2009.11.23 19:00 - Gratitude and non-violence

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fox Monacular. The comments are by Fox Monacular.

    Fox Monacular: hello Eden
    Eden Haiku: Hi Fox, how are you ;-)
    Fox Monacular: good, thanks, how are you?
    Eden Haiku: Good.The weather is so nice these days isn'it? It is like a grace!
    Fox Monacular: seriously, we go out more now
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Eden Haiku: I walked for more than an hour by the river this morning, it was almost warm. Incredible, in November!
    Fox Monacular: i know, it's great
    Fox Monacular: still didn't have to put baby in a huge winter suit
    Fox Monacular: so she can still walk around
    Eden Haiku: Yes ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Eden, Fox.
    Natia Algoma: hey everyone
    Natia Algoma: how are you?
    Eden Haiku: Good evening.
    Fox Monacular: hello Calvino and Natia
    Fox Monacular: hello Gavin
    Fox Monacular: please join us
    Gavin Moorsider: hello Fox
    Natia Algoma: thanks
    Natia Algoma: may I ask what we're joining you in?
    Fox Monacular: have you been here before?
    Natia Algoma: nope
    Fox Monacular: here's a description of our group
    Fox Monacular: we record our chat conversations and post them on the wiki, is it ok with you?
    Natia Algoma: sure
    Gavin Moorsider: certainly and i'm reading throught the note card, thank you
    Fox Monacular: please join us:)
    Eden Haiku: We are a circle of friends Natia. You are welcome, if you want to sit with us and join the conversation.
    Natia Algoma: am I required to sit?
    Natia Algoma: brb - I need a drink
    Fox Monacular: sorry, I had to step away, baby situation
    Fox Monacular: well, it's nice if we all sit in circle, but you can stand if you wish
    Natia Algoma: you're a cultivator? What does that mean?
    Fox Monacular: it's just one of the ways we think of the practice as a group
    Fox Monacular: play as being
    Natia Algoma: can you explain that?
    Fox Monacular: you can read more about the practice here
    Fox Monacular: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Eden Haiku: This is a very interesting question Natia... A tough one...;-)
    Natia Algoma: I'm actually already there, Fox
    Fox Monacular: basically every 15 min we try to drop the appearances
    Fox Monacular: to see what we really are
    Natia Algoma: and it all looks very screwy
    Natia Algoma: pardon me if I repeat you - but every 15 minutes you drop the appearances?
    Natia Algoma: all those words are english, but put together, they make no sense
    Fox Monacular: well, you take 9 sec out ouf your time
    Fox Monacular: let's try now
    Fox Monacular: drop the appearances
    Fox Monacular: are you familiar with any meditation practice, Natia?
    Natia Algoma: it depends precisely how one defines meditation - it's a bit of a loaded word
    Fox Monacular: I realize that all this lingo may seem confusing in the beginning
    Natia Algoma: do I subscribe to the idea of taking a moment to kind of relax and focus, then yes, I am familiar with meditation
    Fox Monacular: well, meditation as an eastern practice of cultivating awareness of the mind
    Fox Monacular: yes, something like that
    Natia Algoma: if you think of meditation as a way of getting to a higher plane or something full of woo like that - then no - I steer well clear
    Fox Monacular: I haven't experienced anything like that either
    Fox Monacular: in this group we try to explore our everyday lives, our reality by bringing this short meditative practice into our days
    Fox Monacular: in between of whatever we might be doing, just dropping everything for 9 sec
    Fox Monacular: or for 90 sec if we're in the conversation here
    Natia Algoma: odd
    Fox Monacular: would you like to give it a try?
    Fox Monacular: we are a group of people with all sorts of different backgrounds, religious, scientific, linguistic, conversations are often very interesting here, you're welcome to join whenever you like
    Natia Algoma: well, I am here
    Fox Monacular: on the wiki page you can browse through old chats too to have an idea of what kinds of conversations happen here
    Eden Haiku: Fox is doing a real good job trying to explain what Play as being is Natia. But nothing is better than expriencing it.
    Fox Monacular: is there anything in particular you'd like to talk about tonight?
    Fox Monacular: yes:) thank you Eden
    Eden Haiku: We wree doing small talk when you got here, talking about the weather. Fox and I happen to live in the same city...
    Eden Haiku: And we have been having a wonderful weather. ;-)
    Fox Monacular: yes, a real treat, unexpected too:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you met in RL there?
    Fox Monacular: not yet, but I'm looking forward!
    Eden Haiku: So maybe we can focus on gratitude?
