2009.10.25 08:00 - Third Guardian Meeting

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    In this guardian session, we discussed the practice focus and openness of PlayasBeing sessions in general, after getting through a bit of distraction regarding my clothing. I thought to leave some of that out of the log, but doing so might leave a string or two unexplained. :)


    The 11 Guardians present were Pema, Eos, Gaya, Adams, Riddle, Storm, Genesis, Maxine, Doug, Eliza, and Lia


    Pema Pera: hi Everybody!
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not allowed to sit. Must be the hat
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema and Doug :)
    doug Sosa: :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Storm :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi Gaya, Eos. Pema, Abagail, doug, Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi guys
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello doug, gen, pema and Storm :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya, Riddle, Eos, Pema, Doug, Adams, Maxine, and Storm, and Gen
    Adams Rubble: Hello gen :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Adams :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Eliza and Gaya
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi everyone!
    Riddle Sideways: yes gen that is easier
    genesis Zhangsun: I love your outfit Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :) Eos says I'm gift wrapped. Hehe
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: lovely thought, Eliza
    doug Sosa: whose birthday :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: =P~


    Storm Nordwind: Some lucky recipient of the gift!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Its a costume Eliza "Dolittle"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: or Elvira Madigan
    Riddle Sideways: hmmm, need holloween costume
    Maxine Walden: wonderful associations... I had an ante-bellum (pre-American Civil War) southern costume in mind
    Maxine Walden: uh, oh, said the wrong thing, me fears
    Eliza Madrigal: Not at all, Maxine.
    Eliza Madrigal fears her hat is a distraction
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Pema Pera is thinking about a Dutch pre-revolution pre-British New Amsterdam costume :)
    Riddle Sideways asks, are costumes counted in prim counts
    Gaya Ethaniel practices the hat as as distraction or not :P
    Storm Nordwind: No they are not Riddle
    doug Sosa: 9 sec is sort oflike unwrapping..
    Storm Nordwind: But they can make it slower for some people's graphics cards
    genesis Zhangsun: how so Doug?
    Eos Amaterasu: or noticing the wrapping
    Adams Rubble: :)
    doug Sosa: well dropping assuptions, droping the clothes we conceptually put on objects and experiences. the 9 sec is taking those off, seeing what reakains.
    doug Sosa: remains
    Eos Amaterasu: nakedness?
    doug Sosa: another layer, that nakedness.
    doug Sosa: nakedness is only skin deep :)

    :) Here is where the practical session seems to start... 

    Pema Pera: shall we talk about the way the PaB sessions are going, whether we are happy with that, and whether there is something we could improve?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Adams Rubble: I very much appreciate the support I receive in PaB
    Pema Pera: As we have discussed here earlier, several guardians have expressed the sense that there could be more direct practice related and/or real life experience discussions and less more abstract, more opinion type discussions
    Pema Pera: and from my own observations
    Pema Pera: what I have seen in some sessions
    Pema Pera: is that sometimes one person, often not a guardian
    Pema Pera: comes up with a rather PaB unrelated topic
    Pema Pera: and then at least one guardian, out of politeness, responds
    Pema Pera: and before we know it twenty minutes go by in a direction that is not very interesting to many of us
    Pema Pera: so the question is: should we remain super polite, or is there a skillful way to focus more on practice and on actual RL experiences?
    doug Sosa: Tome there are no non pab topics, but any topic can be dealt with in a boring nonpab way. The question is not content but reflectie intent.
    doug Sosa: reflective=
    Gaya Ethaniel: I learnt a lesson about 'being polite' ... how that can be problematic. So yes, I agree that sometimes it needs a skillful direction. I own up that I am not good that this.
    Maxine Walden: maybe Doug's thought, reflective intent can be one way the guardian may intervene, bringing the atmosphere of reflection into the session
    doug Sosa: Yes, recall that i tried that with brining unwrapping to what happens in the 9 sec.

    What can only be found at PaB...

