2009.11.19 13:00 - Regularity

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Qt
    Qt Core: ty, hi Storm
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Storm Nordwind: Greetings Wol!
    Wol Euler: hello qt, storm, zon
    Storm Nordwind: Not sure if Zon is with us yet! :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Anything anyone wants to talk about... or do? Or shall we just enjoy the silence? :)
    Wol Euler: it's not PaB related, but I am still thinking about something htat happened on Monday
    Wol Euler: or we could be silent
    Storm Nordwind: I'll leave that to your judgment Wol :)
    Qt Core: hi calvino
    Wol Euler: hello calvino
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Good afternoon!
    Storm Nordwind: Not for Wol and Qt :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Rain and storm, actually
    Wol Euler: evening here, actually, but I'll accept hte "good" part of it
    Calvino Rabeni: What time is it in this sim place?
    Qt Core: i find the tell me a story and the name calvino a very nice coupling, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvino for the reason
    Qt Core: hi Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
    Wol Euler nods to QT. One of my favourite authors.
    Storm Nordwind: I once had an avatar I named after a favorite artist
    But which one would be telling! ;)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Some consider I. C. postmodern as an author. But is there "post post"?
    Zon Quar: hi all
    Storm Nordwind: Aha... Zon awakes!
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome :)
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Zon Quar: ty:)
    Zon Quar: what is the topic or is there one ?
    I raise a topic about the regularity of 9 second meditations, originally suggested as every 15 minutes. How does that work for people?
    Storm Nordwind: There wasn't one, but I will start one :)
    Zon Quar: shoot
    Wol Euler: ((symmetry))
    Zon Quar: (doesnt complain)
    Storm Nordwind: How do people feel about integrating the 9 second practice in their daily lives? I find it makes me more relaxed to do the practice (at a simple level) but I guess it's possible to get unrelaxed about the regularity of it or about intruding impressions. What does anyone think?
    Zon Quar: it makes me calmer
    Wol Euler: I found it frustrating and annoying until I stopped trying to do it by the clock.
    Storm Nordwind: Right Wol! :)
    Zon Quar: gives distance to the identification on the situation at hand
    Storm Nordwind: That sounds good Zon. Would you like to say more?
    Zon Quar: yes,, i dont do it regurlarky either
    Zon Quar: just remind me daily
    Zon Quar: severeal times
    Zon Quar: esåecoally if i feel anxiouty
    Storm Nordwind: haha Zon! So there's the standard meditation paradox here, a little like "Try really hard to relax!"
    Zon Quar: just watch
    Zon Quar: and it relaxes
    Zon Quar: by itself
    Storm Nordwind: Yes
    Wol Euler nods
    Zon Quar: and i try to remind me not to control teh situation
    Storm Nordwind: So if the regularity can be annoying (and I'm sure some might say they sometimes find it impractical), what is the value of the 15 minute interval?
    Zon Quar: to start it i guess
    Wol Euler shrugs. I'm not saying that it has no value, just that it doesn't work *for me*
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Zon Quar: if u dont schedule a thing..it wont happen easyly
    Zon Quar: u tend to forget
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect that's a large part of it Zon
    Calvino Rabeni: You can arrange other reminders besides the timer
    Zon Quar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: You just associate them mentally
    Calvino Rabeni: when I see this, I do the thing
    Qt Core: i can't say mine, even at random times in the 9 sec practice, i just stop and refocus/check the world when i feel i need it
    Qt Core: in=is
    Storm Nordwind: What have you found works in that way Calvino?
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Qt Core: hi eliza
    Zon Quar: hi eliza
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol, Storm, Calvino, Zon, Qt. Thank you :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Ya
    Calvino Rabeni: it is arbitrary, but during transitions between different activities, mostly.
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Like before I sit down at the desk, or after, or when I leave the house
    Storm Nordwind: And comparing it to the regular 15 minutes, how have you found it? (Or did you go straight to this method?)
    Calvino Rabeni: Those transitions are less well defined in terms of habits, so they are kind of natural junctures between different clusters of habits. (That sounds complicated I guess, but the experience is simple)
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, thos times are when a kind of identity shift happens
    Calvino Rabeni: You put on a different face
    Zon Quar: nods..a little pause
    Storm Nordwind: That's really useful Calvino. Thank you :)
    Calvino Rabeni: YW
    Wol Euler: yes, a good tip.
    So the assembled crowd are not that regular. But is 15 minutes still good for helping people get started?
    Storm Nordwind: I guess I'm interested from an educator's point of view... Is the regular 15 minute a good way to start and then find that you iterate towards something more personal. Would that be a recommendation you'd make to others?
