fun Paradise, bye for now
doug Sosa: Pila, one possibility for a trip would be with my partner on saturday in eight days.
Paradise Tennant: aloho'oe
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
Pila Mulligan: that would be nice
doug Sosa: would that work? We ar looking at my coming furing the week but want to chose best option for all of us.
Pila Mulligan: my schedule is pretty open
doug Sosa: she has several presentations but finished i think thursday evening.
Pila Mulligan: the guest room has a queen size bed
Pila Mulligan: and its own bathroom
doug Sosa: I'll email you about what day during the week might work.
Pila Mulligan: any time would be fine
doug Sosa: we are easy. ..
Pila Mulligan: one bit of advice
doug Sosa: yes..?
Pila Mulligan: I'm vegetarian, nondrinker, no TV
Pila Mulligan: so it is just not your ordinary house with beer and tv shows
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: that is just fine. we have no tv, penny does like but has no need for wine, and we have vegetarian children.. :)
Pila Mulligan: cool
Pila Mulligan: most people like it for a while
Pila Mulligan: some miss their wine :)
doug Sosa: we are fine. its the cigars (ha).
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: oh, that too :)
doug Sosa: can we eat local lizards auteed i pinneable?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: there are acouple of nice restaURANTS HEREABOUTS
doug Sosa: i knew i was joking, couldn't spell one of them words correct.
Pila Mulligan: pARDON THE CAPS
Pila Mulligan: caps*
doug Sosa: Hope it works. let you know.
Pila Mulligan: me too
doug Sosa: gotta go. why is the sun coming up? Where we here that long?
Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass needs to slow it down
doug Sosa: the great egyptian sun god ram, dass is who we need.
doug Sosa: Bye, night..
Pila Mulligan: bye for now
doug Sosa: uh oh.
Pila Mulligan: hi Fox
Fox Monacular: :)
Pila Mulligan: a new look
Fox Monacular: yeah... I'm into steampunk these days:)
doug Sosa: foxy fox!
Fox Monacular: both of you look like clouds to me though
Pila Mulligan: looks like alittle Amish as well
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: don't tell the elders about my baby
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: a liitle but more just cute.
doug Sosa: elegantly cute.
Fox Monacular: I'm blushing
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: fox we were both needing to go. blushing looks good on you too.
Pila Mulligan: but I can stay for a bit if you like Fox
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: after session session
Pila Mulligan: yep
doug Sosa: sorry to leave, i do like these late sessions. very prescious, thanks to you, paradise, eos.
Pila Mulligan: have a nice eveining Doug
Fox Monacular: take care Doug
doug Sosa: :)
Pila Mulligan: how are you Fox?
Fox Monacular: everybody's asleep!
Fox Monacular: rare moments:)
Pila Mulligan: :0
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: great! ok, so I'll have to log out and log in with that hippo program
Fox Monacular: so I'll see you in 2 min there?
Pila Mulligan: ok, see you there
Fox Monacular: :)