2009.11.19 19:00 - Lucid Dreaming

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Pema, Stevenaia, Calvino, Myna, Fox


    Pema Pera: heya, Paradise!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya pema how are you :)
    Pema Pera: I'm fine!
    Pema Pera: What a great fresh green look!
    Paradise Tennant: thanks you .. i love indian clothes ..the colours the textures the complexity of pattern :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
    Pema Pera: yes, they always look very comfortable too
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello para, pema
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: waits for pillows to appear
    Paradise Tennant: laggy tonight .. must be lots of peeps on the grid :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: forgot to look on my way in
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Pema Pera: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I thought you were the host Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: i am :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: so much for tags and clarity
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: we like a little chaos and freedom
    stevenaia Michinaga: a little play, nods
    Pema Pera: and finding tiny buttons -- you're such a good sport, Steve!
    Paradise Tennant: nods .. one of the laws of physics no ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: chaos?
    Paradise Tennant: tendency to chaos
    Pema Pera: I always like a challenge, but I had never dreamt that my chance would come so soon . . . .
    stevenaia Michinaga: chance?
    Pema Pera: (chaos as in "cultivator" and "PaB host" and other tags)
    Pema Pera: chance to challenge your no-button notion :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pema Pera: anyway, I very much admire your solution, as I wrote -- sorry, Calvino, tail of a long story
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders of opinions other than those presented represent buttons?
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Pema Pera: oh, buttons all over the place, I'm sure, Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: suppose if they they are necessary
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Pema Pera: perhaps life what be quite boring without buttons . . . or would it be paradise? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: button with no blood pressure
    Paradise Tennant: lol nope just press them all and see what works :)
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Paradise Tennant: had a nice chat with pila last night on lucid dreaming ..ended up with a very long reading list ..fascinating topic :)
    Pema Pera: yes, it is a great topic!
    Pema Pera: have you had lucid dreams?
    Pema Pera: or experimented with them?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, he is such a wealth of interesting information
    Paradise Tennant: one last weekend ..he truly is !
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Myna
    Pema Pera: hi Myna, so good to see you again!!
    Paradise Tennant: welcome myna :)
    Myna Maven: Hi! Haven't been on Second Life in months. Thought I'd drop in.
    Pema Pera: so glad you did!
    stevenaia Michinaga: we are still here :)
    Myna Maven: :) I'm glad.
    Pema Pera: Myna, meet Calvino, our new regular :-)
    Myna Maven: Hello Calvino.
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Myna -
    Pema Pera: have you met Paradise before?
    Myna Maven: And I've not met Paradise.
    Paradise Tennant: hiya myna ..my pleasure
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Myna Maven: Pema, everything is fine. People around me have had a lot going on.
    Myna Maven: That wasn't so fine. Some difficult times for them.
    Pema Pera: they must have been glad to have you around, I bet
    Myna Maven: Nothing like that. More glad to have my husband around. He's shouldered a good deal of responsibility.
    Myna Maven: Friends of his.
    Pema Pera: ah, okay.
    Pema Pera: but either way I'm sure it's affecting both of you
    Myna Maven: Well, it did. Profoundly affected us both.
    Myna Maven: But enough of that ! I think I intruded on a conversation on lucid dreaming?
    Paradise Tennant: :) do you have lucid dreams myna :)
    Myna Maven: I've had them but they're not something for which I strive. I have them rarely.
    Paradise Tennant: nos
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Paradise Tennant: you found them .....
    Myna Maven: I found them?... How do you mean?
    Paradise Tennant: well what was the experience like
    Myna Maven: Hmmm. Let me think.
    Myna Maven: I was simply cognizant that I was dreaming.
    Myna Maven: Usually when I've had them it's just been that simple awareness that I am indeed dreaming. I haven't tried really to manipulate what was going on in the dreams.
    Paradise Tennant: did it change the nature of the dream .. just that level of awareness
    Myna Maven: I suppose I'd have to say it depended on the nature of the dream, what was happening in it.
    Myna Maven: I suppose in a way I can't say because I'm not sure what the dream would have been like had I not be come lucid. :)
    Myna Maven: But it's been a few years since I've had them and I'm not sure what I might have said the morning after.
    Calvino Rabeni: I'd answer that question with "yes".
    Paradise Tennant: listens
    Calvino Rabeni: THere seem to be degrees of lucidity
    Calvino Rabeni: The most subtle one is just a sense of presence as dreamer.
    stevenaia Michinaga: a rather detailed Wiki page exists
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: But the way it affects my dreams is, they don't scare me,because I know they are dreams.
    Paradise Tennant: yes read it this morning
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Pema Pera: there is also http://www.lucidipedia.com/misc/index.php
    Paradise Tennant: the knowing takes away the fear
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Paradise Tennant: i wonder if we could bring that kind of lucidity to our "real life dream reality" .. if it would take away the fear :)
    Calvino Rabeni: pNot if it is premised on "escape"
    stevenaia Michinaga: fear as a lucid dream?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about certain kinds of fear.
    Paradise Tennant: more in the way bon and buddhist believe that it can be short cut to enlightenment you see real life for the dream it is
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, makes sense
    Paradise Tennant: so if you perceive real life as a dream . there is no fear anymore either
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: you wouldn't really like to be free of fear, though?
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm
    Paradise Tennant: not sure it really adds a lot to the mix .. ..
