2009.11.13 13:00 - can your brain count more then 3 ?

The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
Wol Euler: hallo yaku, wie geht's?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Es, is ok, ich schaue gerade nach dem stromverbrauch meiner elektrogeräte.
--BELL--
Wol Euler: spannend! :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: Ja allerdings, ich habe ein gerät das 18W braucht aber auf dem netzteil steht 12V 1000ma
Yakuzza Lethecus: also das dürfte nur 12W schaffen wird auch knallheiss
Wol Euler: O.O
Wol Euler: kein wunder.
Yakuzza Lethecus: Mein wlanrouter
Yakuzza Lethecus: 18watt die ständig laufen
Wol Euler: vielleicht haben die eine falsche geliefert?
Wol Euler: was meint der Router selber schlucken zu wollen?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Der ist schon 5-6 Jahre alt.
Yakuzza Lethecus: Steht leider nicht drauf.
Wol Euler: aber google weist alles :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: Ja soll auch 18 Watt verbrauchen.
Wol Euler: ah, dann ist tatsächlich die falsche Trafo.
Yakuzza Lethecus: Das Netzteil ist auch richtig, mit dem Cisco Linksys logo
Yakuzza Lethecus: Good evening calvin
Wol Euler: hello calvin, welcome back.
Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah ok :)
Calvino Rabeni: good day. Yes.
Wol Euler: mmhmm, he was here mid-week
Yakuzza Lethecus: Does anyone of you have a topic in mind ?
Wol Euler: nope, sorry
Calvino Rabeni: I'm feeling lagged. Does anyone ever talk about hygeine for being in SL?
Wol Euler: hello Arch, nice to see you.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi arch
Wol Euler: hygiene? as in switching off once in a while?
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, some of my favorite people :)
Wol Euler smiles
Archmage Atlantis: Hello, all
Yakuzza Lethecus: My SL hygiene is good right now, i don't spend more then 2-3 hrs logged in.
Yakuzza Lethecus: But most of that time i am not very mindful.
Archmage Atlantis: I'm experiencing lag also
Calvino Rabeni: well, the medium gets hooked into one's neurology, body sense and all that.
Wol Euler nods. Me toooooo.
Calvino Rabeni: so data latency can be experienced as physical tension
Wol Euler: it's easy to get addicted to SL, I think.
Calvino Rabeni: some people it can turn into chronic stuff, like RSI
Archmage Atlantis: Hey, for us homebound it is more real than life at times *grin*
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: hello ara
arabella Ella: hiya
Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Arabella
Wol Euler: the risk of getting addicted seems to be hardwired into our brains
Yakuzza Lethecus: guten abend ara
Wol Euler: people get addicted to alll kinds of very wierd stuff
Archmage Atlantis: That is a good topic, what is addiction
arabella Ella: guten abend Yaku :)
Archmage Atlantis: If a writer spends hours and days writing a book, is that addiction?
Wol Euler: it is if he thinks it is :)
arabella Ella: there may be a fine line between motivation and obsession i guess
Calvino Rabeni: canyou define addiction as a process
Wol Euler: I think the boundary line is volition. If you want to do it, it's a habit or a hobby; if you would rather not, but cannot stop, then it's an addiction
Wol Euler: or a job :)
arabella Ella nods
Archmage Atlantis: There are 100s of definations of addiction, usually used as judgements by other people
Wol Euler: there are good, positive, addictions too. A friend of mine says he's addicted to running every morning
Wol Euler: if he doesn'T get his fix, he is grumpy and fidgety all day
arabella Ella: but that is because running gives the body positive endorphins which become addictive
Wol Euler points to the last word of your sentence :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, they treat that addiction to physical activity here in some clinics
Calvino Rabeni: TV - addiction?
Wol Euler: yep, that too.
Wol Euler: gambling, lotteries
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Running anger with people - addiction?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Can we see a medium as addictive in itself ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Is it the TV or is it the TV shows you get addicted from ?
Calvino Rabeni: :) typing during the silent period - technically, is that considered silent?
Calvino Rabeni: Nevermind
Wol Euler grins and shakes her head
Yakuzza Lethecus hides
Wol Euler: hello qt, gaya
arabella Ella: :)
Qt Core: hi all
arabella Ella: hiya Qt, Gaya
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt, gaya
Calvino Rabeni: If you turn off the aimation, noone knows you're typing to get your expression ready for when the bell rings.
Wol Euler: :)
Archmage Atlantis: My thought is that I can type what Is in my mind, but not hit send/say to interrupt otherrs
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Wol Euler: actually I like the animation, the cue that something is about to be said.
Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Gaya, QT
Wol Euler: I try not to buy animations that override it.
Calvino Rabeni: My thought is, the silence is for my mind, rather than not-disturbing-others.