    Eden Haiku: On the next 90 secs I mean?
    Fox Monacular: gratitude is a good topic
    Fox Monacular: Hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Fox & company!
    Eden Haiku: Welcome Eos.
    Fox Monacular: we were about to choose a topic for tonight, Eden proposed gratitude
    Eden Haiku: Nice t-shirt Eos!
    Eos Amaterasu: Excellent!
    Eos Amaterasu: William Blake: "gratitude is heaven itself"
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Eos, is there a name for that zen brush circle?
    Eos Amaterasu: There probably is, but I don't know what it is
    Fox Monacular: enso, right?
    Eos Amaterasu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensō
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes
    Fox Monacular: thanks for the link, Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Re gratitude, can we frame an approach to the 90 secs around gratitude?
    Calvino Rabeni: http://images.google.com/images?q=enso+curcle
    Eden Haiku: Yes, thanks!
    Calvino Rabeni: SOrry spelled circle wrong - change it, you will see many nice ensos
    Eden Haiku: Maybe if we focus on one small thing we are greatful for today?
    Fox Monacular: any interesting experiences?
    Eden Haiku: I feel grateful for the sensation of the sun still on my face tonite after my long morning walk.
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: I didn't get to experience anything this time - had to fix cartoons that froze
    Eos Amaterasu: No need to go anywhere else, or change anything to anything
    Fox Monacular: although I am grateful got youtube!
    Eos Amaterasu: cartoons, however :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Cartoons for you or the little one?
    Fox Monacular: my daughter can watch all russian cartoons I watched when I was small
    Fox Monacular: no no, not me, for her:)
    Eden Haiku: You get the russian cartoons on Youtube?
    Fox Monacular: lots!
    Eden Haiku: Amazing!
    Eos Amaterasu: What a world!
    Fox Monacular: yes, it's pretty convenient, and many are with english subs, so my husband can watch too:)
    Fox Monacular: so I can be grateful to whoever posted them online
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: buddhists talk about being grateful to all sentient beings, who have been our mothers
    Fox Monacular: yes, it's a good imperative!
    Eos Amaterasu: to be a mother?
    Eden Haiku: This song by Sinead O'Connor « This is to mother you...» so moving...
    Eos Amaterasu loves Sinead O'Connor
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: today at work I was doing some brainless data manipulations and was listening to a Berkeley lecture on Bhagavat Gita and ethics of inaction in action
    Fox Monacular: http://academicearth.org/lectures/gi...life-purpose-1
    Eden Haiku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9P9kf4QZ2E
    Fox Monacular: thanks, Eden! I'll have to listen to it later - it clashes with cartoon music!
    Eden Haiku: I'm also listening to your link...
    Fox Monacular: well, it's over 1 hour long:)
    Fox Monacular: and there's 2 parts
    Calvino Rabeni: Eden, I am glad you brought up the topic of gratitude. I was reviewing some of Pema's essays on thye web site and thinking about it.
    Fox Monacular: but I thought it will be intereseting to people here
    Larisa Polikarpov: Gavin - get your ass up and come now!
    Fox Monacular: Hello Larisa
    Larisa Polikarpov: I did not give you permission to be here
    Gavin Moorsider: yes Ms
    Eden Haiku: So I will listen to thatn later. But I like the fact that nonb-violent people do not
    Eden Haiku: When the lecturer in this video you linked us to Fox, when he says that non-violet people do not stay away from conflict all the time.
    Eden Haiku: *non-violent
    Fox Monacular: yes, I thought it was very interesting
    Eos Amaterasu: not avoidance
    Fox Monacular: just like in Bhagavat Gita
    Eden Haiku: Yes, not avoidance.
    Fox Monacular: Arjuna still has to go into battle
    Eden Haiku: Do thy bidding...
    Calvino Rabeni: I like in the story,how deeply felt was Arjuna's dilemma proposed to krishna
    Eos Amaterasu: How would you state that, Calvino?
    Fox Monacular: but his actions are not carried out because of his personal enmity, but rather non attached to result, because it's his dharma
    Calvino Rabeni: He presented great anguish openly that he could be called to slay members of his clan.
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, a harrowing story....
    Calvino Rabeni: He was inocent about it
    Eos Amaterasu: That story contains one of the heaviest lines in all of literature:
    Fox Monacular: right, non doing in doing
    Fox Monacular: which line, Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: "when one prefers one's own children to those of another, then war is not far away"
    Fox Monacular: yes
    Fox Monacular: tough one
    Calvino Rabeni: And they took a long time to build it up
    Eden Haiku: It is like Christb saying; I did not come to bring peace amongst you but the sword.