    Calvino Rabeni: that makes sense to me
    Wol Euler nods. I think it is a good place to start, and if it works for you then that
    Wol Euler: that's great.
    Wol Euler: (new keybord, the apostrophe is a tiny bit too close to Return)
    Calvino Rabeni: whatever works!
    Storm Nordwind watches topic #1 quickly run out of steam :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: What kind of education did you mean, storm?
    Storm Nordwind: Before moving to the US, I was a professional educator for a few years. I'm interested in applying that to helping people get started with PaB
    Storm Nordwind: What are the best ways to do that? Are there as many best ways as there are people? :)
    Qt Core: the fixed time may be useful for people that are doing sometimg long but easil interruptible
    Storm Nordwind nods to Qt
    Qt Core: i already have issues keeping my concentration at work, another interruption would be not welcomed ;-)
    Storm Nordwind: I can sympathize with that Qt!
    Wol Euler: hello ari
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ari :)
    Qt Core: hi arisia
    Arisia Vita: Hi all
    Storm Nordwind: We've floated the idea of introductory sessions, as well as buddy-mentoring... anything that helps people get the most out of the practice and helps it stick.
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Ari
    Zon Quar: ari
    Calvino Rabeni: QT, it can seem like an interruption for sure, but it could also be a tathering together of attention for mor effective work.
    Calvino Rabeni: gathering
    Qt Core: yes, the refocusing part i call it, but i do that when i feel i'm loosing concentration, so when an interruption is happening anyway
    Qt Core: or just restarting after an external interruption, almost like you said before
    Calvino Rabeni: that sounds like an effective strategy
    Wol Euler: that does sound like a good idea. It never occurred to me :) I'll try that in the office
    Storm Nordwind: Maybe it depends on whether your task is best done with foreground concentration or background in the subconscious. Perhaps it's effective for one rather than the other?
    Zon Quar: gtg, goodnigth all
    Wol Euler: bye zon, take care
    Storm Nordwind: Goodnight Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zon :)
    Arisia Vita: bye Zon, be well and happy
    We talk about cultural sensitivity in education.
    Calvino Rabeni: Education for adults, storm? (apropo of earlier)
    Calvino Rabeni: Also it is culturally sensitive
    Storm Nordwind: In my case professionally, yes for adults. And I'm aware of cultural sensitivities as I had American, European and Asian students
    Storm Nordwind: Though I hadn't yet put much thought into, say, Asian ways of doing things wrt PaB
    Calvino Rabeni: Not just that, but for instande, in America as elsewhere there are many subcultures with very different sensibilities
    Storm Nordwind: So how would you address those?
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't think there's a trick to make it easy, but some awareness and insight provides clues
    Calvino Rabeni: for instance a friend is trying to introduce mindfulness techniques
    Calvino Rabeni: to a group that consists of military people. And along with that there is an element of christian fundamentalism.
    Storm Nordwind: But are these people who want to be taught? Or is someone else telling them to be taught?
    Calvino Rabeni: So he has to try to work it in the context of those attitudes and possibly, hot-button issues
    Calvino Rabeni: And he studies someone else's mistakes
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they want to be taught.
    Storm Nordwind: Interesting. Yes the fundies are a whole new culture to me. Even Scottish sectarianism was not like this!
    Wol Euler nods
    Calvino Rabeni: He needs to have an idea WHY they want to learn.
    Calvino Rabeni: And what limits they have.
    Calvino Rabeni: MEaning, where they won't go.
    Storm Nordwind: Yes. Essential things. That take time. And often difficult in a group context.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes on all that. Sorry, can't take magic shortcuts :)
    Storm Nordwind: Oh I wasn't suggesting there were any! :)
    Calvino Rabeni: THere must be some :)
    Storm Nordwind: I'm exploring what ways might be good to offer
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Storm, everyone. :) Bye for now. Much to think about in this topic... sorry few thoughts so far! :)
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps your friend might be interested in helping here too ;)
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Storm Nordwind: OK bye Eliza
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye E/
    It's time for another workshop.
    Storm Nordwind: Stim's Ways of Knowing workshop is due in a minute or two I think
    Storm Nordwind: In the Kira Cafe
    Wol Euler: right, he just logged on.
    Storm Nordwind: Yes, and there are 4 people there already.
    Calvino Rabeni: I will go there also
    Storm Nordwind: Why don't we go together then? :)
    Wol Euler: let's do :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there a "group transport"?
    Although the balloon will take a small group, we elect to go to Ways of Knowing one by one.
    Wol Euler: goodnight to eveyone who's not going.
    Storm Nordwind: OK. Bye anyone who's not joining us :)
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Qt Core: 'night all
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