Archmage Atlantis: My mind is silent when I type in the pause, the part of me that types is other
Archmage Atlantis: Each of us is different
Wol Euler: indeed :)
arabella Ella: Hiya Bert
Qt Core: the three points are even louder than what will appear after a while as they have the possibility of becoming everything
arabella Ella: Hiya Zon
Wol Euler: hello bertram, zon
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bertram and Zon :)
Zon Quar: hi all
Bertram Jacobus: hey all ! :-) ...
arabella Ella: three points?
Qt Core: the dots
Wol Euler: …
arabella Ella: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bertram Jacobus: this everything can even be nothing (!) ... :-)
Archmage Atlantis: Mathematically, a point has no dimension
Archmage Atlantis: Only location on a grid
Calvino Rabeni: three points define, a plane, but also, a series
Bertram Jacobus: thats a real mystery to me arch ! : we have the idea of a point but no experience of it (!) ...
Qt Core: but nonetheless so much math is about them ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: Mathematics and Philosophy are tied at the core
Calvino Rabeni: jokes always have three events, or rabbis, or whatever.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: children's tales three brothers or sisters
Wol Euler: or bears
arabella Ella: but seven dwarfs
Wol Euler: mm, true.
Calvino Rabeni: My point is.
Bertram Jacobus: and mountains ara ... ;-)
Wol Euler: perhaps because they are so short?
arabella Ella: he he
Calvino Rabeni: Well the logic is different in narratology than numerology
Archmage Atlantis: Calvino, I think there were some studies done years ago that the current human brain only can count to 3
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
arabella Ella: what do you mean Arch?
Qt Core: a little more, between 4 and 5
Calvino Rabeni: The mind loses interest after three
arabella Ella: sounds a bit counterintuitive
Archmage Atlantis: After that we start to combine, 1s, 2s, and 3s
Bertram Jacobus: the human brain can count ? if so at least mine can count more than 3 :-)
Wol Euler: depends what you mean by "count", perhaps.
Yakuzza Lethecus: or that the maximum we can memorize at once is about 7
Qt Core: the numbers of things you can "know" how many thai are not having to count them
Archmage Atlantis: Visualize I suppose would be better
arabella Ella: i heard that we can easily memorise lists of up to six items like a six number phone
Wol Euler: let's try that at the next bell :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Neela :)
Wol Euler: a little workshop on counting.
Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone:)
Wol Euler: start at one and count upwards, and watch yourself counting.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello neela
Wol Euler: try to keep the numbers in mind.
Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
Wol Euler: can you, as you count past 21 22 23 etc -- can you still hold and appreciate 1 and 14 in your mind?
Yakuzza Lethecus: ups nevermind
Neela Blaisdale: oh yes, just not too much in a wjile:)
Wol Euler: hello neela, nice to see you
Bertram Jacobus: hi neela ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur even in the group :)
Qt Core: but don't imagine sheeps while counting ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have a body sense of how many avatars here here inthe circle?
Archmage Atlantis: That is a good question Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: THe kind of counting crows do, perhaps.
Wol Euler: with my eyes open I would say yes :)
Bertram Jacobus: my body sense might say : some ... (?)
Wol Euler: counting now ...
Bertram Jacobus: and my brain counts 10 :-)
--BELL--
Wol Euler smiles. Any comments?
Bertram Jacobus: 63
Qt Core: i kept seeing a list of the number going away in the background
Qt Core: white numbers disappearing in darkness
Bertram Jacobus: a bit more concious then at other times, may be because of the group support ...
Qt Core: and the counting was trying to get in sync with breathing
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: when I stopped that, it tried to sync with my heartbeat instead :)
Wol Euler: I tried to keep contact with the numbers, to keep them in my mind as I continued to count
Wol Euler: like putting rubber ducklings into the circle of my arms in the bath :)
Wol Euler: but found I couldn't keep track of them, couldn't hold on to them.
Wol Euler: only two or three number were ever "present" at one time
Wol Euler: I knew that I had counted the rest, but htey were somehow past and detached
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean you had lost a focus somewhat after 3?
Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: Grouped or cataloged
Archmage Atlantis: Not lost
Wol Euler: rather that my focus ws only broad enough to hold about three numbers at once
Gaya Ethaniel: Or ... your focus 'expanded' in a way instead?
Qt Core: i got 1,13 and 14 keeping to grasp my attention
Wol Euler: my "present moment" was only big enough to hold three, the rest became "past"
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Wol Euler: yes arch, not lost as such, but not immediately present, I knew they were there but could not touch thtem
Calvino Rabeni: is there a greater present moment, or is consciousness a keyhole view?
Archmage Atlantis: Interesting observation
Archmage Atlantis: Calvino
Archmage Atlantis: I can only say that keyholes are views
Archmage Atlantis: stolen
Archmage Atlantis: imho
Bertram Jacobus: humble ? ;-)
arabella Ella: snapshots perhaps
Wol Euler: like the sequence of still frames of a movie, to use Pema's favourite metaphor
Archmage Atlantis: What would you ask me Berrtram
Bertram Jacobus: whether your opinion is really humble arch (?) ...
