2009.11.20 13:00 - flu shot, or not ?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi fox
    Fox Monacular: Hey Yakuzza
    Fox Monacular: how are you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fine, thx, a bit tired
    Fox Monacular: me too... i just got the flu shot...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i won´t do that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t trust the h1n1 hype
    Fox Monacular: i didn't want to either... but I work in a hospital
    Fox Monacular: no, me neither.. I don't trust it... but being an asthmatic I'm in
    Fox Monacular: a risk group
    Fox Monacular: too much pressure from all the doctors in the family
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, and it´s neccessary in a hospital ?
    Fox Monacular: well, we work in the research wing... so it's not too bad... but we still use the same cafeteria and elevators as all the flu sick people...
    Fox Monacular: anyway, I resisted as much as I could... and then most people I trust had the vaccine
    Fox Monacular: and to top things off, any flu is risky for me:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i am curious how many ppl already have antibodies without having an swineflu diagnosis
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a friend just told me that he is also going to get the shot
    Fox Monacular: yes, I know... I'm sure for most it's just a flu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because there might be a second form of the virus soon
    Fox Monacular: oh... and then the superbugs in hospitals because we use too much antibacterial stuff
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, thats why my farther had a antibiotics resistant virus last time he had to stay in the hospital :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and was in quarantene for 4 weeks
    Fox Monacular: yes... and then there are antibiotics we're exposed to through meat and milk... fun stuff
    Fox Monacular: oh boy
    Fox Monacular: that's really rough
    Fox Monacular: hope he's ok
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, it was just an infection of his leg
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it didn´t heal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: now its fine
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it was 3 years ago, but it was pretty scary since we had to take ,,vorsichtsmaßnamen"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i hmm, very empty today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Fox Monacular: hi Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: greetings
    Fox Monacular: sorry Yakuza and Calvino, I have to leave already:) unexpected RL visit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care fox
    Fox Monacular: see you next time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya qt
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi wol
    Wol Euler: hello yaku, calvino, qt
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Wol Euler: calvino, I hope you've slept some since we last met :)
    Calvino Rabeni: yes thanks
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Are there any topics "in the air" ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we were only talking about the h2n1 immunization before
    Yakuzza Lethecus: anyone got the shot yet ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't feel concerned
    Wol Euler: nope, but I did get a regular flu shot
    Qt Core: no, never got a flu shot
    Yakuzza Lethecus: me neither
    Qt Core: i just heard the international health organization saying that h1n1 had a mutation in Norway
    Wol Euler: it's spread to cats now
    Qt Core: the news dodn't tell if good or bad
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya zon
    Qt Core: i heard that, but do it attacked cats now or we just noticed it now
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Qt Core: hi zon
    Calvino Rabeni: I have not been taking precautions, have you?
    Wol Euler: only the easy and sensible ones: wash hands and face frequently, lots of vitamin C and D, avoid people who cough
    Qt Core: the usual, like don't go around kissing sneezing people
    Wol Euler: hello zen
    Zen Arado: Hello all :)
    Zon Quar: zen
    Zen Arado: anyone interested if I tell a Zen story?
    Wol Euler: please do
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Qt Core: sure
    Zen Arado: Is That So? The Zen master Hakuin was praised by his neighbors as one living a pure life. A beautiful Japanese girl whose parents owned a food store lived near him. Suddenly, without any warning, her parents discovered she was with child. This made her parents very angry. She would not confess who the man was, but after much harassment at last named Hakuin. In great anger the parents went to the master. "Is that so?" was all he would say.
    Zen Arado: When the child was born, the parents brought it to the Hakuin, who now was viewed as a pariah by the whole village. They demanded that he take care of the child since it was his responsibility. “Is that so?” Hakuin said calmly as he accepted the child. A year later the girl-mother could stand it no longer. She told her parents the truth – that the real father of the child was a young man who worked in the fishmarket.
    Zen Arado: The mother and father of the girl at once went to Hakuin to ask his forgiveness, to apologize at length, and to get the child back again. Hakuin was willing. In yielding the child, all he said was: "Is that so?"