    Paradise Tennant: what do you think?
    Myna Maven: I think fear can be a natural, appropriate response that is helpful at times.
    Calvino Rabeni: People go to horror films. They seem to like it.
    Pema Pera: perhaps more like a scary movie, your heart beats, your palms may sweat, but you are not paralyzed with fear, knowing it's not ultimately true
    Pema Pera: hehe, same thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: thinking when was the last time I feared
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, attitude of "naturalness" is good - as discussed in WOK today.
    Paradise Tennant: maybe not even being rid of fear but it puts you in a place of perspective where you see a different view of reality
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pema Pera: yes
    Fox Monacular: hello everyone
    stevenaia Michinaga: probably when I pondered, ...is that police car behind me with his flashing lights on after me?
    Pema Pera: Hi Fox, we're talking about lucid dreaming, your cup of tea!
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Myna Maven: Where's Fox?
    Myna Maven: Oh, there's Fox. Hello.
    Fox Monacular: hello:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello fox
    Pema Pera: Fox, meet Myna, one of our old timer guardians!
    Fox Monacular: nice to meet you, Myna!
    Paradise Tennant: hiya fox gtsy
    Myna Maven: Nice to meet you, Fox.
    Paradise Tennant: yes been reading up on it fox .. absolutely fascinating
    Fox Monacular: lucid dreaming?
    Myna Maven: (Haha. One of my son's teeth just came out. He was frightened because it was bleeding. Now he is elated.) Speaking of fear...
    Pema Pera: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: now under the pillow for loot ?
    Pema Pera: lucid bleeding?
    Myna Maven: !!!!
    stevenaia Michinaga: what''s the going rate for a tooth?
    Myna Maven: Into a little box for loot.
    Pema Pera: sadly, in my native Holland we had no tooth fairies . . . . .
    Myna Maven: This one has a really sharp end. No wonder it hurt!
    Paradise Tennant: sigh poor pema
    Fox Monacular: in russia we have a tooth mouse:)
    Myna Maven: He long since knows who the tooth fairies really are. And it makes no difference. It's still fun to put the tooth in the box and wake up to the gift of money in exchange for it.
    Paradise Tennant: :))))))))
    Pema Pera: mouse??
    Fox Monacular: yep... don't ask me why... it made sense to me as a child
    Myna Maven: Mouse?! How fun.
    Fox Monacular: i mean mouse is more plausible than a fairy!
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: rodents, teeth, makes sense
    stevenaia Michinaga: uh huh
    Fox Monacular: it does, yes
    Pema Pera: no elephant?
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Fox Monacular: and the mouse would leave 'something' in exchange, like a surprise
    Fox Monacular: not money
    Myna Maven: Like what kind of surprises?
    Paradise Tennant: ;p;
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm not sure I like the sound of mouse leavings
    Fox Monacular: i don't know... like upi put it in an envelope, and in the morning there's a drawing and 'thanks
    Myna Maven: A drawing. My son would love that.
    Fox Monacular: it must be different now that we also have a gift of capitalism:))
    Paradise Tennant: artistic mice :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Fox Monacular: money reinforcement wasn't usually used at least in soveit union, cause nobody had it:)
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Paradise Tennant: very different so much change so fast
    Paradise Tennant: always loved carlin's line who would have thought communism would fail because there is no money in it :)
    Paradise Tennant: my apologies completely missed the bell notice
    Fox Monacular: well, in kind of did... and now there's lots of money!
    Calvino Rabeni: back to dreams,
    Calvino Rabeni: Lucidity is a bit like being awake in the dream state
    Calvino Rabeni: but the other direction is interesting - dreaming while awake.
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Fox Monacular: what do you mean?
    Paradise Tennant: you can become truly aware of it for what it is
    Calvino Rabeni: A classic book is - Mary Watkins, Waking Dreams
    Fox Monacular: daydreams? fantasies? free-associations?
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Dreams-.../dp/0882143247
    Fox Monacular: thanks
    Paradise Tennant: adds it to here reading list
    Fox Monacular: Freud talked about it too a lot
    Calvino Rabeni: It is old book, byt still very readable
    Fox Monacular: 'phantasies' as dreaming mechanisms in wake
    Fox Monacular: or art and literature
    Calvino Rabeni: similar
    Fox Monacular: as stemming from the same dreaming self
    Calvino Rabeni: but the dreaming mind makes it up on the spot
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Fox Monacular: yes, on the spot, but within many real life confounds... such as mood, preoccupations and so on
    Calvino Rabeni: it appears the dreaming mind is active during the day also
    stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to turn on, night all
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but outside awareness, whatever that is.
    Myna Maven: Night Seven.
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve .. sweet dreams
    Myna Maven: I mean Stevenaia
    Pema Pera: Nite Steve!
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: well a topic I am going to explore .. there are links to creativity .. heightened awareness sounds .. intriguing
    Paradise Tennant: perhaps we could do a short meditation to wind down ... anyone interested ?
    Pema Pera: I'm game!
    Paradise Tennant: :) say five minutes
    Paradise Tennant: starting with the bell :)
    Myna Maven: Good.
    Paradise Tennant: always find I sleep better .. :)
    Paradise Tennant: gong
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: thank you all :)
    Pema Pera: thank you too, Paradise!
    Calvino Rabeni: I too must go - thanks all.
    Paradise Tennant: I am going to say adieu .. I have a very early morning .. be well
    Myna Maven: Five minutes? Thanks for being here.
    Myna Maven: I hope to be back soon again.
    Pema Pera: and I hope we'll see you again before toooo long, Myna :-)
    Myna Maven: :)
    Paradise Tennant: i hope to see you all again soon
    Pema Pera: nite everybody
    Calvino Rabeni: good night all!
    Paradise Tennant: good nite all
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    Originally written on 05:09, 21 Nov 2009
    What a delightful session, and I have to wave to Myna.. someone I didn't get to know very well but whose writing I really enjoyed. :)

    Posted 12:29, 9 Apr 2010
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