2009.10.31 01:00 - Practice

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

This was a nice session where we discussed different ways of practice, for the most part...

I was joined by Zon, a new avatar who had visited PaB before, maybe in his old avatar:)....

Zon Quar: hi
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello
Zon Quar: rather quiet
Scathach Rhiadra: have you been here before, may i ask?
Zon Quar: yup
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, ok
Zon Quar: is it normally this quet at this time ?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes it is usually quiet at this time
Zon Quar: lol
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zon Quar: u read my thoghts
Zon Quar: u buudhist Scath ?
Scathach Rhiadra: late night Fri/ early morning Sat for the Americans & Europeans respectively
Scathach Rhiadra: yes I am, but this place is not Buddhist
Zon Quar: nods, for all interested ..
Scathach Rhiadra: yes
Zon Quar: is there a board or something where u could see all teh activities going on here and their schedule ?
Scathach Rhiadra: for just here, or SL in general?
Zon Quar: here
Zon Quar: ther is a Kira cafe..i know
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, the same board that is at Kira is here also, behind me somewhere
Zon Quar: yes. i know this place meets on regular hours
Zon Quar: how about cafe ?
Scathach Rhiadra: the workshops are usually on weekdays, from about 9am to 2 pm SLT, most at noon, or 2 pm
Zon Quar: every day ?
Scathach Rhiadra: are you in the Kira Cafe group?
Zon Quar: no
Scathach Rhiadra: because they publish a notice each week with the times of all workshops
Zon Quar: how can i join
Scathach Rhiadra: hold on, I will get a copy for you....
Zon Quar: r u in that group ?
--BELL--
Scathach Rhiadra: This Week with Kira - www.kira.org 24-31 Oct 2009 - all times SLT/PDT Sunday 7pm - Spirit of the Senses <-- note Monday 1pm - Science at Play Tuesday 6am - Kira Japan Evenings 2pm - Maxine's Dream Workshop Wednesday 6am - MODEST [StellaNova] 11am - Time Workshop 1:30pm - Philosophical Seminar Thursday 9am - KISS <--note time 2pm - Ways of Knowing Workshop Friday 8am - Virtual Institute of Phenomenology Saturday
Scathach Rhiadra: there it is, I think you have to go to the Cafe to join

Gaya joined us for a while and brought up the subject of an exchange between Pema and I during a session earlier in the week.....

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath and Zon :)
Zon Quar: ok, ty Scath:)
Zon Quar: hi gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm getting ready to go out but thought I drop by. How are you both?
Scathach Rhiadra: fine thanks, and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Not bad, can't complain :)
Zon Quar: fien, and u
Gaya Ethaniel: You are keeping your silence again Scath. You haven't replied to my email to you & Pema :P
Scathach Rhiadra: ? which one is that?
Gaya Ethaniel: Something about limited view in being stuck?
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, last weeks chat ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Shall I find the quote?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, please:)
Gaya Ethaniel: I'd like to hear more from you ... if ok.
Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: when you identify yourself with a limited body and mind, and are really convinced that that is what you really are, and then you go off trying to find some kind of enlightenment, or you try to help others in some way, you're likely to get stuck Pema Pera: and when you really believe that we are living in a linear past-present-future time, and that that is all there is, you get stuck too Scathach Rhiadra: but is that not assuming that people who may be already engaged in some practice are automatically stuck?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, well don't know if I can add any more...
Scathach Rhiadra: it just seemed to me to be assuming that any type of practice was automatically useless, but as you said, you have to start somewhere
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I've wondered about it since then ... maybe we assumed that Pema was making a generic comment rather than talking from his personal experiences?
Zon Quar: isnt it so..u have to note ur stuck..to get free from that stuckness
Gaya Ethaniel: Of course, saying that doesn't necessarily exclude the fact that all practices if done sincerely have merits. Maybe it's something most of us assume at PaB?
Scathach Rhiadra: and even if you are starting 'at the end' as PaB would have it, that is taking a pretty high-level view and working with it, not much different to starting at the beginning perhaps:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Zon, knowing that one's stuck is a good thing. I get stuck/unstuck ... some sense it's a learning process?
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... yes Scath you articulated what I was vaguely feeling ...
Zon Quar: u have to start where u r
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, exactly
Gaya Ethaniel: I think what Pema was trying to say is importance of being open to other possibility ... I think.
Gaya Ethaniel: As in 'not gluing the shirt'
Gaya Ethaniel: Like I asked for a reminder of the View to Stim ... you know what I mean?
Gaya Ethaniel looks around for Pema ... :P
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, also practice is personal, it can not be generalised really
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... I wished that Pema had a chance to expand that comment with personal experience/example.
Gaya Ethaniel: That would have made me more relevant here ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bertram :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertram:)
Bertram Jacobus: good morning all ... :-)
Zon Quar: everyone has his/hers own path and way that suits one best
Zon Quar: hi bert
Gaya Ethaniel: It's a sensitive subject ... commenting on practice whether PaB or no ... on general or specific person.
Scathach Rhiadra: yes Zon, and what is a sticking point or obstacle for one, may be liberating for another
Zon Quar: iv heard
Zon Quar: there ar about 100 ways to mediatet
--BELL--
Zon Quar: some suit some some others
Zon Quar: depending if u r emotiomally, intellectually or functionally inclined
Gaya Ethaniel nods. Indeed ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry for being rude but must run now :) Have a good weekend.
Gaya Ethaniel: Would I see you tomorrow at the guardian meeting Scath?
Bertram Jacobus: bye gaya. you too
Zon Quar: bye gaya
Scathach Rhiadra: you too Gaya, see you soon:)