    Zen Arado: Comments?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hakuin didn't like drama?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zon Quar: accept what is happening
    Zen Arado: do you like his attitude?
    Zen Arado: is it realistic?
    Zon Quar: not really..thoug it was cool
    Zen Arado: or too passive?
    Wol Euler: I wonder what happened to the child, whether it would hve been better off with him.
    Zon Quar: i would have said no...it is not so
    Qt Core: every time he offered to option to [re]consider the choice the parents were making
    Zen Arado: interesting that Hahuin didn't worry about his reputation either
    Calvino Rabeni: I think we act like Hakuin a lot, but not for zen reasons
    Zon Quar: nods
    Qt Core: even in the second scene, i doubt
    Zen Arado: I doubt any of us would act like that ?
    Wol Euler: hello ari
    Zon Quar: needs to hava a storng sense of no self to act like that
    Arisia Vita: hi all...
    Zen Arado: Hi Ari
    Zen Arado: yes Zon
    Zon Quar: not taking things personally
    Zon Quar: at all
    Zen Arado: but I wonder about the passivity
    Arisia Vita: Hi Arch
    Zen Arado: Hi Arch
    Zon Quar: he was a mirror
    Wol Euler: I'm inclined to doubt whether that degree of detachment is a good way to raise a child.
    Zen Arado: but what was he detached from?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch
    Zon Quar: no..its just an example of zen attitude
    Wol Euler: the child itself, to start with.
    Zen Arado: probably took good care of child
    Wol Euler: hello arch
    Qt Core: hi arch
    Zon Quar: from his self
    Zon Quar: not a guideline in everydaysituations
    Wol Euler: indeed :)
    Zon Quar: but the attitude
    Zen Arado: so we shouldn't behave like that?
    Zen Arado: if something similar happened?
    Zon Quar: it depends where we were in this existensial play
    Zen Arado: but isn't he a kind of example?
    Zon Quar: like jesus said turn ur other cheek
    Zon Quar: i wont necessery do so
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a parable, not a prescription
    Zon Quar: in all situations
    Zen Arado: ok
    Wol Euler: it's a kind of extended koan, I would say. It's intended to make one think, rather than to be taken seriously as the true relation of an incident involving six people
    Archmage Atlantis: Jumping right into a discussion I know nothing about, all children are unique entites, with their own will and destiny
    Zen Arado: don't have to take it literally I suppose
    Wol Euler: IMHO the attitude is generally admirable, yes, and we should generally try to emulate it, yes.
    Archmage Atlantis: It is literal, as we are all our own
    Zen Arado: but shouldn't we aim for that attitude Wol?
    Zon Quar: attitude is an aim..yes
    Zen Arado: ok you answered my question Wol
    Wol Euler: :)
    Zen Arado: but he sems so passive is my worry !
    Wol Euler nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Monks sacrifice
    Wol Euler: well, let's look at that. What is bad about being passive in this example?
    Zon Quar: he accpeted the lie
    Zen Arado: it seems he would accept any kind of s*** from anyone
    Calvino Rabeni: well he questioned it
    Zon Quar: althaough he knew the truth
    Archmage Atlantis: I have never before done this, without the background, I still say he or she or it choices e's own path........it is not mine to judge
    Zon Quar: h eknew it was not so
    Wol Euler: perhaps by doing so he shielded thte girl?
    Zon Quar: who lied
    Wol Euler: who was in a hell of a bad situation, and grasped at a way out of it
    Zon Quar: so he approved her lie
    Wol Euler: one can infer that his doing so brought a measure of peace to the house, though
    Wol Euler: gave her time and space to consider, gave her parents a chance to calm down
    Zen Arado: good point
    Zon Quar: is peace more important than truth ?
    Wol Euler: maybe it is, yes.
    Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV :)
    Zen Arado: good question
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Zen Arado: Hi Gen
    Wol Euler: oh, where'd she go?
    Archmage Atlantis: Is that so?
    Zon Quar: dreaming happy dreams than face reality
    Wol Euler: staying alive in the relative securityt of her family rather than being murdered for besmirching their honour, or being cast out to starve
    Zen Arado: in this case I think peace was more important than truth
    Archmage Atlantis: Is that so?