    Storm Nordwind: That's an interesting position doug. And the comment by Maxine. Though I wonder if the reflective intent could be found in very many groups, whereas points about PaB practice can really only be found here - so it is a matter of what do we decide to best use the time for.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Though sometimes it feels like a put off when done in superficial/drone way.
    Eliza Madrigal: In a larger session, sometimes it is easier for there to be an obvious PaB focus, but one on one yes...to Gaya's point
    doug Sosa: to me the issue is letting there be random thoughts but takingthem as experience to reflect on, with reference to PaB and the 9 sec.
    Eos Amaterasu: It can vary: Stevenai and I had a one on one that experimented with coming back explicitly to the 90 secs
    Eos Amaterasu: Mabye the 90 secs can be a more prominent gap, both to prepare to jump into and then to reflect on
    Eliza Madrigal: yes and of course it seems a skill, too, one I'm sure I can improve on personally. There also seems just distinct energy to each session at times
    Maxine Walden: We seem to be hearing a spectrum of approaches in this conversation, with the center of gravity for me being a more concerted effort to focus on PaB issues
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, agree Eos
    doug Sosa: Remember in the olden days howwe would come to a session to talk about what had happened during the previoushours when we had practiced the 9 sec. I liked that.
    Riddle Sideways: yes Doug, with the words "Play" and "Being", everything becomes PaB reflective
    Gaya Ethaniel: Anything can be potentially PaB issues though ... it's perhaps to do with how the topics are discussed ... applied during the sessions.
    Eos Amaterasu: Sometimes the group can hold a space where someone can share experience
    Adams Rubble: We could just decide it is the olden days and act as it is :)
    Eos Amaterasu: A few nights ago Fox shared some experiences she's been going through, with dreaming, dying
    Eos Amaterasu: profound for her
    Adams Rubble: as if it is
    Eos Amaterasu: it opened a kind of almost tangible space
    Maxine Walden: must have been moving, Eos, and how nice the space of the session may have allowed that sharing
    Eos Amaterasu: nowhere to go with it, but just witnessing
    doug Sosa: And profound for the group because our experience of her experience also had a place. really good.
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, the group can create trust
    doug Sosa: Our openness, responsiveness, drew from her a great unfolding.
    Eliza Madrigal: So, that *is* PaB practice, as it is... as it came about that way
    Eliza Madrigal: ?
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Riddle Sideways: and in the sessions there are those thoughtful silences, that do not read well in the chat logs
    Pema Pera: one element in PaB is the play of PaB, the other element is the B, Being, what is -- going from what we have to what we are; would it make sense to ask that question more often, more explicitly?
    Maxine Walden: right, Riddle, not all the dimensions can be represented in the log
    Eliza Madrigal nods... unwrapping often gets to that silence/rest
    Riddle Sideways: yes Pema, that is not oft asked of late
    Eos Amaterasu: Suggesting a wrapping can open an entrance to the space
    doug Sosa: what seems important often in the 9 sec is the contrast between the 9 and the non 9, and the experience of crossing the boundary.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I feel like things/concepts are added onto our discussion as it goes along ... I'm losing a bit here.
    doug Sosa: so any topic lends itself to that, such as moving into thinkingabout "birthday dress" and then out of that zone. Lots of experience there.
    Eliza Madrigal: I've often read logs and noticed the natural way one has of opening PaB for someone....
    doug Sosa: The PaB approach i think is to have the experience, pay attention, and drop the categories/concepts.
    Pema Pera: how?
    Pema Pera: I mean how to encourage that in chat?
    Eliza Madrigal: and then amidst a moment felt contrived to do the same...maybe just practice
    Eliza Madrigal: just feeling through the contrived until it becomes more natural
    Eliza Madrigal: That's what I am asking too
    Pema Pera is delighted hearing so many wonderful examples

    Guidelines that give guidance to authenticity...

    Pema Pera is wondering whether we can formulate some guide lines that may trigger more of those
    Maxine Walden: guidelines that do not foster a kind of 'rule' but give guidance to authenticity
    Eliza Madrigal nods nods
    doug Sosa: "as we think about X, what is our experience if we drop concepts as much as possible?"
    Eos Amaterasu: One guideline might be to suggest an approach to "the next 90 secs", in a sentence or phrase (like APA phrase)
    doug Sosa: (x is some topic soeone has broughtup, often a non-regular).
    Eos Amaterasu: and then discuss
    Adams Rubble: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information/Guardian_Tips_for_Hosting_Meetings
    Maxine Walden: agree, Eos, that offers a good opportunity during the session
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like that idea doug.
    Storm Nordwind regrets he will have to slip away to catch the airplane back from Princeton now.
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Storm. Happy travels!
    Adams Rubble: bye Storm
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Storm :)
    Maxine Walden: fly safely, Storm
    Storm Nordwind is Offline
    Pema Pera: Bye Storm in RL/SL :-)
    doug Sosa: Expressing it that way reminds the better practitioners what we are all there for., not just the personwho brought up X.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Sharing two ways not one direction ...
    doug Sosa: But importn to not be heavy handed, traffic cop sort of way.
    Eos Amaterasu: doug I see that as a pattern that the sessions can create, so it's not just a one-of re "looking at X from suspension", but part of the overall way of approaching X and anything
    doug Sosa: yep. good.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I miss a moment when introducing PaB...when asking whether someone will be recorded, I often leave it at that for a whle, mostly because they poof often and it feels tiring :)
    Eliza Madrigal: But can prob extend that a little... patience :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it may re-new the conversation in some cases
    Maxine Walden: Yes, there is a bit of strain for the goc to monitor newbies and guide the conversation at the same time, at least for me

    Starting from scratch...