    Calvino Rabeni: It was not taken lightly
    Eos Amaterasu: so being not afraid to meet the edge of something
    Eden Haiku: Power of Kali.
    Eos Amaterasu: even something like the fearsome reality of karma
    Calvino Rabeni: Fierceness, discriminating will
    Eden Haiku: Shiva dancing destruction of the world.
    Eos Amaterasu: but at the same time, without aggression
    Calvino Rabeni: Another line in the BG is something like - "A little of this dharma goes a long way"
    Eden Haiku: What an art...
    Eos Amaterasu: Camus should meet Arjuna
    Calvino Rabeni: Wasn't there a quote from Stim about wrath?
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: satyagraha : truth force
    Eos Amaterasu: much better word than non-violence
    Eden Haiku: I never met Stim, but he is very often mentionned here...Sometimes in typos even!
    Eos Amaterasu: it's positive: meet the situation
    Fox Monacular: yes, I never know how to spell that
    Eos Amaterasu: very Stimulating?
    Fox Monacular: no, I mean satyagraha
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I think we could try that in the next 90 secs :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: satyagraha - how would you say that?
    Eden Haiku: Gandhi was a great soul. Yet, he prevented his sons from studying...
    Calvino Rabeni: Are there emotions or energies you wouldn't want to explore in this group?
    Eos Amaterasu: (a trick question :-)
    Fox Monacular: I'm not sure:)
    Calvino Rabeni: SOmething to look at.
    Eos Amaterasu: that's another great one for the 90 secs!
    Eden Haiku: I like satyagraha as a topic.
    Calvino Rabeni: Depends on HOW it is done, i suppose
    Calvino Rabeni: Please describe it - so I will have a handle on it.
    Eos Amaterasu: how to approach something without destroying it?
    Eos Amaterasu: how to meet something without anger
    Eden Haiku: truth in action. Ever changing.
    Calvino Rabeni: THings happen very rapidly when one is out in public
    Calvino Rabeni: surrounded by many people
    Eos Amaterasu: More willingness to more energetically be there, in the space of perceptions, in just open space
    Eos Amaterasu: can you say more, Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: I was noticing the way I would meet people through gaze
    Calvino Rabeni: In a public place. In a glance. Almost no time for thinking thoughts.
    Eos Amaterasu: touch and go?
    Calvino Rabeni: And yet.. There wass a quality of satyagraha in the conection
    Calvino Rabeni: in a way that surprised me
    Calvino Rabeni: which was, I felt that to gaze but not be present, was to destroy something that needed to be
    Calvino Rabeni: so in otherwards, not-doing in the wayh I am usted to it, would nave been doing
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, passivity
    Calvino Rabeni: Does this make sense?
    Eos Amaterasu: so satyagraha was to gaze and to be present?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: It reversed my usual definition of what is doing.
    Eos Amaterasu: I think there is an energy and a force required to be present
    Eos Amaterasu: and which also seems to come from the presence
    Calvino Rabeni: it feels that way surely
    Fox Monacular: yes, I agree
    Calvino Rabeni: but a kind of energby passes between people
    Calvino Rabeni: in a case like that.
    Eden Haiku: Ah, I remember a gesture by Peter Brrok, onece in a lecture he was giving. His hand pointing. He was destroying something that needed to be destroyed like with a laser...
    Fox Monacular: interesting, gaze, especially in public space, is very culture dependent too in terms of acceptable interplay of energies
    Eden Haiku: *Peter Brook
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but there is a very fast micro-version that happens before culture sets in
    Eos Amaterasu: (Peter Brook did a play, The Mahabharata, about Arjuna/Krishna)
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems more fundamentally human, maybe hardwired
    Calvino Rabeni: But you have to perhaps withdraw after that instant
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I know. But he was then talking about a South African play.
    Fox Monacular: tsorry everyone, I have to go.... pumplin time
    Eos Amaterasu: space is part of the ecology of us being together....
    Calvino Rabeni: By then, FOx
    Eden Haiku: Bye bye Fox. Good nite! I will be leaving also...
    Eos Amaterasu: bye fox
    Fox Monacular: thanks for the great discussion, i wish i could stay longer
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, Eden. I think of the garden when I hear your name.
    Eden Haiku: Bye Eos, Calvino.
    Eos Amaterasu: Thank you... have to go as well, good night, all
    Fox Monacular: bye everyone
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Gratitude!
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