    Zon Quar: yes..but under otehr conditions..perhaps not
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: yes
    Wol Euler: yes, of course :)
    Wol Euler: consider this: how could Hakuin have proven the accusation false?
    Zon Quar: so we should not always speak teh truth ?
    Qt Core: without a dna test, that is ;-)
    Zen Arado: bowing to the inevitable then?
    Wol Euler: would his attempting to do so have achieved anything but stirring up tempers even further?
    Archmage Atlantis: We should always speak of our understanding yes
    Zen Arado: good point Wol
    Archmage Atlantis: To claim truth?
    Archmage Atlantis: Is that so?
    Wol Euler: he did what was socially right and proper in this situation, IMHO, at the expense of enduring a falsehood.
    Wol Euler: and yes, Arch, IMHO it is.
    Zen Arado: truth has to be abandoned in certain circumstance IMHO
    Zon Quar: or not to be expressed..
    Archmage Atlantis: What is the truth of an elephant to a group of blind men?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, he did not deny the accusation
    Zen Arado: good point
    Zon Quar: he didint express the truth he knew
    Wol Euler: perhaps the lesson of the koan is that it is better to endure a falsehood than struggle against it, if by doing so you help your fellows.
    Zen Arado: not sure he did know ?
    Zon Quar: lol
    Zen Arado: except he knew it wasn't his child
    Wol Euler grins and whispers "but perhaps it could have been"
    Zon Quar: yes wol
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zon Quar: i think all buddhas have to do that
    Zon Quar: not to tell all
    Zen Arado: what about the loss of reputation?
    Zon Quar: tp help us
    Archmage Atlantis: To wish for something to be, is to desire
    Wol Euler: it's a boddhisatva attitude, to sit in the dirt and help
    Zen Arado: reputation so important for most of us
    Zon Quar: its ego
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zon Quar: who cares of reputation
    Zen Arado: easy to say though
    Zen Arado: IMO
    Zon Quar: lol
    Zon Quar: thats why i would have said...no that is a damn lie..i never has a sexual relationship with that woman
    Wol Euler: and I didn'T inhale
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I did inhale, I did have sex with a woman once, it was not my path......all have their own path
    Calvino Rabeni: I like that the monk "took on" the family karma
    Wol Euler: I'm afraid my path leads me away :)
    Zen Arado: me too
    Wol Euler: this was a great discussion, thank you for introducing it, Zen.
    Wol Euler: goodnigh all
    Zen Arado: thanks for iintresting comments
    Zon Quar: me 2 night all
    Calvino Rabeni: Tes Zen the story really worked
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Calvino Rabeni: Thx
    Zen Arado: bye
    Wol Euler: goodnight, sleep well
    Qt Core: nignt zen, yak
    Wol Euler: be honest, but not too much so
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: The ultimate fear
    Archmage Atlantis: Too much honesty
    Qt Core: try answer people casually asking how are you ... bad, thanks, and you ? ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Could be the end of the world as we know it
    Archmage Atlantis: They chose not to see you, if they answer only themselves
    Archmage Atlantis: And you chose to hide
    Archmage Atlantis: There are choices on both sides
    Archmage Atlantis: And this world is ending
    Archmage Atlantis: Obviously only in my view
    Archmage Atlantis: As I walk only my own path
    Archmage Atlantis: I did find Lady Gaga sort of a hoot when I first saw on the tv last night
    Calvino Rabeni: Ihav no tv, what is that Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Television, but satillite, so I can record and playback as I choose
    Qt Core: i have one... but the remote is almost never in my hands ;-) so i almost don't have it
    Archmage Atlantis: A condnundrum, ....the remote
    Archmage Atlantis: I learned how to mange mine
    Archmage Atlantis: Manage
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night
    Archmage Atlantis: Or a dog with mange, perhaps
    Qt Core: 'night yak
    Calvino Rabeni: I must go meet a friend. So long all.
    Archmage Atlantis: Night Yakuzza, thank you for this
    Qt Core: i have to go, bye arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Good evening Cak
    Archmage Atlantis: Cal
    Archmage Atlantis: Old men ramble
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