Calvino Rabeni: it just seems - introspection is fraught
Wol Euler: it's a convention of speech, bert :)
Archmage Atlantis: It is an acknowledgement that I do not know everything
Bertram Jacobus: i know wol, but it always makes me ... taking it litterally - bad ?
Wol Euler: only insofar as it is usually not meant literally, except as Arch said.
Wol Euler: when someone says "I died laughing" they usually don't mean "... and am now a rotting corpse"
arabella Ella: you could replace it with 'as far as i know' or 'to the best of my knowledge'
Archmage Atlantis: It is not how I would say it in RL
Archmage Atlantis: I am trying to learn the conventions of speach in this place
arabella Ella: :)
Wol Euler smiles
Bertram Jacobus: impressing example wol ! ... hm ... ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: metaphors have uncanny power
Bertram Jacobus: but - the tibetans say : relativity should be taken as precise (and fine) as farina ...
Wol Euler: (another pause coming up, does anyone have a suggestion?)
Archmage Atlantis: What is a metaphor?
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel frowns ... thought Archmage is a poet ...
Calvino Rabeni: metaphor is the tructure of thought
Calvino Rabeni: structure
Calvino Rabeni: or the story behind it
Gaya Ethaniel: Good night :)
Wol Euler: a metaphor is a comparison, an image that brings two things together that don't actually belong together
Yakuzza Lethecus: night gaya
Bertram Jacobus: nighty nite gaya ! ... :-)
Wol Euler: bye gaya
Archmage Atlantis: Night Gaya, thank you for being here
Neela Blaisdale: bye Gaya
Wol Euler: "he's a bear when he's angry"
Wol Euler: or "the world is your oyster"
arabella Ella: brb
Calvino Rabeni: don't belong together *by convention*. So the definition is relative to convention.
Archmage Atlantis: All of a sudden I feel all eyes upon me
Archmage Atlantis: Obviously delusion
Wol Euler: or don't belong together by fact. He remains a member of the species Homo Sapiens when angry.
Wol Euler: heh, don't worry, Arch.
Bertram Jacobus: re yaku (?) ;-)
Wol Euler: ah, there you are :) your nametag appeared nearly a minute before you did
Neela Blaisdale: the appearance of Yakuzza....:)
Bertram Jacobus: ty all for the talk - have a great time . and may all beings be happy please ! ...
Neela Blaisdale: Bye Bert:)
Wol Euler: goodnight bert, take care
Archmage Atlantis: Keep learning Bertram
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: 'night bert
Archmage Atlantis: That is brave
Neela Blaisdale: what is brave, Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: To continue to learn
Neela Blaisdale: Ah...
arabella Ella: back
Wol Euler: wb
Calvino Rabeni: who's got a favorite metaphor?
arabella Ella: i have many
Wol Euler: "the world is your lobster"
Archmage Atlantis: please share
arabella Ella: where there's a will there's a way
Neela Blaisdale: l0l"\:)
Calvino Rabeni: how about one you live inside?
Wol Euler: interesting idea, calvino, can you suggest one like that?
Calvino Rabeni: yes. two that come to mind.
Calvino Rabeni: the wheel of karma (makes me dizzy, I just want to get off)....
Calvino Rabeni: My mind is a container. An empty one. (not really)
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: cool
Wol Euler: nice examples.
Calvino Rabeni: Another - "zombie". Really popular on TV these last couple years.
Archmage Atlantis: Yak gave me one another day recently
Wol Euler: mmm?
--BELL--
arabella Ella: will you share it?
Archmage Atlantis: I was observing him, so not really fair to share it
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am also curioius :)
Wol Euler grins. Pretty please?
Archmage Atlantis: I do not have the original poem
Archmage Atlantis: But the essence came from a time when he was here when I arrived
Archmage Atlantis: And only his avatar remained for the session
Archmage Atlantis: "we are seen, but unseen
Archmage Atlantis: We are here but not here
Archmage Atlantis: We are'
Wol Euler nods
Archmage Atlantis: that's it
arabella Ella: cool
arabella Ella: and so true
arabella Ella: fraid i must go nite all
Calvino Rabeni: bye
Qt Core: bye ara
Wol Euler: ha, I turn away for a moment ...
Archmage Atlantis: It is time, an hour is long to us
Wol Euler: true, I too shold be moving on. It's been a great discussion, thank you all.
Wol Euler: goodnight, take care.
Qt Core: bye wol
Neela Blaisdale: Bye Arch
Qt Core: and bye arch
Neela Blaisdale: Me too Bye everyone
Zon Quar: namaste
Calvino Rabeni: any topics in the air?
Yakuzza Lethecus: night