Gaya leaves and Bertram joins us.  The discussion continues and we are joine by Bertrum.....

Gaya Ethaniel: Well if not see you at Tibetan class :)
Zon Quar: what is tibetan class ?
Scathach Rhiadra: Tibetan Language classes:)
Zon Quar: wow
Scathach Rhiadra: not part of PaB, needless to say:)
Zon Quar: lol
Bertram Jacobus: i´m still avictim of summer/winter time ... ;-)
Scathach Rhiadra: ah yes, I think the US joins the rest of the world tomorrow
Zon Quar: yup
Bertram Jacobus: uh. then the meetings will be again in the hours i was used to
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Zon Quar: r u part of kira club Bert ?
Bertram Jacobus: and - back to the former topic : i like the many ways of meditation and spirituality ...
Scathach Rhiadra: yes I keep missing things, forgatting theya re an hour earlier
Bertram Jacobus: no zon. are you ? why do you ask ?
Zon Quar: im interested in this palce
Zon Quar: very good conversations
Bertram Jacobus: for me it´s a question of time ...
Zon Quar: ah
Bertram Jacobus: for sake. there are so many things to do, so many possibilities - and the day only has 24 hours ...
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zon Quar: ways of meditation...
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i liked, for example, very early explanations (in my life) where was said, there were ways of body, mind and heart in yoga ...
Zon Quar: nods
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertram Jacobus: that meats quite the mentionings you made already :-)
Zon Quar: u should know ur type
Zon Quar: to know what is good for u..lol
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and i´m defenitly a mind type
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zon Quar: i am too
Zon Quar: but
Bertram Jacobus: although i know the heart way would be faster
Zon Quar: im trying
Zon Quar: to do heart things
Zon Quar: lately
Bertram Jacobus: yes. for sure in the end all those qualities get developed
Zon Quar: to balance
Zon Quar: in head..thinking is so strong
Bertram Jacobus: and a nice thing on the "mind ways" is, that one can stand really good all criticisms , from others for example :-)
Zon Quar: i think i must try to go beyond that
Zon Quar: to trust exixtence
Zon Quar: so its a feeling
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i see. and understand. and agree :-)
Zon Quar: if u intellectulaize
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zon Quar: u get easily stuck
Zon Quar: in logic
Zon Quar: and existence is a paradox
Bertram Jacobus: yes. but therefor there is meditation for example i think ...
Bertram Jacobus: hi bertrum ... :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertrum
Zon Quar: hi bert
Bertrum Quan: hi everyone
--BELL--
Zon Quar: but i agree..finally we experience all 3 ways..interconnected
Scathach Rhiadra: Bertrum, we are discussing ways of practice, generally
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and paradoxies i like very much : they dissolve all stucking in my opinion or help at least with it
Zon Quar: and make me smile..lol
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. another fine point :-)
Zon Quar: sometimes we try to fit the world to human logic
Zon Quar: but human logic is just one part of reality
Bertram Jacobus: yes. but sometimes we also notice that that is not the only way to live and understand ... ;-9
Scathach Rhiadra nods, some would say 'all the time' we try to do that:0
Bertram Jacobus: uh. the ugly nine again ! *grr* :o)
Zon Quar: lol
Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-)
Bertram Jacobus: but scath - i alway have very present in my mind, that tastes for example or also physical feelings and the other sensations via our senses are not a pure mind factor
Zon Quar: sensing is not thinking i think..lol
Scathach Rhiadra nods, agree, but we can also sometimes try to label and categorise them
Scathach Rhiadra: make them fir into our view of reality, so to speak
Scathach Rhiadra: fit*
Bertram Jacobus: yes. but or and in this range mind is okay to me ...
Zon Quar: smiles..all is ok
Bertram Jacobus: nice view
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: but very heavy for the most when you regard the normally as worst aspects of life and world seen points ... i don´t want to mention some of them ...
Bertram Jacobus: and isn´t it interesting how much we here can write directly into the heads of the otheres (!?) ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: that should contain a very big responsibility ...
Zon Quar: can we ?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. you read me and i read you. very direct
Zon Quar: but the way i read u
Bertram Jacobus: unfiltered, at least first
Zon Quar: is conditioned by my mind
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, or we think we do maybe?:)
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i agree. but thats another point
Bertram Jacobus: we do what please ?
Zon Quar: do we really understan eachoter ?
Zon Quar: or ourselves
Zon Quar: even
Scathach Rhiadra: or just our projections
Bertram Jacobus: may be a matter of point of view. mine is - yes, we understand each other :-)
Zon Quar: lol
Bertram Jacobus: hehe :-))
Zon Quar: ok. i agree
Zon Quar: u can sense
Zon Quar: the common understanding
Zon Quar: somehow
Bertram Jacobus: great ! i like that ! i think harmonie is nearer to enlightenment then being divided ...
Zon Quar: but that depends on the depth of ur own understanding
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i agree also i that point of feeling. even here
--BELL--
Zon Quar: but u are not resposible how the other understands ur words, of course u try to be precise, but the final reslut is not ur responsibility, i think
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertram Jacobus: nods too :-)