    Pema Pera: I often enjoy summarizing PaB to newbies
    Pema Pera: it gives a chance to rethink from scratch what we are trying to do
    Maxine Walden: maybe can ask for help from another guardian to ease things, to allow focus on one task
    Eliza Madrigal nods.. it is helpful for everyone
    Pema Pera: and their questions are sometimes very interesting, unexpected
    Maxine Walden: yes, Pema it is an opportunity
    Riddle Sideways: then there are the non-newbies that I just don't know or they changed their names which becomes awkward
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sometime, I began to think if 1 stays on and participate out of 100, that's a success for me. :)
    Riddle Sideways: I have introduced PaB to Adams several times :)
    Maxine Walden: Riddle, I experience that too, folks whose status I do not know re familiarity with PaB
    Pema Pera: hehehe, Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: :) giggles at Riddle
    Adams Rubble: now Riddle!!!
    Pema Pera: did he re-introduce back?
    Riddle Sideways: hehe
    Pema Pera: or she, depending on the Adams in question?
    Gaya Ethaniel: 0987654-
    Gaya Ethaniel bows with respect.
    Eos Amaterasu: Adams is desperate for newbie-mind :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... sorry about that
    doug Sosa: Mostnewbies leave when the discussion is unfocused un PaB. If it is good PaB they get hooked.
    doug Sosa: (slightly idealised}
    Riddle Sideways: then again, some newbies leave when the chat is heavy
    Riddle Sideways: hard to generalize
    Adams Rubble: yes, it does not seem possible to give an even experience to newbies, many of whom are just passing through
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well people change no? Even those we think we know, incl myself ... I often have to look into how I feel about the group, PaB and see why etc.
    doug Sosa: It would be interesting to see , over time, who came, and who is no longer with us.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's not all about getting bigger ... more successful ... etc at least for me.
    Adams Rubble: I always give newbies a notecard which makes up some for uneven introductions
    Eliza Madrigal nods... I like this idea of introducing/refocusing the PaB topic itself, being a way to 'freshen up' our view
    Eliza Madrigal: within the conversation, and yes I give a notecard also
    Pema Pera: I agree, Gaya
    Pema Pera: growing is fine if it is natural, but not a specific objective
    Pema Pera: rather if we make PaB an even more fun and interesting community, we don't have to worry about the effects on size

    Balance, trust, and nurturing the current community...

    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not criticising ... it's a difficult balance and I'm trying to learn to better how I deal with the complexity ...
    genesis Zhangsun: but of course as it grows it is important to consider how to nurture the current community
    Maxine Walden: yes, gen, do you have some thoughts about that ?
    genesis Zhangsun: while I enjoy the openess of the meetings it also does have an effect on trust in the group
    genesis Zhangsun: does anyone else feel that?
    Maxine Walden: waiting to see more what you meant (a bit more detail) re your last point
    genesis Zhangsun: well within a group of people you interact with often it is easier to share deeper more profound personal things about your life
    genesis Zhangsun: in relation to the practice
    Maxine Walden: yes, think I know what you mean and agree, gen
    Maxine Walden: doug, are you using voice right now?
    Maxine Walden: Doug, it might be less distracting if you could turn off your voice
    genesis Zhangsun: doug your voice is one
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: *on
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    doug Sosa: got it
    Pema Pera: (still on Doug)
    doug Sosa: i think.
    Pema Pera: click "talk" in the lower right corner
    Eos Amaterasu: How trusted a container the circle is varies, a bit randomly depending on who's there
    Maxine Walden: Gen, guess there is a balance re being open to newbies, and having that measure of trust and deepening with familiar older friends and colleagues
    Eos Amaterasu: When Fox spoke the other night it just worked, just enough
    Lia Rikugun: hello
    Riddle Sideways: hi Lia
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Lia
    Pema Pera: hi Lia!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Lia
    Eos Amaterasu: But it easily could not have
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Lia!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lia :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Fox even being relatively new, I find it easy to relate to her. So yes it depends.
    Lia Rikugun: (time shift in germany, i got confused! sorry i am late)
    Pema Pera: daylight savings time must have stopped in Europe :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Lia :)
    Maxine Walden: How so, Eos, 'easily not have'...?
    Lia Rikugun: are you on voice?
    Maxine Walden: no text, Lia
    Pema Pera: (no text, I will post the chat log, Lia, for today)
    Lia Rikugun: thanks
    Eos Amaterasu: I th ink Fox (she's an example, coudl be someone else), feels (or not) that the current group can be trusted
    Maxine Walden: ah, yes
    Eos Amaterasu: (must go...)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eos :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Eos :)
    Lia Rikugun: bye eos
    Adams Rubble: bye Eios
    Pema Pera: what a wonderful exchange of reports and insights, that you all very much!
    Pema Pera: bye Eos
    Maxine Walden: yes, I have to go as well
    Pema Pera: Shall we wrap up?
    Maxine Walden: good session, I think
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine, and everyone. Thank you very much
    doug Sosa: me too bye.
    Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye everyone :)
    Riddle Sideways: thank you all
    genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!

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