2009.11.08 07:00 - We Stand on the Shoulders of Squirrels

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Dubrovna. The comments are by Adams Dubrovna.

    I was alone for a few minutes and busy wrestling with a hud update and missed Eos and Steve arrive for  a minute or so. We had all been at the retreat in Princeton and opened the session with that

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Adams, Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, long time :)
    Eos Amaterasu: You look different :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice seeing you yesterday
    stevenaia Michinaga: must be your rose colored glasses
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Steve :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Special, vivid day yesterday
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes it was
    Adams Dubrovna: Nice to see you here, I wasn;t expecting you :)
    Adams Dubrovna adjusts camera and sees Eos and Steve
    Eos Amaterasu: Thought I'd drop in before the guardians mtg
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was doing the same
    Adams Dubrovna: Great to see you. No brunch this morning?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I will not make it as I have some traveling to do todau
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm recovering from my frat boys beer and cheese event :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: No, I will meet Pema after the mtg and we'll take the train, me to airport, Newark, he to NYC
    Adams Dubrovna nods
    Eos Amaterasu: Did beer and cheese live up to expectatins
    stevenaia Michinaga: atually, yes, as well as the company
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do ahve 1/2 a case remaining if you like stout, something I don;t remember drinking in college
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Steve begins a new thread on the the relationships between SL and RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: I had this strange feeling last night that everything that was spoken would end up in a log posted somewhere
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, strange isn't it :)
    Adams Dubrovna: seems like it should be
    stevenaia Michinaga: ....as SL slowly begins to take over RL
    Adams Dubrovna: hehe
    stevenaia Michinaga: I read of a construct that in the future computers will be such that , as we control our avatars here, there we ourselves could in fect be a simulation being run by someone with a very powerful computer
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: More intersting might be how our SL activitiedsaffect out RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: thier computers jsut happen to ahve the abiliy to give is conciousness
    stevenaia Michinaga: give us avatars
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm suggesting our RL could be someone's SL
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, I know
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: another way of looking at reality :)
    Eos Amaterasu is getting paranoid
    stevenaia Michinaga: .... types into eos's avatar
    Adams Dubrovna: heh heh
    Eos Amaterasu 's hands are moving by themselves
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Eos turns this to thoughts arising
    Eos Amaterasu: Actually, 99% of my thoughts just happen
    Eos Amaterasu: I think that "I" think them, but I notice that really they just come up
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: plenty of room for them to be someone elses
    Eos Amaterasu: Most of them are
    Eos Amaterasu: We repeat phrases and cliches
    stevenaia Michinaga: we say creativity "happens", as do "new" ideas, perhaps they are places there by our good fairy when needed
    stevenaia Michinaga: *placed
    stevenaia Michinaga: (one explanation)
    Adams Dubrovna: Maybe we are the computers and just reprocessing input
    stevenaia Michinaga: Who (what) gave Einstein the implasable ability to see what he saw to change science in that way
    stevenaia Michinaga: I prefer the little fairy theory
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: explains all perfectly, cept where the little fairies come from
    Adams Dubrovna: Maybe he a Mac instead of a PC :)
    Eos Amaterasu: fairies... kamis... dralas... spirits... how Being speaks?
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Celtic Fairies as Guardians
    Eos Amaterasu: I went to a presentation on Celtic fairies in Cape Breton.... not just cute little thingies with wings
    Eos Amaterasu: they guard and take care of places
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Adelene :)
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, guardians?
    Eos Amaterasu: speaking of beings with wings, hi Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, all. :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hugs adelene
    Adelene Dawner purrs ^.^
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: rub, rub
    Eos Amaterasu: we were talking about where thoughts, ideas, come from... maybe from faeries....
    Eos Amaterasu: muses
    We try an idea that Eos had proposed during the retreat
    Adams Dubrovna: It is close to the 90 second stop
    Adams Dubrovna: I've never noticed gthe fairies watching my thoughts :)
    Adelene Dawner: Maybe I'm a party pooper, but: Recombined memes, with the occasional ligical extension of a known concept to add a new meme to the mix.
    Adelene Dawner: *logical
    stevenaia Michinaga: I suppose this comes from the excercise yesterday at the retreat about watching those thoughts arise
    Adelene Dawner: (Or typo or misremembering, to add a bit of variance :) )
    Eos Amaterasu: or letting being see
    Eos Amaterasu: Shal we watch how, where perceptions, thoughts arise?
    Adams Dubrovna: sounds good
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Adams Dubrovna: for 90 seconds