Bertram notices that this is not Zon's first avatar, and the mention of rebirth brings us to discussing the existence (or not) of the soul.....

Bertram Jacobus: this is not your first avatar zon ?
Zon Quar: no
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... :-))
Zon Quar: ii was reborn
Zon Quar: a new incarnation
Bertram Jacobus: lol. great !
Scathach Rhiadra: what happened to the last one, if i may ask?
Zon Quar: he will die soon
Zon Quar: after i had done some cleaning
Bertram Jacobus: at last a person who knows really something about that topic - rebirth and such ! ;o)
Zon Quar: of old memories
Zon Quar: and take all that is good
Zon Quar: and abandon the useless
Bertram Jacobus: interesting ... how long you are already in sl if i may ask ?
Zon Quar: hm
Zon Quar: 2 years
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Zon Quar: and u ?
Bertram Jacobus: as my profile shows - around two and a half years ... hm -
Bertram Jacobus: bit more ...
Zon Quar: old soul..
Zon Quar: over 2 years of existence..
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. don´t know ... ;o)
Zon Quar: thas old
Bertram Jacobus: for sl. ok :-)
Zon Quar: if there is soul
Bertram Jacobus: depends on what people understand from that word ... hm
Zon Quar: separate being
Bertram Jacobus: don´t want to hurt people with desillusion ... hm - or with my thoughts about that ... which are not so romantic ... (?) ... ;-)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Zon Quar: would u share them anyhow
Bertram Jacobus: ah ! seperate being ! interesting understanding of soul ! for me there is the ego enough ... to seperate ...
Zon Quar: soul can be an elevated ego
Zon Quar: in our thoughts
Bertram Jacobus: i´m very simple with that point : i only have the impression of knowing nothing about that - soul - i even don´t know all of this life (!) ...
Bertram Jacobus: yes zon. i agree again with you
Bertram Jacobus: and i try more to find the here and now then something "out there" in eternity or other lifes and so on ...
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertram Jacobus: and my impression is, again, the results of searching and developing will be the same in the end
Bertram Jacobus: may be something transcendental ...
Zon Quar: its interesing though that we have these emotional knots in us
Zon Quar: that tend to condition us
Bertram Jacobus: thats the point i had in my mind too : emotions
Zon Quar: that might be our soul
Zon Quar: or ego
Bertram Jacobus: yes. "absolutely" (not wordly) ;-)
--BELL--
Zon Quar: and when we r in here and now, those knots can rise in us and we see our ego
Bertram Jacobus: emotions ... interesting : a big part at least of our egos and "souls" ... nice thought. ...
Bertram Jacobus: i think or have the impression, in the center of here and now there are no knots anymore ...
Zon Quar: they r deep
Bertram Jacobus: sure
Bertram Jacobus: yes
Zon Quar: at least in me
Bertram Jacobus: sometimes live time affairs
Zon Quar: or more..lol
Scathach Rhiadra: but 'seeing' them is different to following them, or getting lost in them
Bertram Jacobus: as i already mentioned : i don´t know ... ;o)
Zon Quar: nods
Zon Quar: mindfulness..
Bertram Jacobus: yes. nice meeting this morning. ty to all ! ...
Zon Quar: i too must go
Scathach Rhiadra: thank you, great discussion:)
Zon Quar: namaste all, that was nice :)
Bertram Jacobus: then have a great time zon - nice having met you ! :-)
Zon Quar: u too
Zon Quar: bye
Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
Bertrum Quan: Nice to meet you.
Bertram Jacobus: bye zon
Scathach Rhiadra: have a good weekend everyone, Namasté
Bertram Jacobus: okay - same same - i´ll leave then, too ...
Bertrum Quan: bye Scath