    Eos Amaterasu tightens belt
    Adams Dubrovna: I was very aware of how the senses trigger thoughts but when I close my eyes, it seems to be a random generator
    Adams Dubrovna: as you noted Eos, there is a collection of other peoples thoughts seekingly stored there
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, enjoy your day
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Steve. Have good travels
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Stevenaia
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Steve :)
    Eos Amaterasu: happy trails
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Ade, Eos Adams
    Adams Dubrovna: Would anyone else like to report?
    Eos Amaterasu: Watching things happen out the window, squirrels, some planning thoughts coming up,they just come up
    Eos Amaterasu: busy place, my mind
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: like squirrels :)
    Adams Dubrovna: ?
    Thoughts extending from exisiting thoughts
    Eos Amaterasu: Adelene, you were suggesting we logicaly extend from existing thoughts?
    Adelene Dawner: Sorry, the cat was demanding attention - yes, we do seem to.
    Eos Amaterasu: we stand on the shoulders of squirrels :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: question is, how does that extension happend?
    Adelene Dawner: I have an example that might be useful, even though it isn't very strong.
    Adams Dubrovna: so much for Creationism (to standing on shoulders comment)
    Adams Dubrovna listens
    Adelene Dawner: Vegetarianism has never *really* made much sense to me. We're designed to be omnivorous, it's a pain to pay enough attention to your diet to be healthy without eating animal products, all the usual lines of reasoning.
    Kyriarchy and Vegetarianism
    Adelene Dawner: Then I found this word: http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/kyriarchy/
    Adelene Dawner: And I was thinking about it in different contexts. When I got to 'humans having power over animals', I went 'oh... oh, right'. I'm considering vegetarianism, or at least cutting down on how much meat I eat, now.
    Eos Amaterasu: HIerarchy as itself a dominating meme?
    Eos Amaterasu finds squees comments funny in exactly that sense
    Adelene Dawner: Something like that, Eos. It's not emphasized as much as I'd like there, but one part of the kyriarchy meme is that who has more power is situational.
    Eos Amaterasu: How does that relate to extending to "my novel contribution" from existing thoughts, ideas?
    Adelene Dawner: The example is weak, because I'd heard of vegetarianism before, but I suspect I might've invented it if I hadn't already known about it. And that understanding of how I'm personally using my power in that kind of situation is new to me, and I definitely hadn't had that bit of understanding before, or, I think, been exposed to it.
    Adelene Dawner: (A better kyriarchy link: http://unapologeticallyfat.blogspot....archy-101.html )
    Eos Amaterasu: So notion of kyriarchy was a stepping stone (shoulder?) allowing a new insight onto vegetarianism?
    Adelene Dawner: Yep.
    Eos Amaterasu: So there was genuine "ingression of novelty" at that point
    Adelene Dawner: And it let me articulate a few other ideas that I'd been working on so that I can progress on them, too, though no notable insights yet.
    Adelene Dawner: *nods*
    Adams Dubrovna: You may intersted in this see #1: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress..../08/dying-456/
    Adelene Dawner nods at Adams.
    Eos Amaterasu: Wow, pretty intese!
    Eos Amaterasu: *intense
    Adams Dubrovna: Helllo Doug
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi doug
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Doug.
    Adams Dubrovna: Power on relationships si something I have tried my best to avoid
    Eos Amaterasu: Were you still "aware" in that blackness, Adams?
    Adams Dubrovna: There are many people who think in those terms though
    Adelene Dawner: I don't know if it's really avoidable, Adams, and if it's not, ignoring it will make it worse. It seems better to me to be aware.
    Adams Dubrovna: That's a tricky question Eos. I wasn't that aware at the time, I may have been a bit shicked ast the turn of events
    Adams Dubrovna: I don;t mean not to be aware but to refuse to play that game Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: *nods*
    Adams Dubrovna: neither the victim nor the powerful one
    Eos Amaterasu: Although if we eat chicken we play that game, so Adelene you are considering not playing that game (with meat)?
    Adams Dubrovna nods to Eos
    Adelene Dawner: Or playing it more thoughtfully, anyway.
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm
    Adelene Dawner: I don't seem to function as well when I don't eat meat regularly, so it's a question of how to strike a balance. I'm still thinking about what that balance should look like.
    Eos Amaterasu: there's some inevitability to playing life/death games in our interdependent world, but I guess we can tune that somewhat
    Eos Amaterasu: (tofu with good sauces can be quite tasty and proteinaceous :-)
    Adams Dubrovna: Sometimes new ideas take a while to take hold in us
    Eos Amaterasu: I will segue to the Guardians meeting
    Adams Dubrovna: new ideas to us that is
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, almost time to go
    Eos Amaterasu: thank u both for the conversation
    Adams Dubrovna: thank you both :)
    Adelene Dawner: I have some cleaning to do, so I guess I'll go. And the cat wants more petting. *chuckle*
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye, Ade
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Adelene. good to see you :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Eos Amaterasu: Which way, lose sense of direction
    Adams Dubrovna: i use the map
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